Trollhunters

“Well, it’s nice to know that the Trolls made it this far south,’ Ulath said. ‘I’d hate to have to go looking for them.’
‘Their Gods were guiding them, Ulath,’ Tynian pointed out.
‘You’ve never talked with the Troll-Gods, I see,’ Ulath laughed. ‘Their sense of direction is a little vague – probably because their compass only has two directions on it.’
‘Oh?’
‘North and not-north. It makes finding places a little difficult.”
—David Eddings, The Hidden City

Troll.  It’s a word that used in fairy tales to describe a disgustingly ugly creature that generally lived under a bridge and was pretty much always bad.

It’s come to mean something akin to that but in a virtual sense on the internet, to describe “a person whose sole purpose in life is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues.” The troll generally engages in conversation entirely to provoke.  He doesn’t care if he’s right or wrong, and often doesn’t even believe what he’s saying.  His only purpose is to get everyone riled up.

In some cases, trolls use multiple fake identities and will engage in arguments with their alter-egos just to get an argument started. Then they sit back and watch the show.  It’s a form of entertainment.  They are not seriously engaging in conversation or having any exchange of ideas. They are just fiddling around poking people to get a reaction.

And that is what a troll is.

It is not a pejorative used to describe anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

five

There are a lot of screen shots like this.  Nicole flips out the word often and regularly.  Here she insists that there are “six of them.”  But that number really changes to accommodate the set of “anyone who disagrees with Nicole and Joe Naugler and doesn’t kiss their joint asses.”

She has extended the borders of the set to include me.  I’m flattered.

call trolls
click image to link

“The real story” that she is referring to is that the evil state came and took her children and that CPS is evil and bad and takes children away to sell them or something.  Don’t be like CPS.

But of course, we trolls ignored the “real story” and focused on, you know, a few bad checks from the 90s (those weren’t just bad checks, BTW, those were arrests for passing bad checks) and you know, an eviction or two (what does it matter that Joe and Nicole have been basically unreliable their entire adult lives).  We need to focus instead on the “real story”—the evil state.

And to lead off, she presented a whole little piece about trolling from some podcast that Joe likes.  Their definition is like Nicole’s.  “Trolling,” for them, is anyone who disagrees with them.  And that’s probably most of the population of the whole planet.  I spent a little while one day listening to some of that podcast and then went and cleaned my ears out with bleach.  It’s a kind of looney Art-Bell-wannabe sort of thing.  Here’s a sample from their Facebook page.

Ground zero
click image to link

In order to show what a terrible “troll” I am, Nicole included a screen shot of a comment I made a while ago, and which I addressed at length in a separate post.  Please go read them both if you haven’t already.  Then come back here.

That’s not trolling, folks.  This blog is not trolling.  I am not talking about this stuff because I just want to rile everyone up and provoke a lot of controversy.  I am talking about it because Nicole and Joe regularly and frequently mislead people about who they are and what they are doing and while doing so, seek donations to help finance their “lifestyle.”

In addition, the whole subject of Joe and Nicole Naugler and their views on things is a kind of interesting place from which to have reasonable discussion about issues involving, yes, free speech, and sustainability, and government (not necessarily politics – they aren’t the same thing), and education, and even religion. They, by their own desire, made themselves into a public spectacle. The fact that this has worked out about as well as the Oregon snack-forgetters’ little mission is not my fault.

Remember, reasonable conversation about stuff—even controversial stuff—is not trolling. Disagreeing with somebody’s public statements is not trolling. Presenting facts (who owns the Naugler land?), asking questions (what do they do with the shit?) isn’t trolling. Discussing the pros and cons of so-called unschooling is not trolling.

But since Nicole has brought up the subject of trolling, I’m going to accommodate her and talk about, not me and my supposed “trolling,” but her.  But that’s another page for another day.

30 thoughts on “Trollhunters”

  1. Now it’s getting real. I’m happy you are calling them out on the difference between “trolling” and dissenting opinion.

    I cannot wait to see what’s next.

  2. Besides, the long term pattern of behavior with these two that resulted in the “viral” news story they wanted everyone to hear, is completely relevant, and worth discussing. The dysfunction the adults display needs to be continuously front and center, so when (not if) authorities end up involved again, the behavior is well documented, and the children won’t (hopefully) end up with the shit end of the deal.

    Those children deserve better, and I will be the eternal optimist that ma will eventually get her head back where it belongs; Joe is past the point of redeeming.

  3. True “Trolls” are a higher caste of sentient being than given credit for.

    Three Billy Goats Gruff aside, trolls are willing to at least work . . . a little.

