Just in Case

Just in case you haven’t seen this before, or want to send some potential victim over here and want this to show up all handy right on top, here’s a bit of a record of the online begging history of Joe and Nicole.

And I’d totally forgotten about this one, because I didn’t write it. It was done by the Nefarious Please, who as a little committee managed the blog while I was away last year.

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62 thoughts on “Just in Case”

  1. After several of my facebook friends liked and shared the link to NN’s birth story, I finally decided to click and read it. My BS meter immediately went off and I took to google and found this blog. So–thank you for this. My hope is that there are a lot of people out there like me who will google first before investing emotionally or financially in these people. When people are saying “get a life” for writing about this, remember there could be many more like me who are reading and getting the real story and declining to support them.

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  2. When people are saying “get a life” for writing about this, remember there could be many more like me who are reading and getting the real story and declining to support them.

    And you might win the internet today. I know people are out there, but damn it gets hard when you’re seen as being mean to a poor woman who just lost her dearly beloved baby.

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  3. Tainted money… grifting from kind caring folks fraudulently is far worse than being a whore to the state. For the love of gawd… go sign up for medicaid, food stamps, and/or food pantry. You will make more money in the long run and they will help provide some services for you instead of wasting all this time and effort for someone to donate that makes far less than you do. Not that your sorry ass even cares… all you want is the damn money. Shameful and dishonest.

    I really do not believe the image of two older siblings making a casket for their little brother… and lovingly digging a hole for him to be buried in. I am more apt to believe that a lazy fat ass father was demanding the kids do this for him/her. Where’s the photos of the burial? Or any others since all they did was the ones posed for. SICK SICK SICK! Using a poor defenseless baby to grift for your greedy ass cause. Dumbasses! Those that donate and believe your shit yet one more time just makes me want to slam my head against a wall. I’m dumbfounded at the stupidity out there on the internet.

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  4. There’s a sucker born every minute.
    Fools easily parted from their money, with a good story.
    The Nauglers know this.

    How fastJoe started rubbing his hands together with glee to make some money off his dead son!

    If they didn’t sign up for Medicaid they deliberately stiffed the hospital and its staff so that they could pretend to raise money for them on GoFund Me.
    If they did sign up for Medicaid, then their begging on Go Fund Me is fraudulent.

    Nicole is trying to convince her followers of the idiocy that insurance is the same as Go Fund Me. And there are idiots who believe her….The same idiots that say “don’t pick on poor Nicole she just lost her baby”
    Nicole lost her baby because she was willing to take the chance that she could lose him.
    Sorry, in my opinion, that’s neglect and akin to manslaughter.
    Yes I know people are saying there’s no way to know if it could have been prevented… and they are right!.. because Nicole did nothing to prevent it.

    I’m only sad and broken-hearted for William and his brothers and sisters.
    They have to live wth these two notorious scammers.

    I doubt Jacob wrote that statement for Go Fund Me, even if he did give his permission, probably out of love and some pressure.

    This is a horrible way to memorialize baby William.
    And I shutter to think that when the land changes hands again what will happen to that little grave.
    So sad.

    PS…
    I’ve gone from crying while I read Nicole’s birth blog and actually feeling badly for her, to being furious with her and Joe.
    I even sent a message to one of the anti Naugler facebook sites to fuss at them for their not so nice comments after William was born dead.
    Yep, I’ve changed my mind…
    Nicole and Joe are creeps for making money off a dead baby.

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  5. They may get a few thousand dollars out of this by the time they’re done.

    But they’ve also just admitted publicly that in two years they’re still dependent and unable to care for their kids by themselves. That won’t look good in Family Court. At all.

    One thing the Nauglers know how to do….is screw themselves.

    And ya know….honestly…I expected the fund raising to be going better for them. When I sat down tonight, I expected the go fund me to have surpassed it’s goal and show thousands. Dead baby pictures are typically incredibly emotionally manipulative, and effective. I’m actually quite surprised that people seem to be getting wise to them.

    Thousands of shares….only hundreds of dollars. Could people be growing sense?

    I wonder what they’ll do when the internet cash cow has completely dried up?

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  6. The latest thing bugging me is both parents’ insistence that Nicole was in tip-top shape throughout her pregnancy with no signs of anything being wrong with her amazingly perfect physical condition. I beg to differ from my perch in my medical professional armchair. She showed signs of anemia — she stated that she craves chewing ice and even took a glib jab at all the ‘trolls’ who were gonna screech about that being a sign of something (it is a sign of pagophagia) , she was pale and just ill looking, and IMO probably most indicative of a problem, she had great difficulty focusing and completing thoughts and sentences. She would gaze off into the distance frequently mid sentence in a way that indicated something pretty severe in terms of vitamin deficiency. I know many people pointed it out every time she posted a video.

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  7. Also even if I thought these folks were just terrific, I would cringe at being referred to as one of their ‘followers’.

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  8. Blessed Little Homestead
    I’ve allowed quite a bit of hostility as I want those who are new to our page, and anyone else with real concerns to see what we have had to endure, and this is nothing in comparison…

    It’s what happens when one doesn’t fit the cultural normalcy bias… and in some cases it’s purely hostility in our current political charged culture… and in some cases it’s just nationalism gone wrong with some good Ole boy bs…

    However one tries to explain it it is unjustifiable!

