Joe’s Chain Reaction 3

[Technical problems]

HOST: I think given these issues and our inability to ask you questions, I think we’re gonna wrap it up with you and let you go, uh, and maybe have you on at another time, and, um, let you kind of . . .

This is just kind of a difficult conversation right now, and um, we will, uh, we’ll have you send us a message and the Facebook stuff of all, whatever it is that you would like us to link to and tell people about, we will do it then and you can do it right now ’cause we can hear you, if you want to tell listeners.

Let everybody know if there’s any way that, uh, that you know, uh, if you need any, any help dealing with any of this, if there’s any way people can reach out to try to help. (1)

JOE: Uh, okay. Yeah, um, I like this, I wish I, I wish I could hear

[fiddles with phone while hosts wait]

It just came on, go ahead and say something again.

HOST: Can you hear us?

JOE: Yep. I gotcha now. I can hear you loud and clear now.

HOST: Okay. So, so, this woman, um, she, um, I’m looking at the Blessed Little Blog here and first off, I seem to remember seeing this woman’s posts before and they were pretty awful, but, I see this post on one of the first pages, um, that says that you guys don’t know how to homestead. (2) So that’s interesting.

JOE: Right. Right, that’s why I say, I changed the word to “quasi” because they, and they want to, what they do is they stage conflicts like this, like, oh, bantering back and forth and then of course, uh, when they come over to our Blessed Little Homestead page, and they go on and on and on, they eventually get banned and then they say, well, that’s a problem, and then now that’s drama, and now they hate us for it, and all that other stuff, but yeah, that’s why I say “quasi,” uh, because it’s not, it’s not gonna be the same and I have yet to meet two people that are homesteading the same or farming the same, there’s a lot of different methods.

HOST: Yeah, it sounds like “quasi” allows you to avoid criticism.

This is a fucking weird project. Like, Blessed Little Blog is a weird project. “You can’t outNaugler the Nauglers.”(3)

Yeah, that is really weird.

Like, this amounts to me to nothing more than like slander or something, libel, or hit piece or something.(4)

JOE: Oh, they add, well, in our humble opinion, so because we’re somewhat public a figures, uh, they’re gonna talk about us like that, um, you know on some level, I get it, I mean, you see what a public figures go through, Trump, I mean, Jesus, are you gonna sue everybody? Uh, (unclear) like this, and I’m not here to banter but what, where I draw the distinction with them is they market their blog. They market and advertise it, literally pay. . .(5)

NICOLE: They tell people, oh, if you wanna know the truth about the Nauglers, go here, and say. . .

HOST: The truth about the Nauglers? What the hell?

JOE: And it’s all just conjecture. It’s all just . . .

HOST: I’m sure they could just ask you if they wanted to know the truth about you.(6)

NICOLE: But everything we say is a lie, so there’s no point in asking us. They should ask people who’ve never met us

JOE: Yeah, these people have never met us, but here’s the scary part, is, we’ve linked these people back to the sheriff’s department in Breckinridge County.(7) Uh, and we have, we can only speculate, but we believe that there’s actually money involved from the county, (8) uh, because we’ve got a lot of screen shots of people being recruited, of people, you know, from people with different skill set, like bloggers, or investigators, or, you know, just little things, antagonists. These people have all been recruited, uh, to do it, and it’s a, it’s a handful of people, I’d say about seventy-five with maybe another hundred for support, uh, and they go everywhere. I mean, they’ll go to every, every social meeting place, everywhere and banter. I remember, one time, we went over to, uh, the governor of Kentucky’s page and asked him, you know, hey you promised you were gonna audit CPS, and deal with the funds that are involved in that, and uh, and whatnot, and they went over and just started trashing us. Everywhere we go, they’re there.

And so now we’ve also got a woman, uh, who’s running a, it’s called Naugler Nation, it’s a, uh, it’s a Facebook, uh, page that, and she does a podcast, and that’s all it is. Just people calling in, just, nobody’s really met us. I think they’ve had one person call in that’s met us, she used to work with me, she worked with me for a week and a half, at Burger King, before she was fired, uh, for, uh, trying to procure drugs from other employees plus the other employees just didn’t like her because she came in very arrogant. It was the, it was a management training store, and I got, I got placed in my store and she got fired.

She tries to swap the story around, that I was the one that got fired, and I was like, anybody could just call the company and verify the employment time.

HOST: Verifying information, that’s an old way of doing things. We don’t need to do that. It’s the age of the internet. Just report it and move on.(9)

JOE: Right, right.

HOST: Yeah, I’m looking at the Naugler Nation Twitter and it’s all just shit from like, like the same sorts of things the blog talked about, only talked about on Blogtalk Radio. Blogtalk Radio allows this sort of harassment?

All right, it’s a form of free speech.(10)

Well, on Blogtalk Radio, it might not be. Like on Blogtalk Radio, they might have policies against this sort of thing. I would, I would pursue that.

And on the Naugler Nation Facebook page, it just says it’s hosted by the Blessed Little Trolls and Their Minions, like these people really don’t seem to have, uh, any better form of entertainment than to just mess with your family, which is crazy.

JOE: Here’s the kicker, is they’ll tell you two things. They’ll tell you I’m a fat, lazy piece of crap wimpling and that my wife is a, is a toothless hag who just keeps poppin’ out babies and then on top of that they’ll tell you that they’re representing thousands of people that we’ve wronged over our life span and they’re just, all those thousands of people, are just terrified of us. I’m like, well which one is it? Are we Jimmy Hoffa and the mob or are we worthless people? Uh, so it just, they run in circles.

And when people ask for evidence, when people ask for evidence, like, they’ve actually contacted clients, cause we run a pet grooming business out of Radcliff, Kentucky, and uh, we’ve had clients tell us that they’ve been in contact with,(11) and uh, the one woman was really good friends of ours, and uh, she responded with, well, I’m, I’m really good friends with Nicole and her husband and their family and uh, cause the lady goes off and talks, you know, this, this and this she said, uh, I’ve got evidence if you want to see it. So the woman said, well, I’d like to see the evidence, and the woman was, like, well, if you don’t believe me, that’s fine. I’m just telling you from one, uh, soldier-wife to another soldier-wife and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s fine, and not once have these people ever produced evidence of anything they ever accuse us of.

Like they’ll tell you that I’ve got a history of violence. If that was the case, the media would have shown it. It would have been like, oh,

HOST: Yeah, that would have came out already. And you wouldn’t have your kids with you.

JOE: . . . all over, it would have been. Yeah, exactly, it wouldn’t have been “Off-grid family loses children” it would have been “Violent criminals get their kids taken.”

HOST: Right.

People like this are really, really problematic. Like, I’ve had, I’ve had experience with people like this in the past and it’s one thing to deal with someone who doesn’t like you because they had a legitimate gripe. Cause, you know, usually you can work that out. You can approach them, and you can figure out what the problem is, and if you both care enough to make it better, you can do that.

But when people are just, when they’re just out to get you, just because, like, that makes people very, very dangerous, because there’s really nothing you can do to get them off of you.

You know, like their, their sole goal is just to destroy you and that is, it’s very scary, to have to deal with people like that.

JOE: They say we’re public figures, and, and, I would say we definitely have slander and libel, uh, lawsuits that we could file, but, but we don’t have celebrity money.(12)

HOST: Yeah, how much time and money are you willing to waste on that?

