Stolen Children

invokedrights

This is a common narrative from Nicole. She tells the story every chance she gets. This is her version:

The Nauglers were just minding their own business, being nice to everyone and living off-grid and homeschooling their gorgeous children, when for no reason at all ( or because of being “unfriended on Facebook,” or for some other petty reason – it changes) some evil person called CPS and reported them.  It was completely due to vindictiveness on the reporter’s part.

CPS just went ballistic based on that one report and sent Sheriff Pate out to the Blessed Shitstead to take the kids. It just so happened that Nicole was there with the two oldest boys and Joe was at an unspecified location with all the others.  There was no warning whatever.  They had no idea this might happen.

And it was all based on nothing more than one phone call.

This, of course, is not true.

timeline

A different version.

The sheriff came to serve notice about the menacing charge. They weren’t home.

I hate to be the one to break the news to Nicole, but anyone can enter your property who wants to if all they are doing is trying to deliver something, or if they are wanting to talk with you. This morning, some Jehovah’s Witnesses came to our door, briefly.  We didn’t yell at them for “trespassing.”  It’s not illegal for them to do that.

Furthermore, the Shitshack had only three sides.  Anyone could see inside it without much trouble. Nobody had to trespass to see how the Nauglers were living.

CPS then tried to arrange some sort of visit with the Nauglers but were refused twice.

Do you see the position that this placed the CPS people in?  They were dealing with parents who were refusing to talk with them, and who were obviously living in horrid conditions with umpteen children, and who are known to be relatively transient.  What would you think was going on?

The Nauglers have been reported to CPS anywhere from six or seven times (Nicole) to 20 times (Joe).  These reports have come from all sorts of people, including a librarian (so says Nicole). They have occurred in numerous different places, not all one county.

I suppose every time it was due to mean people who suck.

It’s just sort of amazing to me that anyone believes this shit. Dave and I raised a son to adulthood, lived in two different states with him, homeschooled and never once were reported to CPS by anyone.

What are the odds that we’d never be reported while the Nauglers are reported repeatedly if none of us were ever doing anything that would warrant such a report?

My personal opinion is that they were in the midst of doing what they always have done in the past: fleeing.  Joe had left with the younger kids. Nicole was following with the two oldest who were grabbing last-minute stuff.  Pate surprised them.

What Pate had was an emergency custody order.  He didn’t have to show Nicole anything.  He had an order to take those children into protective custody.  They aren’t her possessions. They are children. They have the right to be protected by the state, even if that means being protected from their parents.

At that point, the state had reason to believe that the children were in danger, not because of their living conditions, which were deplorable, but because the Naugler parents were evasive and showing every indication that they were getting ready to run.

The sherif said —-I think it pretty cool how you live but you aren’t cooperating–

I wish she’d learn how to spell “sheriff.”

Is that accurate?  Well, I went and listened.  The recording can be accessed via the Link page.  But I transcribed it for you. There were apparently five people present: Sheriff Pate, a deputy, Nicole and the two oldest boys. I have done my best to attribute the audio to the correct person. Nicole is obvious. Sheriff Pate and the deputy are not so obvious, however, it’s my understanding that Sheriff Pate is the one with the calm, measured tone and the deputy is the one who came in later when Nicole began yelling so much.

Pate: We went out there, and the mother and father said, ‘You can’t speak to them, you can’t do that’, I mean whether they think that it’s BS or not – and a lot of times we get those type of calls – and there’s probably a decent chance that is this type of call, and there’s a decent chance that this thing could be resolved much simpler. . .”

[There is a break here. I suspect this has been edited. Footsteps, rustling.]

Nicole: Yeah, it’s already almost nine o’clock.

[More rustling, footsteps, probably another edit.]

Pate: Do not make it any harder than it’s going to be. . .

Nicole: He knows his rights

Pate: We will end up arresting. . .(garbled)

Nicole: No!

Pate: I’m asking you to maintain your silence and I’m asking you to not interfere with what we’re doing.

Nicole: I don’t have proof that you have proof to take my children.

Pate: I have told you . . .

Nicole: I need proof

Pate: (unclear) on behalf of this county. . .

Nicole: (Yelling) Will you call the state police please? They are trying to kidnap my children.

Pate: We are doing removal orders on your children.

Nicole: Under what grounds?

Pate: The Cabinet is in the process. . .

Nicole: (interrupts) Because they can, because they have the authority, because you are the state, because you guys are the ones with the guns, the ammo, the weapons, is that why?

Pate: I am telling you now –

Nicole: (garbled) might offend people

Pate: I don’t care how you live, where you live, what you live, or that you live off the land, I think it’s kinda pretty cool, but –

Nicole: (yelling) Call the state police and tell them-

Pate: We may call them ourselves –

Nicole: Please do because you are overstepping your bounds

[more rustling, and steps, and probably another edit]

Nicole: You have no grounds for taking my children. On hearsay, you cannot take my children. That does not give you grounds to do anything. That is kidnapping.

Pate: Ma’am, I am asking you to ask your children to comply with a court order that we have

Nicole: I don’t have proof of your court order, so therefore I’m going off of what you said, and that’s not enough.

(to child) Stop. He’s just going to shoot you, cause that’s what cops do – they shoot people that don’t comply

(yelling at Pate) You cannot kidnap my son

Deputy ( I think): Sit down. Sit down!

