Oh Shit

blogtitle

She actually did something she said she was going to do.  I am really shocked.  I mean, I was all ready to pounce and then I was so disappointed.

Not really.

Anyway, I saw a comment someplace that the color of Nicole’s blog is so apropos, and it is.

They went to court, as we know, and Joe pled not guilty, as we expected, and Joe has court on June 28th but that’s just a pre-trial conference, so this could go on forever. And Nicole has explained the whole thing in her blog.

Sort of.

quote 1

We begin here.  This is terribly misleading.

It wasn’t an issue.

We are talking about Child Protective Services.  We’re talking about a potty-thing that looks from the outside and with only a casual glance like an outhouse.  Of course it wasn’t an issue. That’s because CPS social workers don’t have special courses in sewage management.

The truth is more like this.  Nobody paid much attention to this until Nicole put up photos of the various incarnations of outhouses (mostly abandoned before being finished) and finally the last great effort, that filthy awful particle-board thing.  And I, along with some other folks, started asking the question.

What are they doing with the contents of the bucket?

quote 2

. . . every effort to put my family in harms [sic] way.

That’s so ludicrous it defies logic.  In harm’s way?  What?  I blog, Nicole.  How is that putting your family “in harm’s way”?

. . . to try to get us to move.

Nope. Don’t care if you move.  If you move, I will continue to write.  I don’t care where you live.

What I want you to do is quit begging online.  That’s it. I want you to quit pretending to be “homesteading,” when what you really are is homeless. I want you to quit with all the “simpler lifestyle” crap, when what you really are is broke. Just stop.

And I have absolutely no influence over the health department in Breckinridge County. I know not one single person there. I have never been there. I don’t know where it is. I don’t know their phone number.

I just blog.

quote 3

They got a notice.

Nicole doesn’t appear to know how to rotate a photo, so I’m doing it for her.  Here, so you can read it, is the notice.

notice

Notice what it says?

. . . inadequate treatment and disposal of human waste above ground.

Notice what it does not say?

Contamination

Do you see that word?  I do not.

When we were engaged in beer drinking with Joe last Friday night, he carried on quite a bit about diapers and run-off and contamination.  That’s because it appears that his neighbor has found, at the very least, some of the Naugler trash on his land.  This is really not hard for me to believe.

Remember, I’ve been there.

That place, the Naugler place, is strewn with trash. It looks like an inner-city neglected playground. The only thing lacking is a wall with graffiti.  I don’t know if the Nauglers just toss their trash around, or if they set bags of trash outside and the dogs get into it and they do the tossing, but somebody does.  The trash does not walk there.

So, the idea that some of this trash might end up at the neighbor’s place is not outside the set of “possible.”

The rest, the whole “contamination” thing, I have no way to determine.  One reason is that I have no idea where they are dumping the shit. She won’t tell us, except to make some vague reference to a supposed compost heap, covered with a tarp (which would make it all just smell lovely), in the back of the Blessed Little Property.  Only elsewhere, she or Joe said something about multiple compost heaps.  So who knows.

But anyway, the letter just says “Hey, Naugs, you can’t dispose of your shit above ground.”  Period.

Okay, so supposedly Joe spoke with Jeremy Hinton the next day and he said the “C” word.  Really?  Did he? I thought Joe recorded everything.  In fact, Nicole made it easy for us by providing a linky to the recording.

phone call audio

Here’s a link.

You go listen.  Now then, did you hear Jeremy Hinton say “contamination”?  You didn’t because he didn’t. The person talking about “contamination” was Joe Naugler.  In fact, Joe did most of the talking which is much of the Naugler problem.

I’m reminded here of some lyrics from the musical “Hamilton.”  In “Aaron Burr, Sir,”  Hamilton is having a beer with Burr and Burr says,

While we’re talking, let me offer you some free advice
Talk less, smile more

Joe might consider those words.

Anyway, what Mr. Hinton said to Joe was basically, “Kentucky law does not allow you to dump raw sewage on the ground.”  And Joe insisted that it does.  Only I can’t find a place anywhere that says so.  Now that means, well, not very much because maybe it’s out there and I just haven’t found it, but really, I tried.

And the reporter “has been linked” to the “trolls.”

I could not tell you the reporter’s name.  I have no idea. I never spoke with the reporter (her?  him?)  I assume because Nicole wrote a whole blog post about “trolls” and named me by name that she considers me a “troll,” but I do not know this reporter.

quote 4

And see how Nicole and Joe set up a straw man (a logical fallacy) and then start to tear him down?

There is no reason to believe there is any contamination. . .

Nobody has accused them of that in any official document. Mr. Hinton didn’t accuse them of that.

What follows is the Blessed Little Trip to the health department in search of the elusive permit.  Naturally, they recorded it.

Let me digress a minute.

When we were planning our cruise, we realized that we would be docking in Copenhagen, Denmark, on May 17th.  That was the day of the Kentucky Democratic primary.  That meant that we needed to vote via absentee ballot.

So I contacted the clerk of court in our county and verified that we did, in fact, qualify to vote absentee. However, there was a fairly big problem, and one we just didn’t understand at first.  Kentucky law requires the clerk of court to mail absentee ballots to an out-of-state address under most circumstances (confinement in a hospital might qualify as an exception).  And the problem with that was that the ballot would need to be mailed to us in some distant location in such a way that we could get it, vote, and mail it back to Kentucky.

The clerk asked me, “Where will you be?”

My answer was, “In the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.”

star

So, as you can see, there was a problem. The clerk of court had not the slightest idea what to do about it. She simply had her rules. The ballot had to be mailed out of state. Furthermore, they didn’t even have any ballots and couldn’t print any until they got clearance to do so and she didn’t really know when that would be.

