Not My Kids

not my children

You’re right, Nicole. That is not your child.

college

These college students aren’t your children either.

McGill University

Or these.

dental students

Nor are these dental students.

football player

Nor is this ballplayer.

track

Nor this athlete.

lab worker

Nor this person.

graduation

Nor this girl.

teacher

Nor this teacher.

stomach virus

These are your children.

 

60 thoughts on “Not My Kids”

  1. Per NaturalChild.org
    One alternative approach is “unschooling”, also known as “natural learning”, “experience-based learning”, or “independent learning”.

    Those children learned a valuable lesson about food safety that day. Chalk up one for unschooling.

  2. None of these will ever her Nicole’s children unless the cycle of ignorance is broken . In a post she stated the children didn’t score well on the standardized tests. Of course not. They don’t have an educator qualified to even teach the basics. I cringe when O think of those children growing up and repeating the cycle of paranoia and poverty.

  3. They say a picture is worth 1,000 words; these pictures say it all. The hardships that are forced upon these children is nothing short of neglect. Well done, BLB. 🙁

  4. If anything the Naugler children are getting an education on how to live as a homeless person who refuses social services to improve their situation.

  5. All these young people learning and achieving, so vibrant and connected to our society, in contrast to the last photo, Nicole and Joe’s children hunched over retching in the dirt….. I got a big knot in my throat.

    I am a parent, and love children. My heart literally aches for the Naugler children. Their parents scream about personal freedoms, but they are controlling, cultish monsters. Enslaving their 11 children to lives without opportunities. Yes, they are monsters.

    Your children are not your children.
    They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
    They come through you but not from you,
    And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
    You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
    For they have their own thoughts.
    You may house their bodies but not their souls,
    For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
    which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
    You may strive to be like them,
    but seek not to make them like you.
    For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
    —-Khalil Gibran

  6. Oh the pancake incident, Nicole has three different stories about how that happened. Funny, it appears even she can’t get her own life stories straight.

    Nicole admits her children didn’t do well on the state tests to gauge where they are academically. But that’s ok. They have YouTube. Which is kind of amazing since they appear to be on a limited data plan.

    I bet none of those other children did well on any tests… Wait.

  7. Interesting, above that meme on facebook she posts this ted talk: http://ed.ted.com/featured/fFV0BAV1

    What she doesn’t get is the speaker, John Green (author of “The Fault in Our Stars”) went to a prep school and graduated from Kenyon College with double major in English and Religious studies. At the 5 minute mark he credits one of his schools to making him a learner.
    For the record, I have not listened to the entire ted talk. The parts I listened to he didn’t not say throw away traditional schools. In fact, at the very end he said these online learning communities have helped him as an adult to learn again but this time for learning sake. After listening to bits and pieces of the ted talk, I don’t think it is advocating what she thinks it is advocating. Go to about the 15 minute mark where he talks about learning communities and then 16:30 he talks further about what he believes. Not once I heard him say the internet will wipe out traditional schools.

    Right on NN, these above are not your kids and most likely your children will not be apart of true learning community on-line that John Green talks about because they haven’t been taught to learn, they have been taught to spew regurgitated rhetoric.

  8. BTW- I hope the kids learning and education fair better than what is being displayed to the public. However, I have little hope with what comes out of NN and JN’s online presence.

  9. “If anything the Naugler children are getting an education on how to live as a homeless person who refuses social services to improve their situation.”

    They are also getting lessons on how to be a good whore of the state and a lazy ass unemployed bum. Despite the Nauglers constant denial that they do not use social services that are untrue. Joe and Nicole have learned how to play the system, be it the state, the Mormon church welfare system, good hearted folks on Go Fund Me with their sidekick Pace Ellsworth who is probably teaching them the ropes of bitcoin fraud as we speak.

    [ADMIN: I am editing parts of this because you’re making blanket assertions without evidence to back them up. ]

    You can bet Nicole and her fuck man are whores of the state.

  10. That last photo gets me every time I see it.
    I can’t understand the thought process of a Mother who would take a photograph of her ill children let along post it on a public site. That should have been the last thing on her mind.
    As for them being outside on the ground like that. I don’t get that at all.

    As the Mother of an autistic ADD child, I am glad that my child took medication for a time. It helped him to concentrate. They didn’t just prescribe it – he had to undergo a double blind trial first to see if it helped – it did.
    He came off his medication himself at 11 as he learnt ways to deal with his condition at the special school he went to.
    He achieved great results in all his testing and went on to main stream school and then college where he still has access to an Autistic specialist.
    He has just been accepted at University which is a great achievement. One that he may not achieved without taking meds when he was younger.

    Thankfully, I can say “that could be my child” to all but the last photo.

  11. If parents want to homeschool, that is their choice. If they want to unschool, that is their choice also. I’m very supportive of parents who choose to do either.

    However, the Naugler children are doing neither. They live in filth. They are brainwashed by their parents’ anti-government beliefs, and they have very little interaction with the world outside of their “homestead”. Sure, Nicole posts cute pictures of the kids doing crafts and looking at supply catalogs, under the guise of “homeschooling”, but I shudder to think about the results to any academic tests they would take.

    If any one of those children ASKED to go to school, I am sure the answer would be NO. The Nauglers would not allow it. Too much government intervention and brainwashing in schools? I doubt it. The real reason is that the childrens’ interactions with teachers, principals, and school staff on a daily basis might turn up some things that would not bode well for the Nauglers…

  12. She will of course — spin this into an attack on her children and family. It isn’t. Any reasonable, thinking, intelligent person can see that.

    Which is why she will spin it and her enablers will raise their torches and scream “foul”.

    But smart people will see it for what it is.

    Reality.

    Very disturbing and stark reality.

