Sainted, Part One


Nicole, you dumb woman, nobody “informed” you of anything. You read this blog.  And I was very clear about what I transcribed. It wasn’t the whole damned thing. It was just a portion, and I very clearly indicated the places that I thought were edited.

It’s not my fucking recording. I didn’t edit it.

But, you know what?  You inspired me.

So I found and transcribed the whole god-damned thing. Or at least as much of it as I could find and felt like bothering with. I am quite sure anyone who wants to pick some nits can go through the original and find the occasional word that I missed. Some of the conversation overlaps (Nicole interrupted a whole lot) and it was sometimes hard to hear. Nicole speaks very rapidly when she gets all fired up and it all runs together and that makes it very hard to understand.

If you have a problem with my transcription, by all means, do it yourself and send me a copy that’s better.

Here we go.  The link is here.

[NOTE:  The track labeled Nicole-1 isn’t actually first.  The first one seems to be Nicole-2. It’s very short, less than thirty seconds.  I am not really sure when it was recorded, frankly, but Nicole is not having any shit-fits, so I assume that the sheriff had not shown up yet.]

Here is the first track:

Nicole: Yeah, it’s already almost nine o’clock.

Male voice in background: You’re getting ready to leave [I think this is what he’s saying – it’s hard to hear]

Nicole: Yeah, they’re just going to grab a wagon load of a few things we need and we’re on our way.

Male voice: All right

After that, there is some mumbling which appears to be between Nicole and one of the boys.

I have no idea of the identity of the male voice. I don’t know if it’s Sheriff Pate, and this is the prelude, or if this was on a different day (I don’t think it was, though).  I simply do not know.

Here is the second track. It is about 17 minutes in length and this is a long transcription.

Walking, heavy breathing (indicating that Nicole, who is holding the phone recording, is walking rapidly)

Talking begins at 47 seconds in.

Male voice (probably Sheriff Pate): [Greeting of some sort. I can’t understand him]

Nicole: Hello

Pate: How are you?

Nicole: Doin’ all right.

Pate: Is uh, James around?

Nicole: Joe. No, he’s not.

Pate: Joe. Okay.

Nicole: No, it’s just me and my boys. Um, actually, my pet sitter was watching my dogs for me and she’s the one that told me you were here last night. She told me, “I went by last night and the sheriff’s at your house – I don’t know what’s going on” and today she said, “I’m not going back up there by myself” so I came back to take care of my dogs.

[ NOTE: This is a little garbled. Nicole speaks very fast, and gets faster when she’s agitated and sometimes it’s difficult to discern her exact words, but this is the gist of it.]

Pate: Okay. How many of you all are here now?

Nicole: It’s me and my two teenage sons.

Pate: The other children are not here?

Nicole: No. We’ve, uh, got odd jobs goin’ on and so we’re not (garbled) gotta drive back. Actually, I’ve got to talk to. . . (mumbling)

Pate: Um, here, um, I assume you’re going to tell me that I can’t talk to the boys. Is that what you’re going to tell me?

Nicole: Right, that’s protocol I’m following [Note: she’s mumbling here rapidly and I think that’s what she’s saying]

Pate: Because, and I talked to, is it Joe?

Nicole: Mm umm (assent)

Pate: Okay. I talked to him today and asked him, and that is your right to refuse to let –

Nicole: Right, and I’m trying to arrange something with my attorney so that I can. . . (garbled)

Pate: Let me just explain something to you. Okay? Now you can believe this or you can not believe this, but I’m going to tell you what is going to end up happening. Okay?

Nicole: Okay.

Pate: If you don’t allow, after allegations have been made, the Cabinet for Families and Children to speak to those children, just like I said the last time – and Joe said today, he said, “Well, you said you were getting a warrant last time and you didn’t.” No, I did not. Why did I not? Because you all allowed them to speak to the Cabinet worker. Here’s how I see this thing going down. Here’s how I feel certain that it’s going to go down.

Nicole: Okay.

Pate: You are standing the chance of having your children removed.

Nicole : For what – under what grounds? [She starts snapping at him here.]

Pate: Let me just finish what I’m saying.

Nicole: For not complying?

Pate: Okay, when there’s allegations made – now let’s don’t – let’s have a civil conversation. . .

