Sainted, Part Two

The first two parts of this recording are on the other page.

Here is part three, which is the actual removal of the older two kids and Nicole’s arrest.

Pate: Do not make it any worse than it’s going to be.

Nicole: He knows his rights.

Pate: We’ll end up arresting your mother

Nicole: NO

Pate: I’m asking you to maintain your silence and I’m asking you to not interfere with what we’re doing.

Nicole: I don’t have proof that you have proof to take my children.

Pate: I have told you that as sheriff of this county and I am telling you now. . .

Nicole: (Yelling) Will you call the state police please? They are trying to kidnap my children. Call the state police and tell them.

Pate: We may call them ourself and get one out here

Nicole: Please do, cause you are overstepping your bounds. You have no grounds for taking my children. On hearsay, you cannot take my children. That does not give you grounds to do anything. That is kidnapping.

Pate: Ma’am, I am asking you to ask your children to comply with a court order that we . . .

Nicole: I don’t have proof of your court order, so therefore I’m going off of what you said and that’s not enough. That’s not enough. [Younger son’s name], stop. He’s just going to shoot you, ’cause that’s what cops do. They shoot people that don’t comply. You cannot kidnap my son.

Deputy: Sit down. Sit down!

Nicole: (yelling) You cannot kidnap my son.

Deputy: Ma’am, sit down!

Nicole: You cannot kidnap my son.

Deputy: You’re going to be under arrest

Nicole: You can shoot me dead, you can shoot me dead, but you cannot kidnap my son.

Deputy: talking in background, hard to understand

Nicole: (yelling louder) You will not kidnap my son! No! You stop. That is abuse. Stop abusing my children. Dear God. . .you’re gonna sleep tonight thinking you stole my kids because you’re

Deputy: (louder) Ma’am, you need to sit down in the car.

Nicole: (unclear) shoot me! (unclear) fucking do it

Deputy: (unclear) you’re going to be under arrest

Nicole: Go ahead!

Deputy: You’re going to be under arrest for disorderly if you don’t sit down!

Nicole: I am standing up for my rights! I have a 4th Amendment right to search and seizure (unclear) my children! You have seized my children! You have seized my children! [Yelling son’s name], do not say a word! I will come get you. Jacob, do not say a word under any circumstances.

[Pause of several seconds]

Pate: I explained to you what was getting ready to happen, didn’t I?

Nicole: You did this! You threatened me for not complying. You threatened me for not complying. You have no grounds to take my children.

Pate: Ma’am, do you want to go to jail with me?

Nicole: (yelling) I do not! I need to go find my other children and make sure you don’t take them either.

Pate: I am asking you to calm down, okay? I am asking you to calm down or I am placing you under arrest for disorderly conduct. Do you understand what I’m telling you?

Nicole: Why did you take my. . . I never saw a warrant, I never saw any kind of paperwork, you – I understand my rights.

Pate: Do you understand what I’m telling you? Do you understand what I’m telling you.

Nicole: I understand that I do not have a lawyer for them. I understand all this.

Deputy: You’re going to start understanding that you have to comply with the law, too.

Pate: I think she needs to be arrested for disorderly.

Nicole: No! I am not being disorderly. I am standing up for my rights.

Pate: You’re under arrest.

Nicole: NO SIR! DO NOT TAKE MY FOOT (garbled very loud yelling ) HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! (garbled rapid speech about her phone and stuff recorded and “my husband” and something about “be careful of my belly.” ) I am not disorderly. I AM STANDING UP FOR MY RIGHTS. I don’t have any rights. (Pause) Can I leave my keys and my phone in my car for my husband? (Crying)

[At this point, the audio gets more distant as Nicole is obviously separated from her phone – the recording device]

[Several minutes of inaudible stuff follow, picking up at 7:34]

Deputy: There’s a phone laying in the front seat

Voice in distance: That’s not hers, that’s the boys. It’s the boys.

Another voice: This is not it?

[At 8:05, Joe enters]

Joe: I’m the father.

Pate: I understand you’re the father. I want you in the car or I will put you in a police car too. Do you understand me?

Joe: I’m recording it.

Pate: Do you have any children with you?

Joe: No, I do not. Listen, (inaudible) my wife.