  13. These children need a real education. And not one from a bitter, anti-government mother with a high school degree—who aspires for her daughter to become a dog groomer like her. Not from a shiftless, pothead father whose stream of consciousness only demonstrates his expertise in meandering, run-on sentences.

    The world has produced greatness: Madame Curie, Mozart, the great philosophers that Nicole likes to quote in memes, Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, Wilt Chamerlain, Barishnikov, Kandinsky, Truman Capote, Bill Gates, the list goes on. Scientists, composers, humanitarians, athletes, dancers, artists, writers, computer geniuses.

    Did all of these people go to “school”. Mostly. There is no guarantee if the Naugler children go to a real school, that any of them will become like those people. But it’s a sure guarantee that back at the homestead, they probably won’t even learn about who those people are/were, and won’t ever have the chance to emulate them.

    There is a place for every type of person in this world. From the surgeon to the sanitation worker. Each role has its value. However you will never know where you belong in life without the exposure to many things, and opportunity to try. That happens at school.

    Aim for the stars. If you land in the gutter, so be it. Don’t aim for the gutter to begin with.

  14. She published that meme? Dogging children on her public page because she thinks she is better than you or me? She should be ashamed, so ashamed. If a child, their parents and doctors have come to an informed decision to medicate who is she to denigrate it? Plus, the meme, as are most if not all of her memes, is misleading and untrue.

  15. First, Nicole posted the original meme. Publicly. Her smug attitude irritates me, as though somehow she is superior to all other people on earth because she refuses to allow her children to obtain an education. (And that’s what she’s doing. They are not being educated, and they will lack all sorts of opportunities as the years go by.)

    Second, the children are off-limits here in the following ways: I avoid using their names. I try to remove their names from comments if I can, although I know some slip by me from time to time. I blur their faces, always. I will not allow her children to post comments here. I do not make fun of the children, ever, and denigrate their accomplishments. I am not, however, going to pretend that Joe and Nicole don’t have any children. We all know they do. The whole world knows they do. They have made sure of that.

    Third, if you look carefully at the photo of the sick kids on the ground, you will notice that it was posted, not to her blog (which is public, by the way), but to her Facebook page, which is very public and has in excess of 45,000 “likes.” That is hardly private and just shared with friends and family.

    Fourth, I’m happy to see that Nicole and her little followers enjoyed the post. Nicole, of course, will try to maximize the impact of it in order to facilitate begging, but I expect that.

  16. I love how Nicole likes to paint it as we are denigrating her children. Nothing could be further from the truth. What we are denigrating is her parenting (or should I say her non-parenting) of her children. There are more pictures she proudly posted of her children filthy in torn clothing. Just recently she posted a picture of the baby wearing a shirt that looked like it had not been washed in weeks. Now who is responsible for caring and parenting the children? Who is responsible for the children getting food poisoning because of unsanitary food storage? Who is responsible for seeing that laundry is done? The children? HELL NO!!!!!! That would be the responsibility of the parents to the children. So when Nicole tries to say we are denigrating her children, know that we are not. The children are victims of the piss poor parenting of Joe and Nicole.

  17. Angel H – Congratulations to you and your son! It’s always a crap shoot when it comes to children and how/when they will mature and what they will do as adults. May I ask, did he always score high or relatively high on the “grit factor” or the delayed gratification test? Presuming he took one or both. Did he take tests like that years apart? I have one child who scored high on both when 5 and again at 12. I know – completely nosy and off-topic but I love longitudinal studies. Particularly when one of the participants has worked so hard and done so well. Again – congratulations to your family.

    Nicole has a HS diploma. Joe has that and an associate’s degree. Yet neither of them are interested in providing the education necessary for any of their kids to more readily achieve their dreams and goals in the future. I recall when Nicole said one of her children was more likely to own a franchise than work in one. Completely overlooking the enormous start-up costs and how much money a prospective owner has to have in a bank to be considered.

    If there was a franchise in which one of their children, Nicole or Joe should consider purchasing it would a Kumon center. The costs aren’t too high AND the owners have to learn and demonstrate their mastery of the entire program and they’re committed for five years. Yeah, I can’t see it happening simply due to the education requirements and having to stick it out for five years. Now, maybe one of the kids would be interested in doing something like this in the future. Kumon is NOT the best fit for every kid but it can be helpful for quite a number.

    http://www.franchisedirect.com/directory/kumon/ufoc/908/

    Highlights! Just in case the link doesn’t work.

    “Training and Assistance: The franchisor will provide the Instructor Development Program. The program consists of two semesters with four courses in the first semester and two courses in the second semester. The franchisor currently estimates that it will take approximately four to five months to complete the first semester. The franchisee must complete the first semester of the Program to Kumon’s satisfaction in order to be offered a franchise. If the franchisee successfully completes the first semester of the Program and is awarded a franchise, he or she must attend the second semester of the Program. The second semester requires travel to Kumon University in Teaneck, New Jersey following the opening of the Center. After completion of the Temporary License Period, the franchisee must complete Ongoing Training, which continues for the term of the franchise. Kumon has the right to require the franchisee to attend supplemental training courses during the Program if determined he or she needs them.”

    “Term of Agreement and Renewal: The length of the initial term is five years. If the franchisee is in good standing and has met the requirements for renewal, he or she can renew the franchise agreement for additional five-year terms.”