    The “articles” and “blogs” that one might come across when googleing us are just these nasty hostile trolls trying to give some kind of credibility to their defamatory bullshit in an attempt to smear our names and give reason that our lifestyle and views, be it political religious or otherwise, should be deemed as abusive. Giving reason that every aspect of our lives should in fact be monitored, regulated and policy driven, and that we in fact are not free. And to convince anyone that we are horrible people and that they know us and are the “other side” of the story…

    However they are not and in fact do not know us personally. Sure they have screen shots of out of context Facebook drama, contention and conflict that they themselves have aggressively instigated if even faked, but other than that they have nothing to give fact to their “humble” opinions. And in most cases are just overdramatizing normal situations… -for example, when my children became sick with food poison. Most of the children had snacked on some pancakes that were put in a bag while hot from the stove. Making the moisture build up in the bag and then the sun and heat from the day turned it bad. They became sick with food poison and whilst going through it, as it is very treatable by remaining hydrated while the body rejects the poison, they had decided to lay outside on their sleeping bags in the cool evening air. All while the one who didn’t eat them helped doctor them. It was a simple thing that was easily treated, and if I recall the only time any off them have ever had food poison. However the trolls take this simple thing and add dramatic words and language to build it up as a horrific thing…

    I get it though… opinions don’t need facts… however paid marketed blogs, podcasts, numerous Facebook pages used to, and in reference for, the spreading of defamatory stories and smear campaigns is more than just sharing a “humble” opinion and is in fact criminal if even harassment…

    I will clarify a few things for those new and anyone with genuine curiosity…

    As for our son William joseph, the doctors and all the nurses stated profusely that due to Williams size, development and apparently health as well as Nicole outstanding health and with her not feeling any abnormal discomfort or pain nothing would have picked it up. That due to William not having any decay to even indicate death it more than likely happened that very morning and that we did everything we could have being that we went right to the hospital…

    We were a first for quite a bit of things for the Hardin memorial hospital.

    They were trying desperately to figure out how to save Nicole’s life as her case of dic was the worst they’ve ever seen and in fact the worst anyone could have..

    I would very much like to commend the hospital, the doctors and especially the nurses for everything they did. They were amazing! And beyond all their training and professionalism they had such compassion and care for our whole well being and not just Nicole’s but us as a family.

    Now for us and our lifestyle… it has been testified in court by those given authority to investigate such things, even in violation of our rights, that we were not and have not broken any laws with regards to how we live or anything going on on our property or even and especially how we raise our children, and that even more so we are an amazing loving family with well mannered well spoken highly sociable and intelligent children. And that we do in fact have every right to live as we see fit.

    Now these trolls have constantly and continually call, anonymously of course, every and any government agency from the local, state and federal levels and still nothing is ever found or substantiated…

    We are in fact as amazing as all our pictures and posts show… 😉 which in fact I am very proud of and blessed for.

    With regards to our lifestyle, yes we are minimalists. Where 13 people live in a small cozy cabin. We just figured out just how much of our home was wasted space, we consolidated our living spaces and needs, minimalized our wants… most of our time is spent outdoors anyways…

    We are off grid.

    We do aspire to homestead, with lots of mistakes and change in direction, and we will continue to head in a homesteady direction.

    We are constantly learning and experiencing wilderness living and survival skills…

    For the most part we are just bringing a more back to basics simple intimate environment to our family dynamics…

    To which none of is against the law and to which we as parents have every right and reason to do.

    Now as much as I’m addressing the concerns falsely created by the trolls and anyone with their own genuine concerns I want to also address the love, prayers and support we have also felt, as that seems to be 95% of what we encounter.

    We are blown away by all the love, prayers and support! <3 we find great hope in an ever complacent and contentious world! It has added such great beauty and a marvelous wonder to our already unshakable testimonies! It has become such an inspiring example to my children! We thank all of you for you support and continued prayers!

    ~HH (aka homestead hubby)

    I think he’s communicating. This is the guy “unschooling” children? If I were one of his students I would demand a refund.

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  9. Does it appear to anyone else that Jacob’s wording of the gogriftme includes himself?
    I will never ever give money to a family who have continuously gone after parents who have lost children.
    They have doxed these parents and stalked them and said nasty things again and again and again.
    Nicole especially has said such vile disgusting things it boggles the normal human mind.

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  10. Nicole is claiming that she refused Medicaid.

    We didn’t apply. We chose voluntary aid over coerced. If people help even a little that’s helps. It’s our moral decision, people can degrade us for it, but we know we did the right thing.

    You chose the equivalent of online panhandling over Medicare, not because of your morals, Nicole, but because of your ignorance and your pride. The result is going to be that the hospital bill will likely not be paid, and your already precarious financial situation will be ruined. Your supporters are not going to be able to foot this bill. You’ve made it quite clear by your previous posts that you don’t actually understand how medical insurance and medical assistance work (you seem to think that cumulative insurance premiums paid are deducted from a medical bill???), but it’s time to face some hard truths and accept the medical assistance that has been offered to you. If you don’t, you will end up stiffing those nice hospital workers who saved your life, and teaching your kids that your opinions (NOT your “morals”) are more important than your obligations.

