No It Isn’t


As someone who has attended two home births, reluctantly, and vowed to never do that again no matter how much pressure I felt, and who advocates for safe birth, I’m well aware of the statistics for childbirth in the United States.

And I know that statistically Nicole Naugler is at grave risk by having an unattended (Joe and the kids do not count) birth at home.  In her case, it’s not just the home birth thing, it’s also the fact that she is a 41-year-old grand multip (many babies and a really worn out uterus – it does not get more successful over time).

She writes this stuff like it’s true.  It’s simply not so.

Start here.

Yes, this is the New York Times. And yes, this is an article by Dr. Amy Tuteur. And yes, home-birthers loathe her. Me?  I adore her.

She cites statistics and studies. Unlike Nicole, who “knows” the stats, Dr. Amy takes us to the stats.

America has a problem.

And Dr. Amy goes to the root of it.  This article is probably the most positive, supportive article about home birth that I’ve ever seen from her. She goes into detail as to why we have a problem in the US and what can be done about it.

Here’s some more.  This isn’t Dr. Amy.

And if you really, really love science, there’s this.

What infuriates me about what Nicole is doing here isn’t that she is putting her life at risk.  I give not one shit about what she does. I do not care.  If she bleeds to death on the floor of that garden shed, I will shrug.

But people read her shit.

And they think, “Oh, she’s had 11 babies. This is her 12th birth.  She’s done this over and over again. She knows what she’s talking about.”

And then they are more likely to attempt it themselves.  But because these poor saps feel a bit intimidated because they haven’t had eleventy-billion babies at home with only Joe and the kids, they’ll hire a midwife.

You know, to be safe.

And they’ll hire a “certified professional midwife,” which is woo-speak for “don’t know shit about what I’m doing.”

And that’s the problem. Nicole isn’t just putting her own life at risk. She’s attempting to influence other women to do the same thing.


Here’s a fairly typical comment from Nicole’s BLH Facebook page (where she linked to the blog). Debbie is not the youngest person in the world, and I doubt she is going to have any babies any time soon. She doesn’t mention her own children (which might mean she doesn’t have any).

She talks instead about her mother, and how her mother did it and it was fine.

And it will work “just like it has for all the women in the past before hospitals.”

You know, all the women who fucking died. They died. Or they lived and buried their dead infant.  Or they both died. Debbie is clueless, and Nicole is clueless and I’m sorry, but I sort of lose my shit about it.

Remember something about this.  We’re not just talking about Nicole suffering a fatal hemorrhage, something that very likely won’t happen, or the baby dying, something that probably won’t happen either.

We’re also talking about morbidity.  Morbidity is medical-speak for shit that happens but you didn’t die.  Neonatal morbidity is stuff like cerebral palsy.  Sometimes it’s just the tear instead of an episiotomy and the resultant fairly miserable recovery period.  Sometimes it involves birth injuries that are hard to quantify later on.  (Is this kid just slow or was he oxygen-starved?  With a Naugler kid, how would you know?  They aren’t seen by physicians ever.)

There are a whole lot of other people in this world, and some of them read that shitty blog of Nicole “Just Let Me Enjoy My Pregnancy” Naugler.  What she is doing is reckless, foolish, and immoral.

And I’m talking about the writing, not the birthing.

I know I have written about this before.  Here. Here. And here.

And if she keeps doing this, I will keep writing about it.



Nicole, who never reads this blog and doesn’t pay any attention, reads this blog regularly but she’s right, she doesn’t pay attention.

If she did, she’d know that I never once have claimed to know with first-hand experience what it’s like to be pregnant, with the single exception of my own pregnancy.  And Nicole has absolutely no idea at all what that was like for me. Nor does she know what it’s like to be pregnant for anyone else except herself.

But that isn’t what I talked about here at all, as she would know if she paid any attention.

What I talked about is that she said something that is entirely and demonstrably false.

I also know that statistically I am safer at home then [sic] I am in a hospital.

She makes this statement as though it’s common knowledge and totally true, when it is in fact totally false.

And then I presented Dr. Amy’s article because that article contains links to all the relevant statistics.  You know, the whole “statistically” thing that Nicole blithely flops out there.  Notice that Nicole offers no such statistics?  That’s because they do not exist.

I then went on to cite a couple more articles that also cite statistics that show her to be completely wrong.

I know she thinks it’s cute to talk about her nine-year-old daughter like that, but all she’s telling me is that she has subjected a small child to repeated experiences witnessing unassisted childbirth.  She thinks this is brilliant.

Far from being “psycho,” I am a realist.  I know what I am good at.  I know what I have expertise in.  And I don’t pretend to be an expert when I’m not.

And it seems that what I wrote was thought to be correct enough that Dr. Amy shared it on her Facebook page.

I don’t know about anyone else, but when a Harvard-trained obstetrician thinks I wrote something that was good enough and accurate enough to share on her Facebook page, I’ll take that any day over what Nicole “I live in a garden shed” Naugler thinks.


And just in case you, like me, can’t get enough of Dr. Amy, here you go.


66 thoughts on “No It Isn’t”

  1. I just think what she is doing is stupid. If she will need to go the hospital if some thing happens, Breckenridge county hospital isn’t equipped for it. Louisville trama center is over an hour away, and Norton children’s hospital is further. Hardin memorial is about 45 minutes. She and her followers are stupid.
    if something were to happen and her and baby had to be air lifted, who is going to fork the money over for that $45,000 Bill. Luckily when my husband was air lifted cause he was ran off the road on his bike, we have medical insurance. Tricare covered it all except for $20.


  2. Reading her latest blog entry it occurs to me that she almost wants to die in child birth. Kind of an odd martyr suicide that will ensure her everlasting fame with her bat shit crazy followers.