JOE: Exactly. You know, and you know, I’ve prayed about this, (13) and uh, you know, and I’ve come to a logical conclusion that, okay our names are getting run through the gutter, and whatever, I wasn’t planning on running for president anyways, I don’t believe in rulers, and I don’t believe that people are, you know, any of that, so at least people are talking about these issues. They’re talking about CPS. They’re talking about family court. They’re talking about corruption. They’re talking about homeschooling. They’re talking about homesteading. They’re talking about home birthing. They’re talking about vaccinations. They’re talking about circumcision. They’re talking about all these plethora of issues that have become political hot spots in, in, our environment. So, I like the fact that people are talking about these things, because that’s where most people will do their research. I mean, you have your, you know, most of these people that are politically charged, like this Sally Davis and this Lisa Luthi and a few others, they’re all, like I said, and I hate to use the word liberal because the liberal Democrats have hijacked such a wonderful word, um, but it, it’s these political people

HOST: The leftists (14)

JOE: we get it from the right too.(14) Oh, my gosh, we’ve had three-percenters and patriot people come out and say, oh, we see your issues, we want to help you, and they’ve called us, and then they get involved and they realize that we’re anti-militarization of our police force, that we’re anti-tyranny, and uh, you know, that, uh, you know, we speak out against these things, and so they start going at us like, oh, you hate police officers, well, screw you, and I’m like who do you think’s gonna come take your guns, Mr. Three Percenter?

HOST: Or your kids.

Yeah, it’s not enough that, you know, that you’re just another person who could, uh, make use of some help from another person just because they’re good people. You also have to agree with their opinions otherwise, you know, there’s something wrong with you.

JOE: Yep. Yep. And that to me is sad. Uh, you know, I have never given my hand in charity (15) and expected them to say, eh, well, you need to, you need to vote for this guy, if I do this. Uh, you know, never. I’ve, you know, I’ve seen people on the side of the road and I’ve pulled over and helped them change their tire and not once did I say, you know, before I change your tire here, uh, uh,

HOST: What do you think about the wage gap?

JOE: [Laughs] Yes. Yes. Yes. What do you think, [laughing] Well, I’m sorry, I just can’t help you today.

HOST: Right.

All right, Joseph, I have my own kid I gotta take care of in the next fifteen minutes. Will you, uh, can you kinda wrap it up, maybe give us some final words and then tell people about anything you want to tell them about, in terms of how to link to you. And we’ll link on our pages.

JOE: [To Nicole] Do you have anything?

NICOLE: No, I just think, I guess, in closing I would like to say is that, uh, it’s been really hard on our family and people have said why are you doing this to your kids, why not just cooperate with the police and do what they say in the beginning and then none of this would have happened. Well, if someone doesn’t stand up at any point, it’s just gonna keep happening.

HOST: Yeah.

NICOLE: And hopefully, this will help others, in fact, it has, cause I know that I get messages from people [starts crying], sorry, I get emotional, I get messages from people who’ve had their kids taken by CPS say, you know, your story helped me through this, I knew what to expect, you guys gave us courage because not everybody’s willing to speak up. Not only are we being targeted by the state, we’re being targeted by the statists.

HOST: Yes.

NICOLE: . . . who in turn, have been just as dangerous as the government because they’re the ones that are (garbled). I just tell people, you know, that’s, that’s we’ve always been outspoken about what we do and hopefully somebody can learn from our success and our mistakes, so, that’s really what we’re try. . .

HOST: Okay.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.

JOE: [To kids] Anybody? Anything?

I guess, you know, ultimately I just, uh, I live out of love.(16) And uh, um, and I can’t, I don’t know what your guyses beliefs are, and it’s irrelevant to me, uh, you know, I don’t share my testimony to convert. Uh, I know what my God has called for me to do

HOST: Yeah

JOE: And I have prepared myself and my family to do as such. Uh, and not that we instigated any of this. We are living peaceful. . .


JOE: We didn’t go to their. . . we didn’t picket their fences, (17) we don’t do anything. They came to us. (18) Um, but uh, you know, at some point enough is enough, like my wife said, enough is enough. And, you, I can’t sit there and look, not only my God in the eyes, but I can’t look, you know and I tell a lot of these people, you know, when you empower tyranny, how do you give homage and honor to the soldiers who have died for our freedom? (19)

Uh, because you’re, you’re not. You’re sitting here, you know, saying, oh, well, I’m being disrespectful to police while enabling such a, such a tyrannical system. Such a fascist system that it can’t possibly give honor to those who have actually died, uh, you know

HOST: And it’s under the pretense of freedom

JOE: So, I just, I don’t, we live in Radcliff, Kentucky, and it’s next to Ft. Knox

HOST: [expression of disgust](20)

JOE: And I communicate, we have a lot of clients that are soldiers, veterans, and uh, I just, I, my heart bleeds for them. I, I, I cry for them daily. Uh, on what the government sends them out to do. Uh, the people they have to kill for this, for imperialism, and uh, and I just, I wanna, I fight for freedom, and, and, you know, I fight for liberty, not just for myself but for my children. Um, and for, for those that have done it before me, and those who will do it after me. Um, I know that for me, one of the most powerful stories is when Christ, and you know, like I said, you guys can have your faith, this is just where I’m coming from, you know

HOST: Yeah

JOE: when I read in the scriptures, the Bible, uh, when Christ rose from the dead and uh, you know, these twelve disciples, uh, walked with this man for three years, went through what they went through, whether the miracles were real or not, they sacrificed with this man for three years, and he shows back up on the beach and he asked Peter if he loved him three times, and he just asked him, well, why, after three times, he says, yes, why are you just going back to fishing? (21)

And I just, I can’t go back to just living a selfish, mindless life. Uh, I, I’m already awake. I can’t close my eyes. And I won’t close my eyes.

So, you know, that’s it. I mean, I could go on forever, guys.

HOST: I’m getting that feeling from you.(22)

We appreciate it, thank you.

All right, I’m going to let you and your family go.

JOE: I appreciate all you guys. I appreciate each of you.

HOST: Thank you so much.

JOE: I feel a lot of energy by seeing you guys. It’s amazing.

HOST: Yeah, I’m so honored to talk to you. I really wish you and your family the best.


Absolutely. Thank you. Your story’s awesome. Peace.

[Joe disconnects]

[Each host’s remarks appear on a different line.]


Well, guys. Let’s just all say it: Fuck the state.


Fuck ’em.

Now, I have seen a lot of fuckery, uh, that is going on with people calling CPS, CPC, or, or, DIFUS or whatever it’s called in that state on other parents. Um, especially, you know, I spent a lot of time hanging around like, you know, slummy areas when I was younger and even some of my adult years, and there’s a lot of that shit going, but not to this degree. I mean, it’ll be shit like, uh, you know, uh, somebody says something smart or whatever, and the next thing you know, knock, knock, knock, uh, DIFUS is at your door, and they’re in your life for the next three months. It’s mandatory, and at least that’s what it is in Jersey, as far as I know. Which means, during those three months, they could pop up at any time at your house for any or no reason. You have to let them in. They go through all of your shit. They separate you from your children, and a lot of times they try to manipulate your kids to get them to say all kinds of crazy shit, just so they can have an excuse to snatch your kids away from you. . .

That’s how they make money.(23) Their profit is in getting more kids. The more kids that they can take from families, the bigger budget they can justify to higher up political masters. And that’s not to say that C, that everything CPS does is bad. That’s, that’s the real tragic part is some kids, the best thing to do is to take them away from their families. You know, I mean, I’ve, I’ve dealt with kids that have had literally the worst things you can imagine other than killing them happen to them by their parents, you know, on a regular basis. But, uh, then that’s the problem with this statist motivation is that you don’t get resources to protect children. You get resources to take as many children as you can even if they’re already in safe environments.

And you know, I mean, you say that like CPS does good things, but I would say that even the good things they do, having a monopoly on those services, on those sorts of things, uh, means that those things fundamentally aren’t good because the neighbors can’t stop it while it’s happening and prevent further psychological and physical trauma.(24)

Well, I think that’s where the issue comes from, is because you can’t, like you can’t block it. You know, even if the thing that they are doing is good if they’re taking some kid out of an environment where he’s constantly being beaten or molested by his drug-addict parents or whatever. I mean, yeah, I get that that seems great in that case, but you can’t prevent that from happening to, to, you know, somebody who, who is great with their children, and you know, everything is fine.

And it’s the statist snitch mentality. It’s like not if you see something, do something to stop it from happening. It’s if you see something, say something. You know, let us take care of it because we’re the only ones who can and if you disagree we’ll fight you or kill you or take away your children and make your life hell.