    OR……..Joe could get a job and you guys could actually pay your own bills for a fucking change.

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  11. The latest thing bugging me is both parents’ insistence that Nicole was in tip-top shape throughout her pregnancy with no signs of anything being wrong with her amazingly perfect physical condition.

    The thing is that she claims that on Thursday night she was in perfect medical condition as assessed by herself, and by Friday noon, her labs were so bad they repeated them because they thought it was a mistake. I am skeptical of that claim.

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  12. I won’t address Nicole’s supposed great health because I’m not a medical professional. I will say that I’ve known many pregnant women and I’ve been pregnant a half dozen times. Just comparing her to two people I personally know that gave birth in the last two months she didn’t look too good. Everyone, myself included, had that glow they talk about. That healthy look. Nicole didn’t. Just judging from the videos she loves to put out there she didn’t look good. But who knows.

    Nicole tends to spin anything and everything. If her mouth is open she is spinning. The past has shown she can’t be trusted to be honest.

    And Joe, well he’s special. More word salad from him. He’s barely coherent. Perhaps it’s the pot speaking, perhaps it’s just because his brain is so delusional it’s fried. He’s always good for a laugh. But laughs don’t put food on the table and laughs don’t bury you dead child. As entertaining as Joe can be, he is a failed man. He is a worthless example of a father and husband. He’s no longer that funny.

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  13. Don’t forget the edema. It was terrible. Also, she was constantly complaining of being under the weather. I swear she lost at least one more tooth.

    No, she was not healthy, and she knew it.

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  14. Also, calcification doesn’t occur overnight.

    http://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(15)00335-X/abstract
    Disseminated intravascular coagulation in pregnancy: insights in pathophysiology, diagnosis and management

    Offer Erez, MD’Correspondence information about the author MD Offer ErezEmail the author MD Offer Erez, Salvatore Andrea Mastrolia, MD, Jecko Thachil, MD

    Disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC) is a life-threatening situation that can arise from a variety of obstetrical and nonobstetrical causes. Obstetrical DIC has been associated with a series of pregnancy complications including the following: (1) acute peripartum hemorrhage (uterine atony, cervical and vaginal lacerations, and uterine rupture); (2) placental abruption; (3) preeclampsia/eclampsia/hemolysis, elevated liver enzymes, and low platelet count syndrome; (4) retained stillbirth; (5) septic abortion and intrauterine infection; (6) amniotic fluid embolism; and (7) acute fatty liver of pregnancy. Prompt diagnosis and understanding of the underlying mechanisms of disease leading to this complication in essential for a favorable outcome. In recent years, novel diagnostic scores and treatment modalities along with bedside point-of-care tests were developed and may assist the clinician in the diagnosis and management of DIC. Team work and prompt treatment are essential for the successful management of patients with DIC.

    snip

    Regular clinical and laboratory surveillance
    Because DIC is a dynamic process, close monitoring of the patient is crucial to evaluate clinical improvement or worsening, to assess whether the process of DIC is abated, and notice the development of complications including organ failure, allowing prompt intervention.

    Repeated monitoring of the laboratory values including full blood count for hemoglobin and platelet count and clotting screen including fibrinogen is needed.

    Seeking assistance from the relevant specialists at the earliest

    DIC is a complex condition in which dysfunction in multiple organ systems contributes to the pathophysiology, and as such, the obstetrician should not be left alone in managing the patients but he or she should be involved as the part of a group of physicians from different specialties. As a consequence, attending surgeons, intensive care specialists, and hematologists, but also all the people involved in the patient care, including nurses and support staff, must take part in the case management (Figure 3).

    Conclusions

    DIC is a life-threatening situation that can arise from a variety of obstetrical and nonobstetrical causes. Prompt diagnosis and understanding the underlying mechanisms of disease leading to this complication in essential for favorable outcome. In recent years novel diagnostic scores and treatment modalities along with bedside point-of-care tests were developed and may assist the clinician in the diagnosis and management of DIC. Team work and prompt treatment are essential for the successful management of patients with DIC.

    Psst…Joe & Nicole. Team work doesn’t mean just the two of you. Your hubris cost your son his life. Okay, hubris is a big word to throw at Joe, so let me use one with which he may be more familiar – arrogance.

    hu·bris
    ˈ(h)yo͞obrəs/Submit
    noun
    excessive pride or self-confidence.
    synonyms: arrogance, conceit, haughtiness, hauteur, pride, self-importance, egotism, pomposity, superciliousness, superiority; informalbig-headedness, cockiness

    (in Greek tragedy) excessive pride toward or defiance of the gods, leading to nemesis.

    Debra – I’m ordering at least two trolls this weekend. I hope you’re not sick of making them!

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  15. Management of the underlying condition that predisposes to DIC
    DIC is an intermediary mechanism of disease and is always secondary to an underlying process. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that the mortality of DIC associated with placental abruption is less than 1%, whereas that associated with sepsis related to obstetrical cases is 50–80%.13 For this reason, appropriate management of the primary condition is paramount in limiting the excess thrombin generation.

    Dumb asses.