Nicole: (yelling) You cannot kidnap my son

Deputy: (louder, clearly running out of patience) Ma’am , sit down

Nicole: (yelling) You cannot kidnap my son

Deputy: (loudly, over her yelling) You’re going to be under arrest

Nicole: Shoot me dead! Shoot me dead, but you will not kidnap my son – you will not kidnap my son

Pate: talking in the background, apparently to either the deputy or one of the boys, garbled

Nicole: No! You stop! That is abuse! Stop abusing my children!

At this point, it devolves into both Nicole and the deputy yelling, and Nicole being arrested, all the while yelling for Pate and/or the deputy to shoot her.

Now then, it’s quite clear that Pate was very patiently trying to explain to Nicole that his personal opinion about her lifestyle was not why he was there, that he was doing exactly what his job required, that the court had issued an order, and that it had nothing to do with her lifestyle “offending” him (which was her accusation).  He was saying what most of us have said all along – that we have no problem with people who choose to live off-grid, or “homestead,” or homeschool, or even with people who have tin-foil-hat-like political ideas and think 9/11 was a hoax or that cops are evil.  We have a problem with people who neglect their children and beg for money online.

In addition, she carries on incessantly in the video about the children, as though the two boys being taken were five years old. She yells at them that the police are going to shoot them.  She accused Pate of “abusing” them.

Those were not small children. They were her two oldest boys, teenagers. Believe me, nobody wants anyone else’s teenagers.  Really, they don’t.

But Nicole is riding this horse again because she wants us to understand that the evil, awful state, that horrible CPS, only wants beautiful “unabused” children because they are selling those children in order to make money for the state.

Her remarks in the original screen shot were about a piece describing how an abused child was ignored even though there were multiple reports.  The abused children are ignored because they aren’t valuable, don’t you know. The state wants children like her perfect ones because they have an easier time selling those kids.

And furthermore, they need funding. CPS needs money. So CPS ignores abused children, hoping they will be killed, so they can get more money by claiming they don’t have enough.

She actually believes this.

She believes that an entire agency of the state that exists in fifty different incarnations, composed of thousands of people, actively and purposefully ignores abused children in the hopes that they will be killed so the agency can get money, and that they actively steal beautiful, perfect children like hers to sell.

I tried to find some data about how many CPS workers there are in the US.  The most I could find with a quick search was that in Texas alone, there are “thousands.”  That means more than 2000 in one state.  And of course, there would be more in larger states and fewer in smaller states, but we’re talking here about tens of thousands of people.

And all these tens of thousands of people are colluding to steal some children and ignore other children so they will be killed, for money, not for themselves, but for the state.

She actually believes this.

return

And here’s a comment.

. . . they’ll keep the ones who are. . .

That’s interesting.

I wonder why they didn’t.

 

58 thoughts on “Stolen Children”

  1. That sheriff was extremely patient with Nicole. I read a quote last night in the book “Humans of New York.” It said

    “Just because you’re an adult doesn’t mean you’re grown up. Growing up means being patient, holding your temper, cutting out the self-pity, and quitting with the righteous indignation.”

    “Why do so many people seem to love righteous indignation?”

    “Because if you can prove your a victim, then all rules are off. You can lash out at people. You don’t have to be accountable for anything.”

    Nicole is on a mission to prove she’s a victim.

  2. So, if you follow Nicole’s logic, her kids were not kept because they are not beautiful or healthy but abused? Am I getting that right?

  3. If one keeps listening to the tape, you hear Joe tell the remaining 8 children, the youngest and most vulnerable 8 children, that he’s allowing the state to “kidnap” them because if he doesn’t, he’ll be arrested.

    THAT is abuse. Emotional abuse. Goddamnit! That is abuse.

    Based on what I heard on THEIR recording, they both emotionally abused those children that day. Nicole by telling them the sheriff would shoot them, Joe by informing the rest he was going to allow the state to kidnap them to save his own fat ass. I can only wonder if it continues now on a daily basis.

  4. Wacko Nicole and her happy new year to all and here is our PayPal button. Here she is again hoping the new people haven’t followed the story long enough to know the facts.
    She is as dumb as a rock to believe the things she believes.
    I agree 100% with Josie. The recording highlights her rabid abuse of her offspring.
    Can you even imagine the fear and anxiety these parents put into their own children? What mother yells shoot me in front of her kids?
    What father tells little ones they will be kidnapped now?
    Thank you Sally for transcribing the tape. That was very helpful!

  5. Joe also told the younger ones to be reverent. In other words keep their mouths shut and do not say anything about what goes on at home.

    I am sure those kids are scared to death to even breathe the wrong way around him especially when he is drunk. Nicole is an ass to allow him to go on his rampages when he is drunk screaming and yelling at the kids. But she only sees him as a loving, caring and playful daddy.*insert eye roll here*

    POS these two are.

  6. Joe said on some podcast that they were having a “sleepover” at a “friend’s house” that night. So that’s where the rest of the family was.

  7. Wonder why my kids haven’t been taken. Their healthy and beautiful kids. Oh yeah they haven’t been taken because there is no reason at all to take them.

  8. Mambo # 1

    An anonymous call? There was never an anonymous call. Even though the law protects the identity of the caller Nicole knew who called. Nicole herself not only wrote that she knew who called she even posted the text messages between herself and the woman/victim of Joe’s menacing. In those messages the woman informed Nicole that she had contacted the state regarding the children because Joe had the children with him when he menaced her and she was worried for the children’s safety.

    Just another boldfaced lie from Nicole.

