Permit

no idea

That’s odd. She has “no idea” how what the porta-potty company does is different from what they do, just dumping shit on the fucking ground.

No idea.

Well, I don’t even want to do this. I’m not even slightly interested in the laws about this in Kentucky.

But do you know how long it took me to find out “how it’s different”?

Two minutes.

I Googled the words “composting regulations Kentucky.” This was really hard. I had to think a lot.  You know, for maybe 30 seconds of that two minutes.

And I found this, right off the bat.

KY composting law

Wow.

You know those numbers and letters in blue?  Those are links. You can click on them. The first one is for “solid waste.”  Like shit. “Special waste” is waste with high levels of heavy metals and stuff like that. We’re not interested in that.

Click on the first one and you’ll go here.

It’s tiny print and not very pretty, but the gist is this. You can’t just put this stuff right on fields, you know, right on the ground, Naugler-style.

It has to be treated in a very particular way and tested for very particular things. The site has to be inspected and approved, and then it has to be inspected again periodically.  There is a whole lot of fine print.

Nicole is absolutely lying through her teeth when she says to her clueless follower that she has “no idea” what the difference is.

She knows because she has looked all this stuff up.

permits

She is talking here about getting a permit for an actual outhouse, one with a hole in the ground. They are legal, but they have to be inspected to make sure they are positioned so that they don’t encroach on anyone’s well and to make sure the hole is deep enough and all that stuff.

But “right now” they are just too busy to obey the law. Nicole needs a rest from the drama. Fuck the judge. Fuck the health department. Can’t they see that she is tired?  Don’t they understand that it’s hard work convincing people to donate $250?

But you do realize that if she knows how to get a permit for an actual, real outhouse with a hole in the ground, she also knows exactly what the regulations are for composting solid waste?

And it is not a fucking outhouse.

30 thoughts on “Permit”

  1. From the embedded link, here is one of many mandated requirements.

    “(j) The name, address, phone number, and certification number of the state certified landfarming operator of the proposed landfarming site”

    Well, we know Joe and Nicole wouldn’t take a class in order to pass a test to be officially recognized as having met the minimum qualifications necessary to legally run this little venture.

    Really though, they were out of the running at the very start.

    “(2) The cabinet shall not permit the land application of a solid waste that may present a threat to human health and the environment. The land application suitability of solid wastes shall be evaluated by the cabinet on a case-by-case basis. The applicant shall submit a request for a determination of waste classification with the submittal of a notice of intent to apply. The cabinet may base a decision as to the land application suitability of a particular waste upon the ability of the waste to biodegrade in the environment, the potential for the waste to be managed in a manner consistent with 401 KAR 47:030, the likelihood that waste constituents shall contaminate surface water or groundwater, the potential for nuisances from odors or unsightly conditions, and the potential for the waste to harm human health or the environment.”

  2. Thank goodness they don’t have to compost all the bullshit they dish out! “And now you know the REST of the STORY!

  3. I googled that once too and then I thought about how perplexing it would be for my family if something happened to me and my computer history showed searches on human waste composting laws in Kentucky. I don’t even live in the US. LOL

  4. See how relatively easy it is to google on the internet, to find information on Kentucky regs for human feces waste management?

    Nicole, just last month or so, was calling the Environmentalist out for ignorant and not doing his job. Implying she needed to go volunteer at the department, educate them on some book on the how to of composting human feces. She escalated to calling Mr. Hinton an idiot, last weekend.

    So good neighbors of the community, what you have in Nicole and Joe is the smug and fuck you. They want to do what they damn well please. Regardless of well documented rules and regulations. Of required permits.

    And she wants to mislead social media peeps in distant locations, so as to play on their ignorance of the situation.

    Well, I have the saying for all the social media followers in distant places. Believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see, from Nicole. In yesterday’s case with the video, didn’t even get to see a shit composting waste management system. What you did see is the rental port-a-potty that may imply some compliance. Of “maybe” not shitting in white buckets, then dumping the buckets full of shit in piles on the ground anymore. There was no proper outhouse, previously. And no one can dump shit in piles on the ground and excuse it as composting. No. Just no!