    Trolls don’t crowd their children into their “tiny under bridge homes”.

    Trolls spend most of their time hunting gnomes. They are too busy hunting gnomes to spend all day on the internet liking shit on facebook, reposting stupid memes that contradict themselves day by day, and pretending to be something they aren’t.

    Trolls might be hard to look at, they might make the occasional meal of an unwary traveler . . . but they are by and large genuine and they accept their faults and don’t pretend that everything is everybody else’s fault.

    Trolls are sane and mature enough to own up to their shortcomings and they deal with life and don’t whine and pine for excuses.

    I’d rather deal with a real life troll than an excuse generating, lazy ass, disingenuous internet junkie any day.

  4. ” But of course, we trolls ignored the “real story” and focused on, you know, a few bad checks from the 90s (those weren’t just bad checks, BTW, those were arrests for passing bad checks) and you know, an eviction or two (what does it matter that Joe and Nicole have been basically unreliable their entire adult lives). We need to focus instead on the “real story”—the evil state.”

    Many people have bounced a cheque or two in their lifetime but what must one do to actually get arrested? Just wondering.

    Looking forward to reading about their “trolling” activities.

  5. Old school internet trolls lament the invasion of the Internet by “modern trolls” (aka children, trollettes, morons) who are neither clever or original, but instead roam the Internet like rabid animals mocking, harassing, terrorizing and humiliating anyone who speaks against any member of their gang. With no rhetorical skill or witty repartee (think Oscar Wilde, if you are a trollette, google him) they are amateur and malicious and direct personal attacks, often through someone’s inbox, without the ability to truly engage in a heated debate on any subject. They rely instead on the bully techniques of the ignorant and uninformed, such as doxxing, to declare themselves winners (of what, is the million dollar question).

    Other than in a very few marginal butt hurt sources does anyone define a troll as simply someone who disagrees with them. There are other words to describe such a situation. An attempt to brush dissenters with the “troll brush” is, quite frankly, lazy and deceptive.

  6. The literary appearance of a troll (9th Century A.D.),

    “…the first written example trolls in Scandinavian literature when Bragi the poet encounters a troll woman in the forest and she describes herself to him: Trolls call me moon of the dwelling-Rungnir, giant’s wealth-sucker, storm-sun’s bale, seeress’s friendly companion, guardian of corpse-fjord, swallower of heaven wheel, what is a troll other than that?”

    Either people who pay attention to the Naugler’s and don’t agree with them are very powerful (see description above) or they aren’t. Given all the time and attention she has given to people who disagree with her choices and their effects on her children, they are very important to her indeed. Why? Is it because she won’t brook dissent or is it because dissent is a form of fundraising?

    I agree with Please, “I’d rather deal with a real life troll than an excuse generating, lazy ass, disingenuous internet junkie any day.”

    Real-life trolls have dignity. I don’t see anything dignified about either Joe or Nicole because after all, dignity and self-respect go hand-in-hand. They demand respect but they don’t go about trying to earn it. Well, not for any length of time that might lead to results that could qualify as successful.

    By the way, Nicole, you declared bankruptcy. That’s above and beyond arrests for bad checks and failed businesses. Your former business neighbor in Kentucky didn’t have anything kind to say about you and your business acumen. In fact, the person was relieved that you were gone and hoped you weren’t planning on returning any time soon.

  7. Yesterday, when she posted her explanation of the feces rumors on her blog, I realize just how confused and uneducated she is. And, watching her frequent online breakdowns is painful because it does show how mentally unstable she really is. I actually feel sorry for someone not operating at full capacity.
    And there are a few trolls. Not this blog, from what I’ve seen so far, but I have called out a few of the Facebook pages for what I feel are unfair attacks on things beyond the naugler’s control. (I believe some of the unfair attacks come from emotional reactions to a very sad saga.)
    But then I remember what a manipulator Nicole truly is, despite the mental instability and difficulty writing on an adult level.
    She loves the trolls. They play right into her pity ploy. She eggs them on to get the screen shots to post and say, “look how mean they are to me.”
    I was banned from commenting on blh months ago. I never, ever posted anything other than questions. I wasn’t snarky or accusatory. Legitimate questions and often on posts where she asked for questions. On the other hand, I’ve seen her allow certain people to post comments that are snarky and maybe borderline trolling. Those people serve her purpose. A person like me, with genuine questions or suggestions do nothing for the persona they are failing so hard to project.
    Point is this: crazy podcasts on trolling and Nicole’s limited intellect aside, even a 10 year old knows you don’t feed trolls. She feeds them because ultimately it’s the persecuted, victimized version of the nauglers that results in the $upport and validation that has actually fed them for years and years. Almost seems like growing a fucking garden and just becoming self sufficient would take LESS effort than the game.
    That’s why I appreciate and frequent this blog. I believe there is a mature, proper way to expose the truth. I applaud you for the efforts.