Nicole: Okay, I’m fine with that [I think – she basically backs down a little from her hostility]

Pate: When there are allegations made, okay, they have an obligation to check that out. They can’t say, oh, we just don’t believe it, or oh, we went out there and the mother and father said you can’t speak to them. They can’t do that. I mean, whether they think that it’s BS or not– and a lot of times we get those type of calls – and there’s probably a decent chance that is this type of call, and there’s a decent chance that this thing could be resolved much simpler – but I’m telling you, the refusal, to say no you will not talk to my children or no you will not do that – the court is gonna step in and I think that they will remove your children, and they will talk to your children whether you like that or not.

Nicole: So I have no rights as a parent.

Pate: and I don’t have a dog in this fight, other than I’m telling you

Nicole: I have Constitutional rights. I have a right as a parent, and my children won’t speak with anybody without my permission, without an attorney (garbled)

Pate: You want me to tell you what I think is getting ready to happen, and it’s gonna happen real quick?

Nicole: I’m going to be retaliated against for standing up for my rights.

Pate: . . .that is in the process right at this moment

Nicole: Right. I am being retaliated against.

Pate: I am tell you that court is in the process, as we speak, if it is not done at this moment of doing removal orders on your children.

Nicole: Under what grounds?

Pate: The Cabinet is in the process. . .

Nicole: Because they can, because they have the authority, because you guys are the state, because you guys are the ones with the guns, the ammo, the weapons? Is that why?

Pate: I’m telling you now, here’s what will happen the next step if you say, oh, I don’t care that you have a court order, uh, for my children, your children, if the judge signs that order, are going to be removed and then you are going to be. . .

Nicole: On what grounds? I mean, we haven’t broken any laws. I know, but you’re saying, okay, I’m going to arrest you for resisting arrest. That doesn’t make any sense.

Pate: I’m telling you. . .

Nicole: You guys have no grounds

Pate: the Cabinet for Families and Children have gotten a complaint. I’m telling you that the Cabinet for Families and Children. . .

Nicole: And I can call them tomorrow and say that there’s a complaint on you and it doesn’t mean it’s right, and it doesn’t mean it’s

Pate: Let me finish what I’m saying. Whether you like what I’m saying or not, this is

Nicole: Or whether it’s legal or right or moral

Pate: You have a right to do whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, but here’s what I see coming down the pike. You can believe me or not believe me.

Nicole: I know what the state’s willing to do. I know what it’s allowed to do and I know what it’s willing to do.

Pate: I am telling you that if that happens, and if you attempt to refuse that, then you will be charged with, I think, if the county attorney feels that way, and he has already indicated that he does feel that way, that each of you, if you do not comply, will be charged with custodial interference – felony charges

Nicole: I’m the custodian. How can I interfere with that?

Pate: Because if the state takes control over

Nicole: The state has control over my children. So they’re not really my children. I birthed them, I grow them, I raise them.

Pate: I’m not going to argue with you.

Nicole: I know you’re not, because you’re just a tool of the state.

Pate: I am just a tool of the state trying to make an honest living for my family.

Nicole: Off of corruption.

Pate: And if it weren’t me here, it would be another officer. If there is non-compliant and we get those court orders and the things that you’re posting on Facebook are true – ten ways to deal with the police –

Nicole: Oh, you guys are stalking my page. I’m glad you guys read stuff.

Pate: blah, blah, blah, we will bring a SWAT team in here and do what we have to do. I don’t want to do that.

Nicole: If you willing to shoot me to take my children, that’s what you have to do.

Pate: I am not saying that.

Nicole: you have a choice – you can either. . .

Pate: but I know that there’s gunfire around here and I see things that are posted such as – how am I supposed to take something that says you picked the wrong person to fight with now and . . .

Nicole: Yes, I was referring to the woman who reported

Pate: I mean, are you saying that there is potential gunfire on you all’s part

Nicole: I didn’t say anything. You can read into it however you want to, but I will protect my family.

Pate: But do you understand where I might read into it that?

Nicole: Yes. I will. I’ll post some more stuff on Facebook so maybe you can educate yourself a little bit more about my rights. My rights.

Pate: No, you have to understand. . .

Nicole: How you guys were on my property, without a warrant, one, two, three, four, five, and there’s four more on the other one, and it says “Keep out. No Trespassing.” What does that mean?

Pate: It means to keep out and no trespassing.

Nicole: Okay, so you guys came on my property without permission. That is trespassing. So I will file criminal trespass charges against you. It is. If you go on someone’s property. . .

Pate: You may need to educate yourself.