  5. Who wants to lay bets that as soon as the inspectors left the white shit buckets were hauled out of hiding?

    You know, because no one tells Nicole or Joe where they can shit.

    Sticking it to the man one bowel movement at a time. Freedom.

  6. I am not going to hold my breath on any results of the visit to Naugler Camp Idle Destitute. It would have to rely on a few things that at not really apparent in the video. Mr. Hinton was holding his cards close to his chest which is extremely wise. Joe and Nicole showed themselves to be unfamiliar with their own waste disposal location, nervously exposing their ignorance and angrily displaying their contempt and ignorance of law. I will speculate somewhat here and say that if fecal contamination of the aquifer and dependent ponds and users has been recorded already, then Mr. Hinton’s visit would appear to be a confirmation of the source of contamination. That would complicate matters to extended effects of the observed and admitted-to dumping human waste on the ground. The pecuniary liabilities would expand exponentially under such circumstances, I would think. But that is completely speculative on my part. We’ll see what happens Tuesday.

  7. If they gave it a few moments of reflection, they would embrace the port-a-potty set-up. No one has to lug buckets of waste anywhere. It’s properly composted elsewhere. THERE IS A DOOR. They incur no liability and the only thing they’re responsible for doing is using the damn thing and paying the bill to have it emptied/rotated for a newly washed port-a-potty.

    I can only imagine the joy at least one of the children must have felt when that task no longer fell onto his (minor) shoulders.

    It’s a pity that neither Joe nor Nicole took care of lugging the bucket(s) for the past 2-3 years. They might appreciate it more. As it stands, they didn’t bother doing it on behalf of their family or themselves.

  8. The Naugler’s videos have sealed their court case, and any future lawsuits in a bad way.
    Can you just see the inspector’s report? “Mother was obviously not supervising the maintenance of the compost, as she was unaware of its location. Father believes that human waste can just be spread around on the ground without any treatment, as he stated to me that the port a potty company does that with the waste they collect.”

    What a great blog post that would have been if Joe and Nicole had kindly educated the local health department about how a humanure system can work. They could have become known as advocates for change. They could have made a positive video that people around the world would share to show how one family was composting and making a difference. But no, they just gave a video of the long walk and some confrontational attitude that made any real dialog impossible.

    Didn’t they just move the cabin up the hill away from the road? Is the port a potty right near the gate to the road ? Are we supposed to believe that she fears for her children’s safety from trolls on the road, yet she sends them far from the cabin to potty down near the gate? That’s a long walk every time someone needs to use the potty. Maybe they use buckets at the cabin and carry them down to the port a potty. Or maybe they still just go wherever they want and do their business.

    What is the point of no door on the bucket shed ? Why go to all the trouble to build it and not put on a door? Is it a family philosophy thing that they want to teach their children that people can do “all” their natural business : sex, bathing, dressing, child birthing, bodily waste elimination, tampon or pad usage, and whatever else, in front of each other?

    No way did the kids haul the buckets up that hill everyday in all kinds of weather to dump it in the “compost”. They hauled those buckets all that way in the snow, ice and rain?

    I read a homesteading blog the other day that had a family of six using four pallet compost bins to compost their humanure. It apparently took their family of six about three months to fill one compost bin. Then they moved on to filling the next bin. So by the time they needed the first compost bin, a year later, it was composted.
    So for a family of 10 using the compost bins, I would guess they would fill a pallet compost bin about every 2 months. They would need about six bins to give each compost bin a year to break down, and another bin for a place to store the sawdust (or whatever) to add to cover the dumped buckets. Hard to tell from Nicole’s video, but it almost looked like just two bins. Where is the covered, dry material to cover the compost?

  9. they would embrace the port-a-potty set-up.

    Unless I’m very mistaken, the porta-potty is a band-aid, and won’t be allowed as a permanent solution. I know that sometimes hunting camps are allowed to have them seasonally (because it’s short-term use), but not for 13 people endlessly.