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  16. This has been bothering me, I have read and reread her “birth story” it’s not adding up…she specifically that O was with her while Joe was gone then she says that I was with them that morning and goes on to explain that J picked him up after work and they were only two that knew. My question is where was O? Did they leave her at the shop by herself? Something just isn’t right about her story. I also can’t find anything on the baby’s record of death, surely it has to be recorded with the hospital or somewhere

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  17. This still birth did in fact happen. I can’t talk about how I know that, but it did.

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  18. Going a little off topic here but I really hope they put porch steps on the shed-cabin because the idea of anyone post birth climbing a ladder makes me a little nauseous.

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  19. Would the baby have survived with early detection and treatment of the issues contributing to his death? We will never know. Unknown. It’s just as disingenuous to say he would have lived as it is to say she’s blameless. Reality: it’s unknown.

    Would high risk prenatal care have detected and corrected the problems that lead to his death? Unknown. Very possibly. But maybe not. We don’t know for sure. No one ever will.

    Things we do know:

    *Women with high risk pregnancies who do not seek prenatal care have worse outcomes and vastly higher infant mortality than women who get high risk prenatal care.

    *You can’t do an ultrasound at home. You can’t measure amniotic fluid at home. You can’t watch the progression of placental calcification at home. You can’t see if you’re spilling protein in your urine at home. You can’t monitor your infant’s heart rate for distress at home. And yes, we know that these pieces of information (among others) can be life saving. Could they have been in Nicole’s case? Again…Unknown.

    *Would the baby have lived if delivered by C-section a week before his death? All known evidence indicates that this is likely. But again, without a post mortem of the baby for internal congenital issues, we don’t know for sure. Did the baby’s death contribute to the cascade effect of her placenta failing and blood clotting issue…or did the placental failure and resulting cascade cause the baby’s death? Chicken, or egg? Again…unknown.

    *Would a high-risk OBGYN have suggested C-section a week or more before the baby died? Likely. Very likely. Particularly if changes were being noticed in amniotic fluid volume and placental calcification, or if a congenital issue were discovered and evaluated. Could this have effected a better outcome? Almost certainly.

    Hopefully, a lesson has been learned. If the Nauglers get pregnant again….and they will….Nicole needs high risk pre-natal care. If at any point the doctors indicate that a C-section is advised, she would be insane not to have one. If she doesn’t learn this lesson this time around, she could very well die the next time around. She’s astronomically lucky she didn’t this time.

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  20. Speaking of being skeptical…..I, personally, think she is double dipping. I doubt they denied whatever medical assistance was offered. “We didn’t apply. We chose voluntary aid over coerced.”
    I’m sorry I just really doubt they didn’t apply.

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  21. She did lose another tooth along the way to a dead child. But in her mind she could have lost all her teeth and toes and still screeched she knows her body and it was a ok in her mind. The thought of her kids nailing some boards together to bury there brother disgust me, Yes I know thats how it was done in the old days. But still. And wehn they get booted off this piece of property, do they just move on to the next and just forget about the kid they left behind. I have never seen anyone that just keeps fucking up an think its normal

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  22. I’m sorry I just really doubt they didn’t apply.

    I know for certain that they are not now getting anything like food stamps. I don’t doubt for one second that they didn’t apply for Medicaid. To do so, they would have had to produce income tax returns and lots of other documentation about their finances. That isn’t going to happen if Nicole can stop it.

    That said, not one cent of the GFM money will go to the hospital. When people are struggling under bills they cannot pay, they typically don’t even try to pay down a large bill. They use what money they can get their hands on for current expenses, reasoning that since they can’t pay the whole bill, they will pay nothing at all.

    Ever have somebody owe you $100? They’ll just owe the $100 forever, instead of doing the reasonable thing and paying you $10 every now and then until they get it paid down. People who can’t get credit because they don’t pay their bills are like that.

    That hospital/doctor bill is going to be massive.

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  23. About prenatal care and Nicole’s insistence that prenatal care does nothing. Remember the two hour van rambling video they made? The one where she said prenatal care was not needed because she knew her body? Remember when she said doctors can’t see anything more than she would know? Yeah. I remember it well. And I remember what happened during my prenatal care for all my pregnancies. I was technically high risk after my third pregnanacy. My pregnancies were close and my third was quite large. Even though I was young and healthy, my doctor kept a close eye on me. My fifth was delivered early because I was measuring large again. I tended to go late with all my pregnancies. I had many late ultrasounds and non-stress tests. Lots of blood work and more pee tests than I care to count. And of course blood pressure monitoring.

    Just a few weeks ago my SIL was induced early because her blood pressure was elevated. Doctors don’t take chances with babies or mothers. That’s why prenatal care is so important. They can see things with their diagnostic tools that we can’t.

    So I find it highly suspect that the doctors told her there was nothing that could have been done. Just like I find it highly unlikely that the judge has repeatedly complimented them on their wonderful parenting skills and highly impressive kids.

    Like I said before they spin, which is just a fancy way of saying they are lying assholes.

    If Nicole really felt remourseful she’d come out and explain what can go wrong without prenatal care. But in the end she is so delusional she really doesn’t believe it would have made a difference. If she did she’d have to admit she doesn’t know every fucking thing.