    “Estimated Total $64,073 (low) $134,100 (high)”

  18. I am so sick of her lies and her perception of reality. Her day will come….she can’t handle life on a day to day basis at the rate her facebook pages are up and then down. What does she mean, “those aren’t my children….these are my children”. I remember seeing that post on fb and I remember it well. The date of the post (not the year) was my younger brother’s birthday, but he is dead…has been for a few years. I don’t think he was taking his medication as he should have or he would still be here with us. I also take daily meds as well….I would’ve been dead years ago if I didn’t take them. Where is her degree in medicine that gives her the ability to determine who needs to be on medication? It’s her know it all attitude that is so disturbing….seeing that she knows next to nothing….in fact, she knows less than that. She can’t even write a post. Memes don’t quite cut it in my book. If you have an opinion, state it in your own words, even if it requires looking up both the meaning and spelling of words. She can’t even get organized enough to write that blog that was supposed to be updated. Yes, she went too far with that medication comment. I hope her kids never need to be on anything because you know they would never get it. She is unable to show sympathy or emapathy….I don’t think she has those genes. With her…it’s always about her first…her feelings, her thoughts.

  19. Okay, I looked at it a bit more closely and I wouldn’t want anyone to invest in a franchise that may be in the process of folding and provides uneven, slipshod advice to their newest franchisees.

    Don’t look into Kumon. That doesn’t mean memorization is a bad thing because it does free up the brain to learn concepts. Innate math ability may be more hardwired than not (intraparietal sulcus and numerical “gut sense”) but that doesn’t mean there’s no hope for improvement or learning the concepts too. There are other methods that deserve to be explored more fully in the US and put to work for the students’ benefit.

    The following may be of interest to one of the kids:

    https://www.dccc.edu/sites/default/files/faculty/sid_kolpas/mathteacherfingers.pdf

  20. The negligence of the kids devastates me more than it should.
    If any of the nauglers kids ever happen to see this, I believe in you and know that you can overcome all of the adversity and poor choices your parents have forced on you. I know you have more challenges than most but if you set your mind to it, you can escape and become so much more. I also concede that it’s probably hard for you to read the truth about your parents. I, too, struggle with the love of my parents versus accepting that they did not have my best interest at heart during my childhood. You might feel alone or isolated but I assure you that the majority of the people that follow the story, follow it out of concern and interest for you.
    I’ve read that the nauglers have Netflix, and on the outside chance your parents give you choices (like they claim),watch The Wolfpack. It’s a documentary about another large family with mentally ill, negligent parents that isolated and limited their kids options. They are slowly overcoming their childhood and forging toward reaching THEIR goals and dreams. Reach out to them.
    Anyway, great post and commentary, albeit a horrible tragedy. Thanks for continuing to expose no matter how heartbreaking it is.

  21. my sadness has always been that Nicole seems proud of the lack of learning available to her children. They lack the opportunities for more learning ( not necessarily even higher education, but learning per se) and the Naugler parents seem to be sadly happy that they are virally showing that their kids don’t need no learnin’. This is true abuse.

  22. This page makes me saddest of all. The realization that these children’s dreams will never happen. The children will have every obstacle against them when they are finally old enough to look around and really see what their parents have done to them. Uneducated, and socially crippled, their employ-ability will be low, their chances of getting out of the hole their mother birthed them into will require a lot of hard work.
    kids, we want to let you know how sorry we are that this is the life you have been given.

  23. Her arrogance is baffling. Who is she to put herself on the mother of all pedestal? She lives in a shed FFS! Her opinions on what a good parent is null and void. She craps in a bucket!

    At this point IMHO it is probably best that the children aren’t in public school. Kids are mean (adults too). Kids can be little jackasses. Once kids found out that the children lived in a shed, they would eat them alive. Torment. Unfortunately. I can only imagine what ridicule they would have been handed if they were in school and had told their peers they received mud for Christmas. Sad but true.

  24. You can purchase most of the Kumon workbooks online or in Barnes and Noble. I used them to prepare my preschooler for kindergarten. They are a fun way to learn basic skills. Looked into investing in a franchise with a retired teacher friend, I wasn’t impressed and passed on it.

    That being said, had she bothered to watch the Ted video we both posted, she would have learned the lecture was nothing like the click bait headline. She would have learned of the movement for “a learning community” online, Internet spaces for intellectual conversations centered around certain YouTube channels and other online sources of learning. So much has become available over the last few years as the information should be free movement has blossomed. We live in exciting times, where so much is available to so many just for the asking.

  25. Considering there is still oversight by CPS, I am hoping that there is mandated academic testing follow up. I read Nicole say she would not subject her kids to these tests again. Does anyone know the KY regs for follow up and the legal course taken for those who fail to meet appropriate grade level/ or lack of progress in the “unschooling” population?
    If they pull up stakes and run to another state, will the entire situation go away? TIA

  26. ” Does anyone know the KY regs for follow up and the legal course taken for those who fail to meet appropriate grade level/ or lack of progress in the “unschooling” population?”

    It doesn’t appear to be the case.

    http://education.ky.gov/federal/fed/Documents/KY_Home_School_InfoPak.pdf

    4. In the event that there is a concern about your child’s attendance, be open to inspection by directors of pupil personnel.
    a. KRS 159.040
    gives the director of pupil personnel the authority in their district to investigate any case of violating the compulsory attendance laws.
    b.KRS 159.040
    also states that the purpose for a director of pupil personnel visiting a
    home school is to ensure that the requirements of compulsory attendance are being met and not to determine the quality of the instruction.
    This inspection of school records may be conducted in a neutral site rather than in the home.

  27. My young grandson is in a children’s hospital as I write this.
    A week ago he came down with what appeared to be a childhood cold and sore throat. He didn’t complain. If he had run a fever or had trouble swallowing, his parents would have had him in the doctors office. The doctors have reassured his parents that what happened next was not their fault.

    He was infected by an unusual strep bug that caused his body to go into an auto immune attack. The tiny filtering surfaces in his kidneys became inflamed slowing any urine passing through them, various parts of his body became swollen and his blood pressure was horribly high.
    If it weren’t for medications and well trained doctors he could have died. But because of swift action and treatment, he will probably have no permanent injuries.