  8. No, I am not a half assed journalist wannabe, I’m just an ordinary folk reading and absorbing. So in the essence of not gossiping, here is the quote,

    “I don’t ask you believe my every word. But I do ask you use logic when deciding which stories you believe and if and how they are relevant.”

    Can we all just take a moment. Take this in, really absorb it. Simmer on it for a bit. One of the most profound statements, ever!

    So much to respond in reacting to those 27 words right there. Why, that could be a whole new path of discussion. So many places to begin…

  9. I don’t get her obsession with naysayers.

    “Not everyone will agree with us”
    is the only sane thing I’ve seen her say recently. So why focus on the people if you know they won’t? You have children Nikki. Don’t they give you enough attention?

    Or are you screaming to the abyss about trolls… because you’re projecting?

  10. I get the feeling that she can handle anger, insults, contempt, and the kind of manic laughter that comes from sheer crogglement better than she can handle a calm question that needs a factual answer. And even that is marginally better than what seems to be her nightmare: being ignored.

    The fact that she is dragging a bunch of children along thumpety-bump behind her in her constant quest for more attention seems to escape her. But then, her vision of her oldest child “moving out” involved him getting his very own shack (imagine!) in the Blessed Little Hobo Jungle. What other world could they have besides hers?

  11. “I don’t ask you believe my every word. But I do ask you use logic when deciding which stories you believe and if and how they are relevant.”

    It’s kind of hard to believe any of her words when her new blog posts contradict her old blog posts. What is the real story? The pancake story had different versions. The current post has two. In her own words.

  12. BLB— astute observations.
    From their very public online presence over several years, the Nauglers present with some mental health issues. Anxiety, feelings of persecution, paranoia, that block their abilities to discern fair, objective, concerned criticism from attacks. Certainly their preoccupation with “trolls”, the State, police, and rueing all the unfair things that “happen” to them, is quite unhealthy.

    Things that “happen” in our lives are generally (not always) a result of personal life choices. We choose to work hard, or not. We choose our family size, small or large. We choose to send kids to school and work our butts off to provide for them. We choose, by not sending them to school, to directly affect their educational choices as well as compromise earning power by keeping an able-bodied parent at home. We choose to expand, or limit our options. Trolls have no affect on this, unless the alleged “trolls” are putting a damper on your PR spin that earns sympathy and dollars.

    I again admonish Momma Naugler to do yourself a favor. Get counseling. Get off the Internet. Deal with your life choices that resulted in 11 beautiful children. You have real problems you created, and unfortunately solving them involves compromises. You aren’t used to making them, but the ability to accept compromise (and disappointment) is a start to improved mental health. I am not the problem. Other commenters here are not the problem. Facebook critics are not the problem.

  13. I’m not a very smart individual, however I do know that if you blog your life online, it never goes away. Someone will always be able to read it, and find parallels and discrepancies. I believe this may be why N has a difficult time shooting down the “rumours”. Too much evidence to the desirable contrary, and most from her own fingers typing the information!

    Note to self, never blog your life online.

    Another, wiser note to self, never comment on anything on Facebook and open yourself up to being obsessed over and stalked by anonymous, possibly psychotic, people.
    With that in mind, thank you for this site. Ugh, those poor babies. Who else wants one of the gals to write a tell all later?

  14. I read her Troll post before coming here to read. She talks in circles when it comes to *leave my family alone*. In the comment section, of her post, she wrote, “I’m not silencing critics. I’m talking about people who are spreading lies and gossip. They have no influence… They don’t get to dictate how we live our life. However, by perpetuating lies, they are attempting to influence how others treat us. That does influence my family. Namely my children.”

    No, Nicole, you perpetuate this. The people who are true trolls are the people that keep you motivated to keep posting the *it’s us against the mean world* rants. It’s the trolls that motivate you to bait those who come to your social media accounts.

    I always think of this line from the movie, Cold Mountain. It fits Nicole in how she stirs up the shit and then stands back, hands wringing in glee, to watch the fall-out.
    Only it fails and slaps her in the face.

    “…..But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say ‘Shit, it’s raining!”
    ― Charles Frazier, Cold Mountain

  15. (I realize that this isn’t related to the blog post we are discussing but I hope it’s OK I post this and maybe someone else could weigh in.)