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  24. I can’t believe all you people on here can be so cruel to a family who just lost their child. Just because people choose to live differently than the SO CALLED normal lives like everyone else doesn’t mean that they are wrong. Why can’t everyone just leave them alone and tend to your own nosy lives???????

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  25. I can’t believe all you people on here can be so cruel to a family who just lost their child.

    Did you just comment or did you bother to read the pieces I linked to above?

    That woman that you feel so sorry for mocked my dead son. Do you feel badly for me? I bet not. What about the other mothers who were mocked by Nicole because their children died? Do you feel badly for them? Or do you just feel badly for somebody if their kid died last week but consider it all nothing if the death happened years or months before?

    And why are you here? Why can’t you just tend to your own life?

    By the way, Nicole is actively searching for suckers like you. Go donate. While you’re doing that, we’ll send some kids to camp, for real.

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  26. We didn’t apply. We chose voluntary aid over coerced. If people help even a little that’s helps. It’s our moral decision, people can degrade us for it, but we know we did the right thing.

    Nicole, if this is true you are a greater fool than I thought. Saddling yourself with a bill that will be no less than $200,000. A bill that you can not pay. And for what? More proof that you are dependent? The courts, if I remember correctly, can use this newest grift Festival as evidence against you, as well as, the above quote.

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  27. Saddling yourself with a bill that will be no less than $200,000.

    I think it will be high, but not that high.

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  28. They will likely have to come up with that documentation anyway, just to create a payment plan.

    The last few people I knew that had sudden, life threatening illnesses crop up that required a trip to the ER and hospitalization without insurance had to produce their latest tax returns, pay stubs, identifying information for dependents, utility bills and bank statements. All that before the financial aid at the hospital would entertain a payment plan, or even debt forgiveness.

    The hospital has social workers that keep an eye out for potential Medicaid situations. They would rather submit the information you give them to the state and get paid that way, then take 25 dollar a month payments on a 150k bill. They have to pay for equipment and hospital staff, after all.

    Her refusal to accept help in this matter is actually disgusting, and non helpful to herself, the hospital, and the taxpayers.

    So much for her voluntarism. She availed herself of services paid for by tax money (yeah, hospitals are hugely dependent on tax dollars) at a facility that could not refuse her care. If she had taken care of herself, there would not be bills as large as she is about to receive.
    They couldn’t say no to her care, she said no to them getting paid for what they provided in a timely and fair manner. Taxpayers will still be hosed, and they couldn’t say no either.

    Some wonderful convictions there, Nikki.

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  29. Did FJ remove the last Naugler thread? It looks as though they have shut the page down.

    No, we are still over there clutching our pearls and being holier than thou. Or you know, discussing things like you are, in a different way on a different forum.

    Huge Sally-fan and yet an FJ poster

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  30. I’m not going to call myself an expert at public assistance, but I’m a bit more knowledgeable than most. I volunteer at a local food bank and since I’m no longer able to help with the more physical part of the job, I’ve sort of become an “assistance assistant.” Basically, I help people find and apply for various types of assistance from any source, government or private charity.

    I have never personally encountered this, but based on my understanding from reading the application, they can still apply for public assistance even if all the children so not have paperwork. They must list everyone living in the household, but the children without paperwork cannot receive assistance. No medicaid for that child(ren) and the family wouldn’t receive food stamps amount for the people with SSNs. The only exception is for newborns.

    Also, in my state at least, you are not required to send a copy of the SSN or birth certificate for children. On the online form, you click a box saying you certify that all the information for the kids is true and that you’ll go to jail if you’re lying.

    As for financial records, sometimes my state will approve with out you sending them any proof. Sometimes they can confirm on their own (like with SS Disability), but other times they don’t even check or demand proof. I was helping a woman apply and she had all her supporting documents except he husband’s pay stubs. I had her upload what she had while she worked on getting the pay stubs. Four days later, she was notified that they were approved for food stamps and her kids got medicaid. No proof of income. When they renewed, they were approved without proving their income. This wasn’t an income that could be easily confirmed by the agency either.

    A lot of people don’t want to apply, but most eventually do…once they hit a certain low point. Everyone’s low point is different. Usually it’s a medical emergency, unexpected loss of income, or savings starting to run low.

    It’s horrible, but we need to let the Nauglers hit that low so the parents will get the wake up call they need. I’d really hoped this horrific event would do it, but I knew it wouldn’t. No more donations (except food). I hate, hate, HATE saying this, but we need to let the parents crash and burn. Either they’ll wake up and fix their situation or CPS will finally do its job.

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  31. We didn’t apply. We chose voluntary aid over coerced. If people help even a little that’s helps. It’s our moral decision, people can degrade us for it, but we know we did the right thing.

    So if you don’t pay your bill the hospital eats the cost. As a consequence costs go up. So if I have insurance my premiums go up because my carrier has to cover the increase. If I don’t have insurance or if I pay a portion I pay more out of my pocket when I go to the hospital… but in the Naugler’s world this is ‘voluntary aid’ Oddly enough this seems just like coerced to me.

    But then according to Nicole we are all ‘idiots’ that don’t understand insurance.