We were leaving the USA on April 10.

It is our right that we should be able to vote.  We know that. The clerk knows that.

We could have gone into the clerk’s office and raised holy hell and produced a copy of the US Constitution and talked over her and carried on about “Article Thus-and-So” and totally pissed her off and we wouldn’t have been able to vote.

But instead, we went to the clerk’s office (actually, Dave went once and then we both went the second time because I had to sign for my own ballot) and we worked it out.  We were nice.  They were nice.

We came up with a Plan A and a Plan B. Two different out-of-state addresses, one in Florida, the other in Copenhagen, Denmark (we docked there three times during our trip).  If the ballots were mailed before a certain date, they went to Florida.  If they were mailed after that date, they went to Copenhagen, to our B&B.  I contacted the B&B people and they were happy to get the ballots, hold them for our arrival  and we’d fill them in and get them to mail them back to the USA for us.

As it turned out, they were mailed to a friend’s house in Florida, and got there before our ship sailed. The friend met us at the airport, we went to dinner, and filled the ballots out, and she mailed them the following day, April 11, in plenty of time to get to Kentucky.

But here’s the deal. We are the ones who had to bend.  They couldn’t.  They can’t change the rules to suit every individual who walks in the door.  They had to mail the ballots out of state.  So we worked around that and satisfied their requirements and we voted successfully.  And furthermore, the clerk called me on the day she mailed the ballots and said, “Success!  I am mailing your ballots to Florida today.”  She was all happy about it. I was delighted.  Dave was delighted.  Even our friend in Florida thought it was fun.

So, Joe and Nicole went to the health department and badgered a woman who worked there to get a permit that simply doesn’t exist.  The woman had no such permit.  It’s not her fault. And Joe and Nicole should have known before going in there that they didn’t have such a permit.

Listen to the audio.  Joe is belligerent and hostile.  He goes in there prepared to do battle with a woman behind a desk.  (Joe is typically very hostile to women—the menacing conviction is an example— but has a beer with the guys.)

Then they got a letter, Nicole says.  Here it is.

extension letter

In the letter, Mr. Hinton tells them that he’s extending the deadline because he failed to tell them how to fix the problem.  That’s fair.

How could they fix the problem?

Get a septic system. Either get a new one, or fix the old one.  Get it inspected and approved.  And then he tells them that he’s happy to meet with them on their property to talk about it.

Notice that there’s nothing in there about “contamination.”  The issue is simple.  There is no approved method of dealing with sewage, so get one.  If you wanna talk about it, call me.

They didn’t, of course. Instead, they called the state dude, who told them exactly the same thing Mr. Hinton did.

But of course, Nicole and Joe know more about everything than anyone else.

Anybody watch Nicole’s nauseating little vlog done while she’s grooming a dog?

Notice how she emphasizes that they are just beginners and are making mistakes and why is everybody always picking on them?  They are just beginners.  So humble.  So sweet.  So fake.

If that’s true, why are they calling the fucking Department of Agriculture and when they don’t like what he tells them, going online and declaring that this “display(s) the complete ignorance of the state”?  If they are just beginners, maybe they have got this all wrong?  Maybe they do not know what the fuck they are talking about?

difference

One of her followers had this to say.

idiot

Nicole seems to have no idea that Becky Blass is a blithering idiot.  In Becky’s opinion, it’s all the same, human or animal.  And Nicole thinks that is fine.  This isn’t the only instance of this sort of stupidity being displayed on Nicole’s wall and she never corrects it.  She obviously doesn’t know any better, and this is enough to warrant never giving her any permit to handle human sewage, ever, under any circumstances.

 

quote 5

See all the pejorative language?

. . . neither party understands. . .

. . . ignorance of the matter has led to bias.

They sent it to the court, which was exactly the right thing to do.

summons

quote 6

The original issue wasn’t “contamination,” as I have clearly shown. The original issue was dumping raw sewage on the ground, and having no approved and inspected waste disposal system.

Even if our compost was leeching, it wouldn’t effect my neighbors.

Dear Flying Spaghetti Monster, Nicole, you moron, please learn how to spell.  The words are “leaching” and “affect.”

The two videos she links to show nothing at all worth bothering with.  They do not show the Blessed Little Compost Heap.

What are you doing with the shit?

quote 7

We are contesting the contamination aspect.

Which, of course, is not the issue at all.

We do need to file for permits and have a site inspection.  Which I have agreed to since the beginning.

Oh, Nicole, you are such a liar.

haven't refused inspection

doing it wrong

Uh, that is exactly what Joe was in court for. Doing it wrong.  That’s what it clearly says. Doing it wrong.

contamination again

Quote from the citation:

. . . inadequate treatment and disposal of human waste above ground.

Do you see an accusation of “contamination” anywhere there?

I’ve not refused inspection.

I will stand my ground.

invoke right

lawyer present

What do you call these remarks, Nicole?  You are a liar.  You just plain lie.

good shot

The black-out name is one of the children, and not one of the oldest boys.  A child.

security

2nd amendment

And this is what is most troubling.

Even after Jeremy Hinton offers to come out and talk with them on their property, Nicole carries on about lawyers and the 4th Amendment and standing her ground, and worse, the 2nd Amendment.

I know I have said this before, but the Blessed Little Excursion last week taught me something.

Nicole is not mistaken about all this.  She knows how to read. Her comprehension isn’t very good, but she can read English.  She knows what this is about.  She knows it’s not about “contamination.”  She’s not misunderstanding anything. She’s way smarter than Joe.  He’s just all bluster and blather and has to ask her about everything, including what you call this  :  (a colon).  (In the video at the health department)

Nicole is not mistaken.

