Read this again.

CPS has petitioned to close. Family court just keeps resetting us. . .

That bad, bad Family Court.  Why do they “keep resetting” the Naugler case, in spite of the nice people at CPS petitioning the Court to close the case.  Why?

. . .so that we cannot release the transcripts from court and expose the bullshit.

Oh, I see. The Nauglers are whistleblowers. They are gonna tell us all the shit so we can be properly outraged because the state of Kentucky removed their children from the three-sided lean-to where they’d spent a whole winter, living in conditions that would make a poor person in rural Africa feel sorry for them.

And the Family Court is afraid of this, so the Court won’t close the case in order to stop the fearless intrepid Nauglers from informing the world about the evils of Child Protective Services.

And government.

And the police.

And the neighbors.

But maybe that’s not the whole story.

legal custody

So they have “full legal custody.”  And these visits from CPS are just “procedural.”

This, of course, really says nothing. What in the hell is “procedural”?

When our son was a minor, we had “full legal custody” of him. You know, for 18 complete years. We could take him anywhere, move anywhere, and we never had to report to anyone about anything. We put him in school. We took him out of school. We put him back in school again. We signed for him to have surgery. We took him to the dentist.

All that “full legal custody” stuff.

And nobody from CPS in any state where we lived had ever heard of us.

Seems to me that you don’t have “full legal custody” if you aren’t able to go anywhere and do anything without “procedural” stuff hanging over your head.


Oh, so they can move anywhere they want.

Only, if they do, the state of Kentucky will notify the new state about them, and they will get visited by CPS in that state.

And it’s “still active.”

under CPS move

Here’s some more conspiracy stuff. The state of Kentucky is conspiring to keep the Nauglers poor. They want the Nauglers to be able to function without the state having to raise their kids for them, but not able to be “stronger” because then they would be “empowered.”

To do what?

Why, to whistleblow. That’s what.


The state does not want this to happen. No, sirree.  They are terrified of Joe Naugler because he is “aggressively working.”

I will pause a minute while you recover.

Joe Naugler has never worked aggressively in his entire life for a single second.

But anyway, the GAL is insisting on “forensic evaluation.”  What in the hell is that?

It’s a psychological examination, among other things.

The GAL is concerned that the Naugler parents might be bananas.  I cannot imagine why she might be concerned about that.  Little things like the Blessed Little Shitshack, and the Blessed Little Non-existent Compost Heap, stuff like that doesn’t raise any red flags at all.

At any rate, as you can imagine, Nicole isn’t a fan of testing.  She doesn’t want her kids tested to see if they know anything at all, and she sure as hell would object heartily to having herself tested to determine if she is bonkers.

from blog

Notice the wording here. She’s using vague terminology.

It has yet to be scheduled.

“It” [the forensic evaluations] can’t schedule itself.  Somebody has to do that. Who is the somebody who is not doing that?

Is it like an appointment with the doctor?  You call and make an appointment for August 19 at 2:00 p.m. and then you show up and have your examination.  Of course, if you happen to not want to have that examination, you could call them on August 15 and say, “Gee, I can’t make it on the 19th. Can I reschedule?”  And they will say, “Sure, how about September 5 at 10:00 a.m.?” And you say, “Okay, that’s fine.”

Rinse and repeat.  You can put off that exam for months.

. . .we just keep resetting the court hearings.

Well, of course. You can’t have the court hearing until the forensic evaluation is done, and “it” is not even scheduled. That mysterious person simply hasn’t done it.  Or the Nauglers “keep resetting.”

I fail to see what is “unprecedented” about requiring a psychological evaluation.  It’s done all the time.

Nicole is wanting us to believe that the ball here is totally in the hands of the Family Court and they are refusing to even schedule the evaluations because they are so terrified of the Nauglers that they want to keep them all locked up tight and quiet. Like she calls and says, “When can we have those tests done?” And they reply, “Oh, gee, we’re booked solid until November of 2018.” She’s implying that if they called her tomorrow and said, “The evaluations are scheduled for next week” she would reply, “Oh, good. What time? We’ll be there.”

She would not. We all know she would not. She words this stuff relatively carefully.  It’s called “weaseling.”

So the Nauglers remain “on a tether.”

That means that their CPS case is not closed, and they are not free to do and go anywhere they like anytime they like without supervision.