And what are they seeing?(25) What they’re seeing is people raising their kids in a different way than what people typically raise their kids. And because, we talking about (talking over each other), because of this mold, stupid-ass public school mold that kids get forced into and they have this idiotic mindset that this is the way to do things and that the state overlords should always be praised and their way is what is best for children and there are no alternatives and then they grow up from that environment and become this type of person that thinks raising your kids on a homestead is problematic. Or that homeschooling your kids is some negative thing. Idiot.

What really got me was, it, just seemed like all of this was just, was just the state just trying to whip these people in line, like just dragging them through the process, just having this giant pissing contest just to, just to let them know who’s boss, just because. Like, there, there was no, I mean, from what I’m hearing, there was no reason for any of this shit.

Well, see, and the thing like you can just say it’s for spite, but to me I see like a possible long line of parents who say, well I don’t want to go through what they went through, so I guess I won’t keep it up. You know, it’s not just to keep these people in line. It’s using them as an example. You fuck with us, we’ll take your children and make your life hell. But more people than just that. It’s the ripple effect.

Yeah, absolutely.


Absolutely. You pick one person to make an example of them, just like you know when it comes to like pirating music or games or whatever, um, like a lot of people do that, they don’t even try to hide, because why, fuck it. But every once in a while, you know, they will just target some, some unlucky person and just dump all of the fines and crazy shit on them as possible, just to make an example out of them.

Exactly. All right guys, I have to wrap stuff up on my end. So, uh, any final thoughts?

Yes, I’m fucking disgusted.

We’ll talked more about this last week. I think we’re all sick to our stomach. I mean, of course, it is possible that they are lying about everything. I haven’t researched it, (26) but I, I am always inclined to believe that someone has been oppressed by the state,(27) and it sounds like there is not evidence being presented and any time you see such a, such a strong counter, um, counter case, countering of individuals by both the state and the media in terms of their blogs and podcasts, there is usually a pretty good indicator that the state is doing something they want to conceal by blaming someone else.

You know, keep in mind they can’t be oppressed because they have no institutional power.


Just one of those reminders that they have, the state has the violence and they will do whatever they want, or whatever they can get away with.

Also another reminder is to make, be very, very careful who you let into your lives or who you let even look into your lives, because, even, even if they can’t do shit to you, they know that they can always call the cops and, or whoever else, child protective services, whatever, because, and in a lot of cases it all comes down to who reports first. And even if it’s a lie, liars know that shit. If you can get to the cops first with your bullshit story, then you’re okay. If your intention is just to fuck with somebody, you know, then, that’s very easy to do as long as you can get to them first.



It’s the same sort of like childhood thing where you know, you know, I got my story in first, so the teacher or Mommy or somebody believed me.

Yeah, I used to do that shit when I was in school. I’d smack the shit out of somebody and then yell out, stop hitting me and the teacher would turn around and then see the other kid swinging back and he’d get in trouble.


That’s very smart. Damn, people are, they just, they just try to deal with the problem as if they’re actually dealing with the problem. Just kind of deal with something, you know, if we can get a kid in trouble, and then say, I solved it, I did something. . .

But that’s the thing that’s killing me. Like, what are they solving? Like, what are these people solving?


Like, I mean, let’s say these people reached their stated objective and they destroy these people’s lives and they destroy the lives of their, because that’s what’s going to happen if these people really get their way.

[talking over each other]


I mean, there’s nothing, few things more dangerous to the state than people raising a lot of children and teaching them the truth about the nature of reality and the nature of the state of the world that they live in. They don’t want people that understand the way the world works and now his children have an experience of the state that is more visceral and powerful than it would have been if he just would have told them about it. You know, it doesn’t, it’s not a good thing, it’s absolutely horrific, but man,

And I bet they probably have a lot less difficulty because of the way that they raised their children because the way that CP, uh, CPC tries to manipulate children when they get them alone and ask them very leading questions so they can try to get the answers that they want and it looks like, from, from the interview with the children, that they didn’t get the answers that they wanted out of them.

So what’s amazing about that, like children can’t sign contracts because they’re like, not legal, full citizens, but they can somehow still deliver totally accurate testimony as if they were given just as many legal rights and just as good information even though they probably weren’t.

Yeah, it’s just whatever is convenient for the state. Okay, let’s really wrap things up. I keep saying that.

All right guys, plug your shit.

1. Bingo, podcast guys. You just said the magic words. Joe and Nicole will love you forever.  “Help” means money, though, not “help.”  Just send money.

2. Exactly where would you, Mr. Podcast Guy, have seen my “posts” that were awful?  Where?  I have never posted a single time on any of Nicole’s pages.  I only posted a couple of comments on a couple of the critic pages, and one of those was a conversation where I was defending Nicole (and got banned for my trouble).  So where?  Everything I’ve written is here on the blog.  And the Nauglers do not raise their own food. They do not do anything much except squat on some land and shit in buckets.  They have had a few animals, but most of those end up dead and not by being butchered for food.  They cannot even keep hens alive.  So I’m not sure what you might think is “homesteading,” but they aren’t doing it.

3. What is weird?  I think it’s weird that you had Joe on your little podcast, lapping up every word he said without bothering to check his veracity at all.  As for “outnauglering the Nauglers,” at my house, to “naugler” is a verb. It means to make do without what you need, to jerry-rig something using baling twine when you really should go ahead and fix it right, and it also covers carrying horrible crap in buckets.

4. It might seem to you like that, but I assure you, it is not.

5. I’m not sure what “market” means, but not only have I never paid anything to advertise this blog, I don’t even post it on Facebook, except for very occasionally on my own personal page. I do that when I write a piece that I think my FB friends might find interesting; for example, when I’ve written about calves or cheese-making.  And “they” don’t do shit. There is no “they” here. There is only me. There are people who read this blog who share links to it on Facebook, but they aren’t me.

6. Actually, no, I can’t. I’ve invited Nicole to have lunch with me twice.  I offered to pay for it. She declined.

7. Who are “these people”?  I have no connection to the fucking sheriff’s department and Joe knows it. Sheriff Pate’s mother-in-law sent me a friend request on FB and I accepted it.  I had no idea that’s who she was. We never had a conversation by PM, or phone, or in person or anything. When Nicole accused me of this, I didn’t even know what the hell she was talking about.  She had snooped around on that woman’s page and found me listed in her friend list (my friend list is not visible).  I do not know Sheriff Pate.

8. And there you have it. Joe, who accuses me of speculating, speculates. You know, if  you want to know about how this blog is financed, you can just ask me.  Hell, I’ll just tell you.  When I started this blog, there were three or so other people who donated to pay for the initial setup and first year.  The blog is more than a year old now, and I have taken care of all the expenses since then myself.

Furthermore, the only money that has ever changed hands (since that initial donation thing) is the money that has been donated to the Kentucky Sheriff’s Boys and Girls Ranch. You can see the links and a blurb about it to the right of the page. When I realized how many page views this blog was getting, I decided that it might be a good idea to somehow raise some money for charity, so I looked around for something good. I wanted a highly-rated charity that had a good reputation. I wanted something in Kentucky if possible. And I strongly preferred something related to either law enforcement or the military because I knew that would piss off Nicole. Furthermore, if it related to children that would be even better. And the Sheriff’s Ranch met all those criteria. We’ve raised enough money to send at least one child to camp next summer, and I’m very proud of that.

9. Mr Podcast Person is being sarcastic here but might take his own words to heart. I do lots of verifying. He has done zero.

10. That’s right, it’s free speech. Just like your podcast where you trash me with no evidence, and this blog.

11. Not only have I not known of anyone who has ever contacted one of Nicole’s clients, I wouldn’t know how to find her clients, and don’t care about her clients, and don’t allow much conversation about her business on this blog at all.  It might just be that somebody out there doesn’t like Nicole.  Ya think?