Nicole is lying.

UPDATE:

inconvenience

We did not have a permit.

And there’s the whole problem in a nutshell.  Not only that, Nicole and Joe are very unlikely to get a permit.  That’s because the state of Kentucky does not approve dumping sewage on top of the ground. There are good reasons for this.

The main one is that in order to do it correctly, the resultant compost bin(s) have to be maintained properly.  And Nicole has demonstrated quite adequately by her idiotic remarks (“what’s the difference”) on FB that she has no idea what “maintained properly” means.

She blithely waves her copy of the Humanure Handbook around but very likely has never actually read it.

And she’s the smart one in the family.  Joe is clueless without her.

If anything, by definition, the state is the nuisance.

I know Nicole and Joe want to live in a stateless society like Somalia.  They are free to move there tomorrow. I’ll help them pack.

In the meantime, the rest of us have a say in what they do. Funny how Nicole bitches and moans and actually calls the sheriff’s office because I rode down her “private” road and somebody took photos and Kyle gave Joe a beer and that infringes on her “rights,” but her neighbor is supposed to just suck it up when he discovers that the Nauglers are dumping human waste on the ground and refuse to allow anyone to inspect it to be sure it’s not a hazard.

In Nicole’s twisted mind, laws only apply to me and Al and the neighbor and the other local critics. They do not apply to her, ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

47 thoughts on “Oh Shit”

  1. Excellent post Sally. I was unaware of the videos until seeing this. I found it quite comical to hear her say she didn’t like being “degraded”. Comical, because she’s made it very clear that I am a “creepy guy of questionable sexuality and that I quite probably perform a very dangerous job while wholly inebriated”. She has used my name and made allegations and accusations that are completely unjustified and outright false. i.e. as you clearly prove, she is lying.

    People are seeing through this bullshit and it’s a matter of time.

    Thanks for pointing out the hypocrisies and subjectivity they use in an effort to convince others of their innocence and piety.

  2. Nicole has done nothing but lie since this train wreck came to light . She lied about why the kids were taken. She lied about what the GFM would be used for. She lied about building a cabin. She lied about someone driving across country to kill a dog. She lied about following the “troll pages”. She lied about calling employers . She lied about making fake profiles to harass people. The list goes on and on, but it’s late and I need to go to bed . Exposing her lies would take all night.

  3. Here theme song should be Gwen Stefani “Hollarback Girl”.

    This my shit, this my shit
    This my shit, this my shit
    This my shit, this my shit
    This my shit, this my shit

  4. “Even if our compost was leeching, it wouldn’t effect my neighbors”
    …and the Naugler children don’t count?

  5. Mim I guess her kids don’t count.
    I feel really bad for those kids. I honestly don’t know how they survive without government assistance. They have 13 mouths to feed,all those animals, rent on the land, rent and utilities at her grooming business. I know there are months we struggle and we are only a family of 4.

  6. Very good, Sally. Great clarification. Especially on what Joe and Nicole don’t seem to comprehend. And it’s no wonder people following on her BLH page and blog may not absorb, with her biased information.

    One thing I’ve noticed in the audio tape of the phone call with the Environmentalist. Joe and Nicole enjoy confrontational and aggressive approaches. The Environmentalist managed it well. He allowed Joe to ramble on, often confrontational, and he listened. And then said something to the effect, “guess we will let the court decide”. And a quick, “have a nice day”, before hanging up.

    Joe and Nicole, what’s so complicated in comprehending that you need a permit and an inspection? Everything else is rather moot, until that is completed. It is a state citizen’s responsibility to know the laws and regulations. It’s the agency’s role to maintain compliance of the regulations.

    Here is an analogy that may be simpler to comprehend. There is a lake nearby, with posted signs, “no fishing”. But you have a fishing license. And rods and bait. Yes, you can fish in Kentucky. No, you cannot fish at this lake. Department of Fish and Wildlife agents will enforce the posted sign. Period.

    One must apply for a permit for human waste disposal management. And have your system inspected according to codes and regulations. There is no gray area to dispute, it’s either in compliance of established codes, or it is not. Yes, you can have a human waste disposal system. No, you cannot have above ground shit piles. Period.

    Yeah, the Environmentalist sounds like a reasonable professional. He sure doesn’t deserve the arrogance displayed by Nicole, in the couple of her posts. Where she suggested he needs to do his job. And is ignorant. And is giving favors. I think she went on also about needing to volunteer at the agency, show them how to do their job.

  7. I got curious about what it would take to get the septic system back into operation. Well, probably tens of thousands of dollars–but they had that at one point and spent it on Hardee’s and whatever. But if this property was always off grid, that suggests (unless previous tenants wanted to have a generator thumping away whenever they wanted to poop) that the thing was gravity powered. Like so:

    1. Put toilet on top of septic intake.
    2. Put bucket of water next to toilet.
    3. Use toilet.
    4. Dump water into toilet.
    5. Flush.
    6. Schedule regular maintenance with local honeywagon.

    They could’ve been doing this a year-plus ago, but instead it’s court battles and vlogging and this and that and blah blah blah. Don’t they ever get tired of doing everything in the most drawn-out and unproductive possible way?

  8. The reporter is a woman named Valerie Chinn.

    https://www.facebook.com/valerie.chinnwdrbtv/posts/1079760568728910

    She’s “connected to the haters” or whatever because they claimed she “liked” an anti-Naug FB page. Yeah, and I “liked” a pro-Trump page for the purpose of commenting on something. If she really did “like” an anti-Naug page, that could be because she was searching for information.