  10. They didn’t move the shed very far at all from the last location. Maybe 100 feet at best. Slightly up the incline, and rotated to face away from the street, but toward the very close neighbor’s house. The neighbors protected by the “no contact agreement” which forbids Joe, the animals and I believe, any minor children under Joe’s purported control from trespassing, harassing or getting within 500 feet of them in public spaces.

    28 acres more or less and this is where they chose to move the shed. A year to clear a space for it further into the property. A year to grade a road to the new location. A years worth of good weather days and weeks to move the shed. 100 feet, facing the neighbor. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. They’re not afraid of anyone, they are furious that the neighbor is not afraid of them, IMO.

    Note: I noticed there is a new commenter who shares my name so I added some initials to distinguish us. Wouldn’t want her to get any flack for my words. 🙂

  11. So. The original complaint in May gave them 20 days to abate the nuisance before fines kicked in. Due to the extreme leniency of the county, that window stretched to 3 months. And yet, the nuisance still remains. The health inspector has pictures and access to a video prepared by the person charged. I would think on Tuesday that fines may commence. I hope so. The county has been overly generous.

  12. Sally have you ever been in contact with the author of the infamous Humanure book to see what he has to say about the Nauglers set up? I cannot imagine he is too pleased about this couple tagging what they are doing as humanure composting.

  13. I am astonished that Nicole and Joe didn’t know where the poop pile was. Them not knowing in general seems about right for them but that they couldn’t be bothered to walk up there once before the planned inspection so you don’t look like a *complete* idiot? How on earth does she plan on spinning that for the supporters? “We’re so smart we have to teach the government how to do their job but we palm our job off on children and never check up on them to see if it’s actually being done right, that way we can blame them later for our failure.”

    I’m guessing the port-a-potty company doesn’t hand over the waste to children and tell them to toss it wherever and then never check up on it, Joe. That might be a small difference between what you and they are doing.

    Tekla, I think the door on the port-a-potty would be a bug, not a feature for them (the parents at least) based on other things I’ve read about them.

    I have narcissistic parents (one full-fledged, one middling), and in reading support pages and in groups for the children of narcissists, no bathroom privacy is something that comes up again and again and again. My parents would just barge in whenever because no doors in the house ever had locks, even the bathroom, but I feel positively blessed in comparison to the Naugler kids.

  14. #sendsnacks, that is my thought as well. Once this court case is over, they will go back to shitting in buckets and dumping the contents on the ground. I think part of the reason they moved the shed is so they can go back to doing what they had been doing previously without it being so readily observable. Of course that is not the only reason they moved the shed. They moved it to hide their more current shit pile and also to keep an eye on the neighbor in order to observe his coming and goings on his land served up with a side of the hope of intimidating him.

  15. Would they have been able to rent the equipment and move the shed themselves? If not, I wonder if the shed movers might have a story to tell.

  16. I just watched both videos and I cannot understand the automatic defensive and rude attitude of Joe and Nicole. Those men probably didn’t want to be there any more than the N’s didn’t want them there. But are either of them aware that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?

    Just maybe, had they been respectful as those men were to them, those men may have found it in their good nature to HELP them. As in, try to help get them in compliance in such a way that everyone walked away a winner and in such a way that no health threats, whether to the public, environment or themselves would exist.

    One other observation that I do feel bad for making… why not clean your damn land up if you know people are coming out to inspect it? Dirty totes and garbage lying about? Do you take no pride in your home? Also, why is everything so overgrown? Joe can’t clear paths and maybe mow and clear? What are the excuses?

    Lastly… not knowing where your compost pile is – huge fail. And admitting your minor son is in charge of said compost pile – another fail. I predict the health department will not be siding with Nauglers on this. Just maybe if they had warmly shown those men and not immediately attacked them and just maybe if the land had been more presentable, they might have had a different outcome (even if it just meant more time).