And their political views have nothing whatever to do with it.

That takes us back to the original question.

Is your case with CPS still open and have you met all of their requirements?

Answer: Yes, it’s still open, and no, they haven’t.




49 thoughts on “Reset”

  1. Thank you for this. I should think that there would be a deadline for the Nauglers to organize this testing themselves. It often happens when there are court-ordered evaluations required, the family can request to use their own evaluator. The process of identifying and scheduling this evaluator is then the responsibility of the family. Stringing it out becomes easier for the family, especially because the state has few resources to put pressure on the family to follow through. It’s a strategy.


  2. I hope Nicole and Joe strangle their well laid weaseling plans with that tether.


  3. It’s a short term strategy. In the long term it is worse than ineffective, it is a game changer for the entire family. The court has seen it all, there is nothing original or clever being done by the parents, and the court will eventually act. In the law we call it giving them enough rope to hang themselves. Like everything the parents are incapable or unwilling to see that the games they play have very real and lasting consequences for their children. If they truly cared about the sanctity of their family or the welfare of their children they would do what needs to be done and stop with the games. IMHO.


  4. BLB combined and condensed both Nicole and Joe into one sentence: “And the Family Court is afraid of this, so the Court won’t close the case in order to stop the fearless intrepid Nauglers from informing the world about the evils of Child Protective Services.”

    CPS is ready to close it out but Family Court isn’t. And it’s Family Court that’s covering for CPS (who no longer have a fight with the Nauglers) by keeping the case open. So…Nicole, Joe? Who are the bad guys, Family Court or CPS? CPS or Family Court?

    When you stop lying, you can stop worrying about keeping your stories straight.


  5. Its the same strategy she employed while trying to keep the kids from talking to CPS and the officers at the beginning of this insidious action. She wanted a lawyer present, but took no steps to obtain one.
    Just like last time, it will not end well. unless she’s gunning for another massive fundraiser for Joe to shove in a pipe.


  6. Fun fact: Nothing about what she typed is unprecedented. Say whatever you want about the GAL and the judge being “best friends”, but it’s not uncommon for different parties on the same side to disagree. I am good friends with family/juvenile defense attorneys and GAL’s and caseworkers and we’re not even going to talk about my crush on the county judge, who is super hot and really invested in doing the right thing for these kids which makes him even hotter. It’s a small community. We fight each other to the death over cases, then break for lunch and all go out to eat, and then an hour later we’re back at each other’s throats. Friendship takes a back seat to what’s best for these kids. It’s not personal.

    CPS is generally the first to want to close a case because they’re overwhelmed. Fin. It’s often the GAL’s and the CASA’s and the SAG who fight that because it’s truly not in the child’s best interest. If they have full legal/physical custody, then they’re likely in something called “family preservation”, and I’m willing to bet folding money the GAL petitioned the court to allow him or her to stay on the case and check in on the children because they are genuinely worried about what might happen in the future.

    Again, they’re not special. This is any given Tuesday in my neck of the woods. This is normal with parents that we think will put their kids right back in danger. The judge could close the case, but likely won’t because this way they have supervision AND reunification as opposed to just bouncing them right back into care if the Nauglers go guanopsychotic again. This is a tactic we use to keep families TOGETHER.


  7. Thanks for putting this piece together Sally. For months this is exactly what I’m been trying to point out. Joe and Nicole’s CPS case is far from over. 🙂


  8. Lisa,
    I totally agree with you 100% that the courts are giving them enough rope to hang themselves.


  9. I’m confused. She states that “family court keeps resetting us” and in another post she states “and we keep resetting the court hearings”.


  10. It frequently happens in my work supporting mothers, that CPS wants to close cases (like you described, Former Case Worker) and I, and others, have to fight to keep them open. CPS is overwhelmed and underfunded. And that’s a crying shame. We should be ashamed, as a society, that we do not place more value on the child protection system.


  11. For the life of me, I can’t imagine why the Blessed Ones haven’t rushed to have their evaluations done. After all, there is absolutely nothing wrong with them, their lifestyle, their choices, etc. The evaluations would prove to the world that they are right.

    Wouldn’t they?