12. No, Joe, you don’t have either a case or money.

13. Gag me with a spoon.

14. If Joe and Nicole “get it” from both the left and the right, do you think perhaps it’s not political at all?  Maybe?

15. This clause is true. The rest, well, I have doubts.

16. More gagging.

17. I have no idea, but I am quite sure that “picket our fences” will become a new expression meaning. . . something.

18. Well, not in my case. I was just minding my own business when I saw a news article about the Nauglers and read it, and that led me to the Breckinridge County Sheriff’s FB page, I think, and I made a comment. Not about Joe and Nicole.  I made a comment to Joe.  I replied to him, and said that I thought the state did the absolute right thing to take their kids.

Joe then came over to my FB page, which is pretty public, “followed” me, and then snooped through my photos, and “liked” a few. This, I have discovered, is what he does to let you know he’s looking. It’s an intimidation thing.  He then commented on a couple of my posts, using veiled language, attempting to engage me in an argument. He ended up threatening lawsuits and shit.

He should have just left me alone. I didn’t like it one bit and because he did that, I got more interested in who in the hell this jackass was. And the rest is, well, a blog.

19. I suppose that calling soldiers ‘baby-killers’ is honoring them.

20. And that let me know that Podcast Guys are just like Joe. No wonder they believe every word out of his mouth.

21. One of the perks of having grown up as a fundamentalist Christian is that I have read the Bible a lot. In fact, my mother made me memorize the entire book of John when I was a kid so I could go to Bible camp for free when I didn’t even want to go in the first place.

And Joe’s account is a bit embellished.  Well, a lot embellished. Actually, his punch line simply doesn’t exist at all.

Here’s the pertinent Biblical story from John 21 (KJV):

15So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

18Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. 19This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

There is nothing there about “why did you go back to fishing?”

Now, I don’t believe these Bible stories are actually based in fact at all, so I don’t think Jesus said anything, period, but if you’re going to trot around touting your “faith” and acting like “God” sent you on some special mission, and thinking you’re this great “prophet,” at least get  your Bible stories straight.

22.  You are just now figuring that out?  I could have spared you.

23. Sigh.

24. Oh, dear FSM, the “anarchist” method of child protection:  Just march over to your neighbor’s house and bash him in the head or something.  That’ll work out great.

25. What we’re seeing is a couple who have spent years living off donations from good, decent, well-meaning people, both in churches (IRL) and online.  We’re seeing a couple who plaster their entire lives on the net, but in a calculated way in order to paint a picture that isn’t exactly accurate.  We’re seeing a couple who pretend to “unschool,” but actually do no educating at all. We’re seeing a couple who pretend to “homestead,” but actually do nothing of the sort, but instead live on some acreage without cultivating any more than a sorry-ass attempt at a backyard garden, and who shit in buckets and dump them on the ground.  We’re looking at a couple who collect some scraggly animals and let them run loose (they call it “free ranging” but it merely means “too damn cheap and lazy to put up a fence”) and then get outraged when the neighbors aren’t delighted.

26. It’s entirely possible and even probable. I have, in fact, researched it.

27. When I was growing up fundy, the people around me were just like Mr. Podcast Guy.  If somebody claimed to believe the same crap we did, we believed them. That’s how Mike Warnke conned people way back when. It’s especially important to vet stories when you want to believe them. It’s more important to vet those stories than it is at any other time.

And with that, we are at last done.

Page 1 is here.

Page 2 is here.



Joe’s Chain Reaction 2

JOE: I. . .no charges filed, no nothing. They spent eight weeks interrogating my kids. And, okay this is, go back. Thursday, they took the two olders Wednesday night, uh, uh, I dropped the other eight kids off Thursday morning and then we had to go to court Thursday afternoon, so I got Nicole out of jail, just before we went to court. And, uh, we show up and we’re sitting there, and so my lawyer’s like, well, what’s the situation, what’s, you know, what are our concerns, and so he just kind of, well, that’s not against the law, that’s not against the law, and what it broke down to was one of my Facebook pictures showed one of my kids walking on a dirt, on the dirt ground, and she’s like, well I’m just concerned that that’s your cabin floor. I said, well first of all, it’s not illegal in the state of Kentucky to have a dirt floor in your cabin. There are a lot of people in the Appalachian area that have dirt floors in their cabin.

And if that’s your issue, then my lawyer said well let’s put this off for 72 hours and have the Cabinet come down that Friday, that next morning, uh, and just inspect it. So, two workers and our lawyer met that Friday and she was like, oh, I see you’ve got an actual floor. She’s like, uh, and I told her we plan on building a bigger cabin, and I says, but she’s like, well, this cabin is fine, uh, I see how you opened it up with the warmer weather, um and she says, just before winter make sure you have the fourth wall up, yeah, that’s fine, we just took the fourth wall down to open it up into like a picnic area.

And she said everything was fine and as we were walking off, she can see where we had a little, uh, because the property we bought had a bunch of trailers on it that kind of were broken down, with furniture still in it, it was weird, but there was a lot to clean up, and we had a staging area where we had metal recycling and stuff. She’s like could you just fence in this area, that’ll just, no, not that there’s any laws but just for my concern and you know, for the children’s safety, and I says, that’s fine. Not a problem, I’ll just, I’ll fence in this area.

So, she’s like okay good. So we were planning on going back to court on Monday and everything was gonna be fine, they were gonna say everything’s fine and the kids are gonna be returned, but then, uh, my older son, from a previous engagement, um, showed up. (1) He just walks into this courtroom and gives the bizarrest testimony of sexual abuse and abuses. I hadn’t seen him. . .

HOST: Oh, no.

JOE: . . .since he was (unclear) old. Yes, I hadn’t seen this kid since he was 4 ½ years old and, the court documents from New Hampshire, because we were living in Texas at the time, we were expecting our third child, so we couldn’t, we had no money to go up and deal with the situation that was going on in New Hampshire.(2) So, but the situation in New Hampshire, there was no, no allegations of that at all. So he gives this bizarre testimony, the court figured, well, that good enough for us to reconvene in a week and we’ll, we’ll investigate those original charges, we’ll request those court documents, which they did and they saw that there was never any allegations of sexual abuse,(3) and they also interrogated, the sheriff and CPS decided they would sit down and talk to every single one of my children. So, over that week, they did just that.

So, Friday comes along and they say, okay, and we’re staying at a friend’s house, and so they say, well, we’re allowed to give you supervised visits, we’re gonna let you have your children back from Friday until Monday when we, [aside to kid] No. [child’s name], I don’t want him up there. [Back to camera] And, uh, Friday until Monday when we go back to court and you’re fine, your children are amazing. Uh, they’re very well-spoken, very well-mannered, very intelligent, they’re articulate, they couldn’t say enough words to describe how awesome we are.(4)

And um, so they kept saying everything (unclear) we’re 100% sure that the kids are going home.

So Monday shows up and there’s bickering going on between the Guardian Ad Litem and everybody and there’s arguing and finally the judge goes okay, okay, and she looks at the sheriff and she says, sheriff, on, on the record, this is his testimony on the record, sheriff, is there any reason why these children shouldn’t be returned home? And his testimony was, no, they’re not breaking any laws, I think the way they’re living is kinda neat, uh, and there’s no reason why the children shouldn’t be returned home,(5) and so she looks at the Cabinet, CPS, and says, asks them the same question. Is there any reason why these children shouldn’t go home, and they go on even further, like, no these kids are amazing, this family’s amazing, they described what they walked into, we didn’t even tell them we were coming, we walked in, the people that we were staying at had six kids and our ten kids and they were like, there was no fightin’ goin’ on, it was rainin’ out all day, they were cooped up inside but there was no fightin’ no arguing, they were getting along and they were just going on about how amazing we are, and how loving we are.

And so, but the Guardian Ad Litem starts sitting there saying, well, they could be brain-washed. And the Cabinet’s like, have you met these kids?

HOST: What?

This is reaching at this point. Making stuff up. Brainwashed in what way? Oh, you mean, to not be totally in line with your statist paradigm?

They could be Russian spies, I mean you can’t be too sure.