Nicole: I’m – trust me, I spend a lot of time – I’m – criminal trespass, thank you.

Pate: That does not apply –

Nicole: does not apply to you?

Pate: to the police when they are

Nicole: when you don’t have a warrant

Pate: Ma’am, if you will, there are times that I need a search warrant

Nicole: There’s a phone number right there. There’s a phone number right there. You didn’t attempt to call them.

Pate: I tried it numerous times. Left you a message on one if you’d have listened to it.

Nicole: Actually, I got that as I was coming in

Pate: I’m not going to stand here and argue with you. I am not going to stand here and argue. I think that if you do not comply, that , if you will look back, if, if you don’t care any more than to put your children out there, and stand a chance of them potentially. . .

Nicole: I am protecting my children from the state.

Pate: They are getting ready to go into state custody.

Nicole: No, they’re not. No, they’re not.

Pate: Okay.

Nicole: They’re not.

Pate: Okay.

Nicole: Mark my words, they will not.

Pate: They will not. Do you have them prepared to do something?

Nicole: I don’t have them prepared to do anything.

Pate: Are there weapons on the property?

Nicole: That’s my Constitutional right to have whatever weapons I choose

Pate: Okay.

[Short silence]

Pate: You’re making this a lot more difficult. . .

Nicole: My property is protected by the 4th Amendment

Pate: Why can’t you let them come out and say, hey kid, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and us leave and leave you alone for another year?

Nicole: Because I know what they’d do. You guys were here last year and we did the whole blah, blah, blah, and you don’t need to come back. You know that nothing’s wrong.

Pate: If somebody calls in on my tip line or somebody calls social services

Nicole: She’s a coward. You’re going off of hearsay. You’re coming after my family on hearsay. On hearsay.

Pate: I’m not going after your family at all. If somebody called in and said something bad was happening to you, I wouldn’t say, “Oh, I just don’t believe that.” I would be out here to investigate it because that is my job. If I don’t investigate it and something happens to any of these children, or you, if a complaint was called in on, then. . . then they

Nicole: I didn’t hire you to protect my family. I didn’t hire you to protect my family. I can protect my family myself. I do just fine. I didn’t hire you guys to protect my family. I am forced to pay for your services but I did not willingly hire you. If I need a bodyguard I will hire one.

Pate: Okay. What are you telling me exactly . . .

Nicole: I am telling you I know my Constitutional rights and I’m willing to fight them. I know my rights.

Pate: Physically fight? Is that what you’re telling me?

Nicole: I’m not saying anything. I’m telling you I’m willing to fight for my rights. However you want to interpret that is up to you, but I’m telling you I will protect my family.

Pate: I’m going to ask you. . .

Nicole: And I know how to use the law and I know my rights.

Pate: I’m going to ask you at this time. How many children are here?

Nicole: I told you. My two teenage boys are here.

Pate: Okay, I’m going to ask you at this time to bring them down here. I’m not going to speak to them. I want to lay eyes on them and see them.

Nicole: So if they stand at the van and wave to you is that good enough?

Pate: I would like for them just to stand, on the other side of that – I won’t question them, I won’t talk to them. I just want to see them. I won’t question them, I just want to see them. Tell them to keep their mouths shut and not say a thing.

Nicole: But why should I trust. . .

Pate: You don’t have to do that, but I’m telling you, I am telling you, that I feel like you are making this a hundred

Nicole: And I know that as soon as I pull out of here, you’re going to pull me over on some stupid little traffic thing

Pate: Not true

Nicole: and go after me for that.

Pate: Nah, that’s not true. I don’t do business that way. Never have, not going to get started today. I’ve been doing this for twenty-some years and I don’t enjoy ever taking anyone’s children from them. It’s the worst part of the job that you can ever do. Why would I like to tear someone from their home?

Nicole: I don’t know but I know it’s a big (inaudible) state gets money. I know that (inaudible) gets money. You’ve been stalking my pages. Did you see the video I posted the other day of the jailer who is auctioning off, saying oh we’ve got plenty of revenue, we’ve got criminals (inaudible) and we’ve got all these laws and we’re pumping people through, and here’s all kinds of money being made here. Did you watch that video I posted?

Pate: I am not a very smart officer if I am going to deal with someone who will not let me talk to their children based on a complaint

Nicole: I will let you talk to my children when my attorney is present.