  12. LOL aggressively working. No, Joe cannot sustain aggressive anything beyond, say, 30 seconds. He can bloviate for hours but really, ‘aggressively working?’ I guess he could be said to be aggressively lazing on his tail end or has aggressively, at times when he would think he wouldn’t get caught, endeavored to steal water. Or, he has persistently stalked people, but nah, has never aggressively worked. He is ideologically opposed to work but ideologically in favor of everyone else, including his kids, giving him the monetary fruit of their work. Remember, these are his entitlements and his rights. ?


  13. Former Caseworker: I just wanted to commend you on your job and the term “guanopsychotic”!


  14. “Joe Naugler has never worked aggressively in his entire life for a single second.”

    Oh, I don’t know. He must have worked hard every so often to get his hands on something that soothes his savage breast. I doubt it’s music. *cough cough*

    “Music hath charms to soothe a savage breast. To soften Rocks, or bend a knotted Oak.”


  15. Also, it’s entirely possible that CPS is telling them that they are trying to close the case and shifting the blame to family court because the caseworker is scared of the Nauglers.

    I will be more than happy to kick the blame upwards if I think I’m in danger. In fact, my supervisors encourage me to do so.


  16. Maybe Kentucky is different than my state but the Nauglers will never be able to release these supposed documents. Family court proceedings are sealed ro protect the privacy of the kids (the ones that the parents are always harping about feeling violated because if the court proceedings and “harrassment”).


  17. Until she post a picture of the paperwork showing that they have legal custody of the kids she is lying.

    She was quick to post pictures of all of the other paperwork. Yeah some of it she only posted parts of it like the charges they were cleared on the schooling stuff. It is my understanding that a separate set of paperwork is issued for each charge and betting my last breath that they had more than schooling for charges.

    If they had more than schooling as charges then the fence and the new shit shed would not have happened. They got the shed as per Nicole herself in order to get the kids back. That is saying that CPS, GAL, LE and the judge did not deem the shit shack as proper housing. Also until the forensic are done the judge is not going to put his ass on the line and give them back legal custody.

    Nicole and Jojo we do not buy your lies and twisted ways you word things. It is easier to tell the truth then you will not be caught later in lies when you slip with a bit of the truth. We are not stupid we can put the pieces of the puzzle that you drop here and there and figure out what the real truth is. The real truth is as parents you both suck big time.


  18. Am I the only one who sees red when the N’s say the only thing CPS said was wrong is they didn’t register as unschoolers!! Out of all of the lies they have told that one has to be the biggest!!!!! Plus it is complete and utter bull shit!!! Not registering would have landed them in truancy court and they would have been told to rectify the situation!!! CPS doesn’t take your 10 kids for 2 months and still have an open case 14 months later because you didn’t register with the school district as unschoolers!!!


  19. “living in conditions that would make a poor person in rural Africa feel sorry for them.”

    Sad that this isn’t hyperbole.

    I don’t know why, but I want to like Nicole, maybe because we do have some beliefs that are similar, maybe because I’m a mom, maybe because I grew up with an insane mom and don’t want her kids to have to dal with therapy like I did, and if I like her, maybe she can’t really be like my mom. But Joe’s another case. He’s a lazy slob, and I see a lot of red flags with him. He works her up, then tries to soothe her. It’s creepy.

    Either way though, even the poor in Africa, who are a pet-poor-person-project for many, take pride in what they have, try to keep their possessions clean, and there’s no excuse for someone to not be either raising their kids or doing whatever they can to support them. Nicole has a job, but what’s Joe’s excuse? Nicole shouldn’t have to go home and do everything he didn’t. SHE IS TRYING, JOE. Even if she’s falling short in some places and has ideas that are even crazier than mine, at least she’s making a real effort to support the kids. What. The fuck. Is your excuse, Joe?!

    If CPS wants to close the case, it would probably be because they don’t even know what to do. If they took the kids and cut parental rights, how would they find homes for feral kids who don’t know the basics of how to socialize because they aren’t taught ( )? Kids who have been raised to believe that any schooling at all, even real unschooling (they don’t unschool, really, they don’t, they do NOTHING AT ALL), is the government trying to harm them? Kids who might not be able to function in the world? Putting them in foster homes would probably be futile. Who would adopt the most feral of them for years? When they get to be adults, if they can’t function, they might be better left in one unit instead of spread out.

    The situation is so fucked up that the kids really might be better off in the long term left where they are. I think the damage is too deep, and probably can’t be undone. It’s tragic.