    The ‘right’ thing is paying your debts.

    I don’t know why I follow this train wreck other than that I’m a recovering fundamentalist and I’m very interested in rhetorical communication and find it fascinating how things play out in an online world. In this case crowd prediction turned out to be tragically correct. For the sake of that poor baby and all those kids I wish that everyone’s predictions had been wrong.

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  32. It’s probably my area. My sister was in the ICU for 24 hours after her last baby. Her bill, with 6 transfusions, was over $200,000. Thankfully she had insurance, that covered most of it. Transfusions aren’t cheap, again it might be my area (Northern Va), they are close to $5000 per unit.
    Regardless, it’s incredibly foolish to not utilize the system. When you consider the open case, the Q incident, and on top of everything else. Their grief has the great potential to be compounded by this utter nonsense on the part of the parents.

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  33. @KatataFish: And that’s why, although I am all for homebirth as a freely available option, I am dead set against homebirth without prenatal care. My midwife gave me a thorough education in prenatal testing, did every test she could herself, and sent me to an OB practice for the rest. If something’s going to go wrong, you want to know before it becomes an emergent situation so that you can go to the OB, whose job is (supposed to be) dealing with births that go wrong.

    As it happens, I had three relatively trouble-free homebirths. But I also knew ahead of time that I did not have vitamin deficiencies, anemia, or a calcified placenta–because I had professional prenatal care!

    But William could have been lost with the best care in the world. What concerns me more right now is that his parents are apparently just going on with life as usual: grifting, refusing to pay for services, yelling at people online, and making their kids do hard things with no help while Joe sits on his useless butt.

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  34. I’ve had two hospital bills when I was uninsured. One was 22 years ago when I was a young married woman. I had a miscarriage. The bills wasn’t much. It was under $2000. It took about a 5 years to pay off. We paid a little at a time. The other we are still paying for. It was 8 years ago for a stay in a state mental health facility. This was prior to me being able to get insurance. I’m still paying that one off. Slowly but surely. Thanks to the ACA I have insurance. Hopefully I’ll never have another bill that takes nearly a decade to pay off.

    Somehow I can’t see Joe and Nicole sitting down and writing a check out every month for a decade to pay off a bill. And I truly doubt a penny of what they earn of their go fraud me will go to the hospital. Joe hasn’t even bothered to pay the outstanding bill for his firstborn’s support, he isn’t going to give a crap about stiffing some statist hospital.

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  35. Joseph E. Naugler
    Insurance will be covering most of it however not all of it, as it is with insurance… and the doctors made it clear just how expensive it was to save Nicole’s life…

    Joe just said this on Nicole’s thread in NCN about health insurance. So do they have insurance or not? Those two jokers need to get their story straight.

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  36. Joe says they do have insurance.

    Insurance will be covering most of it however not all of it, as it is with insurance… and the doctors made it clear just how expensive it was to save Nicole’s life…

    They also made it abundantly clear, as I have explain, that due to Nicole’s health with no abnormalities of pain or discomfort, and the health and development of William that there was no way of catching this. As well as stating that William looked to have passed that morning and that we did all anyone could have done by going directly to the hospital.

    Even if Nicole had checkups every day this would have still happened!

    It happened abruptly with no warning signs… which in fact does happen.

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  37. The Nauglers are a shining example of why the good ‘ole days left a lot to be desired. Babies died in childbirth. Mothers died in childbirth. Parents had a lot of kids because some of those kids died young and men would marry over and over because their wives died from childbirth, disease or being worn out young. Really the life expectancy wasn’t too dang high then. But darn, the Nauglers want to live as they want which means they live like they’re poor in a third world country. Add to that internet attention addiction and weed addiction and paralyzing fear of work and a propensity to treat everyone they come into contact with in the worst ways they can come up with then you have the quintessential Naugler experience. Throw in some stalking to keep it authentic.

    Nicole loves to say that home birth is safer than one in the hospital. She would be correct if we were talking about medical care pre Louis Pasteur and understanding what germs were. Why was it safer at home than in a hospital? At least in Vienna Austria it was because doctors would autopsy a dead mother and then, without cleaning up at all, go deliver another kid. That scenario sounds more like the normal Naugler delivery room than any modern hospital even in a third world country.

    If the Nauglers had taken some reasonable actions to ensure the health of both the mother and the baby and the baby was still stillborn I might have some sympathy. Instead Joe sat on his high and overly ample butt and yelled at his children and prophesied. Nicole took people to court frivolously with a disorganized passle of ‘documentation’ and was gently told by the judge that Nicole had no idea what she was doing. Nicole, after being counseled that she didn’t look too good and needed medical attention decided to avoid medical attention. They have a dead child, huge medical bills, and they do not like want Medicaid or insurance or anything remotely responsible because responsibility goes against their morals and principles. Instead they want everyone else to give them money and lots of it so that Joe can sit on his ample and high butt all day yelling at the kids and prophesying while his wife and kids earn money for his weed. And Nicole thinks this is perfectly right. After all, she is never wrong even when she doxxes and harasses other people and mocks others’ deceased children. Joe and Nicole deserve each other. The kids don’t deserve either of them.