JOE: That’s it. And I, and, and so the Cabinet goes, are you kidding me, they told us that Dad smokes pot. They said, Dad smokes pot, and he also, uh, uses, uh, his disciplinary method is pushups and running laps. Sometimes he pulls out a switch and we get a switch on the butt. Uh, we haven’t used that method in quite some time, uh, but, uh, you know, they even said, none, there’s no negative effects to the marijuana smoking, he has no criminal background, he has, there’s no violent background, there’s, there’s nothing illegal about spanking a kid on the butt in Kentucky.

And uh, so she just, they’re all arguing, and so the Guardian Ad Litem goes on even more with this whole, well, he could, you know, they’re Christians, and uh, they’re a large family, and, eh, you know, the father’s a patriarch kind of blowhard kind of a thing. (6) He’s just manipulating and controlling these people and uh, if you met my wife, you know, uh, we both wear pants in this family.

HOST: Yeah.

Yeah, he might be a blowhard, but not a patriarch.

JOE: [laughs] But, uh, so it just turned into, well, we’re gonna keep the kids and we’re gonna put them through, my kids, over those eight week period, met with psychologists, psychiatrists, uh, doctors, a plethora of different specialists, from bone scans to brain scans to heart scans, you name it, my, they were dropping money like it was candy just to have my kids interrogated. They met with educators, and every time they came back, there would be a lot of political jargon, like, oh, the children weren’t allowed to go to public school, or the children weren’t vaccinated and the children don’t go to see a doctor on a regular basis, you know, Dad stitched the oldest kid’s finger back on himself, and the finger’s in good shape, but, then at the bottom it would always say, the kids are healthy, they have no recommendation.

It was just so. . . you don’t need to add all that other stuff to say my kid’s healthy. Now let’s get on with the show.

Um, but, oh, no.

HOST: I still have you.

Yeah, I don’t know if you can hear us, but you’re still on

JOE: I have somebody calling in.

HOST: Oh, gotcha.

JOE: So, um, during the next seven weeks of them doing this to my children, and then after seven weeks, uh, the, there, because I did test positive for marijuana twice (7) and then they said if you test, you give us a negative test, we’ll lift supervision and we’ll be able to place them with you. So, I, I, I had, I had stopped smoking some time, and it took like sixty days to get out of my freaking system. . .

HOST: Yeah

JOE: . . .but I finally cleaned the marijuana out of my system, uh, and uh, they were lifted supervision. After eight weeks, the children were placed back with us and uh, and whatnot, and we kept kind of going on, goin’ on, we still had these criminal charges, I was facing

HOST: You’re freezing up a little

[Technical problems and a little discussion about that]

JOE: . . . misdemeanor. . . we record every conversation we could, except for actually in the courthouse, I meant in the court room. In the family court room. The judge would not let us bring our cell phones in there. Uh, but we can order those transcripts, I’m not sure if she’s gonna, you know, seal some of it, because they were talking about that the last court date, of sealing some of it, but we recorded everything, every interaction, every phone call, everything. And uh, so the, my lawyer calls me up and says, listen, you know, you guys have a case, they violated your rights, these things can take years to resolve. He says, and you see how bizarre this has been from the beginning. He says, now, I’ll defend you if that’s what you want, but I’m gonna come home at the end of the day, I’m gonna eat my steak, and I’m gonna make love to my wife and I’m gonna go to bed. He says, they’re gonna find something. They’re gonna. Because at one point, the, the county attorney walks in and says, well, your honor, because they’re not being cooperative in their criminal charges, because we were like, no, we’re not, we’re not plea-dealing, we’re not, I was not guilty of menacing, and my wife was not guilty of, of, disorderly conduct or resisting arrest and that’s it. We’ll take it to trial. I, we don’t care.

And he knew he had no case. He knew that there was gonna be lawsuits, they knew that the county screwed up. And so, he comes into family court, and he says, your honor, because they’re not being cooperative in the other criminal cases, I want to add contempt charges in their family court case. And he actually put two of our kids on the witness list, making it to where we can’t even talk to them now.

And we’re like, so we couldn’t find out what was going on, what was gonna be said, or else we would have felony witness tampering charges as well. He made that clear too, that if we tried to contact them and whatever.

So, we’re now looking at contempt charges, which is six months jail time for each of us. And she was about to give birth, you know, coming up. So, uh, our lawyer made it clear that they were gonna find something. They were gonna hold us in contempt. He said he’d already know, this is, he was telling us that it had already been discussed, that district court was gonna find us in contempt, put us both in jail, take our kids away, get them immune, put them in public school, Nicole would have the baby in jail, they would take the baby, and yeah, we’ll get the kids back when we get out. . .

HOST: Under new terms

JOE: But look at all the damage, six months, just being separated from each other and separated from us and foster care is not a pleasant place.

HOST: Not at all.

JOE: My oldest kids were in a detention center up in Louisville, uh, and he’s, my kids were like, they’d just never seen anything that bizarre, people flipping out, throwing tables. .

HOST: Yeah. [Note: he sounds oddly enthusiastic about this]

JOE:. . . fighting each other

HOST: Oh, those environments aren’t sane.

JOE: . . .all sorts of. . . and, um, so he said, they’re gonna hold you in contempt and they’re gonna find something. Now the circuit court, which is also in the county, they’re gonna rubber stamp what district court did. That’s gonna cost you, you know, when you appeal, you go to circuit court first, that’s gonna cost you ten thousand and they’re gonna rubber stamp it. This is, he’s like, my lawyer’s like, this has already been discussed.

And so he says, in an appeals court, which is where it goes next, that’s gonna cost you another ten thousand dollars, and you’ll win but that could take up to three years. And I was like, holy crap. So he’s like,well, here, here’s, you know, the prosecutor wants to plead you. So I was like what does he want. And, uh, at first it was some bizarre things, so I was like, no. I want my wife’s charges dropped, or whatever, just, uh, uh, whatever they called it, deferred, or whatever, they just wanted her to admit that he had a reason to pull her over. So that way they can, we’ve already talked to lawyers, that still doesn’t negate from a lawsuit, uh, and then they want me to plead guilty on my Class B misdemeanor. I don’t have a criminal background. I’m forty-three years old and I have no criminal background. Ah, and um, so, they wanted to give me like sixty days jail time. I was like you got to be kidding me. And so, I ended up talking it down, (8) I ended up doing four days jail time and I did an Alford plea, which just means I maintain my innocence, um, but the county, they’re gonna screw me over anyway.

And then family court, we would both plead, uh, dependent [asking Nicole], yeah, dependency for living in a dilapidated home and because I smoked marijuana.

HOST: [incredulous] Dilapidated?(9)

You’re fucking me. That’s serious?

JOE: (unclear) . . . but dependency. Right. And, uh, which just means basically that I can’t work at a day care center or an old folks’ home or whatever. (10)

HOST: That’s truly insane.

JOE: So we said, okay, we’ll do it. And that was in November of 2015. So, and it was all supposed to go away. So they rush our criminal pleas through, uh, uh, I, uh, plead and I said I would do the four days jail time and Nicole said, yeah, he had probable cause to pull me over, and then as we’re getting ready to do the family thing, the Guardian Ad Litem starts throwing a fit. Just starts throwing a fit. Talking about she wants us to be forensically evaluated. Forensically evaluated. All of us. All of our children and us, so. . .

HOST: Now what exactly is that?(11)

JOE: . . . the judge goes ahead and orders it. In our deposition. Which is supposed to be . . . it. It’s like, in the (unclear) CPS worker, she’s like never heard of this. Usually, people have forensic evaluations to see if the children should be returned, not after, after the children have been returned, but after custody has been returned. So, CPS has been beside themselves this whole time, my lawyer’s been beside themselves the whole time, and, and it’s just amazing, so they did this forensic evaluation order them, it’s like a year later, they still hadn’t gotten any of us in. They kept going to court, saying, well, the lady had her father die, that runs the forensic evaluation and then other stuff going on, and uh, so finally they do me and Nicole, and now we’re talking over a year later.

