Let’s Get Together

One Love! One Heart!
Let’s get together and feel all right.
Hear the children cryin’ (One Love!);
Hear the children cryin’ (One Heart!),
Sayin’: give thanks and praise to the Lord and I will feel all right;
Sayin’: let’s get together and feel all right. Wo wo-wo wo-wo!

Bob Marley, One Love

On a national level, the debate continues to rage over health care.

Seventeen years ago. . . WAIT.  It was seven years ago (our current president is a moron, I can’t help that).  Seven years ago, faced with a very horrible health insurance system in this country, Congress passed the Affordable Care Act, popularly known as Obamacare.

It was modeled after the Republican plan put in place in Massachusetts by Mitt Romney.

It’s not socialized medicine.  It’s not evil.  It has done a lot of good, and Kentucky is an example of that.

Considered a model for the nation, Kentucky embraced the ACA at the outset, expanded Medicaid and set up its own gateway, called KYnect.  Lots of people in Kentucky did not have health insurance, because Medicaid in its original form didn’t cover every poor person, but mostly children and pregnant women.

One of the immediate results of the implementation of expanded Medicaid in Kentucky was the early diagnosis of a whole pile of folks with diabetes who didn’t know they had it. That meant they got treatment early. Many of them never missed a day’s work. They continued paying taxes just like always, and are being treated for a chronic but manageable condition, instead of presenting to a health care facility at a later stage with permanent organ damage as a result and thus being unable to work for long periods.  Kentucky saw a huge savings as a result.

This was great.

There are also many downsides to the ACA, and it has been criticized roundly by Republicans (oddly, since it’s basically a Republican program). Some of that criticism is well-founded.

The problem, of course, is finding the solution to the problem.

My personal feeling is that the solution is to do what every other first-world nation on earth has done and institute some form of single payer health care. Everyone has it but us.

But that’s a bigger debate than what I want to talk about, which is the basic principle behind health insurance.

Nicole Naugler doesn’t seem to have the slightest idea how health insurance works.  Considering that she’s probably never had it, ever, in her entire adult life, that’s sort of understandable, I suppose, but still, she’s a grown woman who runs a business and is sort of raising 10 children at the moment, so she probably ought to figure this shit out.

Forgive me if I resort to some elementary ideas here, but really, I’m dealing with people who don’t get it.

And you do realize that people with insurance don’t pay their bills. The people who pay insurance do.

That is what she said.  She went on to clarify that a little bit with the numbers, but she just doesn’t get it.

Insurance works just like Bob Marley sang. Let’s get together and feel all right.

Because we cannot foresee the future, and because I have no idea if my house might burn down tomorrow, and I don’t know if I will be diagnosed, like John McCain, with a glioblastoma and suddenly face a zillion dollars in medical bills, and I cannot possibly foresee what would happen if I was driving and had an accident that was my fault and faced a bazillion dollar settlement, I carry insurance. We are not over-insured, but we carry insurance.

Back before Obamacare entered the picture, we were in a bit of a pickle.  We had both retired. Dave, who is older than I am, qualified for Medicare. I did not. That meant that I had to buy health insurance in the private market. And oh, dear me, what a nightmare that was.

It was very expensive, so much so that I really didn’t have health insurance at all.  As President Obama put it so well speaking about the sort of very high-deductible policy I had, I had asset insurance.  Because of that enormous deductible ($10K), I was basically self-insured for anything except a catastrophe. The joy of my life is that I never had a claim during those years.

I also almost never went to the doctor. I didn’t have a PAP smear. I didn’t have a mammogram. I didn’t have a colonoscopy. Nothing.  It was all just too expensive and the best I could do was insure against some horrible thing happening that would force us to sell our house.

On the day that the ACA went live, I was on my computer on the KYnect website applying for insurance.  I got it that day (I was lucky and KYnect worked very well in spite of massive numbers trying to enroll).  My premium dropped by about half and more importantly, I had real health insurance.  I got a physical, the first I’d had in years.

I only had that insurance a short time because I turned 65 and was able to get Medicare, which is far better.

But here’s the deal. We all get together and we feel all right.

We all get together.

That’s what makes insurance work.

We all get together.

Not just sick people. Not just those with diabetes or heart disease or glioblastomas.  All of us.

When we all get together, and everyone pays in, everyone then can rest easy because those ghastly unforeseen events, the ones we cannot help and cannot prevent and cannot see coming, won’t devastate us financially.

What Nicole conveniently ignores is that part about all of us getting together.

See what I mean? She doesn’t get it.

In 1986, Saint Ronald Reagan signed a bill into law that mandated that any hospital emergency room in a facility that got federal funding (and that’s all of them because they accept Medicare payments) had to take any patient who waltzed through the door regardless of their ability to pay.