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  38. I do believe they chose not to apply for aid. They are both that stupid and selfish.
    Their credit is already crap so they don’t care about more unpaid bills.

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  39. Sally, I’m not sure where to put this. But it is an observation on the nauglers newest gfm.

    On there own post sharing the new gfm a “leg jumper” posted a screen shot of her donation and the amount $1. Another woman commented that she did the same. But if you go to the gfm these donations are not listed. I just found it rather odd.

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  40. sharon: “I can’t believe all you people on here can be so cruel to a family who just lost their child. Just because people choose to live differently than the SO CALLED normal lives like everyone else doesn’t mean that they are wrong. Why can’t everyone just leave them alone and tend to your own nosy lives???????
    ————————
    dear sharon for every action is a reaction

    if Nauglers did not expose them selves , if they did not used photo of their dead baby to start gofundme and did not asked people of some hard cash,
    then for sure we all would be very quiet .
    Acording to NN words they have funds ,
    according to NN her son Jacob just bought the house,
    so WHY??? begging for cash???
    Why they could not ask Capistan for some extra LOAN?

    And who is more cruel here?
    Joe aka lazy husband who parasite on his wife and his children hard work or
    me voicing my opinion?
    Child labor is wrong in any civilized society and
    since prophet Joe decided to go viral, all world were watching how stupids Americans could be. And still were watching.
    —————-

    https://www.change.org/p/bradley-butler-stop-the-kentucky-land-company-of-irvington-from-illegal-discrimination?source_location=minibar

    NN :” We have decided to stay, put the money we had budgeted on a larger land payment back into the homestead. We are finishing out a few larger projects, including a bigger cabin and in August we will begin using those funds to pay the land off early. That’s the plan.

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  41. No, we are still over there clutching our pearls and being holier than thou.

    Well, I laughed. 🙂

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  42. So I find it highly suspect that the doctors told her there was nothing that could have been done.

    I do too. My question would be this. Nothing could be done starting when? If she’s saying that nothing could have been done starting with the situation as it existed at 11 pm on Thursday night, then she might be right. But what about we wind the clock back to July 4?

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  43. OT… Nicole said they were walling off a bathroom with a tub and compost toilet. Here we go again. They aren’t going to invest in a real composting toilet. Nicole’s idea of a compost toilet is a white bucket that they dump on their property when full. I guess with Jacob out of the house hauling the bucket of shit is going to fall to the next oldest male of the household (who also happens to be the primary cook…ick) because if Joe wouldn’t haul it last time, he’s not going to start this time. I can see them getting rid of the port-a-potty when they have their bathroom finished inside. No need for an “outhouse” which were never even outhouses to begin with. They can do their business inside (gag) thinking nobody would be the wiser.

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  44. Directly after a parent loses a baby, the hospital staff will definitely couch the notion that it could have been prevented. If Nicole had proper medial care in place, it is a subject that would come up down the line in case of (please gods forbid) another pregnancy.

    Also I have a question. How is it not “coercion” to stiff the hospital of payment forcing them to have done all the work for free and have to fight using collection agents etc. in hopes of receiving reimbursement for services rendered?
    I am fortunate enough to live in Canada. What kind of complete asshole would I be to refuse the universal healthcare afforded to me only to turn around and not pay at all?!

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  45. They always use a passive voice when bad things happen. It always happens ‘to’ them, it’s never a result of their own actions.

    Even a screenshot of a post from 2014 and featured in “Hey Mac, can you spare a dime” has things just happening out of the blue. “The big blue van died. It hit a slick spot and went off the road…” Surely someone was driving it at the time. The big blue van doesn’t just take off on its own and wind up with front end damage without some assistance from a careless driver.

    This time, no one could have predicted that Nicole’s pregnancy could possibly lead to a deadly outcome only of course, pretty much everyone did. People urging her to be checked out by an ob/gyn were told that after many pregnancies, her body knows best. That cost her son, dearly.

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  46. Nicole said they were walling off a bathroom with a tub and compost toilet.

    I noticed. And I will keep noticing. And I will keep informing the health department if I have to. They’ve already been in court for this and they can be dragged back in if necessary.

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  47. Eloi: Joe says they do have insurance.

    No, he doesn’t. He says insurance doesn’t cover it all. It’s their usual passive way of lying by vaguely implying they have insurance but not outright saying they do. Because they don’t.

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  48. The bolding in the articles is my own addition.

    J Matern Fetal Neonatal Med. 2010 Oct;23(10):1211-7. doi: 10.3109/14767051003615459.
    Obstetric complications in grand and great grand multiparous women.
    Shechter Y1, Levy A, Wiznitzer A, Zlotnik A, Sheiner E.
    Author information
    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE:

    To investigate pregnancy and labour outcomes in grand and great grand multiparous women.
    STUDY DESIGN:

    A retrospective population-based study was conducted between the years 1988 and 2007. Parturients were classified into three groups: multiparous; 2-5 deliveries, grand multiparous; 6-9 deliveries, and great grand multiparous; 10+ deliveries. Stratified analyses included multiple logistic regression models.
    RESULTS:

    A significant linear association was found between parity and adverse maternal and perinatal outcomes such as malpresentation, labour dystocia, caesarean delivery, postpartum haemorrhage, maternal anaemia (HB<10), congenital malformations and perinatal mortality. Using multivariable logistic regression models, grand multiparity was found an independent risk factor for labour dystocia, first stage (OR=1.5, P<0.001), and perinatal mortality (OR=2.0, P<0.001). Great grand multiparity was found an independent risk factor for labour dystocia, first stage (OR=2.6, P<0.001), labour dystocia, second stage (OR=2.1, P<0.001), and perinatal mortality (OR=2.5, P<0.001).
    CONCLUSION:

    Women with high birth order are at increased risk for adverse obstetric outcomes. The risk is higher for great grand multiparous women compared to grand multiparous women. Grand and great grand multiparity are independent risk factors for labour dystocia and perinatal mortality.