  20. I see red as well when she says the only thing cps found was the kids not being registered as home schoolers. They had to find out more then just that, otherwise they wouldn’t have kept the kids for so long. We just won’t ever know the truth when it comes to that. The case is sealed because of the children being minors.

    I wish those poor children luck.


  21. I’m a little surprised that Nicole isn’t bellowing about the incompetence of the Family Court professionals. Similar to the Environmentalist. Offering they should read a book on the subject and do their job. And offering to volunteer at the Family Court agencies, so she can show them how to do their job. Publicly degrading the professional individuals involved in the case, with all their “bullshit”.

    Hold that thought, though. She plans to expose all the bullshit, when they can get the transcripts released from court.

    I’m sure the Naugs understand the role of the GAL. ” Guardian ad litem” (GAL) is a person the court appoints to investigate what solutions would be in the best interests of a child.”

    I’m not sure what transcripts Nicole plans get released so she can expose all the bullshit, but according to this….”The court seals the GAL’s reports so they are private to the parties and to the court. No one else can see them. This means that you are also prohibited from showing the report to others, unless you get the Court’s permission.”

    uh, eh, hmm. Yeah, Nicole, you may need to ask the Court’s permission.


  22. @Kaylee: It may not be as grim as you paint it. Mrs. Naugler has remarked that she just doesn’t know how some of the younger ones learned to read, with a strong implication that letting them run around in mud among dropped tools, garbage, and feces caused literacy to somehow congeal out of the air. But the oldest son, for one, was at one time sufficiently engaged in “statist” society to be a Boy Scout. Somehow I think that this is connected to the ability of his “unschooled” siblings to read.

    Oh, by the way, eldest son? If you aren’t already aware, many of the free textbooks linked through that Old Fashioned Education page can be downloaded to that Kindle. Link, again:

    Some of the links the curriculum creator posted to individual textbooks are broken, but see under the Links…well….link on the left for pages that are chock-full of useful books, with search functions. Almost everything she recommends is still available somewhere.


  23. I’m confused. Joe is working on legislature? So is he trying to change laws? I thought they just ignore laws because voting and trying to change laws doesn’t work. Did I just read it wrong?


  24. Kaylee
    Leaving the kids there to grow into adults and having their own kids to do the cycle all over again and again is not the answer.

    About 30 miles from me in what is much more wilderness than where they live there is a place where family did just that they had kids and kept the kids there to have kids. No schooling and inter bred children. The people that live there are so bad that even law enforcement tries not to go near them cause they are crazy as bat shit.

    I am sure that the good people around them don’t want that in their county.

    Here are a few links to read about it


  25. After reading this blog again this morning I have to admit, ” I love it when Joe bitches and whines over workers having immunity”.
    That just made my day all over again…Lols !!!


  26. They didn’t register the kids, they didn’t allow cops to talk to the kids, they were uncooperative….hence Nicole arrest before. That’s why cps took kids. There also was no stable home or safe shelter, no water.


  27. Old time farm girl, Jahaza, and A, I understand your frustrations with Joe and Nicole insisting that CPS only found that the kids were not registered (as home schoolers) which is educational neglect.

    Nicole and Joe lied by commission stating CPS only found educational neglect.

    Go take a second and even third look at the letter Nicole posted. It had two areas of neglect listed on that letter, educational and environmental. I also encourage you to read about the Kentucky process for allegations that are reported (I was confused about the two areas of neglect listed on that letter and decided to do my own investigation). Chapter 3 of the Kentucky CPS manual spells out the process which is transparent, but details obviously are not.
    SOP 163.15, 163.16, and 163.17 describe the notification of findings of an investigation.

    A brief summary: CPS is informed of allegations and they either determine that the family is in need of services (FINSA) or they do an investigation. They decided to do an investigation for the Nauglers. The allegation(s) are either found to be valid or invalid. If they are valid a substantiated investigation notification letter is sent (this is the letter that Nicole posted). If the allegation(s) are found to be invalid an unsubtantiated investigation notification letter is sent (Nicole did not post this type of letter).

    The statement regarding not needing services does not negate the fact that environmental neglect was substantiated. The environmental neglect was addressed and completed before the investigation was finished. Nicole specifically stated that the fence was a requirement for CPS. I cannot recall if she stated that clean-up was also necessary. She did not say anything about the shed, but IMO CPS also required that to eliminate the environmental neglect. And unless Nicole shares what CPS required to address the environmental neglect (we only know about the fencing), we will not obtain those details.