    Children used to die from strep often before the introduction of antibiotics.
    This is not a new kind of strep…It’s been around for some time. My grandson lives and plays outside in the woods of Kentucky.
    This could happen to any kid any where.

    A child also could live through this, with campfire care, and spend the rest of his life with horrible disabilities that common sense, preventative care, and modern medicine could prevent.

    My oldest son is deaf from being exposed to the measles when he was a baby in bassinet, because a mother visiting with her child had not had her child vaccinated. The mother then didn’t bother to tell me her child had come down with measles the next day. I didn’t know until my son came down with the measles, one night with 105 temp with seizures.
    All it takes is one of the children, or adults to be exposed to one of the pathogens that have always been out there, be it at the shop, in a store, or a fast food joint, and it could move swiftly through the children doing various states of physical and mental damage.

    Nicole’s postings are a mirror into her mind.
    If she doesn’t have the means to care for her precious children, without becoming a “government whore”, she develops selfish reasons on why she shouldn’t have to do it in the first place.
    Nicole has glommed onto the ” unschooling” technique, ( where did she get her training and guidance?) another selfish reason to avoid the daily schooling required of each child.Nichole doesn’t believe in testing the children for their academic acheivement.
    Nicole admires her son for just circling any answer on his state test. How could she find that amusing, or to even post it. Didn’t her heart ache just a little bit?
    Gone are the days when people had big families because it was expected that many would not make it into adult hood. People, even then,wanted the very best for those that did survive.
    Everyday the kids don’t get what they need, they fall behind.
    I don’t think Nicole cares about this, and will come up with another cockamamie reason not to do right by her kids…
    But, I’ll bet she tells them, everyday,how much she loves them.

  28. Here is a link address for Kentucky Homeschooling Requirements: http://education.ky.gov/federal/fed/Documents/Kentucky%20Homeschool%20Information%20Packet.pdf

    As it appears, fulfilling the requirements to the child’s best interest, the responsibility is to the parent or guardian. It doesn’t appear that enforcement is for the Kentucky Education Department. In other words, if the parent cheats or doesn’t uphold the educational guidelines, they are essentially cheating and neglecting the child. It’s not the responsibility of K.D.E. to monitor non-public education choices. Also, K.D.E. does not issue diplomas, nor recognize homeschooled diplomas. The option is a G.E.D. And for post secondary education, A.C.T. and S.A.T..

    It is a huge responsibility, imo, in choosing homeschooling. Responsibility and accountability towards your children. It would be a pivotal disservice and neglect, to game the system and the child of the most basic, necessary and beneficial education. It may be a handicap that will be most challenging and difficult to overcome, and probably the single best opportunity out of poverty.

    I personally know what my children are capable of, their keen learning abilities. And I knew my limitations, in even considering a role of parent educator. Even as college educated, no way prepared for teaching to today’s educational standards and opportunities. Just like this morning, my teens were discussing chemistry and physics before school. Way over my head! And I’m happy for them to get to have these learning opportunities, as part of their general studies. Primary and secondary education experiences are so much more encompassing now. I am content, as a parent, to be attentive to supporting what my children are capable of, and also minimizing limitations to the best of my ability. As I imagine, most parents are the same way.

    An interesting story, when my youngest child was in kindergarten. She was placed in a pilot program, 12 students in the class. Half were normal needs and the other were special needs. Then in the elementary grades, the special needs children were not segregated. Although they attended separate classroom time, a couple hours of the day. I was visiting school one day, during playground time. The normal needs children were so attentive to their other classmates, I saw a couple of them lift one that was in a wheelchair and place her in the special swing. On their own, without any directive. It was so heartwarming, for what I felt I was witnessing in a child’s world. A world without prejudice to those that are different, just kindness. I thought of that, when I saw the NN posting about medicated children in public schools. So sad, to choose to influence your children with disdain filled opinions, attitudes, stereotypes and behaviors on a daily basis.

  29. Tekla … thank you 🙂
    I am from the UK where they do all sorts of tests including videoing reactions to situations.
    My son has what they call over here “High level autism” which is the high IQ but no emotional understanding. He has worked so hard to get to where he is and although not medicated now – he really did need the meds to start with.
    It really annoys me that NN posts things like she does without thought. If she does have an autistic child then he needs additional help that she cannot even begin to give him without help.

    I was interested to read a reply from her to the question would you allow your children to go to school if they wanted to. She said No – not to a public school but she would let them go to a private school.
    Firstly, I thought that they made their own decisions on life? clearly not.
    Secondly, if it is like it is over here then you have to pay for a private school. So how would that work then when you don’t have the funds to live on a day to day basis. Effectively that is saying that you will never allow your children to go to school even if they want to. (Unless someone was prepared to pay for them of course ……. enough said!)

  30. You are so right. I have a grandchild that has Asperger’s Syndrome and without medication, life in our home would be unbearable, not to mention it would put others a risk. The child has a very high IQ, but lacks social and coping skills that children the same age has. The child have repetitive behavior if any attempts to alter or redirect leads to violent outbursts. How dare an uneducated, paranoid, low life scum bag, make the determination that medications are so bad. Yes we medicate the child and on a daily basis. We consult with specialists that have spent years getting extensive experience on the subject.