  17. I think that pile of garbage was their way of cleaning up-I’m sure it was scattered all over before & was that the rusted ‘stove’ they have been cooking on?The weeds were too overgrown for anyone to have been walking back there to dump anything- surely there would have been a path worn down-right? I doubt if many of them even used the buckets-I think the young ones went where ever they were at the time.Besides eating the animals they had the dogs probably ate the feces,too.Those videos only proved what a liar she is.

  18. .Besides eating the animals they had the dogs probably ate the feces,too.

    Oh, boy I hadn’t thought of that. I have a dog who has been into coprophagia his whole life and I always assumed it was limited to dog turds. Because I do not poop in my backyard, he has never had the opportunity to sample the wares, so to speak. He probably would, because dogs are gross…. excuse me while I vomit.

  19. Yes that is the stove they were cooking on. Guess Jojo is too lazy to move it to where they relocated the shed.

    Would not surprise me if the dogs are eating the shit too. IMO that dog that is killing the animals is too thin. Thus the need to find food on his own. They can not afford to feed all those kids so why all those animals? Especially 12 roosters. 12 roosters walking around are not doing anything for that homestead. They would fill the kids belly if the butchered them and cooked them.

    I feel sorry for that one hen with 12 roosters she is getting gang raped. Nicole kill 10 of those roosters and feed them to your kids. Stew those boys up vs frying, baking or grilling them. They will need to simmer for a long time but will get tender and be good eating.

  20. They are homeless and renting a piece of property to squat on. They are just nasty people who take pride in nothing. Not themselves nor their children. Shitting and pissing in a bucket and then dumping it on the ground doesn’t bother them one bit.

  21. Oh, boy I hadn’t thought of that.

    I hadn’t thought of it either, but my dog would happily go after goat berries when we had goats. She’s leashed now all the time, so I don’t know what else she would try to consume. This is just a horrible thought.

  22. Re: >>IMO that dog that is killing the animals is too thin. Thus the need to find food on his own. They can not afford to feed all those kids so why all those animals?<<

    My thoughts exactly! That dog looks hungry, so he's killing the other animals just to eat! I saw a comment on the baby chicks post Nicole made on FB, where someone said they should start the hen and chicks on Starter/Grower feed. Fat chance that will happen. They will be forced to scrounge and forage like everyone else on that God-forsaken property (except for Joe…he looks well fed). They say that smoking pot gives you the munchies!

    It boggles my mind that the leg-humper commenters cannot see this debacle for what it is. Seriously! It almost seems as though they DO see the truth but refuse to admit it for some stubborn reason. It is just that obvious! I have gone from shock and horror, when I first discovered this story, to outrage and pure disgust. Even the video of the baby crawling across the floor is upsetting to me for reasons I won't go into here so as not to break this blog's policy on discussing the children. If I didn't have this blog as a cathartic outlet, I don't know what I would do, because sometimes I just want to start smashing things–the lies, deception, and delusion are that obvious (and infuriating!!!)

    Last, but not least, I send out a HUGE thank you to the all who comment here…I am so grateful for your intelligence, critical thinking and immense wit…all rolled into one, and it's keeping me sane. Thank you. 🙂

  23. I also had a dog like that (rest her soul). On one occasion we were camping and she came running from the woods with it all over her muzzle, then tried to jump up and lick us. It was human poop judging by the terrible odor. At least as a city dog in a yard, the opportunities for her to consume poo were remote. The Nauglers have had at least 2 or 3 adult dogs and I think at one point there were several puppies, all of whom were likely free-ranging and sampling the smorgasbord of Naugler family feces, then coming back for snuggles and friendly licks. Revolting.

  24. @ Old Kentucky Home, Old time farm girl, SanitySeeker

    Thank you for that. I will now have no problem limiting my food intake with those mental images. You guys are awesome but doggies ingested human feces, blech! Glad I keep cats (they play dried turd hockey which is almost as yucky).