    Something the Nauglers don’t understand about accusations and getting evidence first is that there’s no point in getting evidence if there’s no accusation. Why would someone gather evidence without first accusing someone of doing wrong? You have reason to believe wrong is being done, you make an accusation, you get evidence of that accusation. I think she’s mixing up accusations with convictions. Accusation->Evidence->Conviction/No Conviction

    I’m not sure if she’s even lying on purpose at this point, or if she lied to save face so many times that she believes it. Either way isn’t good.

  9. “It is a state citizen’s responsibility to know the laws and regulations.”

    KB, something I’ve always thought was really annoying is how individuals are expected to know what government workers and lawyers don’t. As a private citizen, Nicole is expected to know all the laws and regulations, but we excuse whatever social workers who went out to the property last year because they aren’t public health department workers and so shouldn’t be expected to know. We wouldn’t expect a tort attorney to be an expert in family law, but private citizens are expected to know it all.

    I think it should be a citizen’s responsibility to try their reasonable best to stay within the law on these things, and their absolute responsibility to get into compliance if it’s pointed out by expects that they’re not in compliance. They have been told they’re out of compliance, and now need to work on getting into line.

  10. Kaylee wrote, ” As a private citizen, Nicole is expected to know all the laws and regulations, but we excuse whatever social workers who went out to the property last year because they aren’t public health department workers and so shouldn’t be expected to know.”

    They weren’t sanitation experts and Nicole insists that she is a humanure expert. With the small problem that she isn’t doing it properly to begin with and she absolutely refuses to recognize that human feces is a problem and that dumping it in a pile, randomly, is a still bigger problem.

    Yes, it can be frustrating as hell to be a citizen who has to know all the rules but what most reasonable citizens do is talk to people who are aware of the rules. They could have chatted with the business that provided the porta-potty – they know about septic systems. I bet they could have told them what they needed to know about theirs (for a price). They had money just last year and they chose to spend it foolishly.

  11. They will never invest money into the land or anything they can’t pack up and take with them. Most people would have taken the gfm money and invested in the betterment of their children. Fix the road, have cabin set off the road, have cistern installed, inspect current septic and install or repair septic, etc. even the fencing they did buy was the cheapest crap they could find. That cabin is probably rent to own too. I highly doubt they forked over that much cash for it. That way when they bolt the company can take it back. They would rather blow the money on cheeseburgers and dollar tree toys.

  12. Why would someone gather evidence without first accusing someone of doing wrong?

    The sequence would really be Suspicion->Some Sort of Evidence->Accusation->More Evidence->Conviction/No Conviction

    You have to have “probable cause” to bring charges against somebody.

    And that caused me to go look at the post, and I realized I left out an image. I just corrected that. The summons (which is the image I forgot to put in the original piece) says clearly that “probable cause” exists to believe that a crime has been committed. The crime is listed as failing to comply with the notice to get a proper permit and inspection of a legal waste disposal system. I suspect that Nicole and Joe promptly got a porta-potty because they believe that they can point to that and say, “See, we did so comply” and get the case tossed out. They know exactly what the charges are.

  13. Kaylee,

    The Commonwealth publishes a pamphlet and pdf online on proper sewage waste disposal. The thing could be followed by any child and even has cartoon illustrations. It’s not rocket science to understand that it is the land owner and/or occupant who is responsible for knowing one of the very few restrictions on land use in that county. Not only that but I would almost bet the matter is covered in the lease agreement seeing as how the land company isn’t exactly new to this game.

    Seriously, do you think the CPS workers didn’t have enough on their plate than to go and inspect the inside of the many manifestations of outhouses to see whether there was a pit under wooden toilets. Who in their wildest dreams would think the family was pooping in buckets. Having still seen zero evidence of 3 years of any type of compost pile, nevermind humanure pile, what should the CPS worker have been looking for? All these photos and videos of the property by the family and by various news agencies and has anyone seen any evidence of a compost pile? I haven’t. Funny that. The bullcrap is deep.

    Note to the blessed Mrs. The legal definition of nuisance and the Webster’s definition are two quite distinct things. It would behoove you to note the difference. Not that it matters in the situation at this point. Your credibility as to honesty and your blatant disregard both for your community and the environment denote a careless disregard for anyone but yourself, imho.

  14. but we excuse whatever social workers who went out to the property last year because they aren’t public health department workers and so shouldn’t be expected to know.

    It’s not that the social workers didn’t know that dumping raw sewage on the ground is a no-no (anyone except Nicole’s followers knows that, and even many of her followers know it and just won’t say it very loudly). It’s that a casual glance at their “outhouse” would lead one to believe that there is a HOLE in the ground. Outhouses are not unusual in Kentucky, so they really wouldn’t have had reason to even ask about it.

    Nicole brought this on them because she is arrogant as hell and believes that she knows more than anyone else. She put up photos and then refused to answer any questions about the final resting place of the sewage. And that raised red flags. Nicole is happy to take pictures and videos of everything, as we all know, so it was odd when she kept being vague about the supposed “compost heap.”