    She is sitting on her high horse in a garden shed without electricity, running water, toilet, or nourishing food to feed the kids she keeps bringing into the world, looking down ad judging parents that actually want the best for their children. IMO the only thing she is an expert in is begging for donations , depriving these children of basic necessities, and running her stupid mouth. Even her words aren’t her words. On more than one occasion she has been ousted for plagiarizing other thoughts and works. At one point, she even posted a poem her son supposedly had written, but low and behold, it was stolen words. She doesn’t see a problem with that though and that my friend is the problem

  31. The new page? Not the blogger. Not a commenter. Just watchers. We have been lurking forever. We watched And The Horse You Rode In On page say it was perfectly okay to share pictures of families. We read that Nicole was the administrator of that Horse page. She said ” sharing is caring “. She does it. You admire, enable and cheer it on. We are secret admirers of Nicole. We follow her lead. We have absorbed her essence and can now act just like her. Will you cheer us on too?

    Sharing IS caring. Pass it on.

  32. The new page? Not the blogger

    I love how Nicole posts a screen shot from the blog (something I wrote) and then carries on about the new page as though I had something to do with it.

    I do not. I haven’t even been on a computer since fairly early today, as I have a life and had stuff to do.

    Nicole, if you are going to post screen shots from my blog, would you mind identifying them as coming from here and preferably offer a link? And quit trying to link me with Facebook stuff.

    Everyone knows that you’ve been actively behind every single one of the “defender” pages. Oh, I know that you’ve used surrogates to admin them, or surrogates have voluntarily formed them and then told you that they did, but you’re involved in them. It’s obvious. You know everything that goes up on every one of them. You quote/link/share from them within minutes.

    Frankly, in order to create that page I linked to above, I had to search and ask around to even find the damn things. I don’t know half the pages you’ve created and used. And I have seen you and your surrogates steal photos from people, put them up on those pages, mock the people in them – and that includes their children. And you’ve done it to people who have done nothing more than make a single negative comment about you anywhere on the internet.

    And now you’re all butt hurt because somebody turned around and did it to you.

    Karma is a bitch.

  33. There is, of course, always the possibility that Nicole herself created that new page and “shared” shit from her own followers to garner sympathy.

    She wouldn’t be the first person in the history of the internet to do such a thing.

  34. [Admin: Comment removed because it involves discussion of Nicole’s business. That is a banned subject here except in very broad, non-controversial terms. I know it’s a temptation, but those are the rules.]

  35. Nicole is insinuating that the person who runs this blog, and those who post here are ” a group of mentally unstable people” who are now going after innocent folks on a new facebook site.
    Of course this is not true. I’ve not seen any mentally unstable behavior here. ( with the exception of a twisted post by NK)
    Nicole did this by using an obvious (background color)from this blog out of context to rile up her audience.

    What drew me to this log was the mature and fair way the blogger and posters here discussed the Naugler affair. Much of it out of concern for 11 innocent children.

    Who ever posted the new FB pages did, in my opinion, go over board by posting family pictures of some of Nicole supporters.
    I realize there were some very ugly pages made by so called “Naugler supporters”.
    These “supporters” made the Nauglers look MUCH worse rather than actually defend them.
    This new FB page showing the “supporters” family pictures waters down the message of the folks who want to see the children come out of this living situation healthy.
    It does no good… Only harm.

  36. She has been bringing up a lot of her old purported grievances for these last weeks, for little or no reason I can think of. The stepson, the water, “troll” attacks, dirty laundry (literally), and whatever.

    Her unrelenting attacks on this blog. Her cherry picking of small snippets out of context to bolster her stories. Her attempts to discredit it. Their attempts to out the blog writer, perhaps even more important now that one of her supporters outed her as the troll.

    Then today some mystery page appears at the same time she finally announces her big project. Coincidence? Or maybe the culmination of a well orchestrated plan? Who knows?

    The twists and turns in this sordid tale never cease to amaze me, yet at the same time I am not surprised at the depths of heinous actions the blessed troops will stoop to. Throwing her own supporters under the bus to fulfill her own agenda? Where have I seen that We before? Was it the Exposed one or one of the other pages? I cannot even guess at the intention, but I am sure it will be revealed somewhere up the road.

    Wow, just wow.

  37. MIM – would not surprise me that Nicole or one of her butt buddies made that page. They have done things like that in the past. I can see them doing that to drum up a pity party for Nicole and getting supporters riled up and back her all the more.

    Yes kids should be left out of it. But they started it when they posted pictures of non-supporters children and grand children with nasty comments.

    I have no clue who is doing that page but they are following Nicole’s rules she likes to play by = If you post a picture using the share button it is all fair. That is what the page did.

    If Nicole and Joe parented 1/10th of what most people do the kids would think they have the world by the tail. Those two are going to push and push until the lion raises it’s head and roars… when they cross the line they will lose them kids again. Mark my words no matter what she says they are being watched by those that matter not the “trolls”.

  38. [Admin – comment removed because it was about Nicole’s business. Guys, please stop doing this. Nicole is a dog groomer. We all know that. And that is as far as the comments can go on this blog.

    I’m sorry, but those are the rules.]

  39. It did occur to me that Joe could be using some of what he learned getting his AD in Psycology to keep things stirred up. And, of course this new mystery page could be his work…..or not.
    There sure is a lot of psychological warfare going on. What a fun thing to do if you’re just sitting around bored.

  40. What is interesting by its absence is that on one of the memes posted by Nicole recently is a young person in a factory making something. That is a job that is no longer available to most and more often than not, requires someone who has attended college.

    These are skilled jobs and employers are less interested in doing the bulk of training on the job – you have to apply with skills and that means more than what you may have done at home. Unless you’ve won some awards along the way.

    Where I work, we have a shop on site. The people who work there are amazing and guess what? They’re college-trained engineers. You just aren’t hired for a job that pulls down $80,000-$145,000/year without it. They could go work for other employers in the area for a lot more money, but the work offered here is more interesting and cutting-edge so they stick around. Thank goodness. We ♥ engineers – as a rule.