  3. I know someone who’s working on becoming a midwife. She will NEVER be able to work in a birthing center or hospital. She’s a convicted felon with drug charges and wanton endangerment 3 times she’s had her children removed from her care, by that “horrible” CPS. She can only deliver for the local Mennonites, basically. No way in hell I’d want someone like her or a Naugler assisting me or a loved one.

    NN is playing birthing roulette. Bragging about her perfect pregnancies and births. Pride goeth before the fall. Scares me that the children could witness a tragedy the more births she has.


  4. If you’re going to homebirth (horrible idea) especially unattended (asking for problems) at least get a check up or some prenatal care. She pretends she’s somehow an expert on delivery because her uterus has been occupied for damn near half her life. What she won’t admit is the kid could have heart problems, a small head, abnormally large torso the list goes on and on. Things you can’t “feel” things that would require medical intervention asap and sometimes need for intervention before the due date. Not that she even gives a remote shit about that because yanno, they come when they want. Or they don’t, they die because they have been in too long and the placenta dies or they ingest meconium. She should be charged if something happens during birth (we know she’d sue, probably anti hospital because most won’t allow filming of medical procedures). Or if one of her dense ass followers heed her “expert” advice and jeopardize their kids


  5. I think home birth has it’s place, and many women have successful and enjoyable ones. That being said, one should always do what is in the best interest of the mum and the baby…and that doesn’t mean an unsupervised birth. Sure, there are women who give birth in the fields and do a full days work, but that isn’t the norm,and things can go south so quickly. Why not have a midwife…and if we are talking a high risk prgnancy, then a hospital is the best choice. Every birth is different, and you can’t always go by your past experiences. At 41, with an aging uterus, I would hesitate to advocate an unsupervised birth. Isn’t being cautious better than having to pay a bigger price if something does go wrong? If everything is kosher, that’s fine, but you won’t know that until the process is over with. I vote for safety, first….bi


  6. That postbirth uterine massage for a grand is incredible, I think labor and delivery of the baby was easier/less painful. It also works extremely well and is extremely necessary. I hated every moment of those regular massages (and honestly bled more after the delivery of my first three kids after delivery) but I had zero doubt they were necessary. I wouldn’t do it myself or have my husband do it either. A blogger I follow was planning a home birth with midwife for her 13th child (I think it was her 9th delivery though). Suddenly she had a prolapsed cord during labor (not delivery, labor) once her water broke. Her husband had to reach up inside her and hold the cord up until the EMTs arrived (and I think up until right before her crash c-section under general). Another person I know had a sudden placental abruption during the hospital delivery of her 10th child. She had a crash section without any pain management whatsoever because the anesthesia tech wasn’t able to come quickly enough. Both situations resulted in a healthy mom and baby, but only because of their quick access to care. Neither situation was a result of the women doing anything “wrong” or because they were in poor health, or had a previously undetected condition (both had prenatal care).


  7. Sally, I love what you do and say. Thank you for trying to bring light into this topic.


  8. I feel obligated to point out, since I have lived in the area, that the county hospital (most local hospital) does not deliver babies anymore (they haven’t for years). Being a nurse I know that the local ER can stabilize and transfer via ambulance or helicopter. But again all this takes time, something a hemorrhaging women with an oxygen starved baby does not have. The closest hospital that does have an OB would be Leitchfield 27 miles from Garfield, KY. Hardin Memorial is 34 miles away. And Kosair children’s hospital is 54 miles away. Literally, a lifetime away in an emergent situation.


  9. I think she’s being too cavalier about the risks, here. They live out in the middle of nowhere, right? How long would it take to get to a hospital if something DID happen? She seems really confident that she will both A. Know if something is wrong and B. Can treat that issue at home. There are many complications that can take place at birth that cannot be managed by a layperson. But, he’ll, if they don’t go to the hospital for gasoline burns or giant head lacerations, why would they go if their baby is in distress? Nicole does not know if her pregnancy is healthy because she never sees a doctor. She wouldn’t know if she has some kind of underlying condition that could affect the birth. For example only: I have a thyroid condition. Uncontrolled, it can affect my ability to carry a pregnancy to term. If I had never been to a doctor in the first place, I would not know I had this condition. If she truly cares about her brood, She would not set them up for unnecessary risk. As a mother, I do what I can to ensure my child is healthy, happy, and yes, I try to remove unnecessary dangers from his life. Isn’t that what parents do? It’s like she’s hoarding children, but doesn’t care too much what happens after they are weaned.

    [Admin: nope]


  10. I am the one she quotes and I stand by my words. She is at great risk and looks horribly unhealthy. Her hands are quite swollen and this pic shows very swollen feet. She has mentioned severe headaches. To me I would guess pre-eclampsia. Again that is just a guess. She also looks huge for the number of weeks. Gestational diabetes? She’ll never know though because she won’t get pre-natal care. The moment she realizes there is a problem, it will be too late. And if she dies giving birth, what will happen to the kids? They will be left in an unimaginable situation, fending for themselves.


  11. For me, it’s just frightening and infuriating to think, if something did happen to her, all them kids will have to stand there and watch their mother die. And probably their baby sibling too. What sane person would put her kids through that?


  12. I live in WA state where the law requires that CNM are treated on par with OBGYNs for insurance purposes. My HMO actually encouraged birth center delivery (this is a home like environment attached to or near a hospital). They even cover home birth with a nurse midwife (tricare does as well actually). The hitch is that most cnm won’t do home birth, so they are exceptionally picky about their clintele. I had one for my first (was planning a birth center delivery) but was transferred at the last moment because of my blood pressure rising (turns out I had icp) so I was induced. A properly attended (by an excellent caregiver, with excellent pre and postnatal care) homebirth is quite safe, the biggest issue is that a really good nurse midwife generally doesn’t want to do them, and a lot of bad ones do them instead. The hospital I last delivered at actually sent a nurse to me to check our daughter and I a couple days after delivery. At least here in the PNW they are moving toward the more midwife life care, and it isn’t an entirely bad thing.