    Since last May when all of this came to light, I have been perplexed by the statement made by Nicole in this interview from May 2015. Maybe it’s just me and I am reading more into this statement. Was she really OK with CPS taking the kids? Because this comment is so incredibly opposite from what she wrote about on FB and said in other interviews at the time. If she had written a post on FB or the blog that she “was really OK with CPS taking the kids”, this whole debacle would have taken a completely different turn!

    For some reason this comment has always stuck with me. I have been wondering if anyone else thought it was as strange as I do.

    “Yes my children were taken from me and this was very hard, ​but I don’t see there was any other option,”​ she said.

    http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/29080201/new-images-of-the-nauglers-before-they-went-off-the-grid

  16. Michelle, I think maybe you’re reading into that something that isn’t there. First, remember that when people are quoted by the media, it isn’t always very accurate, and cut Nicole a little slack there. It’s an out of context statement.

    Second, I think she was saying that given her belief system, she had no other option than to parent the way she does. Obviously, I think that’s malarkey, but I’m quite Nicole doesn’t. She’s saying that giving in to the system and doing it their way so they wouldn’t take her kids was not an option for her. She’s not saying that she was fine with them doing so.

    In the end, of course, she and Joe did cave to the system at least partially (first by registering as homeschoolers, and second by buying the garden shed, which is a fairly big step up from the shitshack), so they did, in fact, have some other options.

    The court system in Kentucky, from what I’ve been told by law enforcement people, is pretty lenient if parents try even a little bit to do better in their parenting. Even baby steps will be rewarded by returning children to parental custody. We may argue endlessly as to whether that’s a good policy, but that won’t change anything.

  17. Considering that the number of people they have been “revealing” on the Internet, just over the last few days, far exceeds her number of 6, the truthfulness of Mrs N’s statement falls flat on its face in the first few words.

    I don’t read her new blog, what’s the point. If it isn’t her revenge porn then it is only her rewriting of her own fantastical history. Having had the faulty logic and conflicting stories in her older blog posts pointed out to her over the last 8 months, it would appear that she has continued to delete the more obviously bogus entries and rewritten them taking her critics’ pointers into account. So, see she is paying attention. She does learn. She has been changed by all the criticism after all. She is rewriting her history as we speak to make it more believable and palatable to her potential new fan base. You can teach an old dog new tricks. The right tricks, meh.

  18. Personally, I suspect that all this new attention to what she calls the “trolls” is the second attempt at a staged virtual slip and fall. Having failed miserably with, what could arguably, be called the first attempt at a staged virtual defamation/slip and fall claim with the new “Groomer Nicole” page which had zero posts about business, but several attack and goading posts about her supposed “trolls”, she may very well have changed tactics, if not intent. Then again it could just be public justification for her investors, although she has stated time and again that her business is doing quite well. Actually, who knows? It’s hard to keep up with her stories, they are so mercurial. Let’s face it though, if she digs deep enough and finally irritates someone to the point of suing them, they could have an entire new fundraising campaign. The idea for such a campaign has certainly been bouncing around for several months now within that camp. I can’t name the number of times they have stated that she would soon own the deed on my house, but I do have all the screenshots. 🙂

  19. I’m just sitting over here waiting for them to actually start a real “homestead”, jeezus what are they waiting for? Wouldn’t that be the best revenge? To honestly do what they claim. Enough of the vaugebook pics. Walk the walk if your going to talk the talk.

  20. BLB,
    Thanks. I just thought her comment in the video was interesting. Feel free to delete my post about this.

  21. In reply to “Clinical Psychology”;
    Your comment was an exceedingly concrete and judicious discourse, bringing light to the heart of the matter, without insult.

    I believe Mr. and Mrs. Naugler to be exceptionally stubborn, to their own ruin. Their faith is strong, I will give them that; they just want their dream to work, ever so desperately. Alas, it is but a dream, floating among a harsh reality. Without resources, their dream will float away, out of reach. Resources are available and I would urge they take advantage.

    Many remark on Mr. Naugler’s refusal to work, thereby withholding income and denying the family prosperity of any kind. It is my conclusion that the reason for this is more to do with refusal to pay back-child-support for Alex (as well as taxes, in general), for which his wages would be garnished. Stubborn to a fault and unable to see past radical ideologies, demonstrates a true lack of critical thinking.

  22. Apropos of nothing in this specific article, my commentary comes in the form of a letter; I just find myself posting it here, for whatever reason.