  41. Sorry I will try very hard not to do it again.

    No apology necessary. It’s all fine. That’s one reason I moderate comments.

  42. The latest FB ugly page creations are signature Naugler works. Postings start with begging for items followed by crazy postings of persecution. It’s their tithing reminders to the flock. Water bill and asundries need to be paid, and toss in a few skirts & aprons for ma while you’re at it. It must be working, they do this so often.
    Cross posting. Melissa your story is amazing! I’d pay money to read your autobiography. I read your horror story as a child, but seems you have a lot of other amazing stories! What amazing resources the N’s throw away. Speaks to their arrogance and ignorance which will be a major if not THE major obstacle the kids will first need to overcome. Thanks Al, DH liked the tips too.

  43. What FB Refugee wrote. No point in paying any attention to that page as it’s patently obvious it’s just there to reel in a new crop of donors.

    I see that they still can’t believe anyone would have a Facebook page and keep it private for years on end. Believe it, Naugler’s. Not everyone wants to splash their lives for the world at large to see and not many of us NEED to display our lives in order to drum up cash because we’re incapable of earning enough on our own skills and merits.

    I love the not-so-subtle hint that Nicole wants an apron. Make your own. All you need is an old bath towel and some wide ribbon. You can even fold and sew it in a manner to provide you with pockets. Surely you have a large enough towel available to you at home or perhaps at the shop.

  44. I’m an unschool advocate. I unschooled my kids through elementary, and had a very positive experience with it. The thing about unschooling though….the word does not mean “non-schooling”. Most unschoolers work hard to teach their kids to read, write and do math on a daily basis. They just use an unconventional approach guided by day to day life.

    Figuring the square footage of a new carpet turns into a math lesson. Comparing prices per ounce on groceries. Conversions in the kitchen. Math still happens daily. Reading with kids, both listening and reading to them, is the backbone of unschooling. As is encouraging writing on a daily basis. You don’t really need a curriculum to do effective ELEMENTARY school education if you’re someone who pays attention, and has the creativity and time to make sure your kids are getting lots of exposure to the three core goals of elementary ed: reading, writing and math.

    But at some point, typically around Sixth grade….unschoolers come to grips with the reality that in order to pursue advanced academic aspirations, kids need to learn to tolerate traditional learning models and function inside of them. If they don’t make this transition, they are severely limiting their kid’s choices in life.

    My kids unschooled elementary. We loved it. They transitioned seamlessly to traditional education in middle school because their core skills were strong, they took community college classes to fulfill highschool graduation requirements, and were well prepared for college. My daughter was accepted to a very competitive university and graduated with a STEM degree. Bright, confident young woman. My son did an apprenticeship for a building trade and recently passed the test for his contractor’s license. We are very proud.

    Unschooling, when done with attention to core competencies, can be a wonderful way to run an elementary education. However, if you don’t facilitate a transition to more traditional learning in the middle school years…it can be crippling. Socially, developmentally, emotionally, financially.

    What these people are doing with their kids gives responsible unschooling a bad name. There doesn’t seem to be any support for the older children to find a trade or study for basic competency exams to get into even community colleges. Not even vocational education seems to be offered to the teens. I cannot imagine how isolating and bleak their lives must be. How does a teen with that background find a job, go on a date, gain independence? It must feel hopeless.

    Unschooled LITTLE kids…do great. And Nicole leans on illustrating the wonderful freedom of an unscheduled childhood with less pressure. But she fails to register any accountability for her older children’s futures. How lost their eyes become when they outgrow the art projects and farm animal photos. It’s as though she’s trying to keep them from growing up…by crippling them. Eventually, those kids are going to be so angry. When that happens….good luck to her.

  45. I’m an unschool advocate

    And you have just articulated quite well my personal position on the subject.

    It’s a little like dieting. Any diet will work as long as you are tenacious and pay attention to detail and stick to it. Likewise, any educational program will work with parental/teacher involvement and a keen eye for what learning style suits the individual child best coupled with lots of personal attention.

    I suspect you are the type of parent who would have switched horses in mid-stream had you realized that it wasn’t working out quite like you’d wished, or that another approach might give a better result, or that your child was unhappy and not achieving up to his/her potential.

    When Nicole makes statements numerous times about how the children “decide” this, and the children “decide” that, all implying that they are treated like little adults, and then turns around and says that they will never be permitted to attend a public school even if they “chose” to do so, well, you get the picture.

  46. Sadly enough, every project, EVERY project the Nauglers begin, ends up either dropped, fouled up, or kicked aside for another ‘wonderful’ project. ( Do her supporters see or even realize this?)

    We have a saying in my family: remember the 6 Ps. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Maybe Nicole could make one of ‘her’ memes using this quote. Oh, sorry, she just copies memes, she doesn’t come up with any. My mistake.

  47. I think that public education in this country is in serious need of reform. But in no possible universe except Bizarro World would that reform ever look like the Blessed Little Hobo Jungle.

    I am posting this next link, not for the Naugler parents, but for their children. We all know that the Naugler parents can’t summon up the follow-through for anything that involves more than talking. But, look, kids: here’s a relatively low-bandwidth, thorough, free homeschool curriculum, mostly online, that extends from pre-K through high school:

    http://allinonehomeschool.com/

    Everything has been scheduled for you. You only have to ask your parents for some pencils and stuff. Big ones, help the little ones–just for a few minutes each day.

    When you’ve completed the entire course, here are directions for GED prep in Kentucky:

    http://kyae.ky.gov/students/ged.htm

    If you have been denied your legal right to identity, here’s a search string to remember:

    apply delayed birth certificate [name of your birth state here]

    You can start establishing your identity as a separate person as soon as you turn 18.

    You can claim that power.