  28. Sally, thank you for gathering the statements made by Joe and Nicole on this topic. You made it easy to make sense of Nicole’s misdirection.

    Nicole reminds me of an ex-friend who would tell you something that was accurate while not disclosing something (lie of omission) you would need to know to make an informed decision. Or she would even lie by commission if she thought you would never find out.


  29. @Jean if I am correct she said that they has to put fencing around the pond and the burn pile. I remeber seeing them post a pic with orange fencing put up around the pond. And in the current photo of the pond it is no longer there.

    To me they did enough to get those kids back, and now they just don’t care.


  30. So KY has a bunch of new laws that start today. One of the new laws is Harrassing Telemunications. Remember the Nauglers document everything, but it also is good for those who the nauglers harasse using Telemunications.


  31. I am glad the state of Kentucky is giving the Naugler’s a very hard time. I suppose when they did their research on how to rip off the LDS church, where are lax homeschool laws, where could I get away with murder..Kentucky showed up on their radar.

    They may win the right to live as they are, keep their kids but that is not much of a win . Now they have to live on that filthy homestead ostracized and seen as the pariahs of the county. That’s not much of a win in my eyes. Too broke to move, forced to stay when they would rather be gone. They are now prisoners of their own making. They are such fools. Hahahaha!

    The last laugh is on the locals.


  32. It bothers me when the children are described as feral. It has only been the past 3 years that they have been “homesteading”, prior to that they lived in houses. The children do know how toilets work because they go to the shop. The have some type of interaction with other people there as well as when N takes them shopping. I suspect some of the younger ones may be a little wilder than most due to a lack of structure, but I don’t believe it is insurmountable. They have the older N children to model behavior. They aren’t totally dependent on N & J to teach them. If I thought the kids were beyond help, there would be no point in any of the blogs or FB pages that tell the truth about the N’s.


  33. @A Thanks for reminding me that the fencing was required around the pond and burn pile.

    Nicole did not provide the reason CPS required the fencing (those unknown details of the case). I believe the fencing was required since there was no barrier (no fourth wall) to prevent the little ones from wandering to the pond during the night without supervision. With most homes you have the bedroom door and a locked door before a little one could get to a pond (and also a fence if you have a pool).
    Old farm house girl mentioned that Nicole did say the shed was a requirement to get the kids back. I had either forgotten this or missed her statement.
    I agree with you that Nicole and Joe did just enough to get the kids back. I really wish that I could see evidence of them working alongside the kids instead of documenting the work they do. I have been very happy to see things growing in the garden.


  34. It bothers me when the children are described as feral.

    I would tend to agree with you, Beth. I would describe them as neglected and deprived, but not “feral.” They will grow up and probably describe their childhood as “rough.”


  35. Exposing the Nauglers has served as a cautionary tale and an education for me. What the future holds for these kids is unknown, but I have learned so much in regards to protecting the rights of children, internet abuse, grifting, politics and crime from following this. Despite the outcome, it has been well worth my time and I am very thankful to Sally and others who continue to expose the Naugler parents lies. I know many who had no idea of the laxity and abuse of “homeschooling” regulations until this case went “viral” for just one example. I hope state and national laws will change in the future based on the Naugler abuses, and I will be voting and doing what I can to help make this change happen.