  15. Kaylee – I sound a bit peevish but I wanted to clarify something – I’m not peeved with you.

    I had a few other thoughts:
    1) There was a house on that property until it was burned down in 2011/2012. It had a septic system so it could be inspected
    2) I recall Nicole stating there was a cistern on the property – that could also be fixed
    3) Even if the cistern is no longer viable, another one could be procured and installed – that water could be used to flush a toilet or at least dump into the septic system (if it’s usable and if not, get one built that is up to code and will not affect the aquifer)
    4) This is Kentucky, there is sufficient rainfall over the course of a year to provide plenty of water for flushing a toilet or dumping in after a bucket of human waste has been collected, into a (working) septic system
    5) Southern Italy, home of Rome, there were cisterns set up. Some were adequate for an entire neighborhood ( http://id-archserve.ucsb.edu/courses/arthistory/152k/water.html )
    6) Rome, Italy has less annual rainfall than Kentucky on AVERAGE (Total annual Precipitation averages 837.3 mm (33 inches) which is equivalent to 837.3 Litres/m² (20.54 Gallons/ft²).
    7) This is Frankfort, Kentucky but I’m going to go out on a limb and surmise that Custer, KY isn’t too much different (Average annual precipitation – rainfall: 43.59 inch )

    Three years and no cistern or water collection in evidence is fairly damning evidence all on its own. Plus everything else.

  16. Kaylee, most people know there are laws and regulations and permits on just about everything. One wants to drive, you know there is a license requirement and you find out what is required to apply for the license. There are even rules, like in my neighborhood. We have a neighborhood Homeowner’s Association. They aren’t laws, but added rules and regulations to damper nuisance activities, for the benefit of all the residents.

    I don’t particularly like that we have so many laws and regulations, like you said, for the average citizen to keep up with. But I’ll go as far as saying it is probably because of people like the Nauglers, that cause so many rules, regulations, permits and laws! Blame it on the Naugs! Because even when they are made aware of a needed permit, her self-righteous arrogance.

    So the next time you are feeling frustrated or annoyed at the minutia of regulations, rules and laws, figure it was someone like the Nauglers who forced the hand.

  17. Ugh. Hearing Joe’s heavy panting i the second video as he berates that poor Secretary… 😷😲😷

    She doesn’t care about your issues Joe!

    And the fact he brags about no one wanting to touch their cases… Gross!

  18. One of these days your going to see one of them grab a gun. This is how it starts , someone feels slighted and the only solution is to grab a gun and get rid of the problem , just started down the NN rabbit hole and its apparent those two are short of reaching insane

  19. I’m betting the Nauglers read that second letter from Mr. Hinton, and saw “… have an approved septic system installed and inspected.” And think they are home free with a porta potty.
    Hey, the porta potty is “installed and inspected”.
    Joseph and Nicole probably got all excited, high fived each other and laughed with glee. ” we win we win!…And our neighbor’s can go to hell!”
    No reason now for any one to come on their property and snoop around.
    This is Naugler think.
    The years of poop plopped on the ground no longer count because they weren’t told to take care of it in the second letter. And I’ll bet they think they can find an amendment in the Constitution to prove they are right.
    If the evil Health Environmentist pursues the above ground poop disposal the “Naglers” will scream government, neighborhood and evil troll harassment.

    Wanna bet?

  20. Nicole wrote many negative posts and posted article after article about CPS workers after the children were placed in foster care. She has very low opinion of CPS workers to put it mildly.

    Yet, she believes they have a complete understanding of how composting Human waste works?

    Oh…Nicole. You such an idiot. And this is putting it mildly.

  21. Ummm, I’m sure someone has pointed this out already, in the health department permit video. But Joe doesn’t know what a : (colon) is. He is in charge of education of children?!? This explains so much, about his writing style, rather lack there of.
    As for the rest of this, it’s up to homesteaders, any adult really, to find and abide by the laws. Whether it’s fencing animals, registering to homeschool (or in Joe’s case non-schooling), or obtaining a permit for waste management. You know, adulting things.
    My story isn’t theirs, but having been severely poor, for our area, and pulling out of it in 3 years. I’m so confused by the nonexistent forward progress. I hope the older boys look into education and employment training. If anything as a means to an end of giving their siblings, and themselves a better future then abject poverty.

  22. One of these days your going to see one of them grab a gun.

    I do not want to incite anything. The Nauglers’ penchant for invoking their “2nd Amendment right” is troubling. And I would hesitate to call either of the Naugler parents “insane.” They are both poster-children for “irresponsibility,” but they really don’t exhibit any symptoms that I can see of psychosis.

    If Nicole is psychotic, then so are thousands of other people who embrace various conspiracy theories, and “voluntaryism” and who are convinced that the government exists for the sole reason of harassing them.

    I’ve seen real psychosis, and they aren’t that.

  23. And think they are home free with a porta potty.

    Technically, they are. They are also on the hook for a nice bill every month.

  24. Could they be sued by neighbors or the county if the ground is indeed found to be contaminated by human waste?

  25. Yes absolutely as a private citizen Nicole is supposed to know all the laws and regulations about a system that is not in compliance with local laws and in fact NN arrogantly profess to have this knowledge. So much so she has stated she is being forced to do the officials jobs and teach them the laws. If one, NN for example, professes to know so much about these laws, I don’t think it is a case of complicated and difficult law at all, as Lisa above stated.
    Rather Nicole Naugler hates and despises to be told by anyone in authority that she “must” do anything. Doesn’t matter the issue , her response is always, ‘make me! Her analogy is to not back a dog in a corner and she imagines herself as a lioness fighting against every supposed opposition of her will. Matters not the issue.
    For over 50 years my family has dealt with inspectors on a daily basis, and from multimillion hospital projects to decks, the inspectors will ALWAYS win. And smart people know that a good working relationship with the inspectors is the best way to quickly and most economically get in compliance. If you back an inspector into a corner you will lose every time and they always have the time, muscle and annoyance to see this happen. And they don’t forget either, not out of malice but because they will view your ethics as someone who is attempting to cheat or get over on the laws. They too can be very stubborn. Now, some rules are open to the interpretation of an inspector some are not, it is your responsibility 100% to know these laws. But you don’t get a vote.
    Nicole Naugler is not smart. She has developed a reputation in her community as a cheat and liar, imo. It matters not one bit if she does or doesn’t understand the laws, she has been told what needs to change. Inspectors don’t tell you how to change a situation that is your problem. Seems a portajohn is now on the property. We’ll see.