So we go back into court and the results haven’t come back from them, but I convince the judge, and I speak up, and I convince the judge to sit there and say, (12)  well, let’s just call off the kids being evaluated and if we find something in the parents, then we’ll have the kids evaluated.

So, that was fine, so we set up another court date and they get the results in and basically it’s thirty-nine pages of, uh, political opinion.(13) At the end of it, it says, these parents are not suffering from any mental illness, but because, and she goes further, she says, and I, and she even states in her evaluation that her test doesn’t measure anything she’s about to say. But that the forensic evaluation actually (unclear) to prove that we don’t suffer from any mental illness. But because, but because we’re so adamant and outspoken about our lifestyle, about our political opinions, about our, about our faith, that it puts us in a contentious environment to where people react contentious towards us and that puts our children in danger. (14)

And I was like, what?

HOST: This is like blaming a woman who may dress a little (unclear) for being raped.

JOE: And, uh, they want to argue that, um, uh, that they want to see progress with this, and I was like what are you guys talking about, so I, I speak up again, and I tell her that, listen, these tests show that we’re not mentally ill, we’re not suffering from any mental illness, that would put our children in danger, uh, you know as far as the test results are concerned, as far as how they evaluate it and according to law, and uh, the psychological, you know, the different things, schizophrenia, uh, whatever, uh, they have on that list, um, and uh, and so I tell them that listen, because if the Guardian Ad Litem, my lawyer start talking about, oh, are you going to, you know, get every Amish person in here, or are you gonna get every homeschool kid in here and start eval. . . are you actually going to change Kentucky law and say that you need to have every homeschool kid evaluated?

And so the lady’s like, no, because they’re not sitting here in my courtroom. The Nauglers are sitting here in my courtroom. So at this point I speak up and I say, just because we’re sitting here doesn’t mean we’ve lost our rights. We still have our rights. And I have yet to see a charge with us being charged with anything. Nonetheless convicted of anything.

HOST: Right.

JOE: And I tell the lady, the, the, the tests, judge, I tell the judge, that you know, these tests, these forensic evaluations show we’re not suffering from any mental illness, uh, and that the Cabinet who is the investigative arm for family court testified profusely every time we’ve walked in that we’re a very loving family, our kids are very intelligent, very well-mannered, very well-spoken. Eh, and that, uh, they’re very impressed with us. Every time. And um, but the Guardian Ad Litem is a, she’s um, she’s one of those people that got really upset when Trump won, uh, she’s a liberal Democrat and she’s very anti-religious and anti-large-family and anti-traditional. Uh, you know, we seem to be dealing with a lot of those people at this moment for the past 20 months, we have, uh, a, a fanatic liberal blog writer who is, has been writing blogs for quite some time about us, everything. (15) Uh, we post, um. . .

HOST: Do you mind telling us who that is?

Yeah, I’m curious. I’d like to look up on them.

JOE: I don’t know if it’s my phone or you guys, I’m having a hard time hearing you.

HOST: Well, do you mind telling us who that is. If you aren’t comfortable with that, then that’s fine, but it’d be interesting to read what she (16) has to say

JOE: (garbled due to transmission problems) . . . dropping names. . . .you mean?

HOST: Yes.

JOE: Are you referring to the blog writer?

HOST: Yes.

JOE: (phone issues) There’s a different volume on this.

HOST: Yeah, the uh, the uh blog writer.

[Silence, more phone issues.]

HOSTS: (talking over each other) We can’t hear you right now.

[laugh] Well you silenced yourself successfully.

[laugh] yeah, we can’t hear anything now.

You changed the microphone volume.

[More technical issues, garbled, Joe in and out.]

HOST: You should have heard the technical issues we had last week. (laughing) Yes, it was a lot worse than that.

JOE: Now you sound like you’re whispering, and I can’t figure out how to turn up my volume here.

Um, well the lady that writes the blog, her name is Sally Davis, and uh, the name of the blog is Blessed Little Blog, and she’s been writing it since, since when? (asking Nicole)

NICOLE: About a year, or a little over a year.

JOE: A little over a year. And uh, first of all, they have no facts about family court, (17)

because no facts have been released except for the ones that we’ve released. Like um, the cabinet based the CPS saying the only thing they found out of everything, they have access to all the results, all tests, everything, the only thing they found to substantiate, is that educational neglect. And they specified, not because our kids are retarded or anything, but just because we didn’t tell Breckinridge County School Board, that we were homeschoolers.

HOST: Oh, oh no!

JOE: (talking over Host) That’s all they found. We released that paper.

HOST: That is insane, I wish I could, (garbled)

[More phone technical difficulties, don’t really understand what Joe is saying, but he is asking someone in the cabin if they know how to do something with the phone.]

HOST: Well, got it figured out Joseph?

JOE: I got it.

HOST: All right

JOE: Say that again.

HOST: No, never mind. Um, let’s try, let’s try to wrap this up. (18)It sounds like things are getting a little bit more difficult for uh, us to communicate.

  1. Joe tells this story as though somehow, they were just sitting there in court, and out of the blue, Alex walked in from nowhere, and nobody knew he was coming and it was all sort of Perry Mason-ish. The surprise witness.  He doesn’t mention the history behind all this or Nicole’s horrible actions about Alex.
  2. This is the most ridiculous excuse for child abandonment I have ever heard in my life. I don’t have 12 children. I only had one. But I would have crawled to New Hampshire if I’d had to before I would have allowed a court to rescind my parental rights. This man portrays himself as such a wonderful, loving father, but abandoned his first-born child.
  3. I call complete bullshit on this. In the first place, those were sealed, old records. He doesn’t say how long it supposedly took to get those records, but it wasn’t a few days. In the second place, I doubt seriously that they would have told Joe what was in those records. They are sealed. Joe didn’t go to court. Joe wasn’t a party and has no right whatever to the information in them. Bullshit.
  4. Does anyone else get tired of Joe blathering about how awesome he and Nicole and the kids are?  When you’re really awesome, you don’t have to tell people about how awesome you are.  One of the first things I noticed about Joe was his propensity to carry on about how “everyone who meets me loves me.”  Only they don’t.  I’ve met Joe and I certainly don’t love him.  Eric met Joe and didn’t love him one single bit.  His neighbors don’t love him. He keeps getting dragged into court because he cannot get along with anyone.
  5. First of all, why would the judge ask Sheriff Pate’s opinion on whether or not those kids should be returned?  What in the world would Pate know and what would he have to do with it?  It was not his decision to remove those children and it wasn’t his decision to return them. He’s a law enforcement officer, not a social worker.  Second, even if she actually did that, which I doubt, Joe’s quote about how Pate thought their “lifestyle” was “kinda neat” comes from Nicole’s encounter with Pate, not from court.  I grant that maybe he said it twice, but I doubt it.  Joe has a tendency to conflate stuff.  And third, if he did say what Joe says he said, and I am totally wrong, why have Joe and Nicole decided to go after Sheriff Pate with a vengeance and vilify him every time they possible can?  Seems that when it came to court, according to Joe, Pate was an ally.
  6. The Guardian Ad Litem simply would not use the “they’re Christians” argument in a courtroom where every single person present is probably Christian.  Seriously, this is Kentucky.  Finding a non-Christian in Kentucky is a difficult task.  The patriarch thing is much more plausible, as we’ve seen multiple cases of very nasty situations involving patriarchal men.  Joe likes to pretend he’s one of those, but he isn’t.
  7. Thank you for confirming that, Joe. For the record: I am in favor of legalizing pot, but when your whole family lives in a shed not fit for my cattle and your children are sleeping on a plywood board with no mattress, admitting you were spending money on pot is enough to make my blood boil.
  8. Joe, for all his bluster, caves when confronted with real authority. Plea deals are always engineered so that the defendant gets to “talk it down.”  It’s a bit like selling a house. The price is always more than the seller will actually take.  Negotiation is expected and normal.
  9. Yes. Dilapidated.
  10. I find this interesting.
  11. forensicevaluation
  12. Joe didn’t convince the judge of anything. Sigh.
  13. Read the definition above. Forensic evaluations are not “political opinion(s).”
  14. The translation of this is that Joe and Nicole are both assholes who create conflict everywhere they go and live in a perpetual environment of strife and controversy. This isn’t good for children. I concur with that.
  15. Oh, goody. They’re talking about me.  But read this section carefully and notice something.
  16. How did the host know my gender?
  17. I have never claimed to have any facts about family court apart from what Joe and Nicole have revealed.  Please show me where I ever did that. I do have copies of publicly available court documents for their other bazillion cases, and have published them here, but not family court.  We don’t know about family court beyond their account because it’s not public, which means that Joe and Nicole get to tell their side of the story, but nobody gets to hear the other side. So take it with a very large grain of salt.
  18. First indication that the hosts are getting beyond bored with Joe’s pontificating. They have a whole lot more to listen to, however. Joe is just getting started good.