    On the other hand, my most dangerous delivery was under the care of a cnm that refused to listen to me. I was induced with a removable prostaglandin called cervadil. I had a great contraction pattern, but she refused to remove it. I ended up with uterine hyperstimulation, which led to a partial placental abruption, and had to deliver before I was fully dilated because my son’s heartbeat tanked. In fact I was the one that called her in to check because I noticed his heartbeat was tanking and not recovering. My chart said I react very strongly to prostaglandin (another delivery was from 1.5cm to delivery in 3 hours after 30 min of cervadil). She just refused to listen to me when I said the contractions were “wrong” (which I would know after four previous deliveries without any pain management whatsoever).


  13. I love Patton Oswalt’s bit about this (look it up on Youtube). Once his friends found out his wife (RIP, though not from childbirth) was pregnant, they said that she should do natural childbirth. He responded, well, why give birth naturally inside where it’s all comfy? Why not go whole-hog and give birth in a homemade lean-to in the backyard? You know what women in the 1800s wanted? Clean hospitals and medicines to take away the childbirth pains!

    The Nauglers are this way only because they’re dirt-poor. They don’t want government handouts (only public ones, like GoFundMe) but I wonder if even if they had insurance, if they would take their kids or go to the hospital for the births? More eyes to see abuse, if it’s occurring, which is why I would say no.


  14. The BO picks and chooses whatever fits her agenda.
    When something happens, they will still find a way to put the blame on someone else


  15. Peg….i don’t remember how far along NN said she was. When I was pregnant with my daughter I was measuring a week or two ahead. So I was big when I was pregnant with her.

    When I was pregnant with my son I was tested for pre-eclampsia. I had called labor and delivery cause I was bleeding after my first internal exam. They ended up putting me in the high risk section of labor and delivery for observation over night because of my blood pressure. My test results came back negative, and told me I needed to stop working and rest until I had my son.
    I read the one article about where the couple lost their baby. No amnioc fluid is scary. With my son I didn’t have a lot of amnioc fluid. They did an ultrasound to determine how much I needed and replaced the fluids. When my water broke it felt like I peed myself and that was it.
    She is just risking way to much with an unassisted home birth.


  16. You can have the best of both worlds. My oldest son was born in a hospital and i was attended by a midwife. I labored most of the time at home. He was born 15 mins after my arrival at the hospital. I walked, i talked, no one forced meds on me, but i knew that safely tucked into the walls of the birthing center room was all of the equipment that would save our lives if things went south like they did when i had my daughter two years prior.

    The cavalier attitude that Nicole has while flat out LYING to uninformed people who think she is some sort of trailblazer is appaling and infuriating. I have been steaming about it all day long.

    The people who frequent her salon care more for their damn dogs than she does for her children. There is no justification for endangering her children in this manner. To what? Prove a point that she can? Yes Nicole, you can do these things. Apparently you can live in a shed. You can deprive your children of the chance to become more than you if they choose. You can even can choose to risk depriving them of a mother if you bleed out in a kiddie pool in your freaking “cabin”, but the real question you dont ever seem to address is why you would WANT to do these things.


  17. Sally, not really a comment on this blog entry. On another unbelievably depressing day in the United States ( seriously, how is any of this OK? ) , I thank you for the diversion. Can you and your brilliant commenters PLEASE take on the assholes (sorry for the language) in Washington? Jeez, Nicole and Joe almost seem sane by comparison.


  18. TSOWOATNK I’m curious where you live that a nurse came to check on you? We adopted our first dog at an animal shelter. 2 weeks later, they came to check on the puppy. I remember telling them that I had 3 babies and noone ever came to check on them ( i had them in a hospital, but still… )


  19. I just wanted to add that maybe, just like everything else, Nicole is not stating the real reason she prefers home birthing. It appears to me that maybe the real reasons she doesn’t go to a hospital or have any prenatal care is because she wants as little contact with mandated reporters as possible. She wants them to have as little information about her real (Not carefully constructed internet facade) situation as possible. I also wonder if they have health insurance. I mean who could pay cash for all those births. Defiantly not the Nauglers. Maybe they are missing the perfect Go Fund Me opportunity.


  20. Home births seem risky to me under the best of circumstances.
    The Homelesstead is very far from the best of circumstances.
    If things go south, could Joe be held responsible?


  21. I loved my hospital births. All five of them. I loved having someone watch the baby so I could shower alone, I loved being able to get a decent nights sleep, I loved the rest. Five hospital births, no unnecessary intervention, a nice quiet and relaxing environment. Four of my births were where I live now and one was in California, it was the same at both hospitals, just great, safe places.

    As far as prenatal care, does she check the heart rate? Listen for heartbeat ireggulaties? Does she check her blood pressure? Can Joe or one of the kids measure her to see if her growth is on target? These are the things that happen in prenatal visits. You can’t just feel that everything is fine, some issues are basically silent. Prenatal visits aren’t intrusive, they are pretty relaxed and honestly mine never took long. I tend to over cook my kids so once I got to the end I always had to go in for a few hours of non-stress testing. It meant laying in bed watching tv with some monitors on me, the nurses even brought me food, oh the horror.

    Hospitals really are great. And you have the added bonus of an actual trained professional there in case your YouTube degree turns out to be worthless in an unforeseen medical emergency.


  22. I also wonder if they have health insurance. I mean who could pay cash for all those births.

    They do not and they could not.