  48. Thank you, Shelly for your post. Congratulations on your kids doing so well and achieving their goals. You are rightly very proud of them (and deserve a pat on the back yourself – go Team Parent!).

    It’s disquieting to me when people compare the Naugler family to the Meitiv family. I’m acquainted with the Meitiv’s and they are very dissimilar from Joe and Nicole. Two well-educated, thoughtful employed adults, never been thrown out of a synagogue due to not meeting their obligations to their family or community, with kids who are simply being taught how to do the very things I did in that same area when I grew up there and when it was a LOT less safe. Completely different situations. I wish people wouldn’t conflate them. If the Meitiv’s were to teach their children at home, I suspect they could probably get them through high school if they really had to do so. Dr. Meitiv is a physicist so we know that higher-order mathematics would be covered thoroughly. That isn’t what they have chosen to do with their kids academically at this time.

    I find it sad to think the only opportunities for the older kids to meet their peers is (initially) online rather face-to-face, or being introduced (set up) by mutual friends. Hey, Joe and Nicole met at high school, why aren’t their kids afforded such opportunities to be around at least a group of people their own ages again? At one point two or three of the boys were in the scouts, the middle kids could certainly join 4H or scouts again, the elder kids could be going to community college for classes but there’s no thought of that evinced. For crying out loud, do they even have a bicycle or two so kids could possibly pick up a few things from the general store without it taking quite so long (and maybe meeting someone their own age too)?

  49. Very interesting and informative, Shelly. I enjoyed the insightful read! I would advocate Unschooling, from your perspective.

    Shelly said, “Unschooled LITTLE kids…do great. And Nicole leans on illustrating the wonderful freedom of an unscheduled childhood with less pressure. But she fails to register any accountability for her older children’s futures. How lost their eyes become when they outgrow the art projects and farm animal photos. It’s as though she’s trying to keep them from growing up…by crippling them. Eventually, those kids are going to be so angry. When that happens….good luck to her.”

    Yesterday, I was into reading some articles from Amish children, who after the age of 18, left their homes and the Amish order. I was led in interest, to a Facebook page on Amish Truths. An example of one such woman who walked away, http://www.bbc.com/news/world-30551861. What is resounding in reading these articles, is the oppression within their existence, as children. Some said that most stayed within the Amish order, more out of fear of the unknown outside.

    I likened to what Shelly said, “It’s as though she’s trying to keep them from growing up…by crippling them. Eventually, those kids are going to be so angry. When that happens….good luck to her.” Oppression and control. I cannot help but believe, as her children age to young adults, some will bolt, in spite of fear of the unknown outside. Oppression is quite suffocating. I especially heartache for her teens, in the lack of social relationships with other teens. Such a crucial asset in the emotional development aspect of young adults, peer relationships. Many of the friend relationships fostered in my youth, are active to this day.

  50. Several people have suggested that in a rural area, it’s an asset for teens to able to drive and have access to a vehicle. Kentucky has a few requirements for students and their families before they can get a driver’s license.

    “The No Pass/No Drive law (KRS 159.051) was passed during the 2007 legislative session, and affects every public and private school in Kentucky (including home school students). The law says that schools will use academic and attendance data from the previous semester of the school year to determine whether 16 and 17-year-old students are compliant with the law….

    …​To apply for the first time for a driver’s learning permit, students must get a paper form (KRS 159.051 School Compliance Verification Form, dated 1-1-12) issued by their school. It will not be completed and issued by the school if the student is not eligible according to the terms of the law….

    http://education.ky.gov/school/pages/no-pass-no-drive.aspx

  51. For myself and others interested in homeschooling, this information and tons more can be found online.

    http://a2zhomeschooling.com/regional/us/kentucky/kentucky_homeschooling/

    In Kentucky, home schools are considered to be non-public schools. The laws relating to non-public schools also apply to home schools.

    Parents of children who are home schooled are required to do the following:

    1. Notify the superintendent of the local school board in writing within 10 days of the beginning of the school year of their intent to homeschool their child(ren) each year they homeschool; the letter must include the name, ages and residence of each child in attendance of the homeschool.

    KRS 159.160 Establish a bonafide school for the children to attend. When informing the district superintendent of your desire to homeschool, create a ‘school’ name. This will be used for future records and diplomas.

    2. Record and maintain scholarship reports of each student’s progress in all subjects taught at the same intervals as the local public schools.

    KRS 159.040 It is suggested that the person responsible for instruction keep a portfolio that contains samples of the best work done by each child in several areas of study and maintain the portfolio year after year.  This may be of assistance in documenting the existence of the home school or the transfer of the child to another educational setting.  A record of courses taken and grades received is also necessary.

     3. Keep accurate attendance records of pupil attendance; the attendance records can be kept either in a notebook, on a computer or in another manner but must be readily available in case of an inquiry. KRS 159.040 The minimum number of school days 185 days or equivalent to 177 six-hour days.

    4. In the event that there is a concern about your child’s attendance, be open to inspection by directors of pupil personnel.

    KRS 159.040 gives the director of pupil personnel the authority in their district to investigate any case of violating the compulsory attendance laws.

    KRS 159.040 also states that the purpose for a director of pupil personnel visiting a home school is to ensure that the requirements of compulsory attendance are being met and not to determine the quality of the instruction.  This inspection of school records may be conducted in a neutral site rather than in the home.

    Teach those subjects that will educate children to be intelligent citizens. It is required that all instruction be offered in the English language. Subject similar to those taught in public school should be offered. Although it is the parents right to offer other subjects as well. Subjects taught should include reading, writing, spelling, grammar, history, mathematics, and civics.

    Recognition of credits

    When students who previously attended a homeschool or non- accredited secondary school, (any private school not certified pursuant to KRS 156.160(3),) desire to enroll in a public school, the local public school district is responsible for proper placement and awarding credits for the non- accredited private school.