  26. I was a industrial electrician for 37 years but did side jobs as a residential electrician, the best relationship you could have was with the inspector,, he could be your best friend or your worst enemy. If you treated him with respect he did the same to you, this is something the Nauglers will never learn

  27. Tekla, right. They’re made aware of the rules, and that’s where they should be expected to know them, which is why they’re given time to get into compliance. I don’t think any of us can be expected to have the time required to study in depth all the laws for everything, and I don’t think most local government agencies do either. They were informed, and beyond that is when they can no longer claim reasonable ignorance.

    Sally, right, my little accusation-evidence-conviction/no conviction wasn’t comprehensive. Nicole was asking how an accusation was made before all the evidence gathered, and I was pointing out that I think she’s confusing accusations and convictions.

    KB, I’m not frustrated that there are rules, or at all, and was just commenting in reply to someone saying basically that everyone should know all the rules and laws when we don’t even expect experts to do that, and even if someone reads a law, they might not understand. But regardless, once they were told by the county about a rule they weren’t following, and were given time to comply, they couldn’t claim they didn’t know anymore, and the notice is so clear that they can’t claim to not understand. They just don’t agree, and where they don’t understand is that there can be laws at all governing private property.

    FB Refugee, no, no private citizen should be expected to know (and then understand) ALL the laws and regulations for everything (especially when laws can sometimes contradict each other), and sometimes things that seem like normal things can have rules and be illegal. I’ll use collecting rainwater as an example. Who would expect laws that ban collecting it on your own property? Legal entirely in Kentucky, illegal big time where I live. Attorneys go to school for many years to be experts in just one area. Literally no one can be an expert in all things. But like I said above, they were informed, clearly. That’s where they lose getting to claim not knowing.

    I’m not defending their non-compost at all, just that it was reasonable at one time that they might not have understood the local laws. They know now, and are fighting it, which puts them at a clear wrong, and as I’ve said, they need to get into compliance. What they’re doing is so gross that I feel like I need to go bathe in bleach just thinking about it.

    What they don’t understand at this point is not the laws about human waste, but about how there can be laws governing private property at all. They disagree with the laws because they don’t understand the reason for laws. The point of laws isn’t to inconvenience us, but rather to make sure we don’t harm each other. Banning smoking weed on your own property is an overreach. Who is being affected? Banning dumping shit on the ground isn’t overreach because that’s affecting and harming others.

  28. They still are expected to “remove health nuisances”, caused by disposing human waste above ground. That wasn’t settled by getting a porta potty. And it’s not why the court is going after them…
    Am I right?
    What happens next? (like an adult Sesame Street scene)

  29. And we have found that if you’re nice to inspection folks, you can learn some stuff. They actually do know what they are doing most of the time. Some are more hard-ass than others, but still.

  30. I’m no health department expert. But if you notice, the letter explaining how to “comply” did not list a port a potty. Seems he would know about those, and mention it as a solution if that would really work. It may be that the health department is also wondering where all the grey water is going. The Nauglers claim to haul in water and bathe in a tub on the homestead. She shows pictures of muddy kids and claims they can wash them off on the homestead. Even if they do laundry at the shop, WHERE do they dump all the dish, bath, handwashing, and poo bucket rinsing water?

  31. WHERE do they dump all the dish, bath, handwashing, and poo bucket rinsing water?

    Good question. Gray water has many of the same dangers inherent in sewage.

  32. Bea, that is a great question. Just the poo-bucket rinsing water alone is enough to raise serious concern. blech.

  33. No, of course no one is expected to know ALL the laws, that is not what I am saying. I am saying we are absolutely 100% expected to perform within all laws and legal restriction in each locality specific to each and every trade or phase of building we may be responsible for AND if we are not in compliance it is 100% our responsibility to research, hire professional specialists, or attorneys for advisement on how to fully bring us into compliance and in so doing KNOW that law for that phase in that specific locality. It is not the inspectors problem to tell us HOW to fix an issue, it is ours. And we do that through research and if needed, legal and professional advice or help. It certainly helps if you have a good relationship with your inspectors and have developed a reputation as a fair and honest individual or company. Ignorance of the law, trying as hard as you can, being a beginner, lack of money or time, following a “how to book” and touting it as a perfectly correct method and such as I’ve read from NN won’t move an issue into compliance. Nor will the old favorite, ‘were persecuted by a corrupt system’ help move an issue forward. I will wait to see if her present solution (at least what she has publicly shown) is acceptable according to the local laws and regulations under which she is required to abide by, and specific to the issues which the Nauglers have been cited.

  34. Not surprised at all that the woman at the health department didn’t have a permit form handy. How many times in her career do you suppose that:

    1. Someone entered her office with a lack of awareness that you cannot fling human waste around with impunity; and

    2. A residential homeowner requested a permit to “compost” above ground?

    You may have a point if you argue that #2 is becoming relatively common (intended pun). However I would counter that the vast majority of those who opt to take on the added work of composting are passionate about the subject and would already have obtained and completed all required permits from the appropriate state authority well before they wash up on the shores of a local health department inspector.