I remember when this happened. I cannot remember all the details but there was a woman (I think it was a woman) who was taken via ambulance to the nearest hospital and they denied her treatment because she was indigent.  So the ambulance took her to another hospital and if I remember correctly, the same thing happened, and finally she reached a hospital that would take her, but it was too late and she died. This was horrible.  Americans didn’t like it, with good reason.

I mean, think of it this way.  In 1985, had Nicole Naugler been brought to the hospital by Joe like she was the other day, they could have just said, “Gee, I hate it, but you’ll have to go to Louisville to some other hospital because we don’t treat indigent patients.”  Just think about that.  It was perfectly legal and done more frequently than anyone liked to think about, so Congress acted and Saint Ronnie signed on the dotted line.

Congress mandated that all people have to be treated, at least for emergencies. Mandated treatment. The ER doctor cannot say, “Gee, I like being paid. I’m not doing this.”

All the ACA did was say this: If all people must be treated, then all people need to get together and we’ll feel all right.  All people need to contribute.

That is one of the cornerstones of getting insurance premiums down to something reasonable.  We all get together. We don’t just get together with other people who are sick, or other people who are older than dirt like me and probably facing illness sooner rather than later.  We all get together.

We all pay in when we’re healthy and don’t have any physical problems, and then when one of us has a car wreck and breaks a leg, or develops a glioblastoma, or is nine months pregnant and has a dead baby and develops DIC, we get treated and since we all got together, nobody is bankrupted by it.

It’s not difficult, she says.  Just do it yourself, she says. Watch Youtube videos.  It’s easy.

Is it still easy, Nicole?  Is it easy to recognize and treat DIC, Nicole?

The following few screen shots left me with whiplash.  Here Nicole tells us that they did not apply for Medicaid and “chose voluntary aid over coerced.”  What she means is that they are choosing to beg online instead of applying for the financial help we all have donated toward.  She wants us to donate again, on top of that, because she’s special and wants to feel superior to everyone who donates. They are all “rats in a cage” while she has true freedom.

But apparently nobody told Joe about how they didn’t apply for Medicaid. He clearly says here that they have insurance. They do not have insurance unless they got Medicaid this past weekend.  Nicole confirms that in the same thread at the bottom.

Up till last Friday we have covered every bit of our medical expenses ourselves.

That means no insurance. That is what that means.

And again, Joe asserts that they have insurance.

They do not.

Up to this point we have been 100% responsible for ALL our medical needs. . .

Ergo, no insurance.

I especially like his characterization of $10,000 as “measly.”

And yes, Joe, what it took to save Nicole’s worthless life was something that normal people are, in fact, prepared for. They have insurance. They work – you know, a job – and they pay for it.

And as I and the Nefarious Please have shown quite clearly, Joe, all you have are “trying times.”  Hence, all you do is beg. Again and again and again.

But you know, Nicole and Joe illustrate so beautifully the reason why we need single payer health care in this country.  They thought they could wing it. They thought they were invincible, that nothing really bad would ever happen to them. They thought they were smarter, healthier, luckier than the rest of us stupid statist jerks, and that they’d just skate on by.

They thought they would never need any help with medical expenses until they actually had medical expenses and then Nicole insisted that her principles were too damned lofty to accept aid, and she would just beg online instead, because it worked out so well last time.

But see, that’s the trouble with voluntary shit.  It’s voluntary.  You ain’t gotta if you don’t wanna.  We can all sing, “Let’s get together and feel all right,” but they will just opt out and we’ll all pitch in and help them out when and if they get in a bind (which has been almost continuously for the last several years), only this time it is not happening.

They are not collecting thousands and thousands of dollars. Not even a “measly” $10,000.


See how she doesn’t get?

And one day it may be necessary.  We could manage a small incident, but something like cancer would bankrupt anyone.

We all get together does not mean “wait until you have a problem and then it may be necessary to have insurance.”

What if everyone did that?  I am a very healthy 68-year-old woman. My doctor says I am his most boring patient.  So far, we have almost nothing to talk about regarding my health, so we discuss all sorts of other things, like treadmills and cruises and driving the Blue Ridge Parkway. I have Medicare.  I pay a monthly premium for it.  If I added up that monthly premium for all the time I’ve had Medicare, it is far more than I have spent going to the doctor, even factoring in a colonoscopy and a couple of mammograms (I am so old I don’t need any more PAP smears, thank you very much).  So basically, right now, I am a Medicare donor.  I pay in more than I get.

That may be the way it is for the rest of my life. Some very lucky people manage to live in good health right up until the day they go to sleep and never wake up.  I hope I’m one of them.  But I’m covered and I cannot be placed in a situation where Dave is left with a zillion dollars in medical bills that he cannot pay if that’s not the case.

And because we all get together, we feel all right.  Not only are my neighbors and friends and relatives and fellow citizens, if they have insurance, covered so that health care costs can’t devastate them, but I rest easy about it.  I don’t worry about “how in the hell am I gonna pay for this” if Dave has some bloody urine and needs to go see why (bladder stone, blasted and gone) or if his doctor says, “You need to have these cataracts removed” (done both eyes, marvelous).