  9. This reminds me of Lynne Forrest’s article (it’s really old) called, “The Three Faces of Victim – An Overview of the Drama Triangle”.

    It’s based on Stephen Karpman’s paper published in 1968. Karpman MD, Stephen (1968). “Fairy tales and script drama analysis”. Transactional Analysis Bulletin. 26 (7): 39–43.

    Oh, maybe it’s time to spend some holiday money. https://www.karpmandramatriangle.com/

    Here’s a pdf of a lecture he gave in 2007. http://karpmandramatriangle.com/pdf/thenewdramatriangles.pdf

  10. Joe said on some podcast that they were having a “sleepover” at a “friend’s house” that night.

    There are some things I simply don’t believe. You know, like CPS purposely leaving abused kids in place so they will be killed.

    And that.

  11. Nicole endangered the boys that day in my opinion.

    Teen aged boys are not known for their flawless rational judgement or their lack of compulsive behavior.

    Teen boys….. even really good, really reliable teens boys…..do stupid shit. They take chances they shouldn’t, they do shit they know they shouldn’t. Teen girls do, too. No sexism meant. But teen boys, especially, have an attraction to being a hero, to righting wrongs, being the white knight, being regarded with respect for their strength, their clever thinking, their ability to protect and provide. (look how proud Q. looks of the beautiful outdoor kitchen he built….those virtues are so close to a teen boy’s sense of self worth.)

    Nicole losing her shit like that, and screaming her head off that they were all about to be shot….endangered those boys. It would not be beyond the reasonable scope of teenaged bravado for the boys to compulsively fight back. God knows she’s programmed them to believe the police will kill them. And she’s taught them to use guns.

    What in the hell would have happened if one of those boys decided that the right thing to do was to try to physically defend his pregnant mother with lethal force? What if one of them had gone for an officer’s firearm? Think of how those boys have been indoctrinated. Think of what they’ve been told all their lives and how little contact they’ve had with any other influences than their parent’s paranoid mindset.

    It’s TERRIFYING to think of what could have happened if the boys were half as nuts as their fruitcake mother. It’s not that far fetched, and from the boy’s perspective would have been utterly understandable. They have been raised to see law enforcement as the enemy, to view them as evil and violent beyond redemption. Nicole is so fortunate they didn’t react. It could have been such a tragedy.

    Nicole plays an insanely dangerous game instilling those beliefs in her kids. When you teach your kids that government and law enforcement are wrong….and that those who oppose them are right…where the hell do you think that leads? What kind of people will your children become involved with later in life? Who will they trust to call for help if they need help? Where’s the line between the laws you need to follow and the laws you can ignore? Where’s the line between good people who break the law, and bad people who break the law?

    She’s setting these kids up to get themselves into terrible, terrible, dangerous situations later on. Scares the hell out of me for them. Again…no forethought. Again…her own worst enemy.

    And yes, I consider that abuse.

    The one hope I have listening to the recordings….is that the boys reacted calmly, cooperatively, and reasonably. Pretty maturely for teen boys, actually. Far more maturely than their mother or father. It gives me hope that they know something is wrong with their parent’s thinking. If they were truly buying into their parent’s crap, they probably would have done more to save themselves from “the monsters who were going to kidnap, sell, and murder” them.

    I recently watched Nicole’s videos of “talking with the older children about unschooling” and I noticed something. The kids don’t focus on her. They laugh at her. They realize she’s trying to put on a dog and pony show with her video, and they passively resist by hamming it up and largely ignoring her questions. They engage with each other, but they don’t engage with her….there’s an intentional lack of connection or something. Emotional distance, tuning out. At least that how it comes across to me.

    And maybe I’m imagining it. Maybe that’s all teens. I think it’s fair to say all teens sometimes tune out and ignore their mothers.

    But I have to say, watching the older kids closely the past few years on her blog….I get the impression that those older kids often think their folks are as loonie as we do.

    As tired of Nicole and Joe’s drama and chaos and shit as we are? I bet those kids are a hundred times more exhausted from it than we could ever be.

    I think they love their folks. I think they love a lot of things about their home and their lives. Kids clearly love each other. But I think their folk’s constant need to perpetuate drama….and all the fighting of invisible enemies…. makes them absolutely weary. I think the paranoia, the fights against the law, being outsiders, being at odds with the rest of society all the fucking time….gets really fucking old and it erodes their sense of self worth.

    Which do you pick?

    A familiar life with people you know, with the lifestyle you’ve known, where you know your opinions must conform to “fighting the man, fighting the neighbors, fighting the cops, fighting anonymous people on the internet” and the chaos and drama that will never end…

    Or…

    A foreign life you’ve been taught to fear…where you don’t feel you fit in, and where you don’t have the first clue how to find your way or who to ask for help.

    You can’t win either way.

  12. I’ve always wondered who Nicole was yelping at to call the state police. There may have been someone there, of course as a passerby who would have slowed to watch the show, but I tend to think it was primarily for the recording.

    I tend agree with Sally that they were very likely skipping town but got caught that day. They had had a bad winter just prior, Joe got himself into more trouble than he had bargained for by stealing water, and they probably understood that they had worn out their welcome. That they are still there and not by their own wishes is terribly amusing to me, especially after they got called on their un-penned livestock causing damage and their sewage solutions were not authentic or remotely adequate.