More later.

Part 1 is here.

Part 3 is here.


Joe’s Chain Reaction 1

Joe wanted to be on a podcast. He could have come over to Naugler Nation.  He’s welcome there, but I don’t think they have the sort of audience he was looking for. He found a podcast done by three guys who look like they’re trying to be Rush Limbaugh and bent their ears for more than an hour. Here’s the link if you want to wade through the whole thing. Joe starts at about the 27 minute mark.

This is going to take several posts and probably a couple of days. I can’t spend all day long transcribing video.

Note: I am not going to differentiate between the three hosts. Transcribing this is laborious enough as it is, and they actually don’t say very much, so I am just going to call them all “Host.”

HOST: I don’t know much about him, um, or his family. (1) Is he up? Is he on? Joseph, can you hear us?

HOST2: He’s trying.

HOST1: Okay. All right.

HOST: [Begins to talk about something else since Joe is not online.]

HOST: Here we are. (Joe appears in upper corner of screen on Skype, complete with a bunch of kids.)

Wow, I love your crew, Joseph.

How are you guys doing?

How are you doing?

Hello? [Joe is smiling and obviously cannot hear them.]

There’s a big delay.

JOE: A lot of people to fit into one little screen.

HOST: Yeah, it certainly is.

Joseph, who’s going to be speaking? Do you prefer to be called Joseph, or Joe, or do you care?

You’re having issues hearing me.

JOE: Joseph will be fine.

HOST: Okay. And then, wow. Oh boy. If you’re listening in the audio, all the. . . there are. . .how many kids in the background there.

Oh, my god.

So, we’re all. . .

JOE: Ten (unclear)

HOST: Ten and your wife.

See, that is why we’re all kind of sitting here slack-jawed, in awe, amazed by this.

So, Joseph, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do, please.

JOE: Um, well, uh, a little bit about myself is, um, I guess fundamentally I’m just a very intimate father and a husband.(2)

HOST: Nice.

JOE: And those are my main goals in life is to be as intimate as I can be with my children and my wife. . . we’ve been together. . . we just celebrated 23 years.

HOSTS: Congratulations

JOE: And, um, I, uh, my wife runs a pet grooming business and I homeschool the kids and run the homestead here. (2) It works for us and uh, you know, some of the older kids that you see in the pictures here, they go and help Mom out at the work. It’s part of how we homeschool. Teach them a trade.

HOST: Awesome

JOE: You know the customer service, the bookkeeping and stuff so, uh, but, uh, we just, it all, I guess it just comes down to, you know, a lot of people ask us, cause we homeschool, about the socialization, and I say, you know, it’s a peer-based kind of society and I want to change that to a family-based society.

You know, we no longer have grandpas sitting their grandchildren on their laps telling them moral-relative stories. Uh, we’ve kind of lost that connection, we’ve lost our connection with our food, with, uh, with the way we pass on, with death, even, I mean, a lot of people send their elders to old folks’ homes. So, I’ve really focused on trying to change that.

HOST: Yeah, you have a classroom full of kids in your house anyway.

Thank you for, thank you for being a compassionate father that wants to be intimate with his children. I know you don’t need my thanks, but I just want you to know, I really appreciate the way you are making the future a better place by loving your children well.

Um, would you. . .

JOE: (unclear). . .you can push a lot of laws, you can push a lot of policies and political beliefs but fundamentally, you know, Ghandi said it right, be the change you want to see in the world and that’s kind of where I’m starting.

HOST: Can you tell us first a little bit. . .tell us what a homestead is and then can you tell us why you wanted to start one?

JOE: Okay. Um, well, I like to consider us a quasi-homestead. (3) I use the word “quasi” because a lot of people want to push their purity, their ideas and how they think and “oh, well, you’re just not a real homesteader because you’re doing this, this and this” or I have internet so I’m not a real off-gridder and you know it gets kind of annoying having those conversations all the time, so I just kind of interject the word “quasi” and just hey, this is our concept.

Uh, but as far as homesteading, it, uh, what we do is, we’re trying to, you know, I studied psychology, and I notice a lot of people who suffer from anxiety and depression are disconnected from their food. (4) I mean, look what happens when there’s a storm. People run to get their, uh, you know, their, uh, milk-bread, their milk sandwiches. You know, so I just feel it’s important that we connect fundamentally with how we grow our food, and how we kill our food, how we , uh, uh, raise our food and those things, and uh, so our homesteading. . .we kind of do it on the, you know, I also add the word “wilderness,” uh, because we foliage, (5) we go out in the wild, we know what mushrooms and what plants we can eat, and what ones are used for medicine, and which ones are poisonous.

HOST: That’s awesome.

.JOE: So, but the more my children, it, I have seen them so fundamental and grounded in who they are and in their environment knowing these things. Uh, so they, you know, my children, even after what we went through in May of 2015, uh, they don’t suffer from a lot of those things that other people suffer from with anxiety and depression and things, (6) so that’s fundamentally what our concept of homesteading is

HOST: Okay, thank you. Can you tell us a little bit, if you’re willing to, about what you went through in 2015? Did you hear that? Okay.

JOE: Yeah, uh, (some garbled stuff due to poor connection, I think), we’re very big on, on sharing our testimony and sharing our way of life and things like that, and we know what it does. It, it, you know, it inspires some people and um, but for the most part, it, in our culture, with such a politically-charged environment, it does cause a lot of contention. Um, but, uh, we oftentimes, I think it’s happened like seven or eight times, we’ve had people try to use the state and its overreaching abilities they’ve acquired, um, to target us.

Uh, we’ve, uh, you know, had conversations over circumcision and people have called CPS, you know, these anonymous calls, you know, which are unconstitutional. . .

HOST: Oh, my goodness

JOE: . . . because we have a right to face our, our accuser, but there was an anonymous to CPS from a woman, uh, who was upset that I, uh, it was two women involved, one of them was upset that I deleted her on Facebook. . (7)

HOST: (laughs)

JOE: Yeah, I know, it’s just bizarre. And so, I went over to where they were living, and they’re renting a trailer from the people that actually own the place and they have a great well. And we have to cart our water in, just like our neighbors do, they cart their water in, and uh, the owners of the property are preppers and we got along with them quite well. We’d share ideas, and we’d share prepping, you know, resources and things, and they had given me permission to, and I went over to get some water, and, and, she started acting, you know, aggressive and hostile and such and uh, she had another woman and they were kind of approaching us and whatever, but they had never been on our property, they’d never met us or our children, and uh, she sent some nasty messages to my wife and said she was gonna call CPS, so, uh, this had been the second time as we lived here because we have video recorded of the first time that the sheriff of Breckinridge County had come to our property (8)and was in my wife’s face and threatening, you know, emergency removal order.

At that time, uh, 18 months prior, my wife was ready to give birth, any day now, so, uh, I was being diplomatic, um, pretty much, you know, as we were exercising our rights, he was being very aggressive. We called the state police, they showed up, uh, and we allowed CPS to talk to our children. And, and it wasn’t like they said, “Oh, are you guys abused” or, or this or that. It was “are you happy?” I was, like, go to a public school. Ninety percent of the kids there are gonna tell you they’re not happy. Are you gonna remove them?

HOSTS: [a little snickering] Right.