Looking back over my 68 years, I believe I could have self-insured the entire time, including Nathan’s birth, and never had any insurance at all.  I bet if I added up all those bills, and then added up all the premiums I’ve paid, the premiums would total more than the benefits.

And I don’t regret a single penny. Some of that money that I paid in went to pay for our dear friend P J Garrett’s treatment for renal failure. (Renal failure is covered under Medicare regardless of your age.) I’ve always liked to think that some of my dollars bought a bag of dialysis fluid for him.

Because if we all get together, we can feel all right.




47 thoughts on “Let’s Get Together”

  1. I would just like to point out that Nikki is probably required to carry small business insurance by her landlord, I know that I am required to as part of the rent for my business. ( I’m also a groomer) it pretty affordable, about 60.00 a month.
    All small business insurance has a section that covers injury or a medical crisis that interferes with your ability to work. It’s part of the reason you get insurance, so you don’t lose your business, or have to be reduced to on line begging to save your business. It’s your ( very affordable) safety net.
    With that fancy shop and her LLC status I’m sure she must be smart enough to be insured (add snark here) or at least her landlord is.


  2. The toxicity and the stupidity of these two jokers is mind boggling to me. They STILL don’t get it. That they question how insurance is not some “statist” funding mobile blows my mind. But they have a dead child in the grave and less than a week later they are back to posting their contrived “rural homestead” pics on BLH and the bullshit cop crap on NCN. Did anyone else think that the pic of the boy with the pear in his hand came not from one of the bountiful trees of the homestead but from a fruit gift basket from a mourner who sent them one? Honestly I think I need to step away from this shit. It is beyond comprehensible.


  3. I would just like to point out

    So, it’s possible they have a small policy that may or may not cover pregnancy-related stuff.


  4. First, this was a good read!

    You know, my husband just got laid off from his job and so, bye bye went our health insurance (can’t afford Cobra). It’s scary. Fortunately, he was hired at another company two weeks ago but unfortunately, we cannot afford their insurance. I have four kids and one who needs to go to an eye specialist so this blows, terribly.

    I’ve submitted apps to a few government agencies to put myself back in the work force and was emailed that my application made it through to the hiring boards so fingers crossed for us! But any way, it drives the point home that no American should ever have to worry about losing everything they own to a medical bill (we’re still paying an 18k bill the VA refused to cover for my spouse solely because he in que to be approved) or losing coverage through job loss or a life event. It’s enraging and it’s difficult for me to think about. I wish this could be an issue that we all agreed on. 🙁 but I’ll still hold out hope that we get it right eventually.


  5. the pear in his hand

    All I know is that we have a pear tree and we picked pears the other day. They are greener than green. We picked them early because if we don’t, the wasps get them. They are in our basement ripening right now and I bet it will be a week or more before they do. Breck County is north of me by a good many miles.


  6. Insurance is one of those things you carry and hope you never have to use. When I add up monthly premiums for all the insurance we carry it was be a bit overwhelming. But if our car is wrecked, we are covered. It’s happened and I’m glad we even opted for gap coverage since the car was 6 weeks old. We have life insurance, we got it as soon as we had our first child, I hope that neither of us ever need it but if one of us dies the other will not be financially impacted. Through the years I’ve had a few friends widowed with young kids, life insurance made it so they didn’t lose everything. We pay our homeowners insurance and when our home was damaged by a severe storm we were grateful for the coverage. And then there is business insurance, we’ve never used it. And health insurance. I’m sorry but we’ve used the heck out of that. Too many hospital visits and too many specialist visits but that’s what it’s for and I’m glad that we have it. Through the years the kids and my husband have always had coverage. I’ve been without on and off but thanks to the ACA I am insured and it’s wonderful even if I don’t use it.

    I know Nicole doesn’t like insurance, but it’s just part of being a responsible adult. My adult kids don’t like paying insurance either but they know it’s part of their bills.

    Wonderful post Sally. I can’t even fathom hospitals turning people away. I hope someday to see single payer here. It just makes the most sense.


  7. I am so pleased in the UK we have nhs and all medical bills are covered from the cradle to the grave


  8. I hope they realize that Nicole is at GREAT risk of suffering a stroke from a blood clot. Nicole really should be off work for at least 1 year. It will take her body time to recover. But we all know how well they listen to medical advice. By the end of the year Joe will have fertilized Nicole and by the end of August, Nicole will be back at work. I would hate to see how Joe handles an off-grid, special-needs Nicole.


  9. I have some medical questions. What would be the recommended recovery time for a traumatic both, like Nicole describes? What are the possible consequences of returning to work too soon?


  10. What would be the recommended recovery time for a traumatic both, like Nicole describes? What are the possible consequences of returning to work too soon?