  23. Just head on over to tractor supply and buy a cattle trough to have the blessed one in, Joey gather up some sticks for firewood, gotta heat up that water. What a fool she is


  24. I am really, really hoping that Nicole has gotten some sort of prenatal care that we don’t know about. I am concerned as hell about the idea of birthing baby #13 unattended, in a dirty pre-fab garden shed with no source of clean running water and no quick access to a hospital, but I am firmly pro-choice, and so I wish her well with her birth plan no matter how guanopsychotic I think it is.

    Another concern, and this is wild speculation, is the possibility that, should they need an ambulance, it’s entirely possible that, because of Joe/Nicole’s history with first responders, that EMT’s might not be allowed to respond to the homestead until the PD has secured the scene, which would cost precious seconds/minutes in an emergency, and the Nauglers might not even allow the PD to ensure that the environment is safe for the FD. I could see that spiraling out of control extremely quickly, but, again, wild speculation.

    I sincerely hope this birth is uneventful.


  25. Amen, Dinah! When I had my youngest Ohio had changed its laws to mandate that mothers be allowed to stay in the hospital for 2 day instead of booting them after 24 hours. When they asked if I wanted to stay another day I said you bet your ass I do. I had piles of laundry to wash, meals to cook, and 3 other kids squabbling at home. One last night of uninterrupted sleep sounded pretty darn good to me!


  26. I am really, really hoping that Nicole has gotten some sort of prenatal care that we don’t know about. I am concerned as hell about the idea of birthing baby #13 unattended,

    Almost certainly she has not. It’s number 12.


  27. The one thing many of her supporters seem to echo is the whole bullshit about “if it was good enough for our ancestors, its good enough for us” mentality. I read a comment on one of her latest regurgitations about the “kidnapping” incident two years ago that “CPS would have removed Laura Ingles Wilder from her home” or something to that ilk. These people baffle the hell out of me. I know for a FACT my ancestors worked damn hard to make sure that life wasn’t so hard for their kids in the future, and their kids did the same. They may have been born in a shack with no running water but by god, their kids wouldn’t be. Every generation improved and empowered themselves through education and work. Because living in a shack in the middle of the woods when you have no other resources sucks. They claim it’s out of principal but it’s out of circumstance. I just am alarmed that there are people out there who are still buying into her nonsense after all this time. Wonders of the universe!


  28. @fatbassets

    I live in WA state, and I delivered at Swedish. I had an OBGYN, and delivered a persistent OP baby with zero need assistance (gotta those stretchy joints with eds hypermobility). So I didn’t have the check a few days later because of a difficult delivery. It wasn’t exactly a pleasant delivery, but it wasn’t that difficult either.


  29. Nicole and her supporters seem to believe that she would “sense” if something was wrong in this pregnancy, and that just isn’t always true. A pregnant woman cannot sense if the cord is around the baby’s neck, or if she has high blood pressure or pre-eclampsia. She also cannot sense gestational diabetes (GB) which, if left untreated, can lead to a very large baby, and the birth itself can lead to injuries of the baby’s arms and shoulder. Untreated GB may also result in the baby having a drop in blood sugar after birth requiring treatment, and a higher risk of jaundice or breathing problems. As she has had large babies before, Nicole has a higher risk of GB, if she hasn’t had it with previous births already.

    There are a multitude of things that can and do go wrong during both pregnancy and delivery, as well as the aftermath, none of which can just be “sensed” by the mother. Thinking that way is ludicrous and idiotic.

    It would not surprise me though if Nicole just pops this one out as she did with the rest, with everything OK, purely due to the luck they seem to have. How nothing serious has happened yet on that godawful homestead is beyond me.

    I also would not be surprised however, if she was actually having some pre natal care due to CPS’s involvement with their case, and if she is, leading people to believe she isn’t, is just criminal, because a lot of her followers aren’t exactly blessed when it comes to critical thinking skills.


  30. Okay. I get country bragging rights tonight, before my comment.
    I’m in Canada. I had ob/gyn care for free, with everything that entails. I had an “incompetent cervix” (Love that. Stupid cervix!) and had a suture put in to keep my cervix from opening and losing my baby. For free. I delivered in hospital and had my drugs (free) and because my son was full of meconium and came out grunting, they had another doctor, pediatrician, (free) attending. They believed his heart rate couldn’t stabilize after a few hours and transferred us (free ambulance) to the NICU. Free. I also had a bed and meals in the new hospital (free) for a week until he stabilized and we got the all clear. Then, two weeks later, I had a nurse come to my home and check how we were doing. Also, any access I required to a lactation consultant. This also included wel-baby checks and well-mamma checks with ob/gyn. All free. Are you all jealous yet? No? One full year of unemployment benefits per mother! Boo-yah! Canadian law.
    Okay. Now that you all want to live in my beautiful country, I will say I agree that she’s very huge and is more than likely heading into a world of hurt. But I honestly don’t think she gives a shit.


  31. I say more power to Nicole. Home births all the way. Five more! Keep em coming, Joe!

    There are very few circumstances I can imagine that would result in the state finally taking permanent custody of the existing kids….but a dead medically fragile baby… is one of them. Particularly if the poor little soul lingers for a bit while they “foliage” out in the woods for a cure.

    If Joe and Nicole’s willful ignorance actually results in the death of a child….the kids will finally be taken away permanently.

    So that’s the silver lining to the inevitable. Sad, but it’s what Joe and Nicole want…and they know *bes*t for their family.

    Keep bumping uglies Naugs, but for God’s sake put a sheet up so the kids don’t have to watch. Play something that drowns out Joe’s grunts, too. Imagine being in a 350 square foot room having sex with your 10 kids all around you and above you…with no privacy screen, nada. Teen-agers having to listen to that. Who the fuck does that?