  35. I Shake my head (but I am a relatively reasonable person whereas Nicole and Joe are not). Their favorite go to for the present any time they are held accountable for breaking the law, is to say that ‘whoever’ is unlawfully interfering. No, Nicole and her husband never win whenever they get prosecuted and they are shown to be the unlawful ones. Prosecution or not they do excel at being a nuisance. As they are such nuisances they are they should thank the blessed little stars for the law because without it they would have discovered that the anarchy they advocate for would not have protected them from someone meaner and bigger than them.

  36. FB Refugee, I think we’re actually in agreement on almost everything except the point that we can point at them and start screaming at them. Someone following the laws to the best that they know and understand them, but who isn’t in compliance, but who corrects the situation when the proper authority lets them know, is someone I’m not going to get mad at. We really can’t be expected to consult attorneys for literally everything we do to make sure there aren’t non-obvious laws, especially poor people. Someone following the laws to the best that they know and understand them, but who isn’t in compliance, then fights it because the government exists only to tell /other/ people what to do needs a swift kick in the ass.

    The Naugs know now. They can’t even claim they don’t know now. I don’t know if they knew they were out of compliance earlier, or if they thought they were doing it right. What matters is they know NOW, but are fighting it.

  37. Kaylee, I think the Nauglers DID know that you can’t dump raw human sewage on the ground to dispose of it. I think after the waste of 10 people started to become a mountain of shit, they started exploring what to do with it and came across humanure. From what I’ve read, they aren’t even following the guidelines in the handbook so what do they really care about any environmental issues past, present, or future anyways. They are just being crafty trying to pass off their piles of crap as a legit humanure operation which is fruitless anyways because you can’t dump untreated human waste on the ground! They tried to get away with it and failed.

    I do wonder where they are putting it. I don’t think it’s in the area shown in the two videos of the property line. The terrain is too rugged to carry 5 gallon buckets through and it’s too rough to use their wagon.

    I may be wrong, but did I hear Joe say it was open to the air? So much for covering it up to get some heat going if so.

  38. And this is also why it is not a DIY.
    Typically you submit an application for whatever project you are planning, something the Nauglers did not do, with plans, fees and studies (site, soil etc). It then goes through plan review. There your plans travel through each department involved with changes added or notes on required changes to your initial plans. Sometimes plans are simply stamped, “must comply”. You can then go to plan review for more information on what the non compliant specifics if you wish. It is still your problem to figure out how to make your project comply.
    Officials will not tell you the specifics because they are not going to assume the liability of needs and methods of constructability. This is why a licensed and insured professional is required. They know the codes and laws specific to that county/state and are assuming the liability.
    Then you begin your project with each phase inspected as required. There is a specific order and requirements needed before you are passed to proceed to the next phase. An inspector is only there to check that you are complying with what plan review has dictated. If you fail you often get one “free” pass to correct and after that it begins to cost, sometimes a lot when you are on a schedule and holding up the next phase.
    If you decide not to comply you can go back to plan review or an inspection supervisor for an amendment to your plan. You don’t get a vote here. Interpretation of code is held by the reviewer only, he is the judge, jury and final word. If you try to buck a senior reviewer you will probably screw yourself for life and need to move out of the state or quit your project. I suppose you could sue here but that would be essentially suing the state and you better have a lot of money, (and you’ll lose ). Besides inspectors will not make you tear down a building etc., you just need to comply like it or not. A good cooperative attitude goes a long way here and BS is not tolerated. Once your project finishes you are issued a CO or final inspection and then officially your project is complete and usable.

    Yes Kaylee, accepting rules and compliance with an established system made to protect all and a good attitude of cooperation will be the Nauglers major obstacles imo.

  39. From the comments at BLH blog:
    Peg. June 17, 2016 |
    If you are doing everything correctly, why are there never pictures of this process? Composting human waste is a very scientific process and not just a matter of having one of your kids hauling a bucket of crap out to a compost pile. Where is the photo evidence of this? Or the photo evidence that you are providing proper shelter for your children? Or the unschooling which apparently consists of days on the beach. Your family makes it very hard for real homesteading and homeschooling families. Grow up and start being parents will you?

    The Crow June 17, 2016 |
    I think a lot of you are missing the freaking point. Composting toilets are a pretty old technology. They’ve been used for a long time, and it’s not that difficult to do it correctly. So why does the state need to be involved? If there’s a complaint of material harm to an adjacent property, the property owner should be able to pursue civil action.

    At NO point does a government bureaucracy need to be involved in licensing and inspecting a hole in the ground into which crap is dumped. I mean seriously – is there a person at some government bureau whose job title is “shit-hole inspector?”

    And Peg. With all due respect, go screw yourself. And do remember, I said that with all due respect. The Naugler’s aren’t making anything harder for “real” homesteading and homeschooling families. You know who is? The government. Stop victim-blaming. If you want to be pissed about your lack of freedom, go find a politician. Blaming other people is exactly what they want you to do – shift the blame away from them. Grow up and start taking responsibility for yourself instead of trying to shift blame will you?

    You should be thanking the Nauglers for highlighting just how many freedoms have been stolen from you.

    *sigh* I think “The Crow” is one of the older Naugler children. Judging by the grammar and tone. Even if it isn’t, the commenter forgets that there are laws about composting. Laws that the Naugdults ignored and broke. Endangering the health and property of others. A violation of all that they supposedly stand for.

  40. At NO point does a government bureaucracy need to be involved in licensing and inspecting a hole in the ground into which crap is dumped

    There is no hole in the ground. There is no hole in the ground. There is no hole in the ground.