Pate: and I don’t use, and I don’t use the resources that are available to me, you know. And if I don’t, you know, and you know, I have to use those resources to find out about threats against my officers and other people. My goal at the end of the day is to go home, to see my family

Nicole: I am arranging, I’m arranging a meeting with the (new?) attorney. When I arrange that, I will let you and CPS talk with them after I’ve dealt with my attorney. But I want legal representation before I discuss anything with my children.

Pate: Will you let them come where I can see their face?

Nicole: I don’t know. We’ve got a lot of stuff to do, dogs to take care of.

Pate: Nicole, don’t make this difficult.

Nicole: I’m not trying to make it difficult. I’m trying to protect myself. And I know my rights.

Pate: You’re putting your children out there. That’s what you’re doing, and I don’t think, I mean, if you love your children, you wouldn’t do that to them. Because you’re headed to . . .

Nicole: I’d let the state take care of them, right. Let the state come in and just decide what they think is right. What the state decides is right and wrong and not me. And it’s majority rule, and the majority doesn’t like the way I think or the way I live or what I post on Facebook that might offend people.

Pate: I don’t care how you live, where you live, what you live, or that you live off the land, I think it’s kinda pretty cool, but I think that you also have to understand that I have a job to do and that I have to follow up on complaints

Nicole: Then tell me exactly what, specifically what your concern is? What is your specific concern?

Pate: The concern is there’s a complaint to serve, one concern is that there’s a complaint to serve on Joe where he went to get water, supposedly – now, it’s based on what is on a piece of paper, I wasn’t there, I don’t know – there’s two sides to that story and the other side is Joe’s, but what is on that piece of paper is that he went to get water and they told him he wasn’t welcome to. In a nutshell, I’m not quoting what the person said, and that he told one of the children to go get the gun out of the glove box and that is a concern for the Cabinet for Families and Children. It’s also a concern for law enforcement.

Nicole: Okay.

Pate: Now –

Nicole: So, hypothetically speaking, if someone feels in danger

Pate: when you barricade yourself in a place and say “hands off, police” and “hands off, Cabinet for Families and Children, we don’t care what your complaint is, we don’t care“– you know, it’s okay for you to say yourself “I will never talk to the police and that’s my right.” It’s also –

Nicole: My children don’t have that right?

Pate: your right to protect your children

Nicole: Do my children have that right?

Pate: Do you think that I – okay, let me ask you this question

Nicole: So if I asked my children

Pate: If a family that doesn’t live and believe like you are saying that your family does – I get a call from some woman screaming and hollering “I just walked in and my husband, uh, is beating my child and they’ve got, they need stitches and their nose is broken and this and that,” am I supposed to say, “Well, who gives a shit?”

Nicole: I wouldn’t call you.

Pate: I’m saying if that happened – a neighbor sees it or hears it

Nicole: I wouldn’t call you.

Pate: A neighbor sees or hears it. What would you tell me to do as the police?

Nicole: I wouldn’t tell you to do anything. I wouldn’t call you.

Pate: So I should just let that child be abused and beaten

Nicole: If someone was beating my child, I would intervene. I wouldn’t let anyone abuse my child.

Pate: So there’s no in between with you understanding my occupation, based on your beliefs.

Nicole: No, I’m trying to let you know that I’m standing by my rights and I know that I have them

Pate: I think that you’ll, I think that you will see

Nicole: that I’ll be punished for standing up for using my rights?

Pate: I think that you’re going to wish that you had just let the children say “hey” or that “everything’s okay” or this that and the other when your children are potentially taken out of the home and split into different custody. That’s what I think you’ll see. That’s where we’re headed. That’s where it’s going.

Nicole: If that’s what you guys want to try to do, then that’s fine.

Pate: It’s not what I am going to try to do. It’s going to be a petition placed by social services handed to a judge,

Nicole: You still haven’t told me what your concern is.

Pate: I’m going to let the Cabinet tell you that.

Nicole: Well, you’re here. You want to talk to my children. (Calls) Jacob! You and [younger brother’s name] come stand right there and wave to Mr. Officer here and then go back to the cabin. Unless you want to talk to him, then you can come down here.

Pate: This could be so. . .

Nicole (to Jacob): Do you want to talk to the officer here?

Jacob: No, I can’t say that I do.