    But yeah….poop out a few more, Nic….until you hit that special kid who changes everything.

    Tick. Tick. Matter of time.


  32. Thank you so much for this! A woman on Nicole’s post said something to the effect of “doctors bread illness and big pharma is out to get you. God won’t let anything happen to you and women have always birthed unassisted safely!” In a now-deleted comment I gave some stats on mortality before doctors and their ‘bread’, and big pharma poisoning us all. Nicole deleted both comments, unsurprisingly. I honestly hope nothing happens to Nicole or the baby. But I was told by real medical professionals that even after having just several children the risk of postpartum hemorrhage goes up because the uterus can’t clamp down as well… And here she is birthing in a shed with number 12. She does not seem to comprehend a woman can bleed out in 5 minutes from a bad PPH. How long does she think it will take EMS to get to her?


  33. As wallflower mentioned, Nicole will blame others…. ‘trolls’ …if something happens with this baby. Remember, she worked up her supporters about Sheriff Pate, who she said pushed her against the car when she became aggressive with him. If anything had gone wrong with baby G, she would have the Sheriff all ready to blame.
    She never takes responsibility for anything, so why should she if the next birth goes wrong? In my opinion, I see trouble no matter what happens.
    [Admin: let’s don’t go there – what you said was fine but it will open the gate]


  34. So many things can go wrong during birth, but with good pre-natal can be planned for and managed in a safe environment. Things like known birth defects, placental problems, blood pressure issues etc. the list is nearly endless. Then of course there are all the other unknown factors as well.

    My partner was a surgical nurse. He helped perform a planned Caesarian on a woman who had placenta accreta whereby her placenta attached deep into the muscles of her uterus. It was found during a routine ultrasound. Typically there are no symptoms during pregnancy that the mother can see/feel. It presents as a normal pregnancy.

    The surgical team was well prepared, knew what they were doing. Unfortunately, even with the best of care, the woman still died on the table. She and her family were aware of the risks, but that doesn’t make it easier for anyone.

    I cannot understand people who enjoy playing Russian roulette with their unborn baby.


  35. She can brag about having 11 healthy kids as much as she likes, but all she has done is lucked out.
    She has no idea how healthy that baby is. Just because “It feels like every other pregnancy” means shit. My 6th felt just the same as my other 5, yet that baby was born with a serious medical condition that will be with him for the rest of his life, and I was a heathy women in my mid twenties.
    I would also trust a Nurse/midwife who has attended many births, over my “feelings” because my feelings have no medical training.


  36. “Can you and your brilliant commenters PLEASE take on the assholes (sorry for the language) in Washington?”

    Mordor on the Potomac.

    I really wish to hell people would stop electing assholes, then sending them where I have to deal with them, and then they feel free to stomp all over DC home rule. Fuck you all, hard, dry and with a cactus. You can’t get away with this shit in your own states.

    You know what the motto is on the DC plates? “Taxation without representation”. A-fucking-men. DC has a representative with no VOTING rights.

    Why the bloody fucking hell did TOM PRICE have a Secret Service detail for that trip to Charleston, WV? He doesn’t merit a Secret Service detail if you look it up. He’s not a foreign dignitary and if they think he’s going to face hostility in WV such that he needs them, then the administration may want to re-think it’s strategy of putting people in charge of agencies when their sole goal is to dismantle them.

    Where the hell are Trump’s tax returns? Now that he’s fired Comey, I’m even more interested in knowing what he’s hiding. Plus his vapid daughter who plagiarizes others words and shoe designs. Oh, mustn’t forget Kushner’s sister peddling investor citizenship to the Chinese and her association with Kushner (and Trump).

    Former president Obama was NOT perfect. ACA is NOT perfect (but it’s based on a plan that Romney put into place), but I’ve read the goddamn bill that the House passed and it is horrible. Find anything about protecting those with pre-existing conditions. I couldn’t. Maybe I hadn’t ingested enough coffee though.


  37. Oh, and I wanted to point out that prior to passage of ACA, not only were there medical conditions that could raise your rates (or get you turned down flat), there were also PROFESSIONS that were deniable.

    Mining, for example.


  38. Hey…where did my earlier post go?

    Well, I have to leave now so I’ll sum it up for Fat Bassetts.

    Mordor on the Potomac.

    I wish people would stop electing assholes and sending them to DC. Considering how much they state they hate the place, they damn well don’t want to quit the job and go home permanently after they’ve been elected. No, they keep running for the job and infesting the place.

    Come and enjoy our museums and the NZP while the admission is still free, folks. Particularly on Mondays – not as many people and you don’t feel so rushed. Please donate something though to keep them up and running. This administration is even less fond of history than it is of science in general.


  39. A couple more things. First Nicole could easily get Medicaid. She is certainly under the poverty level since it’s extremely low for pregnant women and children. I know that would make her a whore to the state but her numerous court dates already show she has no problem using the state to do her bidding. I do think the whole wanting as little contact with mandated reporters is the number one reason she refuses any government help.

    And I also wanted to add I had a nurse come to my home after all of my births, in both states. They come out and do a check on the mother and the baby. With my 4th they sent her back to the hospital for the day because her jaundice had gotten worse, she was fine though. I know Nicole finds stuff like this horribly intrusive but I found it quite the opposite. I have nothing to hide and just wanted the best for my kids.


  40. Every pregnancy is different, and even with the best prenatal care, things can go south so very quickly. I don’t understand how anyone would want the chance bringing a newborn into the world in a filthy place like that. Since they seem to be so addicted to having babies, what happens when her uterus finally gives out? Is JoJo going to abandon her and the kids for greener pastures and a new baby factory? [Admin: we’re not going there. I understand your concerns, but I am the legally vulnerable person here. Please use some common sense and think about what you might be exposing me to.]