    To whom it may concern,
    There are many people who would love to help the your family. Help is available, from “non-supporters” and “supporters” alike, in the way of SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program), by way of tax-payers. Tax-payers want to help your children succeed! You will not “owe” the Government, nor will your children. Your dignity will remain intact, far more so than in your present situation, than on SNAP. Imagine being able to give your children a proper diet, proper nutrition! I am not suggesting further state-assistance, in an attempt at respecting your political stance.

    However. Welfare is not a conceptual weapon made by the plutocracy to strip you of your dignity, I promise! It is help, from fellow American families’ who care about the welfare of your children and their access to adequate food and nutrition. KY SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program), please consider it.

    https://prd.chfs.ky.gov/SNAPPrescreen/SNAPLanding.aspx

  23. “As The Nauglers Spurn”. Of trolling and harassment…

    I’ve observed that lately, and not so lately, the Nauglers’ alts and supportive posse have been working to silence this blog and various Facebook pages. The blog must bother them a lot. They are dredging up whatever personal minutia they can find on alleged “Naugler hating trolls” to slap up for public view. The exposes are everything from the personal to the ridiculous.

    In their minds, being spiteful is fair payback to the mean people “tearing apart” her family. Note to Nicole and Joe– you already caused that, back in May.

    People are not criticizing from a void. Views here have been based on either personal contacts, or a large body of public information from sources we already know. The Nauglers’ entire lives have been online for years, her children have never had a shred of privacy. They had five minutes of international fame and made $45,000 off it. Now she calls foul and asks the “trolls” to “leave us alone”?

    The Naugler camp can continue attempting to quash the facts as they emerge. Dox people, post it, harass away. It’s illegal. It also horribly time consuming and puts you in a foul mood. Giving you an “A” in Trolling.

    Meanwhile, there’s a compost toilet to finish.

  24. I second what Jack Livinashack said. Put up or shut but please, stop sniveling. No one owes you a damn thing. No one is obligated to help you raise your large family but you, Nicole & Joseph. So damn well do your job. You wanted these children, your wishes have come to fruition so do what you gotta to set things right.

  25. Jack Livinashack wrote, ” To honestly do what they claim. Enough of the vaugebook pics. Walk the walk if your going to talk the talk.”

    I’d like them to do the same re: their successful homeschooling program. Their eldest son should take the SAT’s and/or the ACT’s and when the results come in (months from now), they should post a screen shot of his success. Obviously they would have to redact his address and social security number but there is no reason why they couldn’t post his scores with pride.

  26. Just imagine what could have been accomplished in the past 8 months. Instead of some 40+ pages on Facebook, innumerable posts, unbelievable hours spent online reading every comment or searching for information on anyone who “asks a stupid question”, the “supporters” and the Naugler adults could have spent the time building the bigger dream cabin, the shower and toilet area, finished cleaning the debris from the property, built pens and fences for the animals, cut wood for the stove, prepared the garden area for spring or even built a greenhouse.

    Instead of using the limited electricity on the homestead for phones, tablets and other weapons of Internet mass destruction, power tools could be charged and wielded for the greater good. Time spent on the Internet could have been time spent with the children, or even time the children got to spend on the Internet unschooling themselves.

    All the effort and time that has been foolishly expended on fighting a make believe Internet war could have turned the homestead into a, well, a real honest working homestead. Now that would have really showed up those critics. A win-win situation, shut up the critics and have a successful homestead.

    Choices, life ultimately comes down to our personal choices, and we are personally responsible for the outcome of those choices. Close your eyes and imagine what could have been, then stop imagining and get down to work.

  27. Yes, well, now a non-filthy, non-delusional, non-sleeping-in-a-heap lifestyle has been defined as something The Trolls want, so it’s probably been added to the long list of things the Naugler parents don’t gotta do.

  28. Nice commentary, Lisa and Old Kentucky Home. My thoughts exactly. Not singling out purposely, I enjoy and am interested in all the discussions.

  29. Jenny Islander wrote, “Yes, well, now a non-filthy, non-delusional, non-sleeping-in-a-heap lifestyle has been defined as something The Trolls want, so it’s probably been added to the long list of things the Naugler parents don’t gotta do.”

    Don’t forget regular dental care (as in at least every six months) for their children. If problems are found, they’re to be addressed as well. No dental caries that go unattended for months at a time.

    Another item on the Troll list, so naturally it won’t happen. Nauglecting means never doing what The Trolls want to see done on behalf of the kids, because we’ll show them! Go on kids, show them.

    Signed up [Edit: Child’s name – yeah, I know people have used the children’s names before, but let’s try not to ] for either the ACT or SAT yet? Preferably both to get a more accurate assessment of the education you’ve provided to him through the years.

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