    I’m not going to say whether Nicole is mentally healthy or not. One could make a reasonable case from her behavior in all venues and conclude mental health concerns or manipulative shrewdness. But her behavior is very much like a few wires are crossed. I can only say of Joe that he is doing absolutely nothing for his family except act like a flippin’ bully gasbag.

  13. I believe in the audio Nicole tells the sheriff they are out of town doing a job.

    LMAO one does not know what lie the other is telling. Guess they are not smart enough to get together ahead of time and plan out a story. Or if they do then they are not smart enough to remember the story. I would guess when one tells the story different so many times they have a hard time trying to keep lies straight.

  14. Call me mean if you want, BUT Nicole and Jo’s kiddos just aren’t that cute imo
    I for one would hate to be a foster parent, never mind adopting one of them.
    Jo and Nicole have already ruined those kids and I believe in bad blood!

  15. Your blog about the Kane’s has been one that has stuck with me the most. An absolute waste of a young life that did not need to happen. So very sad.

  16. The way the sheriff handled the situation that day was the epitome of professionalism. He was calm and collected while executing his duty. He showed genuine concern for the safety of the children, himself, his subordinate(s) and even Mrs Naugler. There were many things he could have done differently and legally, but he chose the safe and patient path.

    There was an emergency protective order issued by the court. Such an order does not need to be served on the parent(s) at that time. Such an order does need to be executed however by the authorities. The sheriff did his job with dignity.

    The fact that there is still an ongoing dependency, abuse, neglect case almost two years later speaks volumes as to the credibility of the Nauglers. The fact that the Nauglers have either published, commented, spoken on the radio or news programs and presented several conflicting and often contradicting sets of facts should be a red flag as to their credibility.

  17. “That’s why healthy children are seized and abused children are left, because to the state healthy ones are worth more than abused ones.”

    Her healthy, non abused children were returned. What’s her logic in her statement?

    Having been around since the viral story, the audio link is a heavily edited one. I recall an unedited version on the internet. If one can listen, there is quite a bit of discussion between Nicole and Sheriff Pate at the beginning. Sheriff Pate’s calm and patience is notable, especially in the volatile situation that Nicole was escalating. He explained several times to Nicole, the circumstances and what was going to happen.

    If Nicole is challenging the transcript and audio, then perhaps an unedited version is available. And people might be able to listen and have their own conclusions.

    I applauded Sheriff Pate back then in May 2015 when I heard the audio, and I still do. It’s deplorable that Nicole’s behavior may have put her sons at risk, escalating into a volatile situation that didn’t have to be. I think I even heard one of the boys trying to calm her down. As I’ve heard in another audio/video, too.

    This wasn’t their first encounter with a CPS report. According to Joe, I think he stated about 20 times, or every year to year and a half. Different locations, different reporters. It may well be the first time that CPS actually caught up with them, and maybe they eluded time and time before. All one has to do is to view the photos from May 2015, to understand the concern CPS had for the children in following up on the reporter call.

  18. What I don’t get is how the state wants all these unabused children because they are worth so much money, and, yet, I can’t find someone to pay to watch mine on Tuesday night so whatshisface and I can go to dinner at a restaurant with cloth napkins and a movie that isn’t animated.

  19. When I first heard that audio after it all went down, it struck me that the authorities would have to be very cautious and quick-acting because of the very real possibility of a violent response from within the compound. The uttered words of the mother asking to be shot indicate a high probability of that scenario playing out.

  20. Joe sent me that highly edited audio during our correspondence. I advised him that it was edited and spun and his response was that it didn’t change the basic principles.

    That is wholly untrue. Any thinking person can listen to the original audio and quickly discern that they have cherry-picked and attempted to spin the truth. The original audio recording on “saveourfamily” no longer exists. The website itself no longer exists.

    However . . . (and this cracks me up) copies were made of the original audios.

    Guess what? Given the “viral” nature of this debacle, they’re available and something tells me that you’ll be getting links to them soon. Copies of these should be made for the blog readers to make their own decisions.

    Funny shit. 😉

  21. That audio clip on the links page is like a Reader’s Digest version – the essence is there, but a lot has been omitted. The same person who posted it also posted a fuller version – more than twice as long – which can be found here:

    https://youtu.be/N53cNr-79Yg

    Be aware that this longer version starts in the middle of the drama – when Joe shows up – and then we get his speech to the kids (I have to agree with Josie; I’ve always thought Joe’s speaking to the children this way and in these circumstances is appalling, even – maybe especially – if one considers that he is choosing his words primarily for the benefit of his soon-to-be-viral recording).

    After Joe’s speech there’s a long gap with nothing but some clicking noises; fast forward to 10:03 and the audio resumes at the beginning of the encounter, presumably as Sheriff Pate first talks to Nicole.

    Contrary to what that lovely mirror page asserts, the shorter audio is in my opinion a pretty good representation of how the conversation proceeded and Sally’s transcription captures that audio accurately.

  22. Yup. Sovereign Citizen BS. I smelled it on the Ns from all the way over here. Nicole’s “Shoot me dead!” is just like LaVoy Finicum’s “You’re gonna have to shoot me!”

    I do not understand these people and it disturbs me greatly that there are so many of them.

  23. One of my best friends was vindictively reported to CPS by an old neighbor. She didn’t fight CPS, and let the agent in. The report was closed right away. That’s what you do when there’s an unfounded report.