Pate: I need the other children brought to the county (inaudible) I tried to deal with (inaudible).

Joe: (inaudible) We have done nothing wrong. Well, I have some friends coming up

Pate: (inaudible) we tried that

Joe: Where did they go with my wife? Can I take this car? She’s going to the county jail? You guys know that this is going to go viral. It’s going to go viral.

Pate: I want you to get in your car right this moment.

Joe: I will! I will! Yes, sir! Yes, sir. Yes, sir, yes, sir.

[several inaudible comments]

Joe: I can’t afford (inaudible)

Voice: (inaudible) in your car or you’re going to be under arrest

Joe: Yes, sir!

[Several moments of inaudible voices in the distance – resumes with more looking for the phone]

Voices: Was it a white phone or a black one? I think the black one.

[more inaudible stuff – at 12:19 a car leaves]

[12:52 – more cars leaving, and possibly Joe talking in the distant background]

Joe: . . . just because we wouldn’t talk to you guys on your terms, because we were busy.

Pate: They need to be there by ten o’clock in the morning. . . (inaudible) laying on the dash. Did you find her phone, Bruce?

Voice: She was scuffling and carrying on, her phone (inaudible) . . . hollering

Joe: So her phone’s not here at all?

Voice: You might try to call it if it’ll ring.

Voice: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, (inaudible) It could be, I don’t think it’s in my car. He’s calling it. . .

There is a better recording of Joe located here. I didn’t go to the trouble to transcribe it because it’s just Joe caving in rapidly and saying little if anything meaningful.  And this version has the great stuff, like the “this is going viral” thing (be careful what you wish for), and the whole “we were busy and therefore the Breck County judge can just jolly well wait on us to get around to stuff” thing.

But notice how Nicole says that she knows she doesn’t have a lawyer for her children?  She never had an attorney. All the shit about “we’re arranging for our attorney” was just that – shit.  They didn’t have an attorney. They didn’t get one until some time later, after this.

So they were not prepared to allow CPS to interview those kids, ever.

Okay, now for one last little gem. This is Joe.  Joe is telling his other eight children about their imminent surrender.  Nobody could stage this. If anyone ever deserved the Shitty Father of the Year Award, it’s Joe Naugler for this performance. [The audio for this is on that same Youtube video.]

Keep in mind that the two oldest boys were already in state care, so he is talking to children who at their oldest are very young teenagers. Most of them are just young children.

[6:51 on Youtube video]

[kids chattering in background]

Joe: Have a seat right now. I have to tell you what’s going on.

[kids background noise]

Joe: Okay, listen. The state has kidnapped Jacob and [second oldest son’s name]. They’ve arrested Mom, okay, and they will be kidnapping you tomorrow morning. If I don’t bring you down to the sheriff’s office by ten o’clock tomorrow morning, they will put FELONY CHARGES out on me. And Mom.

So this is what’s gonna happen. Tomorrow morning, I’m going down to the sheriff’s office and I’m just gonna have to send you guys to the state for a while, until we can get you guys back.

Okay? That’s just what’s gonna happen, and there’s nothing I can do about it. (inaudible) force of a gun to dictate this. You guys understand why we live the way we live? You guys understand?

Okay, while you’re with them, you say nothing. You understand? Don’t consent, and nothing.

Child’s voice: What’s consent?

Joe: You don’t, you don’t agree with what they’re doing. Okay? You be reverent, you be decent, okay? All right? But. . . this is, this is crazy out of control. So, I have to drop you guys off at ten o’clock tomorrow. You will not be living with us for I don’t know how long.

And that, folks, is how to scare the shit out of your kids in one easy lesson.  Use big words they don’t understand. Use other words like “kidnap” that they might vaguely understand and know are scary awful. Tell them that there is nothing you can do about it (so they have no champion or any defense at all). Mention guns.  And make sure that, like Mom, you’re making it all about you and your “felony charges.”

It becomes “Sorry, kids, but fuck you. I don’t want any felony charges so you have to go live someplace else and it will be scary as hell because it’s kidnapping.” And leave it all very, very open-ended.  “I don’t know how long.”

If the Naugler parents ever deserved to have their children removed for abuse, this alone is Exhibit A.

And if ever anyone should be nominated for sainthood, it’s Sheriff Todd Pate.