  41. I also would not be surprised however, if she was actually having some pre natal care due to CPS’s involvement with their case

    She cannot be forced to get medical care. She and Joe can be forced to allow their children to have medical care, but a fetus is not a citizen.


  42. She does not seem to comprehend a woman can bleed out in 5 minutes from a bad PPH.

    She has never seen anyone bleed out. I have. I close my eyes, fifty years later, and I can still see the blood.


  43. Plus she doesn’t know her blood type. Now, even if you know your blood type and scream it from the rafters, they’re going to test you to make certain of it (for a lot of good reasons – not least of which is medical identity theft) but it’s not a bad idea to know it in advance.

    I don’t want anything to go wrong, but it can and it can happen in the blink of an eye.


  44. Nicole’s whole life is just a game of “double-dog-dare-ya.” She “double-dog-dared” CPS to take her kids. She “double-dog-dared” the sheriff to arrest her. And she dares fate every time she gets pregnant and refuses to seek out prenatal care. I recently suffered a miscarriage. I am several years younger than Nicole, and have had only 3 other pregnancies. It’s not uncommon, as I have learned.
    For as much as that woman claims that she has expertly delivered 11 babies with no issues, I would bet anything that she has also endured some losses – statistically, it is quite likely that she’s had a few. But she would never discuss those publicly because it doesn’t work into the blessed little fantasy that she puts out there.


  45. The woman may think she is on a higher level of smarts then the rest of us and that may be true in reading soe of her supporters comments. But lets face it, if she has no problem with this baby she will crow, see I told you I can do this and may do it again just as a FU to the trolls, but unles everyone forgets,, we need some cash to take care of this little blessed child of god. But if something happens and she corks off, we can all scream what about the kids, but the truth is, she made this decision, along with her screwball husband. What is it she likes to remind everyone, oh ya, we had a family meeting and I can see that going down, Kids, your father and I have decided that in the best interest of hte family, were going to eschew medical care in the hopes that I can have this kid naturally. BUT if anythig happens to me,, just put on my headstone, FU trolls,, this is your fault, ,,,,,, Crazy ass woman


  46. I absolutely loathed going to a doctor. I was always healthy and so were my first 2 children. Prenatal felt pointless because everything was always perfect. We were lucky to even have Tylenol in our home much less any other type of medicine. I was not one to take my kids to a doctor over every little bump or cough. This is how it was for 14 years until my 3rd pregnancy. I developed pre-eclampsia which I wouldn’t have known without having my urine monitored for weeks until it become too severe that I had to deliver them early. They were huge and healthy until at 2.5 one was diagnosed with leukemia. Fast forward 2.5 more years were celebrating his no more chemo and I’ve been diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder along with several other issues including vitamin defencies. I still loathe going to a doctor and having to take medicines but those doctors and those medicines saved not only me but my babies. I went to those stupid pointless appts not because I felt I needed to. I went for the love of my kids. So my children would still have a mother, so I would be here for my kids and grandkids, and for the health of my unborn.
    She is a high risk pregnancy with her age and number of pregnancies. Everything could go smoothly and there not be any issues, but why would you not do everything you possibly could for the love of your children. I don’t go for me. I go for them!


  47. Some one had asked how long it would take for an ambulance to get to their place. I know they don’t live too far from me. The ambulance would end up coming from Hardinsburg. It would take probably 20 minutes to get to their place. But I don’t know which route the ambulance would take.


  48. IMHO, I believe our family got in over their heads years and kids ago. When they were living a relatively normal life with the help of the church and they still had fewer kids they were only hanging on by the skin of their teeth and the help of others. Neither one of them will conform or be beholden to anything so that rankled their psyches and thus the break from civilization. When people do things for you they expect something in return, if only good behavior.

    They are broker than broke. I think they do home births because they don’t have a penny to pay for medical care and they know it. So, in order to deflect from their financial inability, they have created this facade of the “we are tough, we can do it ourselves without the man, because we are noble and better than the rest of you”. I mean, jeez, they won’t even take food stamps for the kids. They are certainly not going to accept medical care. They have completely deluded themselves to justify the position they are in. They truly believe their own shit and are pissed that we don’t.

    If they went to the hospital to deliver they think/know they will be judged not only for the condition the other kids are living in, but also the lack of birth control in their situation. And, damn it, they are sovereign people and they can reproduce!

    The saddest thing I think I am seeing now is the mental downslide she is taking. She has the weight of the world on her. If she wanted to be a good mother how much is left of her to share? And I do think she wants to be good. When she talks to the littles in vids she has a sweetness about her, IMO. He is such an asshole, just yapping in her ear his non-stop bullshit, how could she be anything other than at least-depressed and at worst-insane. He is toxic! The hair, hygiene, eyes show depression. This obsession with attacking the world is her outlet, I believe. It is really so sad. BUT, in her insanity, or maybe just her personality, she is a mean, evil bitch. I can’t believe the level she stoops to to hurt others.

    I’m so conflicted…LOL


  49. The fact that she is willing to risk her life and the life of her unborn child, to give birth in that dirty garden shed is appalling. I’ve been pregnant exactly once. I was considered at a higher risk due to my age at the time I conceived, which was 35. Had my child at age 36. My pregnancy was smooth sailing the whole way – not even a day of morning sickness. My skin glowed, my hair was shiny and bouncy, I walked every day, I did my best to eat right, and I got regular pre-natal care. Even my child birth was smooth (if you can ever call child birth smooth!), but turns out I was a bleeder. I needed blood after giving birth to my son, and the hospital staff took good care of me. If I had been having a home birth, attended only by people with no medical experience, knowledge or training — I could easily have died from blood loss.