  41. More and more recently have I come to realize from following the Nauglers how incredibly selfish they are, to the point of literally damaging and destroying with arrogance others property. This is what they are teaching their children.
    Laws in place need to be strengthened and strictly enforced to protect everyone from the Nauglers and others like them, imo.

  42. I would like to address something that Crow said on the BLH blog that Mud referred to. Crow stated that the neighbor could file a civil suit if his land was materially damaged.

    Well Crow let me educate you further in regards to that lol. Yes the neighbor may decide at some point to file a civil suit in regards to the Nauglers being at fault for material damage to his property if there is any. One thing that will bolster the neighbor’s case if he SHOULD decide to go after the Naugler’s for damages would be a guilty finding in the criminal case. That guilty finding would most likely be presented as evidence in any civil proceedings.

  43. “… why the government needs to regulate composting human waste WHERE NO MATERIAL HARM to adjacent property, and no detectable environmental impact can be shown – WHY is the government involved before-hand?”

    Seriously? Are people this stupid? The answer is that human waste above ground is illegal and the reason for having permits and septic systems is so that no detectable (negative) environmental impact WILL be shown on the adjacent property. You don’t FIRST shit all over or pile it up so it will float down the hill with a hard rain and contaminate the pond and land and then we’ll tell you clean it up. You’re not supposed to do this – at all. IF Joe and Nicole had the slightest bit of humility, they would have gotten the septic system inspected. There was a house on that property not even 5 years ago and that house had an associated septic system.

    They’re burning green wood and endangering themselves (creosote-coated chimney), so I doubt anyone would give them a pass and presume they can and WILL compost human waste properly. I wouldn’t trust them. They don’t trust themselves because they’re not using it on their own garden despite having been doing this for several years and telling other people that this can and should be used on their food plots. Practice what you preach; eat food grown in your (composted – hahaha) shit. If it’s all fine and dandy, provide the world with the evidence.

  44. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4295866/

    PLoS Negl Trop Disv.9(1); 2015 JanPMC4295866 (note publication date!)

    Associations between Schistosomiasis and the Use of Human Waste as an Agricultural Fertilizer in China

    Highlights:

    Methodology/Principal Findings

    We conducted an open cohort study in 36 villages to evaluate the association between night soil use and schistosomiasis in a region of China where schistosomiasis has reemerged and persisted despite control activities. We tested 2,005 residents for Schistosoma japonicum infection in 2007 and 1,365 residents in 2010 and interviewed heads of household about agricultural practices each study year. We used an intervention attributable ratio framework to estimate the association between night soil use and S. japonicum infection. Night soil use was reported by half of households (56% in 2007 and 46% in 2010). Village night soil use was strongly associated with human S. japonicum infection in 2007. We estimate cessation of night soil use would lead to a 49% reduction in infection prevalence in 2007 (95% CI: 12%, 71%). However, no association between night soil and schistosomiasis was observed in 2010. These inconsistent findings may be due to unmeasured confounding or temporal shifts in the importance of different sources of S. japonicum eggs on the margins of disease elimination.

    Methodology/Principal Findings

    We conducted an open cohort study in 36 villages to evaluate the association between night soil use and schistosomiasis in a region of China where schistosomiasis has reemerged and persisted despite control activities. We tested 2,005 residents for Schistosoma japonicum infection in 2007 and 1,365 residents in 2010 and interviewed heads of household about agricultural practices each study year. We used an intervention attributable ratio framework to estimate the association between night soil use and S. japonicum infection. Night soil use was reported by half of households (56% in 2007 and 46% in 2010). Village night soil use was strongly associated with human S. japonicum infection in 2007. We estimate cessation of night soil use would lead to a 49% reduction in infection prevalence in 2007 (95% CI: 12%, 71%). However, no association between night soil and schistosomiasis was observed in 2010. These inconsistent findings may be due to unmeasured confounding or temporal shifts in the importance of different sources of S. japonicum eggs on the margins of disease elimination.

    Night soil use

    Human waste was used as an agricultural fertilizer in 56% and 46% of households surveyed in 2007 and 2010, respectively. Night soil was applied to all major summer and winter crops and by households across SES categories (Table 1). In 2007, 99% of households that planted one or more crops used chemical fertilizers. Night soil was usually gathered from sources within the household: in 2007, 8% of households with improved sanitation and 7% of households without improved sanitation reported using night soil from other households. Night soil was collected from all toilet types. Of those that used night soil in 2010, 91% of households with an anaerobic biogas digester, 94% with a triple compartment septic tank and 96% with an unimproved toilet reported removing waste from their toilet system to use as an agricultural fertilizer.

    Upshot: the Naugler adults aren’t prepared for what is likely to happen. No big surprise to the readers here, of course.

    Schistosomiasis is no joke.

    http://www.globalnetwork.org/schistosomiasis

  45. actually there are permits for composting humanure in kentucky, but they contacted the wrong people when it comes to getting the permits. they need to contact the Agency for Composting Regulations: Dept. for Environmental Protection Division of Waste Management Solid Waste Branch in Frankfort. Also when they do contact the correct people and get the permit needed to compost someone will come out and inspect the area and if it is set up wrong they will be told what to do to fix the problem. If they dont fix it then the permits will be moot. but i can say that no the compost system can not be above ground, they need to have an area dug out with proper supports around it, and a tarp laid inside to keep it from leaching. they can find many videos on how to make a humanure composting storage system on youtube…

  46. Here you go. This looks the applicable stuff.

    Of course, they aren’t gonna do all that. Much better to just pitch a fit and go to court. You can’t get sympathy from social media for following the rules.
    The Nauglers are the poster-children for why we have regulations in place.

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