    I honestly don’t know. I took care of ICU patients and sent them to regular rooms. And later on, I ran a recovery room at a same-day surgery. So I never dealt with that sort of thing.

    A lot of the whole “returning to work” thing is dependent on exactly how much work she did. If, for instance, she supervised her oldest daughter doing dog grooming, that might be fine, especially if she could sit down while doing it. Furthermore, the grooming shop is far better in terms of being sanitary and climate controlled than that fucking shed.


  11. Our healthcare system is paid for out of our taxes our employers deduct every pay period. Australian tax payers pay 1.5% of their taxes towards Medicare. That’s everyone. There is no opting in or out (unless you are paid in cash under the table). It’s the very definition of “Let’s get together and be alright”.
    Our taxes come out before we receive our pay, we get the remainder. The percentage of tax deducted depends upon how much each individual earns. Additionally, we can also take out private health insurance to cover things Medicare doesn’t like dental etc., although there have been pushes to have dental included in Medicare (something I agree with). With private health insurance, you can choose to stay in a cushy private hospital, instead of a public one, or a combination of both. If a person earns over a certain amount, and doesn’t choose private insurance, they pay an extra 1% levy toward Medicare. The reasoning behind this is if you earn say, $200,000, you should be able to afford private cover to take pressure off the public system.

    Medicare also covers medications. We have the PBS (Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme). Widely used medications are subsidised by the government so the patient doesn’t bear the full cost. Prescriptions for my epilepsy meds are $30 odd each, for example. If we were considered low income, we would receive a Healthcare Card, entitling us to scripts for about $4.00, as well as discounts on winter gas and electricity bills, public transport and a few other bits and pieces. The PBS is why an epi-pen here is around $30 instead of hundreds of dollars.

    Medicare isn’t perfect, there are gaps people fall into, sometimes the public hospitals screw up, sometimes they are over-burdened, but compared to the US, it’s brilliant, and most Australians value it immensely.

    Nicole and Joe aren’t half as smart or educated in things as they believe themselves to be, with recent events being a sad, tragic example. She made mention of the hospital allowing her to labor how she wished, on her knees, as if it were an amazing thing. She has no idea how much more “user friendly” maternity wards are now. They are both ignorant fools, and the failure of their GoFundMe to net a big payday (none of which would go to the hospital anyway) ought to show them that.


  12. I hope they realize that Nicole is at GREAT risk of suffering a stroke from a blood clot. Nicole really should be off work for at least 1 year.

    Well, there is a difference between acute and chronic DIC. However, yes, it’s a very, very serious condition and Joe says she had the worst case ever in the history of the planet, so. . .


  13. Thank you for your answer. I think this tragedy is just the beginning. I am afraid for what the next year holds. I am afraid to keep watching but I just can’t look away.


  14. I was waiting for this one…Nicole is having nothing to do with your statist government handout, she’d like you to do it twice via donation. She’s having none, zero, zip of our statist tax dollars. She will still gladly have round two with donations. You RATS hop on that donate button, I double dog dare you. Hehe Please don’t, hahahaha. Look at your pay stub, what is a good chunk out of your check…,free money for Nicole’s near death birth, it’s sad. Look at other free programs…ooohh, pregnant mom programs. I digress, it’s all to statist, publicly funded by the community. Hell…breaking all all the rules because they never beg, more monies please.


  15. O.M.G.

    Va Sports Mom, Thee Holiest Of Holy, patting the ENTIRE FJ forum on the back for their oh-so-compassionate gossip regarding current Naughler events, has now deemed enough time has passed to post THIS:
    “I have a fear of one of their dogs digging up an inadequately buried coffin and those kids awakening to a horrific scene one morning. A DIY funeral and burial should not be carried out by children. ”

    Anything and I DO mean anything we post here on Sally’s blog could never, EVER surpass this disgusting level of nasty, horrific conjecture.

    People like Va Sports Mom should be publicly shunned. For life. You are one very sick woman. Congrats.

    PS-apologies for even repeating that vileness here. But FJ needs a spotlight shined on it. Hypocritical, twisted minds over there!


  16. Add manslaughter to your list of achievements.

    Totally agree.
    Seems to me that at the very least, this would be medical neglect in the most severe way.

    Unschool lesson of the day:


  17. ahhhhhhh………FreeJinger sooo busy circle-jerking one another and having such adorably cute group hugs over their compassion and sincere, heartfelt words about the Naughlers…..ain’t it just all so SWEET and TWEE?? I could just *melt* reading their empathetic, love and tenderness! <3

    oh yeah, until they started talking about dismembered deceased infants and rabid coyotes, of course. O.O

    WHO in their *right* mind would even GO THERE?? And then have the fucking audacity and balls to put that UNSPEAKABLE scene on the internet (where it shall live 4evah) – where they bloody well know Nicole reads??