    She knew who it was because the old neighbor gloated about it. That neighbor ended up losing custody of all of her kids when her oldest child called CPS in desperation. That case made local news, including that it was the oldest child who called. When that lady refused to let CPS in, the cops were called. What could have been the kids removed pending a parenting plan ended with her being arrested, and more information being discovered, resulting in a jail sentence that won’t end until after her youngest is 18, and the kids were adopted out.

    Moral of the true stories: Don’t fight CPS. You will NEVER win. Just ass-kiss, do what they say, and get them out of your life.

    States try so hard to keep kids with biological parents that adoptions have actually been overturned when biological parents come back into the picture. If the state wants to steal kids and sell them, why does that happen?

  24. I follow the blog, but this post was brought to my attention first by mirrors and Nikki and not my normal methods.

    I find it hilarious that they are saying this is false. She must think people are stupid.

    1) the audio is linked here. Go listen to it.

    2) I listened, like everyone else, when the audio was first shared, in the very beginning, and this transcript is pretty much how I remember it without having to go listen to it again.

    3) I think it’s funny how Nikki is trying to discredit this by saying it’s edited. Read … Sally transcripts mention how it’s sounds like it was edited.

    I know why Sally linked to the audio she did after all this time it’s the only audio left on the net. Or at least that is why I believe she linked to it.

    Instead of just trying to discredit the thing as completely false and made up as if people can’t hear for themselves Nikki should just re-post or make it known where the complete audio is available for people to hear or themselves.

    That audio is incomplete. It was edited. Here is the complete audio. And be done with it.

  25. And just to add.

    Remember the only reason there is any audio version, edited or not, on the net is because Nikki and Joe shared it to beginning with. … they were the ones that put it out there to start.

    All they have to do is point people to where the original (full) version they originally shared. Or if they took it down re-upload it. It’s an easy fix really.

    If the original that they upload is still out there all they have to do is link to it. It would take a minute or less of their time, because they know exactly where to find it. And the rant about this being altered and fake would be put to rest easily.

    Nikki and Joe number one complaint of this blog is no facts, just spinning and editing the truth. This is one time they could very easily show how this blog spins and edits the truth by linking to the original audio Nikki and Joe shared to start with. … Remember the only reason there is any version of this audio on the net is because Nikki and Joe shared it.

  26. She’s already saying that the transcript is wrong. And that she’ll be posting a blog about it cause she’s been working on the blog that is going to talk about that day I guess.

    They edit everything, but there are tons of people who heared the original.

  27. So Nicole is upset, she doesn’t like how you transcribed the audio and she’s going to post the real truth. I won’t hold my breath.

  28. From whiny nicnaug
    Quoted :
    It was brought to my attention that some people have improperly transcribed the audio between the sheriff and I.

    I had been working on a blog about the first 24 hours and didn’t have time to finish. I should be ready soon. Probably next Wednesday. Then you can have the real story.

    But the audio linked was done by someone other than myself and is labeled “Edited”.

    This is why I tell people not to take these people seriously. They have very little of the actual information and what they do have is manipulated and twisted. They lack any credibility. They are not a fact site, even if they claim to be one.

    End quote

    Go take care of your kids, stop eating gyros and fries.

  29. I hope you are right Al. I think everyone should get to hear the original version of the audio. I did, and I think Sally transcribed it accurately. I wish I had made a copy to keep for myself.

    Nikki’s recent post made me cringe. I cannot stand it when people say or do something and then in the face of evidence that it did transpire, still stand and say, no it did not. She really does live in some sort of cosmic imaginary world.

    Per Nikki- “This is why I tell people not to take these people seriously. They have very little of the actual information and what they do have is manipulated and twisted. They lack any credibility. They are not a fact site, even if they claim to be one.”

    Most of what is shared in this blog is Nikki’s own words. Screenshots prove that. The original audio proved what went on during her arrest and the removal of the children.

  30. This is the first time I’ve listened to the recording. She sounds bat shit crazy! It really bothers me how anti cop she is. My dad is a retired police officer out of NYC. She should know who you gotta call when there’s trouble. I would love to see her NOT call the police when she has an issue with I don’t know her neighbor farting or something.
    Lastly-In most states it takes A LOT to get your kids taken away. A lot. In the state I live in they have to be in immediate danger and found to be in immediate danger.

  31. Beezy, I’ve gotta disagree with you, there. I think the kids are adorable. Hell, I think all kids are beautiful. Little O. is my absolute favorite. She seems like such a tough little firecracker. I’m also especially fond of Q. He seems like such a hard-working, kind boy. I like all of the kids. I don’t like what their parents teach them about dealing with society….but the kids themselves, independent of the bad situation they’re in… are just lovely.

    Most of what pisses me off so much about Nicole and Joe…is that they’re not doing right by those kids, and not helping them to strive for a future that matches their potential. So much talent is being wasted and sacrificed for their parent’s weird ideas. Stunting the intellectual/social/independence development of such lovely kids is criminal, imo. Having no conscience about putting the kid’s needs last is just reprehensible to me.

    Selfish, ugly, stupid parents. Beautiful kids.

  32. Concerning Nicole’s absurd assertions regarding the law of the land, its enforcers, and intentions regarding her children, imagine what would happen if she made reasonable and honest statements. She would lose a likely equally destitute following, the attention from that group, and the controversy that she believes drives an important source of income–cyberbegging. However, as the place she lives in is so disgusting and that the principal blame for her living conditions lie with her and her absolutely idle husband, reasonable statements would require an uncharacteristic breath of honesty and self-awareness that will not happen. She would far prefer to blame others for her almost absolute failure of a life and do so, in part, with absurd, nutty, unreasonable, and inflammatory statements and conclusions.