  25. I am a reader, I have read “Tobacco Road” from Erskine Caldwell. I checked it was written in 1932. I did plenty of reading in my college days & this definition of Appalachia wasn’t required. I read this to understand where we as humans came from. We are almost 100s years later & the Naugs have done nothing to improve the views of people in our region. In my 20’s it was funny. Has anyone else read books from this time in history. I have not seen the movie (books seldom look better in movies).

  26. I am the ninth of ten kids and until I started school, we used an outhouse that was a well built building with two thrones built over a huge hole that was very deep. Additionally, my mother put lye or something like lye in the thing several times a week to curtail the smell and to help, I suspect, it to decompose. We also didn’t have a bathtub but my mother filled her washtub up with water she heated on the stove and one-by-one we all bathed. I remember her heating water for the older girls while my little sister, brother, and I bathed. We stood up in the tub and she scrubbed us with soap that she made and then she poured warm water over each of us…sometimes we played in the tub for a while but mostly it was business of getting clean. Mom and one of the older boys emptied that water and each of the girls bathed in fresh water. The boys were last. My mother oversaw all the baths, making sure each child bathed, was clean, the wash tub was emptied and refilled. During the summer, we washed at the water hose out in the back yard. BTW, we bathed every single night. My mother also washed all our clothes on a wringer washing machine that she filled with hot water from the stove. The older girls helped her wash and hang out clothes and the little kids helped fold and put up the towels etc. My mother’s husband was killed so she raised all ten of us without the help of anyone. She worked every day at an egg hatchery and she baked pies and cakes for a cafe in town. We had meat chickens for Sunday dinner or special occasions, and laying hens for eggs. Once a year, she killed two hogs that we raised: one we kept for the freezer and one she sold to the catholic priest in town. She also smoked ham and bacon in a smoke house my grandfather built for her. I believe the priest paid her well for the hog and many times, he gave her beef that he bought from one of his church members. She oversaw the raising of the pigs and she helped us feed the animals and collect the eggs. The egg layers were different from the freezer chickens. She raised the freezer chickens and when they were the right size, she would hold each one in her lap between a towel and she would pet the damn chicken to calm it and then she would hold its neck over and using a razor sharp knife, she would cut through the carotid and bleed the chicken until it was dead. There was no wringing the neck or shooting it. In fact, the chickens had a good life and died peacefully in the lap of the lady who had provided them with good corn table scraps, and a safe shelter. Yet, she still kept our house, us kids, and our clothes clean. Before I went down memory lane, I had a point and it was that at night, we used a bucket for urine and on those rare occasions that we had to do the other in the middle of the night, one of the older girls or mom would take us to the outhouse. We used a flashlight, the trail to the out house was always mowed and our outhouse was wired with electricity so that at night, we had a light along our path. When my mom emptied the night bucket, she emptied it, not the kids and she washed it out and cleaned it good and left it in the outhouse until night. To be frank, I don’t think we ever used that night bucket or if we did,it was a rare occurrence. My mother was happy to have running water in our house and by the time I started to school, her brothers and one of my older brothers had built us a bathroom with running hot and cold water, a flushing toilet that emptied into a septic tank a few yards from our house that was put in by a plumber and he followed the regulations of our city. I remember well the man coming out and inspecting it all. My mother was so happy to move up from outdoor toilet to indoor bathroom. And one more thing, during those outhouse days, I remember my mother asking us as soon as we finished with our business, did you wash your hands…. I still don’t understand how an able bodied man, even the piece of shit N is married to, cannot improve on their living conditions. Shit in a bucket for a short time, compost it correctly, build an outdoor toilet with a deep hole, do it right, later, maybe, just maybe get a bathroom…I don’t get their lack of self respect but I do get that if they don’t respect themselves and their own living conditions, that don’t give a damn about whose ground water gets contaminated by their shit runoff. Poor children…poor, poor, children and KY, shame on you for letting those children stay in that mess.

  27. Jeannie,
    That was all so interesting to me. Thank you for taking the time to write. Your last sentence is oh-so-true!
    “KY, shame on you for letting those children stay in that mess”

    This is it. In one sentence. I just don’t understand what the state of Kentucky considers abuse. And neglect is abuse!

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