    Professional help. You know, what you always beseech the Naughlers to get? Yeah, GET IT for YOURSELVES. Un-fucking-believable. In-fucking-credible. And yet. It's being discussed……

    The jig is up, Freejinger.
    Sally? Thank you for remaining above the fray; ever more dignified, mature and TASTEFUL. Thank you.


  18. Well, Nicole’s band of followers just demonstrated their intelligence and skills of observation.

    When asked what she should do about her “very stiff back and neck and aches all over”

    They suggested the following:

    1. A hot bath! (you need plumbing and a tub)
    2. A hot shower! (you need plumbing and a shower)
    3. Bath additives…Epsom salt, oils, etc. (you need plumbing and a tub)
    4. A heating pad (heating pads, anything hot… draw a lot of electricity, would have to run generator..and it’s fucking HOT there)
    5. Ice (ok…better idea, but it’s not like they can open the freezer and get some from the ice maker)
    6. Swimming (in that pond?)
    7. Bean/rice bags that you put in the microwave. (microwave???)
    8. Pickle juice (because in addition to being a dillweed, you should smell like one)
    9. Chiropractor (If a Chiropractor had any sense they wouldn’t touch her for two weeks)
    10. Take Arnica! (I have to point out this “homeopathic” suggestion had 7 likes. This is particularly FUCKING STUPID because Arnica is an anticoagulant associated with a whole bunch of adverse events including internal bleeding and death)

    Not one of these geniuses said….”You’ve just experienced a life threatening cardiovascular event, you should call your doctor in the morning and ask what’s safe for you.” Or…”Look at your discharge instructions. Read them thoroughly, and see if they say anything about spinal stiffness or pain.”

    I did note someone advising her to check her temperature….which was smart. Another lady advised her to go back to her doctor to get checked out for infection….which could be good advice, but a call in the morning is probably the place to start unless things rapidly deteriorate.

    But yeah…wow… Go run yourself a nice deep tub! Are they paying any attention? One lady argued that the Naugs have running water, they just need to heat it up. Another posted her recipe for homemade ice packs…you just pop them in the freezer!

    Observant fuckers, aren’t they?


  19. I know one thing my doctors AND midwife would have just shrieked at my doing for a minimum of six weeks after an uncomplicated birth: lifting/moving a dog weighing more than, oh, a baby. Too much risk of renewed bleeding!

    Get a job, Joe.


  20. Penelope, that’s a good point. Hospitals are making strides in regards to being “user” friendly. The hospital near me doesn’t even have a nursery and actually has a birthing center right next door. I was also surprised with my last pregnancy, that the specialist I saw was comfortable letting me attempt a VBAC. He told me that he wanted his patients to birth in whatever way they choose, as long as it’s safe. I didn’t expect to hear that at all.


  21. When I got pregnant with my oldest son we had a pregnancy/baby policy. We were young, my husband was self-employed & I was in college. Fast forward to my sons 4 month checkup. Dr heard something in his exam of his heart. Immediately whisked us to the hospital next door for tests. This was before everyone had cell phones so I was there alone, scared, & overwhelmed. After lots of tests, we discovered my son had a super rare condition called TAPV, Total anomaly pulmonary Venus Return. He didn’t have veins taking oxygenated blood to his body & if he also didn’t have a hole in his heart he would have been born a blue baby. He needed open heart surgery & he needed it quickly. The small policy we had covered well dr visits only so we were in NO WAY able to afford this. We used up our savings (for a house) in the 1st two dr visits. At that point my Daddy & Father in law sat us both down & told us we needed to apply to Medicaid. They said we had both worked, they had worked their entire lives, & it was ok if we used some of the benefits that could be available to save our child.
    I have to tell you when we went into that office it was so difficult on my husband. He almost cried because they told us we might not qualify because his truck was newer than 7 years. When we got home that night he told me he was so sorry he hadn’t provided better for us. He had done fine, including taking on a night job after he finished his own work so I could take our son to the many dr’s appointments. We were approved & the surgeon who performed this rare surgery flew in to the children’s hospital from the Northeast.
    All of this rambling to say Medicaid saved my child. His hospital bills were in the 100’s of thousands of dollars. After that day, my husband took a job that had benefits. We have never been without health insurance again nor will we ever be.
    I have to ask, what kind of mother wouldn’t take Medicaid to save their child????

    PS-my son is wonderful. He actually is a college athlete now.


  22. Everything AL said x Million

    reading your post again this am and thinking of the baby. William died this past Friday (21)!!! Not even a week has passed and the discussion has drifted to insurance. His little body. Innocence. My Goodness!

    There’s something REALLY SINISTER about Joe and Nicole. It’s my opinion that Nikki was jealous of Faith and Jacob starting out their little family without infidelity (unlike Joe). FAITH was getting all the ATTENTION. The gifts. The nice hospital birth. What a coincidence that Nicole also ended up with a hospital birth that garnered more attention than Faith’s. Not!