  33. Don’t fight CPS. You will NEVER win. Just ass-kiss, do what they say, and get them out of your life.

    Honestly, why should anyone have to “ass kiss”? Just be honest. Understand that they are there because they are concerned. Show them they have no reason to be concerned.

    Nicole is a textbook example of what not to do, but this is the way she handles every interpersonal relationship she has, it seems. Clipped, short, rude. She’s that way even to her supporters online.

  34. I wonder if the boys didn’t go ballistic and get into a melee with the sheriffs was because they’ve seen their mom go act like that before? I don’t think that’s the first time that Nicole has gotten all theatrical and abusive going off like that. This time I think most of it was for the purpose of the recording how her rights were being violated. It was really not about her children. It was all about her grandstanding while making herself out as a victim of the evil government. How many times did she say, “I know my rights” and then screaming “help” into thin air.

    Can you imagine how she acts when her and Joe get into it? I’m sure the kids have seen that enough that they blow her unbalanced temper tantrums off.

  35. It was the way Joe talked to his kids in that recording that led me to believe he is an abusive father.

    No loving father, who places the emotions and well being of his children above his own desires, would talk to his children like that. Their mother and two older brothers had just been taken by the evil government…and the little kids were being told by Dad that he was going to just turn them over to strangers!!!! For freaks sake Joe. Who is that disconnected from their own kids except abusers?

    It also seems from the recording that the kids were playing among a group of other kids at the home of a friend of the family when Joe made the announcement in front of everyone. Joe calls the “Naugler” kids to come sit down. Heaven forbid he should ask to talk to his kids in private. Maybe hold the little ones in his lap and talk in a loving way, try to help them feel safer at the loss of their mom and the idea of being kidnapped… sheesh…who am I kidding. That would involve him having to consider the feelings of his children instead of his own needs.

    Such a sad situation those kids are in. Their parents are obsessed with fighting the world – all the while losing their own family in the conflict.
    I hope the best for all of them.
    I hope those kids are loving and supporting of each other. Everyone needs love and kindness and someone to listen. I don’t see them getting that from being with their dad at home all day when mom is at work. And mom is busy fighting even when she is home.

  36. An ex and his ex had a contentious child custody case, with allegations from the mother’s side against the father that were unfounded against the father, but ended up being the exact specific charges her own brother was found guilty of and had to register as a sex offender over. He skipped out on registering, which made him a concern since he was obsessed with the little girl. To protect the child from her mother’s brother as well as the mother who was very quickly shown to be willing to make false allegations, the child was ordered into CPS. It was a disaster of a case and a child should not have been removed from her father without allegations against the father. But they were concerned the mother and her brother might try to go after the first until they could find the brother and take him into custody. The father and I had nowhere else to live but the residence the mother knew about. So she was ordered into custody for her protection from a sex offender who had victimized her and was obsessed with her. (He was eventually found, and since he victimized a few other girls, he’s in jail still. I think he qualifies for parole in 2020. I haven’t had an update in a decade.)

    Do you want to know what we did when we got the call that we needed to take her to the CPS office? Yes, we were called instead of a social worker appearing on the doorstep. They knew we weren’t runners, and trusted us to bring her in. I don’t know if it would have been harder to have someone take her from our house. I think that would have been easier. Every fiber of my being wanted to run with her. It took more willpower to pack some things for her and come up with a story to tell her, and then load her in the car and walk her in.

    We told the child that everything will be okay, and tried to make it sound like a big adventure, so she wouldn’t be scared. We came up with a big story about pirates to try to put her at ease. We were shattered, but weren’t going to show that to her. We weren’t going to terrify her. She’d been through enough in life.

    This makes Nicole and Joe’s actions less understandable. What benefit was there in traumatizing their kids?

  37. I thought the Nauglers were going to take their life back in 2017? If more criminal charges , court dates and online antics that go over the top are taking your life back, I would hate to see what happens when you’re not trying.

    For Pete’s sake Joe and Nicole, just get the hell off line and tend to your children. You’re acting like 12 year olds.

    As for the recordings, she seemed more concerned about her rights and her phone than she did about her kids welfare.

    Nicole is a deeply troubled woman. It’s too bad she does not realise this.

  38. The interesting thing is that not one person has commented on her post about this. And the only person who “liked” it? Why Charles, of course…or errr, um Nic herself!

  39. I’m listening to #3 that I linked. The edited audio you have has some from #1, and some from #3.

  40. I too disagree with Beezy. I think the Naugler children are all beautiful children and have great potential if given the proper guidance. The only thing holding them back is the sorry pair of parents they have.

  41. Josie, what Joe did says to the kids that he’ll throw them under the bus to save himself. If I thought someone was genuinely trying to kidnap my child, I’d die defending her. I wouldn’t hand her over to save my own skin. I wonder how many of those kids think that Joe’s a great dad for saving himself and letting them go without a fight. Nicole, at least, fought. Not saying she should have, but if she genuinely believes they were being kidnapped (she’s twisted shit so much in her mind that she might believe it), at least she fought.

    DeNauglified, Nicole believes in guns, not laws. She thinks laws impede on her rights. If someone’s doing something you don’t like, that’s what guns are for. If she was capable of rational thought, she’d realize the law has more and bigger guns, meaning, by her own reasoning, that “the law” gets to set the rules.