Nicole: Okay, you and [younger brother’s name] come stand right here. If you want to talk to the officer, you can. If not, just stand there and don’t say a word. It’s up to you. Go tell [younger brother]. Well, tell him real quick because the officer wants to see him, physically see him. If he wants to talk to him, he can come down here. If not, he can just stand there and wave. Does Maggie have water?

Jacob: Yes.

Nicole: Is she untangled?

Jacob: Yep.

Nicole: Good. Thank you. Can you grab my, uh, bling boxes please?

Jacob: Yeah.

Nicole: Thank you. [to Pate] Well, there’s one child.

Pate: So, you all are not living here. You’re not staying here. Is that what you’re telling me?

[NOTE: At this point, Nicole becomes very soft-spoken and difficult to hear and extremely evasive.]

Nicole: I don’t know.

Pate: Is there a reason for that?

Nicole: Uh, yeah, it’s personal reasons.

Pate: So were you all here earlier today when we were here?

Nicole: No, uh, I came only by just because the lady who was supposed to watch my dogs didn’t want to come back because you guys made her uncomfortable.

Pate: So she was here.

Nicole: She was here last night when you guys were here but she left. She was supposed to make sure the dogs had water.

Pate: Are you all moving from here?

Nicole: That’s personal information.

Pate: That’s what?

Nicole: That’s personal information.

Pate: Oh.

Nicole: [unclear mumbling]

Pate: How many children do you have? Ten or eleven?

Nicole: If you were following my page, you’d know. You were reading there today, obviously you were reading my page today, previous post, because that was

Pate: I’m not going to argue with you

Nicole: I know

Pate: I don’t have Facebook, don’t follow Facebook

Nicole: you obviously read my posts from today and yesterday and last week [Speaks to younger son] [Name], do you want to talk to these gentlemen? Yes or no.

[Younger son]: (unclear)

Nicole: Okay. If you have anything you want to say you can come by, if not you can go finish grabbing what you’re grabbing. Alma, back. Go see – [son’s name] call Alma.

[Younger son]: Alma!

Nicole: Go with him. [to Pate] Is there anything else that you need?

Pate: Nicole, I’m sorry that you are allowing things to go this way. Okay, you may think that I am trying to call your bluff but I think you’ll see differently. It’s not a threat. I think that you will regret doing business the way that you’re doing it. Okay? That’s what I have to say. I mean, I don’t know if your husband is controlling the way that you are responding. . .

Nicole: No (with a laugh)

Pate: to this situation. . .

Nicole: No.

Pate: This is just you all’s beliefs, but I would hate to think what the world would be like if there weren’t some kind of authority figure, okay?

Nicole: yeah.

Pate: Um, so, we’re gonna go, but I can’t tell you that we won’t be back tomorrow.

Nicole: I won’t be here.

Pate: Okay.

Nicole: I have work to do. I don’t use the state funds to support my family, so I actually have a job.

Pate: Do you all receive any state funds, as assistance?

Nicole: No. Never have. I will not be a whore of the state, either by paid profession or voluntarily – welfare handouts. [To the boys:] Do you have everything? [To Pate] Am I, am I free to go?

Male voice: Yeah.

Nicole: Thank you.

I have marked some lines in red type because they really stood out to me. Nicole, in this audio, was belligerent as hell.  She was for the most part, snappy and rude.  She belittled Sheriff Pate for his very job, referring to it as “corruption.”

In addition, it’s all about her. It’s about her rights, and her interpretation of the law, and her dictating who could do what.  It’s her schedule, down to arranging for an attorney.  Only Sheriff Pate (marked in blue) mentions that she might want to think about what she’s potentially putting the children through and if she loved them, maybe she wouldn’t do that. He’s the one who seems to actually be concerned about her children. Not her. She’s just concerned about her “rights.”

And there are several places where she makes what I consider to be veiled threats of violence. Sheriff Pate obviously read it that way as well.  There are also serious indications throughout this whole thing that the Nauglers were in the process of fleeing.

My special favorite place was where she accuses Pate of never trying to call them, and then he immediately says, oh yes, he did, and left messages, and then she immediately says, oh yes, she got that one. That was the only real comedic portion of this whole thing, but it was funny.

So Sheriff Pate spent the better part of 20 minutes trying to reason with Nicole, trying to prepare her for what was coming, and trying to get her to relent.  He knew he was about to get a removal order and he kept telling her that.

During this whole thing, Sheriff Pate never once raised his voice, or lost his temper, or was anything but calm and measured and very, very patient.

This is a very long post, so I am going to continue this in another one.