    Nicole never posted a picture of herself with Faith. Or showed any excitement on becoming a Grandmother. Neither did she praise Faith for her first birth (something Nicole says Nicole should be praised for). Nicole said nothing about her son becoming a Daddy. Nicole was quite eloquent in the post on the death of her son. Published perfectly posed pictures. Described everything in detail. Diagnose was well explained and the post’s ending was well thought out. Moreover, Nicole went on and on on how she was had plenty of knowledge
    on birthing babies. She must of known that at her age as time went on, in her pregnancy she was at risk of placenta abruption.

    The way things have played out. And how quick they were to ask for money. I’m more and more suspicious that there’s more to the story.

    I don’t worry though.
    Life has a way of exposing our true colors.


  23. PS-apologies for even repeating that vileness here.

    That’s why I don’t read their idiotic nonsense.


  24. Never have I had a dr mention price of stuff.

    Not once in the entire time I was working did I ever hear a doctor or nurse discuss the cost of care with a patient, ever. For one thing, most doctors and nurses, and that included me, have no idea what stuff like that costs. When Dave went on high blood pressure medication, the drug prescribed for him was expensive, even with Medicare Part D. I went online, looked up the drug and how it worked, and then found another drug with the same mode of action (anti-hypertensive drugs come in a few different flavors). Dave, armed with what I found, went to his doctor and asked if he could try substituting this much cheaper drug. The doctor was fine with that and wrote another prescription. Dave has been on that medication ever since.

    His doctor was not trying to stiff him in order to benefit Big Pharma. He just didn’t know what stuff cost.

    Joe and Nicole aren’t exactly reliable reporters. They often hear what they want to hear, not what was actually said. And their retelling of the story is embellished or edited heavily.

    My take on what Joe says that the doctor said is this. Joe asked outright, “This is going to be expensive, isn’t it?” Doc answers, “Well, it’s serious.” Or, “Well, it won’t be cheap.” Or something just that vague.


  25. They pretend to be too prideful for Medicaid (when really they just want cash donations) but they’re not prideful enough to actually make arrangements to pay the bills themselves. If it truly was their pride speaking, they would be paying, not begging.


  26. I’m truly grateful for health insurance I pay a lot ( minimal by some standards) but it’s worth it for the most part. We did IVF to conceive our girls (none of it was covered) and we paid five figures to conceive. Fast forward to week 2o in pregnancy and I was in the hospital in preterm labor, 24 weeks full bedrest scary because I carry our insurance through my job. 5 trips to the hospital for random pregnancy issues. At 32 weeks 2 days my water broke and a little after midnight our girls were born by emergency c section. The OR was crazy I had multiple Drs, nurses and respitory therapists but so did EACH baby. They were tiny 3 pounders but overall healthy. We spent 28 days in the NICU. I eventually got our statements, we owed nothing, finally sunlight in our crazy journey. My emergency c section was $50,000 and each babies stay was over $400,000. I can not imagine the bill had we not been insured, had truly sick babies and longer NICU stays. The reason I tell this story is that these miracles would have bankrupted us and we would have lost everything we worked so hard for. Not once while in the hospital did I worry about them not doing everything in their power to treat me or my girls I worried about the cost until I spoke with the insurance company when adding them to our policy days after they were born.


  27. Joe writes, “Plus there are other expenses involved such as travel and such.” How on earth would they even be able to set up a payment plan if they don’t even have enough money for a couple extra trips into town? The hospital is only 15 minutes away from the shop. Maybe Joe had to buy a meal from Hardee’s while he was in town, but I’d think they’d have enough money for that without having to beg.

    There is no way they are going to hit another $45,000 jackpot this time and I’m sure any money they do collect they will keep for themselves instead of putting it towards the medical bills. They either apply for aid, or the Dr.s, hospital, lab and everyone else involved are going to get stiffed. How moral is that Nicole?


  28. I have been watching the latest tragedy, at first in tears, then on closer examination many questions come to mind.

    Her blog post states that she was driven to the hospital ER by her husband and a minor child, she also states that the doctors had “The Talk” with both of them. Was that the same stern talk doctors had with me and my husband after he drove me to ER while I was having a stroke or when he again drove me while having severe angina? What if she had stopped breathing or went into shock, where they equipped to start life support while transporting her? I doubt it, when you have a situation where a semi conscious person is involved call EMS, they can start life support, administer fluids, notify the ER so they can know and prepare more efficiently, and most important perform life saving procedures a minor child passenger in a van can not. Or, was that the “The Talk” doctors had with my mother who never received prenatal care and only went to the hospital when she delivered her nine children. During her last pregnancy in her late 30’s she went to the hospital not feeling well, her situation was similar, she was bleeding internally and the baby was still alive but in distress, they explained at her age and number of pregnancies (she had a couple of miscarriages previously) she was wore out and seriously needed to stop having children, that she and or her child may not survive, an emergency C-Section and Hysterectomy along with many units of blood products saved them both. Is that “The Talk”?