    I wonder if the older boys being so calm is a result of them remembering calmer times, or even wanting to be taken away. They’re the ones who set up the old shack into their own person domain when the new shed was put on the property, and they tried organizing it like a home. I think part of them misses as real home.

    Sculder&Mully, I don’t think Nicole is mentally ill. I think she’s repeated her own lies so much that she’s convinced herself that they’re true. And she’s acting and reacting as if her lies are true. She’s far from the only rock in the box who has her beliefs. She just managed to be the rock that got media attention.

    Beezy and DeNauglified, I think you both have some points. The kids are cute kids, but I think it would be hard finding people to want to adopt them all, or at least the youngers, because some of those kids have been so indoctrinated into those beliefs that the amount of work it would take to undo the damage is probably immense. Those kids have been raised to believe that everyone aside from their parents want to kill them. How many people looking to adopt would really want to pick kids who don’t know how to trust people because they were actively taught the opposite? Those kids have been taught authority is BAD, rules are BAD, education is BAD. How overwhelming! The older kids seem to have remembered life in the before-times, and would probably be keener to get away if they didn’t feel like they had to stay there for the youngers. Nicole and Joe have really fucked those kids up and fucked them over, and it’s so unfair to those kids!

    Sally, ass-kissing doesn’t mean not being honest. If they want to see the fridge, show them with a smile on your face and ask if they’d like to see the cabinets too. If they want to see the kids’ sleeping place, show it with all the sweetness you can muster. Ass-kissing doesn’t mean you’re in the wrong or are lying. It means going above and beyond what they expect to show them there’s nothing to hide, asking how high when told to jump.

    bea, what recording has Joe calling the kids? That’s one I haven’t heard, though I’ve seen it referenced.

  42. The word stolen used in regards to the children, by Nicole, bothers me. That which you do not own, can not be stolen. The children, even though they are children, are autonomous human beings. They are not processions.

  43. So, I won’t go into depth here- but when my children were rightfully taken from me because of my poor living situation, one of the reasons the return of my youngest was expedited was that the foster parents wanted to adopt her. They were a very well off couple who lived in a lovely neighborhood and had been led to believe by CPS that she would be adoptable. The transition to reunification and CWS workers remedied this misinformation. They were devastated, and honestly I was sad for them. Here they had taken care of my daughter while she was in foster care, and had formed an attachment to her under implied circumstances that were not their fault. Now please, no one think that I did not want my children back. Nothing would be further from the truth, but I can truly say that I felt genuinely sympathetic for their hurt, even as I rejoiced my baby’s homecoming.
    The only reason I’m telling anyone this is because obviously the evil government could have “sold” my gorgeous little girl, but they chose to return her to me. She is now a grown, beautiful woman. I thank God every day that the state slapped sense into me, but allowed me a second chance.
    Oh, and my daughter was never abused. It’s one of the reasons I got her back, and legal custody returned quickly. Never had to kiss booty, just be honest and transparent. Admit your shortcomings and learn what needs to change. It isn’t magic. Ego is so less important than your children.

  44. Dang it. Sally, I think I just sent you a message that was meant to be a comment. If you wouldn’t mind posting it I’d be grateful. That was a lot of thumb typing!

    [Admin: Here. I’ll just add it in here.]

    I have to comment on a comment above regarding adoption. A legally-conducted adoption cannot under any circumstances be overturned. There is a small chance that one in which improprieties are later discovered could be; there was a tragic story in the last couple of years where this happened in Tennessee I believe. That is a one-in-a-billion story though.

    My kids are adopted. I have birth certificates with my name listed as their mother and my husband’s as their father. (As a scientist, I honestly find this *slightly* odd because a birth certificate seems to me to be a record of a birth and not a statement of who the parents are). However, I’m damned glad that I have these records.

    An adoption process can certainly be disrupted, especially in the case of foster-to-adopt, but having it overturned is exceedingly rare. I want people to know this in case anyone is considering adoption. It’s not a situation where you just lose your kids all of the sudden. You are their parents in the eyes of the law.

  45. I just listened to the longer audio in a comment upthread. Whew. She sounds manically unhinged.

    At one point, Sheriff Pate is trying to explain why police officers follow up on complaints. He goes on to give a hypothetical situation of a man severely beating his child and the mom calling to report the incident. Sheriff Pate asks Nicole if she could see why a police officer would be needed to follow up on those types of calls for the safety of children. Nicole responds by repeating several times that she would not ever call the police for assistance. She doubles down and says if her child was being abused she would intervene, but she would never call the police.

    But … it’s okay for her mouth breathing, Neanderthal husband to piss all over himself and call the police multiple times because he’s too scared to walk out of his wife’s shop? What happened to our noble sovereign citizens? Man to man wasn’t good enough odds for Joe to flap his fat lips? He’s only a super MMA wrestler when he’s picking on women and children? Pathetic.

  46. I listened for the first time today, the audio of Joe talking to those kids. Telling them they are being kidnapped by the state. That he has to hand them over, or he goes to jail.
    Those poor babies. Breaks my heart. The worst part, is there was no comforting words. No “I love you” “I will fight for you”.
    If my babies were to be taken, I would make sure (with words and actions) they know how much I love them, want them, and would fight for them. Not once did Joe tell them they were loved. Just to keep their mouths shut and know their rights.