JOE: But, it, it, basically they, they just went down to that and they never came back out. They never were concerned about anything they saw, any issues, or anything.

HOST: Really?

JOE: So, eighteen months later, they get another anonymous call and they wanna do a, well, in the state of Kentucky, anonymous calls are not probable cause. But much like the mailman, they’re allowed to come knock on your door and say, “Hey, this is our concern” and you tell them to leave, to come back with a warrant and they’ve got to respect that. And so, and it was basically that. And we recorded the conversations with the sheriff and he makes mention of a couple of posts we made on Facebook on how to exercise your rights and how to deal with police, and he’s making these kind of issues, threatening that he’ll get SWAT team involved and all sorts of, uh, you know, and he just basically tells us we don’t have any rights. (9)

HOST: Wow.

JOE: And without any, off of an anonymous call, without any probable cause or imminent danger for him to justify, just on the fact that we weren’t cooperating, we were exercising our rights, he gets a judge, out of Breckinridge County to issue an emergency removal order.

HOST: Ugh.

JOE: And it starts off with him pulling my wife over and taking the two oldest boys, arresting her for disorderly conduct. . .

HOST: Wow.

JOE: . . . for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. But in the recording you can hear that she’s just exercising her rights. “I want to see a warrant. . .”

HOST: Yeah.

JOE: “On what grounds?” “Why did you even pull me over?” He never once says anything. He just says, “Well, I’ve got a . . . and even upon her saying “I’d like to see the warrant,” never once did they, did they handed over one.

So he just takes the kids, uh, and then I show up. I’m at a friend’s and she called me and I said, oh, they’re gonna kill her. They’re gonna shoot her. My wife knows she’s right, and I don’t care how big you are, I don’t care how many guns you have, if she knows she’s in the right, she won’t stop.

And so I had my friend drive me up, and uh, I get out and my wife and the boys are in different squad cars and. . .

HOST: Wow.

JOE: . . . and at first he grabs his gun and goes to get a little threatening with me and I take a step back. By this time, traffic had kind of built up and I was able to get her phone which had the recordings in it. They were trying to get it and it had flung out of her hands and into the grass and they weren’t able to find it, but I was able to get it before they did.

HOST: Good.

JOE: Um, but then he gives me, on top of everything, he gives me 14 hours to drop the other eight kids off or I’ll face eight counts of felony custodial interference, which didn’t make sense to me.

HOST: With your own children? [Laughs]

JOE: Yes, and the fact that what was the imminent danger or probable cause that’s so imminent that my kids had to be emergency removed, that he’s giving me. . . I could have been in Mexico by then. (10)

HOSTS: Right. Yeah.

JOE: I could have (unclear) out every evidence. I could have, I just could have completely gone, aside from any felony charges he threatened me with.

HOST: They’re gonna hit you with a felony based off basically nothing.

JOE: And so, I dropped them off the next morning. I, I don’t want to battle. . . Right. Just because we exercised our rights, uh, and they make it clear, you can hear the recording, he makes it clear, that that, he’s monitoring our Facebook pages, and, uh, he’s very upset about us teaching people their rights and how to deal with police. Very upset.

HOST: How dare you. . . Well, you know there’s that old slogan that don’t steal, the government hates competition, but this is don’t kidnap, the government hates competition.

JOE: Right. So, (garbled due to poor transmission) I didn’t want to have felony charges on top of everything else that we could have been looking at, cause you know the government. Once the government (garbled) resisting arrest, which are just misdemeanor charges. Class A, you know, misdemeanor. So I dropped the other eight kids off, and you know, we walk in and I dropped them off, and, you know, I tried to make it, I mean, we let our kids know clearly what’s going on, and what’s gonna happen. . .

HOST: Right.

JOE: . . . you heard in the recording, let them know, I’m preparing them emotionally and mentally for this. (11) Uh, so, I don’t know how long this is gonna take, uh, Kentucky is one of the worst, uh, has some of the worst corruption in family court and CPS. . .(12)

HOST: Really. . .

JOE: You know, people where no crimes have been charged, nothing has been charged, uh, and they still for years don’t have their kids back. People are like, they’re amazed that we got our kids back after eight weeks, and that breaks my heart. That really does.

HOST: Yeah

JOE: They’re just tearing families apart like this. What we’ve seen, um, there’s so much money involved. There’s so much politics involved. I mean, when I first walked in the courtroom that Thursday, uh, ah, I mean, I’m just walking in the family court and the first question they, they ask me is, uh, “Mr. Naugler. Do you recognize our authority?” (13)


JOE: What. . . Yes! Like, what does that have to do with anything? You have my kids. You have the guns. I’m here. Trust me, I recognize your, imaginary or not, your authority.

HOST: Yeah, your superior firepower.

JOE: That’s right. I mean, really, you walk in and it’s a small little room and on this side of the wall there were like twenty sheriff’s deputies, marshalls, and state police, and on this side of the wall there was like twenty CPS workers. And then you had our lawyer, then us, and the table was just full.

HOST: So this was more about getting you to fall in line more than anything else.

JOE: You know, that, that’s what it was because in this meeting it, and we’re gonna get ahold of the transcripts. Right now our case isn’t closed and it’s almost been two years


JOE: And it’s an (unclear) we’ve had to go through and everything but. . .

HOST: There is no case

End of Part 1, for no particular reason except that’s where I stopped.

  1. And there was the first mistake these wanna-be podcasters made. Information about the Nauglers is simple to find. Their story went viral and ended up being published all over the world.  Ignorance is no excuse. This is sloppy “journalism.” It’s fairly clear from the comments that follow that the hosts didn’t even know that the Naugs have umpty-bazillion children.
  2. Did anyone find that creepy? I found that creepy.
  3. Joe has this ongoing problem when people ask him what he does. They mean: where do you work?  Joe doesn’t work, so he uses this ridiculous “homeschooling” and “homesteading” thing.  He does neither one. If Joe is a quasi-homesteader, then Dave is a quasi-helicopter pilot because he once had a lesson on a simulator.
  4. I’m not sure what to say about this. The Naugler family does not raise or gather or grow any appreciable amount of food. They never have that I can tell.  They’ve butchered one tiny goat.  They’ve grown a very, very few vegetables.  Lots of people live in cities and do more than that.
  5. This not a transcription error. This is what he said.
  6. Do I need to post screen shot after screen shot of Nicole talking about how emotionally damaged the children are from the horrible stay with the horrible statists?  I’m glad to know that none of that is true.
  7. Here’s a little bit about the Alford plea. They do not present you with one of these because somebody got mad about being unfriended on Facebook.  The woman in question refused to allow Joe to get water.  This angered Joe and he has a real tendency to bully women.  Joe conveniently left out the part where he told one of his kids to go to the car and get the gun out of the dash. That is what led directly to the menacing charge (and an Alford plea is in fact a guilty plea) and conviction.
  8. The first time Sheriff Pate came to the Naugler property was because their small daughter had run away and was found walking up the road far from the Shitstead.  Here’s the transcript of that incident, which Nicole helpfully recorded for us so we’d know exactly what happened and who said what.
  9. He never said any such thing. He never implied any such thing.  Here’s the transcript.
  10. He could have been in Mexico but then he would have had eight kids and no working wife.  There was no danger of him going anywhere, ever.
  11. This is a transcript of Joe “preparing them emotionally and mentally.” After reading that, if you still think Joe is telling the truth about all this stuff, then I give up.
  12. I call BS on that one.  Joe makes claims like this without offering the slightest evidence.
  13. If they, in fact, asked him that question (and Joe is prone to alternative facting when it comes to relating the gist of a conversation), they were concerned as hell because Joe and Nicole have hinted a good bit that they wouldn’t mind resorting to violence if they thought their “rights” were being violated. Go back and read the transcripts of the runaway child and the removal of the kids and you’ll see what I mean. Nobody wants to go out to their property ever because you have no idea if you go whether somebody is going to shoot at you or not.

More later when I get to it.

Page 2 is here.

Page 3 is here.