    Next question is since they are self treating when an medical situation arises there are no medical records for doctors to compare, there is only self reporting of conditions that may or may not be accurate. A doctor will not make a determination of overall health based on self reporting even and especially without noting such in the charts, would they?

    What other medical conditions were found during her testing while in the hospital that now require treatment? Will she follow up or become non-compliant? Could this be the medical expenses not covered? More follow up doctor visits and medications not included in the hospital bill?

    I, like others, feel that the child could have survived and that this situation could have been prevented with prenatal care and an early intervention, but, we will never know for sure.

    I could fill a page with questions like, who the hell needs a measly $10k GFM to cover things like travel expenses for a 30 mile trip to a doctor or hospital, what kind of gas mileage you getting in that jalopy of a van?

    Stop with the Bull Shit already, did you not learn anything from all of this? Do we need to post a video on You Tube University so you will understand?


  29. No one needs to worry about animals messing with graves that are dug in ground that is too rocky to dig a proper garden or outhouse/septic on. Sure there are wolves that will eat kids on bikes if no one is armed that day but I’m sure it will be fine.

    Better send money just in case. Lots of money, not a measly $10,000. Ten thousand isn’t enough to pay for gas to get to the end of the driveway. Travel is expensive you know.

    I think I would have sent them money myself if they had asked for a headstone for the grave. …They do have one of those, right?


  30. From her blog:

    “The staff here at Hardin Memorial have been amazing. Observing the team work made me feel very comfortable. That’s very important to the care given. My needs were listened to. I felt I had control over my medical decisions and never felt bullied. I understood most of what was going on and when I didn’t they made sure to explain things well. Three doctors oversaw my care and all three were gentle, kind and professional. The nurses took care of me like I was a dear friend. I am so grateful they made this traumatic experience as easy as possible.”

    Then sign up for Medicaid and let the hospital get paid, Nicole and Joe! Make your child’s death worth something more than fucking begging online for money the hospital will never see.

    Please, please Universe…never let her get pregnant again. Hoping this was also “a talk” the physicians gave them!


  31. First off the people at FJ are just a bunch of bittys sitting around slobbering all over each other feining suprise over what is written here and over there. I see them as old bats sitting around the dining room table whispering rumors .
    As for our favorite vermin, lets be real. They never had any intention of paying anything to save the head vermins life. This money from the latest scam is just to line there pockets and make sure jabba has his weed. Every winter I get field mice, they get into everything in the garage, I do my best to get rid of them, but like the vermin they are, I cant get rid of all of them. Some poeple in our society are like that, Vermin you cant get rid of them you almost have to learn to live with them.
    Like some people


  32. I am very lucky to live in the UK. I had my baby just over two weeks ago and though he is fine his birth was not straight forward. I was induced as my waters had broken for more than 24 hours. I ended up with an emergency delivery as baby was suffering decelerations due to my body’s over reaction to the pitocin. My baby is alive, I am alive and I get zero bills because of the NHS.

    We all pay national insurance on our earnings and just one of the things it pays for is free healthcare. We get free scans, blood tests, prenatal care, have at least two home visits for two weeks after birth from the midwives then more after that from the health visitors. My baby’s 8 week check up, vaccinations and indeed all healthcare for the rest of our lives is covered.

    My medical decisions were not based on affordability and my baby was given every opportunity to live and be born healthy. I cannot imagine losing a child and my heart breaks for any who do. However to choose not to get your children healthcare not because you cannot afford to do so but because you are too stupid to understand insurance and refuse to use the programs your kids qualify for is just wrong. Those kids deserve so much better.


  33. I’m not a fan of FJ, but I wanted to mention that not every person who reads or posts there is a horrible person. I would list my favorites but they might get scorched by the rest, so I’ll refrain.

    I think I’ll skip that portion of the thread when I get around to reading it again. I also believe that the kids would do a good job for their little brother (sturdy little box, deep hole, even if they had to use a fence post tamper’s other end to bust up rocks). Unlike their idiot parents.


  34. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    I have a job. I have health insurance. When I receive a bill for medical services, it will often have outrageous amounts for doctor services, lab work, xrays, or medical supplies. These things are itemized on my bill. I can see that the hospital’s charge for a band-aid was $60.

    My $60 band-aid is listed in column 1. In column 2, I can see that my insurance has pre-negotiated the cost of a band-aid on behalf of all their insurance customers and the agreed upon rate is only $30. My insurance pays the $30 for the band-aid, but I’m not responsible for paying the other $30. The hospital rates for such items are inflated on purpose and they have already agreed to accept only $30 from my insurance company.