  36. I think the saddest part of this is it shows just the amount of lack funding Kentucky CPS has. Given the amount of neglect these children face I feel the best thing is to remove them. But to remove all 11 children and place them in foster homes is near impossible. Although I agree they aren’t feral, as I see feral as having no ability to socialize and act as a human being they do have some socialization skills. However their minds have been warped to think and act that as their parents. They are being given no choice, they have no ability to get out because most have no SSN or birth certificate and I wouldn’t doubt that they are taught that ‘big bad government’ wants to hurt them. However, I do wish CPS/family court be move involved, and I understand that there would be a lot of resources needed for this family. I am someone who truly believes that we should be able to live our lives with little intervention from the government however they need it. They should of had them go to public schools (if I recall right they stated they had them take testing) so they can not only get a proper education but monitoring (and I know that many schools are awful, and can miss neglect/abuse at home). They need to see a pediatrician, to make sure there are no underlying diseases they are missing or could prevent. It seems as though she does take them if really, really needed and does take them to the eye doctor (thankfully). And lastly and most importantly they need their own space. The shed is not sufficient. They do not have access to a toilet, any source of running water or can safely heat their home in the winter. I can not imagine being a female going through puberty without being able to wash or have a private space when beginning periods etc. None of the kids have a private space to have to go to their place, and any teenager needs that, their bodies are changing in ways they don’t understand and it’s not fair that the entire family is involved.
    I am not saying you can’t bring up a family with your own values/beliefs. I was brought up in a conservative, Catholic family (even went to a Catholic high school) and turned out to be a happy, self sufficient, bisexual, free spirited libertarian. I was given the wiggle room as I grew older and found myself, to be myself and that is exactly what these children don’t have.


  37. Jean
    Nicole said that they bought the shed to get the kids back.
    She said that by buying the shed they got the kids back sooner.

    Actually when she posted about the shed she posted that they were getting two of them but only one ever showed up.

    that picture she recently posted of the pond is an old picture. Look at the pond it is clean and believe me they did not do anything to clean that pond up nor could they get it cleaned up that fast. Cleaning that pond would take time and equipment. The chickens in the picture are chickens they use to have. They were down to one mama chicken that hatched some eggs and they bought some chicks which none of the chicks would be old enough to be that big by now. Clean pond + well grown chickens + no fencing = old picture. She is great at posting older pictures.


  38. Bambi said, “I am not saying you can’t bring up a family with your own values/beliefs.”

    I don’t think anyone would disagree. Most parents desire to raise their children with a set of values and beliefs to give them a good foundation in hopes they will grow up as happy and productive adults.

    I fail to believe though, that any CPS intervention would solely be because of the parents’ beliefs. Religious, political or whatever. Children have the right to be free from neglect and abuse. We as the “village” have a responsibility to not turn an eye and look away. All children deserve a a safe and clean living environment. Access to a productive education. Vital identification, a birth record. An emotional and mentally healthy environment.

    Contrary to what the Nauglers want people to believe, that the children were kidnapped by CPS because of their lifestyle and political beliefs. Bullshit. All the public photos from May 2015 that circulated everywhere are deplorable. Catastrophic. I hope CPS keeps Joe and Nicole tethered like soap on a rope.

    And for the kids, the village has their back. I hope people are always watching. And for the locals, I hope if you see something, report it. And report it again. And again.

    Hope floats!


  39. I know that the comments about Africa are meant to be snark on the Nauglers but given how much I have learned from others on this site, I wanted to add some thoughts. There are currently 54 countries in Africa. I have been to only one so I am by no means an expert on the continent. But I can share with you a couple of things from my time there and through experiences with refugees.

    The first is that these 54 countries are as different as can be (and the same can be said of Africans themselves, who are far different genetically from one another than are the average white person and the average black person in the US). Some countries are lovely; some are war-torn, some are comparatively rich and others beyond poor. Some of the housing in the country that I was in was far, far worse than you can imagine. There were dwellings that were about 5x5x5 feet, made of corrugated steel, and completely open on one side. These were lined up like shoebox dioramas in a classroom, with a sheet for covering the opening. I’m not a crier. I cried. Every lodging for foreigners had 15-foot walls with razor wire topping. Power would be shut off completely in the evening and often the internet went out–not for a particular residence or business but for the entire capital city. People live in garbage dumps (also true in another country I’ve been to). The pollution was indescribable. We all got the “brown snot” for weeks. There is no funding or services for those in poverty offered by the government. You do what you need to do to survive.

    The point of this is to say that in my opinion, not one of the amazing, resilient people I met in this African country wound feel sorry for the Nauglers. They would wonder what the fuck is wrong with them for taking the incredible opportunities offered by the simple fact being born in the USA, and literally pissing them away. In fact, I think they might be rather angry about it.


  40. I am kind of surprised that the court didn’t order some sort of formal schooling for the children simply to keep eyes on them. Granted, I’ve only ever seen it done with younger children, but sometimes the Department will order and pay for daycare or preschool for children who really need to have a mandated reporter keep tabs on them.

    I wonder if they claimed a religious objection to that.