    If the student does not hold a properly certified transcript, the schools may place the students using one of two methods:

    Pass a similar examination given to other students receiving credit for the course.
    Attaining a “C” average in the course by the 12th week of school.
    Those courses successfully completed by examination or performance shall be counted toward minimum high school graduation requirements in the local school district. KRS 158.140

    Home schools are not accredited by the State. Unless a home schooling family functions as a satellite classroom for an accredited school, the diploma awarded by a home school may not be recognized by other schools or agencies. Some home schooled children take the General Equivalency Diploma (GED) exam for the purpose of obtaining a standard credential. Other college-bound home school graduates take the SAT or ACT tests and usually have little problem with college admission.

  52. When our son decided that he wanted to go to “real” school (for the 12th grade), I tried to get an appointment with our local high school principal and failed totally. The man simply wouldn’t see me. They really didn’t want to deal with Nate.

    The pianist at our church was also the choral director at another high school and she put in a word with her principal (she wanted Nathan in her chorus) and he agreed to meet with me. He and I worked out a deal where Nathan had to take the end of year exam for every class he’d ever had in high school. Can you imagine having to go back and take your end of year biology test two years later?

    Anyway, Nate’s lowest score was a C, so he did very well.

    And I had complete records for him.

    As it turned out, he mostly wanted to go to school because it was new and he wanted to be in the school play, which he did. Once that was over and the new wore off, he didn’t want to go to school anymore. We told him that we’d never wanted him to go in the first place and he could quit if he wanted, but only if he found a job first.

    He had a job the following day. This was in about February of his senior year.

    When he turned 18, he went out to a friend’s house in St. Louis to be “discovered” (!!!) and while he was there, he went to the local community college and got his GED. He called and told me about it, and I told him to have the college mail his transcript/grade/whatever to me, and I would reimburse him the $35 it cost him to take the test. He did, they did, and I did. 🙂

    I’m glad Kentucky has at least some provisions in place so that they can decide to monitor these kids.

  53. Recently, there was a lot of discussion about providing educational and/or therapeutic services to school age students who are diagnosed with special needs. Under federal law (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) those students have a right to a free and appropriate education.

    Selected sentences concerning educational neglect from: http://a2zhomeschooling.com/main_articles/educational_neglect_legal_issues/

    In a Home Education Magazine Article, “Taking Charge,” educational neglect is defined as parents failing to ensure that their children are provided an education consistent with standards adopted by the state.

    Permitted Chronic Truancy – Habitual truancy averaging at least 5 days a month was classifiable under this form of maltreatment if the parent/guardian had been informed of the problem and had not attempted to intervene.

    Failure to Enroll/Other Truancy – Failure to register or enroll a child of mandatory school age, causing the school-aged child to remain at home for nonlegitimate reasons (e.g., to work, to care for siblings, etc.) an average of at least 3 days a month.

    Inattention to Special Education Need – Refusal to allow or failure to obtain recommended remedial educational services, or neglect in obtaining or following through with treatment for a child’s diagnosed learning disorder or other special education need without reasonable cause.

  54. The Naugler children groom pets, help in the shop or take care of siblings at ages younger than the Kentucky labor law allows for. There has been some discussion if this is legal. Yes. It seems to be legal. (I don’t know how to highlight or bold text in this format so have separated the pertinent part of the definition of gainful employment.)

    http://labor.ky.gov/dows/doesam/Pages/Kentucky-Child-Labor-Law.aspx

    339.210 Definition of “gainful occupation.”
    As used in KRS 339.220 to 339.450:
    (1) “Gainful occupation” does not include employment in farm work or in domestic service in a private home, nor occasional employment by a householder in connection with the household and not in connection with the householder’s business or occupation, such as grass cutting or carrying ashes or similar casual domestic tasks, nor the delivery of newspapers on regularly scheduled routes, nor to employment as an actor or performer in motion pictures or theatrical productions, or in radio or television productions,

    nor to employment of minors by their own parents or persons standing in the place of a parent

    in occupations other than manufacturing, mining, or those found by the commissioner of the Department of Workplace Standards to be particularly hazardous.

  55. Nicole says that she is not interested in having her autistic child run through the tests needed to classify his levels. Therefore if he is not officially diagnosed is she then able to dodge accusations of educational neglect for a special needs child? From reading Bill’s posts, it seems children are not protected from underage working if their parents enslave them. What am I missing here?

  56. “Nicole says that she is not interested in having her autistic child run through the tests needed to classify his levels.”

    Of course she isn’t. She would have to pay out of pocket for the testing and it’s neither instantaneous nor is it inexpensive.

    “Therefore if he is not officially diagnosed is she then able to dodge accusations of educational neglect for a special needs child?”

    Bingo!

    Of course, it means that when she states he’s autistic she’s self-diagnosing and likely to be incorrect. I doubt that will stop her from still proclaiming he’s autistic if it increases the donations. She has to capitalize on the children while it’s still possible to do so.

  57. I’m inclined to regard the autism “diagnosis” as another item on the Nauglers’ Don’t Gotta list.

    Voluntaryists = don’t gotta pay no taxes (or prove no competency or act like no citizen of no cooperative society). Militia = don’t gotta do no military discipline (or weapons practice or PT). Homesteaders = don’t gotta clean nothin’. Free-range farmers = don’t gotta keep track of nothin’. Unschoolers = don’t gotta help the kids with nothin’. Free-range parents = or look after them. Naturopaths = or take them to no doctors neither. Autodidact = SO THERE. Autism = don’t gotta consider whether this particular kid lives in his own head because he’s trying not to notice that his life is literally crap.

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