    But I’ve long realized that Nicole is a fool and that her priorities are screwed up. They can’t afford the children they already have, and they can’t afford the one that is due in July. They can’t even afford to replace their sad garden shed with anything larger or better. If that van breaks down, they probably can’t afford to repair it. She won’t be able to work for at least a few weeks after she has the baby, thus that income stream will stop entirely. Joe doesn’t care – he always looks out for #1 first and foremost and clearly he’s never missed a meal. Nicole doesn’t care because she comes second. The kids are the ones who always come last, and have to fend for themselves as best as they can.

    I think Joe and Nicole surround themselves with children as a buffer against the rest of the world. We all saw how they ran like scared rabbits straight to a motel when the kids were taken – I think they are afraid to be alone on that property. They certainly would have had to make their own meals, dump their own white buckets, and take care of their animals all by themselves and they freaked out and ran away instead. They have no real life friends, they are estranged from their families — the only people that stay with them are their underage children who have no choice in the matter. And that’s the truth Nicole and Joe – you two are pathetic losers who can’t make or keep friends, drive away relatives, and eventually you will indeed end up alone and wandering homeless, probably pestering your grown children to support your worthless asses. I hope if any of your kids are suckered into taking you in — they put you two in a crappy garden shed way out in the back of their property and make you work to earn your keep.


  50. What I fear, and I absolutely do not want anything harmful to happen to anyone’s child, is that if something goes wrong with the birth of number 12, Nicole will at least go on an internet rampage blaming stress from the ‘trolls’ for anything negative happening. She would probably try to enforce that blame through the courts. All the while reasonable people who are her critics wonder why she and Joe would have another child when they refuse to care for the 11 they have already had. All the while reasonable people are saying “get prenatal care and have the baby in a hospital!” All those reasonable people that she banned, doxxed, and harassed via the internet and her husband are people trying to talk some sense to the old girl for her baby’s welfare and even her own welfare. I hope dearly nothing bad happens but she seems determined to increase the probability of something bad happening. Nobody is going to tell her what to do!


  51. I worked as a Neonatal Intensive Care nurse at a large hospital which at the time took in sick babies from a number of states.
    I cannot tell you how many sick babies we received from small county hospitals who were not equipped for emergencies.
    We had many babies admitted from a commune called The Farm.
    The people on the farm had home births. They had their self taught birthing nurses.
    When I think of the number of babies that came from these situations and the life long physical and mental problems they incurred due to a lack of proper care, it makes me want to cry.
    Considering her age, home birthing, and adding no medical care close by if needed, you are talking a pretty high chance of brain damage and even death for the baby.
    Mom being at a much higher risk goes without saying.
    Nicole loves this attention. She loves keeping the interest in her churning by saying leave me alone.
    She is willing to sacrifice everything for the fame.
    That is so sad for her children.


  52. One of the more enjoyable things I did as a nurse was ” Well Baby” visits.
    I called all the companies that made products for babies ( for instance Johnston and Johnston) and told them I was making such visits when new babies went home.
    I was inundated with boxes and boxes of products to take to them. It required several trips from my car to cart it all in.
    I checked both mother and baby over for any health issues, but was also required to look over their environment and recommend, or even help correct any potential problems.
    Co-sleeping was a no no. I had access to free used cribs and bassinets.
    I also helped with any breast feeding issues that had arisen, or preparing formula.
    I observed the pets in the house and helped determine any problems there… of course never leaving the baby unattended (with in arms length) around even the friendliest pet, or another small child. Lots of love, but using common sense.
    I had a long list of resources I had built up and took pleasure in helping the most well off and the poorest of the poor. ( I always planned on being lost trying to find their homes)
    I was always treated with great respect and was able to turn my visit into a fun occasion.
    Although some were dirt poor and not particularly intelligent, never once did I run into a situation so squalid as the Nauglers.
    I’m guessing because they tried to keep themselves under the radar as well.
    And, yes, I was a mandated reporter. Only once did I report a bad situation where I was greeted with four men sitting on the porch cleaning military (not hunting) rifles and a wife who behaved nervous and frightened my whole visit. There clearly had been no preparation for the baby. I left no paperwork.identifying me as it scared me shitless. ( I didn’t let them know how scared I was… I just broke down on my way back to the office)

    Would the Nauglers have scared me, probably not, but if the conditions were as Nicole has posted herself, I would have been mandated to report them.
    I’m only going on her post, and what has been showed by the news reports, not on anything anyone else has posted.

    Nicole is her worst enemy.


  53. We had many babies admitted from a commune called The Farm.

    Ina May Gaskin. She wrote the book that I used when I assisted with those two home births so many years ago. In both cases, the women involved were going to do it with or without me, and I felt sort of like an Oreo cookie, damned if I did and damned if I didn’t.

    The first one was okay. The baby was huge and she tore and we ended taking her to the ER to get sewn up, but otherwise it was uneventful.

    The second one was breech. I knew it was breech, and I finally screamed at the father at the top of my lungs that if he didn’t get his wife in the car right that second, I was going to call the police. In the ER, they had to deliver vaginally and breech because she was so far along and the attending came out afterwards and commenced yelling at the father, taking up where I had left off.

    That was the end of my amateur midwifery career. I decided that no matter what they threatened, I wasn’t helping them kill themselves or their kids, ever again.


  54. I don’t think how close they are to a hospital or how fast an ambulance could get there really matters. Joe wouldn’t call for help, no matter how bad things got. He is a prophet, you know?