  47. My ego, my pride, my anything, falls to the end of the line when my son’s well being is at issue. This is not the case with Joe and Nicole, who always put themselves first. Easy example: why do mom & dad get the platform bed and real mattress, while the children had to share a piece of plywood? Why did mom & dad abandon the property and their animals when the kids were taken? Because their source of free labor was gone. Why do the parents only finally provide more than a plastic bucket for bathroom purposes when it’s that or a jail sentence/or fine? Because providing a decent home for the kids/animals is not their priority.

  48. I think Joe was expecting an outburst of protest and crying from the children when he announced mom was in jail, the two older ones were kidnapped and the rest of the kids would be kidnapped the next morning “under the force of a gun.” I think that was the purpose
    of him making a recording of it. Too bad he didn’t get the reaction he thought he’d get. Hey, that’s a great idea! Let’s use the kids as tools to try to show how evil the government is! Using them as pawns will help us go viral and while we’re at it let’s get a Gofundme page up ASAP so people who sympathize with us can donate. Disgusting!

    I wasn’t surprised to hear Joe tell the kids ” You know why we live the way we do.” It doesn’t have anything to do with being minimalists, or back to basic homesteaders. They live the way they do because they are unable to live the in a civil society. They’ve relegated their children to living in horrid conditions because they are constantly looking for conflict to feed their need to be seen as victims. Their gig is up now.

  49. MyNameGoesHere, the case I’m most specifically thinking of had a biological father who abandoned a child, and his rights were terminated per state law when he got a prison sentence exceeding 10 years. He didn’t contest this at the time, and refused to participate in any hearings or anything. He walked entirely. When he later got the sentence reduced to 7.5 years after participating in a double-homicide trial, he decided THEN to contest the adoption, which was overturned on the technicality that the grounds for termination of parental rights, being a sentence over 10 years, no longer applied. And he won. He won so hard that there wasn’t even a best interest hearing. The child was ripped from her home when she was 9, where she’d lived since she was an infant, and entirely severed from the only life she knew, literally on a few hours of notice, to go live with someone who never even tried to send her a birthday card in all those years. No attempts to contact her. This case made national media, and the one phone call she was allowed to make to her parents who raised her was aired, and it’s soul-crushing.

    The adoption itself was lawful at the time it happened, and a loophole was used that wasn’t accounted for in the current laws (sentences getting reduced down the road to below the threshold), and still hasn’t been addressed.

  50. Bumpkin,

    I tend to agree with you that the real reason the Nauglers live as they do has nothing to do with ideology. It is because, as you so aptly said, they are unable to live in a civil society. Nothing to do with ideology, rather it has more to do with an allergy to work, responsibility, and accountability. It also has to do with their very strong attraction to luxuriating when the parents have the means as when the kids were placed in foster homes and the parents, with a lot of dough, abandoned their compound to stay in a hotel. Personally, I think it was a dream come true for Joe and Nicole.

  51. “And that she’ll be posting a blog about it cause she’s been working on the blog that is going to talk about that day I guess.”

    She’s had 610 days to work on that blog. In that amount of time an Asian elephant will be on the verge of birthing her calf (617 days on average) and an African elephant will be nearing the final month (647 days on average).

    But Nicole, who has enough time to post all kinds of stuff while at work, can’t be bothered to peck out and post that blog. Interesting.

  52. Kaylee, I believe that we are both referring to the McCaul case, in which the biological father’s rights were improperly terminated; thus the adoption was illegal. It was not at all a technicality, and provides yet further evidence that CPS’s primary goal is reunification.

    There are a number of very sketchy details about that particular case. I think McCaul made a horrible decision in pursuing it. However, the adoptive family also made a number of terrible decisions on the assumption that they would win. In the end, nobody won, least of all the child.

    Regardless, my point remains. That was a one-in-a-billion case. Legal adoptions are not overturned, ever.

  53. Joe took great care in choosing his words when he was speaking to his terrified children. He used the most sensational words he could muster so when the story went “viral” , the words, “kidnapped”, etc would be picked up and used in the headlines to promote his story, his pathetic claim to fame, and they were. Joe, you are a pig. Nicole , you are just as culpable and abusive as your piggy husband. Her crying out in the audio tapes was not because she loves her children or because she was distressed about their welfare. It was all for the “show”. Yeah know, for when they finally got their chance to be celebrities. To put themselves out there and exploit their children’s plight for begging bucks. And, it worked! They got the biggest windfall in their pathetic grifting careers! Going “viral” is all Joe and Nicole cared about. I hate to think what these two are going to do to their kids next so the can go “viral” again and cash in.

  54. MNGH, he thoroughly abandoned the child. She was treated as inanimate property by the states, and denied a best interest hearing. She was treated like shit. I can’t get into it publicly, but I have additional information on the case since it collided with my real life, and no, I never met the Hodgins. The child was ABANDONED. He never made any attempt to contact her prior to tearing her from her family. There’s a sealed deposition I wish was public. The child’s best interests didn’t matter. The Naugler kids’ best interests don’t matter. They’re just property to be pissed on my their genetic matches.

  55. I haven’t disagreed at all with the McCaul case not being in the best interests of the child. However I feel about Mr. McCaul personally, adoptions must be legal, and woe betide those who try to get someone illegally TPR’d.

    I don’t have access to any secret files but there are a number of public documents with timelines that in my view clearly demonstrate some shady actions by the adoptive family. McCaul seems like a scumbag who may be likely to run afoul of the law again, but he is still entitled to due process. I will never, ever support illegal adoptions regardless of which party appears to smell better.

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