  41. Old time farm girl, there is no ideal here. Taking the kids away permanently isn’t going to result in kids being rehabbed into functioning members of society. You’ve got kids brainwashed to trust no one, and only until the day they each turn 18. Then what? A removal will be only until they turn 18, and then they can go back, probably hating anyone they aren’t related to more. They can go back and start having all the kids they want (maybe their lack of friends, which Nicole admits, means they won’t have kids, because I don’t want to think about incest), and there will be nothing to stop them. Severing their parents’ rights won’t stop that. It’ll just result in separation for a little while and more distrust.

    The littlest ones might have a chance , but I think it’s too late for removal for the older ones to have any positive effect. 🙁


  42. “The point of this is to say that in my opinion, not one of the amazing, resilient people I met in this African country wound feel sorry for the Nauglers. They would wonder what the fuck is wrong with them for taking the incredible opportunities offered by the simple fact being born in the USA, and literally pissing them away. In fact, I think they might be rather angry about it.”

    One of my co-workers is, in fact, from a very poor country in Africa. He came to the US on a student visa, got his degree, applied for citizenship and so on. His two daughters have also reaped the rewards of US citizenship (he got married along the way like so many of us). One graduated college this year, the other has started. College is not the be-all, end-all, by any means but his two girls were NOT going to have some slack-ass education like they would have had in his native land. His girls were going to have opportunities and choices and he and his wife moved heaven and earth to make certain of it.

    He got a glimpse of the Naugler situation one day and he was horrified. Simply horrified. As he put it, “No one in MY village would have let their place turn into such a dump. Nor would they have treated their tools with such disrespect. They would have faced serious in-your-face consequences by the other residents. Particularly Joe.”

    I decided it was best not to ask what those consequences would have been as I had never seen him so worked up about anything. He was livid.


  43. @ MyNameGoesHere

    I could not agree more with the last paragraph of your comment. I have lived in developing countries. The fact that the Naugler parents have chosen to live in squalor and refuse to take advantage of the opportunities available to them and their children would be incomprehensible. Just as it is to me.


  44. “The point of this is to say that in my opinion, not one of the amazing, resilient people I met in this African country wound feel sorry for the Nauglers. They would wonder what the fuck is wrong with them for taking the incredible opportunities offered by the simple fact being born in the USA, and literally pissing them away. In fact, I think they might be rather angry about it.”

    This is exactly how I feel about N & J. Nicole posted a link about Russia giving away free land. I so wanted to comment and ask her what was stopping them from moving to take advantage! The hatred they have for the country that they were born in is appalling.


  45. I was sure the Nogs had made plans to put up a new fence around the pond, since the old seemed to have disappeared. But I was wrong. The fence is there! It is just invisible and can only be seen by those that share a special kinship with ma and pa. Like Charles Smyth!

    Jane Doe It’s a lovely photo but…What happened to the fence CPS required you to put it?
    Like · Reply · July 13 at 11:56pm · Edited

    Charles Smyth You cannot see it??
    Like · Reply · July 14 at 10:02pm

    Jane Doe Umm NOPE. That’s why I asked.

    Charles Smyth It is there if you look close
    Like · Reply · 13 hrs

    Jane Doe I have eyes and I voomed I don’t see it. Blow it up and show me!


  46. Really interesting to read others’ comments about experiences in and with people from developing countries.

    “His girls were going to have opportunities and choices and he and his wife moved heaven and earth to make certain of it.”

    Exactly, and I would like to emphasize the word “choices” here, exactly as @Lawyers Guns and Money did and @m alluded to, because it is critical to this discussion.

    I suspect that many people from developing countries would laugh their asses off about the Nauglers’ purported “oppression”. One of the key features of oppression is not having the agency to make choices. In other words, poverty is enforced; it is not a choice. The Nauglers have chosen to live in poverty. The ebil gubmint in this country would be glad to lend a hand but the Nauglers *choose* not to take it. As they are so fond of saying, that is certainly their right, within the limits of what are fairly loosey goosey legal requirements when considered in a global context (see China, where you can now have more than one kid only if you’re relatively rich). But they do have a choice. And thus, by definition, they are not oppressed.

    And once more, if they just ceased their online presence (again, a choice, unlike in many countries), nobody would have a clue about them choosing to eschew the simple societal contract to be excellent to each other. Again, a choice.


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