  55. There was a blogger years ago who was training to be a midwife and blogged her pregnancy. Everything was fine with no red flags when her daughter was born blue and unresponsive. They had an ambulance at the house in 3.5 minutes administering oxygen and were at the hospital in 7 or 8 minutes. The infant died, I dont think the autopsy ever concluded why.
    My son was born with miconium in the fluid and the cord around his neck. He was purple and wheezy. He was rushed off to the NICU where he was treated with high levels of oxygen until his lungs cleared. His daughter was born with the cord wrapped around her neck, blue and sluggish.
    I would have loved to have home births. It just seems so much more comfortable and “right” until
    the baby is blue and you become a statistic.


  56. I was concerned about her health with the last delivery, and I’m even more concerned this time. You can’t tell if there is a problem with the mama or baby by Nicole “looking healthy”. That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. And anyone with a set of eyeballs can tell that she doesn’t look healthy.

    I follow a woman on FB named “the skeptical OB”. She’s pretty over the top about some things imo, but I like reading her opinion, just to keep myself informed. She’s picked up on Nicole’s blog post, and reposted it. This should be super interesting.


  57. A cord around the neck isn’t actually a very big danger if the cord is long enough. Two of our sons had nuchal cords *and* true knots in their cords (one son had a single knot and nuchal cord wrap, the other had two nuchal wraps and two knots). Even a true knot isn’t necessarily dangerous as long as the cord is long enough for a safe delivery. There is this cool stuff called Wharton’s jelly that protects the cord from becoming like a kinked hose under normal circumstances. The baby doesn’t need to use their nose/mouth to breath until after delivery. Even though I knew all that intellectually, it was a relief to have trained professionals delivering.


  58. The real reason they don’t take state aid, besides mandated reporter, is because they have to be accountable and be working to improve their situation.
    That means Joe would have to get a job.
    Aid generally does not come in a form that can be easily converted into pot and Hardee’s. Nicole being self employed means they wouldn’t be eligible for TANF (minimal and difficult to qualify for cash assistance) the best they could hope for is WIC vouchers, EBT card for food, and Medicaid.

    That is unacceptable to the BO. They want cash. No questions, no strings cash.

    If they can’t have it their way, even if it improves their situation incredibly, they don’t want it.


  59. Congratulations, Sally!

    Now let’s see if we can’t get DocBastard to mention you in his blog.


  60. I hope that young girl will have some assistance. First births are extremely risky. I hope she’s getting prenatal care too.


  61. I had four pregnancies that, sadly, resulted in only two live births. Pregnancy one ended in a miscarriage around the fourth month. When it happened, I was devasted and a little afraid that I would be like my cousin who could get pregnant but could never carry a baby to term. My next two pregnancies were fine and I delivered a healthy baby girl and a year and two months later a healthy baby boy. I had an unplanned pregnancy a few years later, while I was still at my reproductive prime and that pregnancy was just as normal as my other two and I felt great and the baby moved up until I went into labor. Back in those days, we didn’t get ultrasounds or other diagnostic tests other than to be checked for sexually transmitted disease,RH status, and diabetes. Even the night that I went into labor, I felt healthy and all of my symptoms were indicative of a normal birth. We left for the hospital when my contractions became fierce and close together. My OB doctor met us at the hospital. The nurse had all my vital signs recorded and I think the doctor was going to put an electrode inside to monitor the heart beat. They had an external thing and I was laughing and talking and Very quickly I felt very dizzy and said to the nurse that I had had a head rush and she took my blood pressure and she sent another nurse to get the doctor and she elevated the foot of my bed and I remember saying I think I must have peed or my water broke and she looked and they sent my husband out of the room and I was very groggy and wondered if they had given me medicine and I felt my heart beating in my ears and I began to panic. I don’t remember when the doctor came nor anything else about the death and birth of my third child, a boy. He weighed seven pounds and two ounces and he was 20 inches long. He had long eyelashes and was incredibly perfect. My older Children had blond, curly hair but this baby had dark, straight hair. I think he had dimples but it was hard to tell.

    The doctor said that the placenta was positioned up too high and every contraction was causing it to tear away and while I was internally bleeding, the baby was being deprived of oxygen. The separation was so abrupt and tore with such force that there were no symptoms that would have let us know, and even if I had been in surgery they could not have saved my little boy. I am sure they were telling me all of this so I would not blame myself or the doctor. Over the years,I have thought a lot about his death and why I couldn’t have known something was wrong. I wondered when I knew he was dead. I swear I don’t remember how I found out. I remember I woke up on a surgical floor and immediately grabbed for my belly and felt and knew.

    I share this with you all as one of those testaments to how sudden something can go wrong and how clueless we are to when it does go wrong. Let me add that had I not been in the hospital where they got me to surgery in seconds, I would have bled todeath and left my two children motherless and at the mercy of their ignorant father, who would have surely fucked their lives up much worse than I did.

    I was one of those young women who had two live births that were natural as far as no medications and the doctor said I was a natural until I wasn’t. Nicole is older and in bad shape and I hope she has a healthy baby and all is well, but she is playing Russian roulette s with her baby and her own life.


  62. I hope that young girl will have some assistance. First births are extremely risky. I hope she’s getting prenatal care too.

    I’m gathering from your comments that you don’t know much about the GF. She and Jacob have left the property and are living elsewhere. To my knowledge they aren’t participating in any way with Nicole and Joe’s nonsense.

    Therefore they are not fodder for discussion.


  63. Nope missed that one. Last I saw on the blog, they moved into the second shed.

    Interesting that Jacob has separated himself alledgedly.


  64. It was said that she had issues with her last birth. Baby had issues breathing after birth. Like it took them awhile to get him to breathe. It was re ported too, that her oldest son delivered him. Her sons gfriend is pregnant and they are both due around sametime.


  65. It was said that she had issues with her last birth.

    I’m not sure that I ever saw that nor any indication that Jacob did the delivery.


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