    If that is correct and the *if* the Nauglers really don’t have insurance, then I believe their bill will only show the prices for items in column 1 above, right? Without an insurance company to negotiate costs for them, ALL of their hospital bills will be outrageous…. And *if* they are really using GFM money for medical bills, then everyone who contributes is paying $60 for a band-aid. No negotiated rates, no reductions in price…it’s like asking the cashier at the grocery store to ring up your sale items at full price…because someone else is paying for them.

    1) I wonder if Joe and Nicole told Jacob he created the GFM in advance or if he learned about it like we did, by following the Blessed Little Homestead on Facebook.

    2) I lived in MA when Romney’s healthcare plan was implemented. It worked and it worked damn well. But that was before greedy Republicans got hold of it on the federal level and made changes to line their own pockets.


  35. Please explain how getting the kids on Medicaid wasn’t a requirement before regaining custody?


  36. I know I am very greatful for medical insurance. About 5 years ago my husband was in a serious motorcycle accident. He had a bad cut on his leg that was just centimeters away from his main artery. It happened on a Wednesday night. He was in the trama center until Sunday. He had two surgeries, and was air lifted to the trama center in Louisville ( that is not cheap, well over $40,000 and we only had to pay $20 of that bill). All in all we payed out of pocket maybe around $200.

    So yeah I will gladly pay for our medical insurance every 3 month ( we pay every three months cause of how low our payment is).


  37. How would it work.. If everyone was like the nogs.. have a crisis.. beg for tens of thousands of dollars? I don’t even see how that could possibly work if it became some standard.. I am in Canada.. and most Canadians are happy as punch with our system. We honestly don’t think twice about going to the doctor.. baby has sniffles.. run to a walk in clinic and have their ears checked.. things work oh so much better when people pool their money during good times and bad so they are covered in an emergency.
    The only way I could have absolutely ANY respect for them at all was if they refused to accept any government.. insurance.. etc was if their worked their butts off and paid for things themselves. don’t want insurance and want to pay put of pocket? have at it!!! I cannot wrap my head around her attitude of accepting money as she says hut yet begs and happily accepts it from anyone.. literally.. anyone..
    If you want to have this independent I am so cool attitude Joe and Nick.. how about start working and saving and paying your OWN way??

    just a side note.. that post with her oldest working under the car??!!!?! Why don’t they get him some unschooling so he learns how to do it right if he enjoys it? one thing slips and they will be burying 2 sons this month. It happens..


  38. I’m still confused by Joe and Nicole’s conflicting answers of whether or not they have insurance. Have they got their stories straight yet?

    I also saw Joe state the GFM was needed for transportation and such.
    What transportation? She didn’t go to a hospital in another state! What is “and such”? What possible legitimate need could they have for $10,000?


  39. The older kids may actually be on Medicaid, that doesn’t mean that NN was compelled to sign up. I doubt they could require a baby that hasn’t been born yet to be on Medicaid.


  40. Please explain how getting the kids on Medicaid wasn’t a requirement before regaining custody?

    Most likely, the children do have coverage. Their case is still open and it’s quite likely that they only have physical custody. According to this link anyway:

    The children were eventually returned to the physical custody of the Nauglers in July (the Nauglers now reportedly have improved living facilities), but the state retained legal custody of the children, meaning the state and not the parents has the power to make decisions regarding the children’s welfare.


  41. My question, and I ask with sincere motives, is how in the world did they bury that baby on land contract land? They don’t own it. The KY Land Company does. So if they default and have to leave, does the next owner get baby Naugler’s grave on their property?


  42. Want to know at least one of the reasons for the outrageous costs? There is a shortage of saline in the U.S. It’s been going on for far too long. I can’t tell you what I’ve had to go through in order to get it but it’s been hell. I’ve had it come from ITALY.


    I’m not the only one upset about it too.


    No, Nicole, you can’t just boil water, add salt, hook up an i.v. and be okay. There is a LOT more to the process. Well, YOU can and I would quietly say, “Stop, stop, don’t do that, it’s dangerous” but hope you wouldn’t hear me or heed my words. Plus the whole “practicing medicine without a license” issue that wouldn’t phase you – until you screwed up. Then I guess you could blame someone for not being robust enough or something.


  43. does the next owner get baby Naugler’s grave on their property?


    The Kentucky Land Company does not care. I have said this at least fifty times. They just want their payment. They don’t care.


  44. So if they default and have to leave, does the next owner get baby Naugler’s grave on their property?

    Yes, that is the case.


  45. So if they default and have to leave, does the next owner get baby Naugler’s grave on their property?

    My cousin bought a hundred-year-old farmhouse on a couple acres of land in the country last year that actually has a grave on it. The previous owners buried a stillborn baby on the premises in 1999. It was their tenth or eleventh child. The grave site has an expensive stone monument. My cousin has a verbal arrangement with the sellers to allow them to visit the site from time to time. Definitely an interesting set of circumstances to consider when buying real estate.


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