    This one may apply to Nicole better seeing as how she’s trying to recreate the circumstances of poor medical accessibility in developing countries.

    J Obstet Gynaecol. 2011 Jul;31(5):404-8. doi: 10.3109/01443615.2011.561383.
    Pregnancy outcome among grand multiparous women at the University of Maiduguri Teaching Hospital: a case control study.
    Geidam AD1, Audu BM, Oummate Z.
    Author information
    Abstract

    Grand multiparity has been described as an independent risk factor for a variety of obstetric complications, especially in developing countries with inadequate health facilities. This case control study compares the pregnancy outcomes of grand multiparas with that of multiparas at the University of Maiduguri Teaching Hospital over a period of 1 year. The labour ward records and patients’ case notes were used to extract information. Multivariate analysis created a model of the adverse factors that were independently associated with grand multiparity after control for confounding effects of age and other variables. During the period of study, there were 1,865 deliveries, out of which 350 were grandmultiparas, a rate of 18.8%. Out of the 350 grandmultiparas, 91 were excluded, leaving 259 (74%) patients which were used for the study. The multivariate analysis shows that compared with the multiparas, the grand multiparas were more likely to be uneducated, have abruptio placentae, precipitate labour and stillbirth but were less likely to have prolonged labour, episiotomy, placenta praevia, require operative deliveries or be anaemic at booking. Grandmultiparity was found to be associated with adverse pregnancy outcome. This finding has implications for practitioners caring for these women in our environment.

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  49. Up till this point we had been 100% responsible for ALL of our medical needs…

    No, Joe. “Up till this point” you have just been choosing not to pursue appropriate medical care because you don’t want to pay for it, and because you think you are qualified to suture wounds in your shed.

    Plus there are other expenses involved such as travel and such…

    You drove 20 minutes in the van to get to the hospital. It’s not like she needed to be air-lifted. And what other “and such” could you possibly have had to pay for? Babysitters? Hotel stays? For a man who refers to his GFM target of $10,000 as “measly,” you certainly can’t seem to explain why you need the public to hand you more money.

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  50. Um, dumb question here. If Joe is saying they have insurance and the kids made the coffin for W and did the heavy lifting for the funeral, please can someone rationally tell me what the gofraudme is for?

    The Nauglers were pretty clear that they needed to cyberbeg to pay for at least part of the hospital bill and compensate them while Nicole wasn’t working. But now they have insurance????

    Do the Naugler idiots realize that lying has long since stopped being very helpful to them? Jeez

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  51. “Measly $10000” Really Joe? Your wife has bragged about your family living on $30k/year and now 1/3 of your family’s annual income is “measly.” If that’s not much, guess all those $10, $20, $50 donations supporters are pretty much nothing, so why should anyone bother donating?

    Insurance won’t cover it all? Or you don’t have insurance and won’t apply for medicare? Which is it? Joe and N. need to get their stories straight, and sound a bit more grateful, for this current round of grifting to work out profitably.

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  52. No fucking way they have health insurance, She may hve some kind of insurance on the business but I doubt that also, I cant imagine those two sitting around writing out checks for anything, Deadbeats

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  53. What happened July 4th.

    Nothing. But the baby was still alive then. Hypothetical.

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  54. I’ve been thinking a bit about this. Joe wouldn’t actually have to go out and get a job. If he just opened the shop for self service pet washing, and retail sales he might just bring in enough to make a dent in their expenses. Unless of course the self wash is a money pit.

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  55. If Nicole came in in such horrible shape, then how can the hospital staff expound on her excellent physical condition? They keep saying that since she was in such great shape, she had no pain, there was no warning, etc, then there was nothing that could be done, but that just doesn’t ring true to me. There’s no way for them to know what sort of shape she was in prior to her arrival to the hospital basically in a complete crisis.

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  56. “Measly $10000”

    Hey! I know! Let’s do some math!

    Joe gets a job that pays $7.25/hr. Works 40 hours per week (I can hear the peals of laughter from here. Shh. Stop that. Pay attention!) and nets 76% of his gross. That is $220.40/week. Multiplied by 51 weeks (allowing for a few sick days) is $11,240.40.

    Voila! Even more than a “measly” $10,000. Now go on Joe, if that money is measly when it’s given to you, is it still measly when you EARN IT?

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  57. If Nicole came in in such horrible shape, then how can the hospital staff expound on her excellent physical condition? They keep saying that since she was in such great shape, she had no pain, there was no warning, etc, then there was nothing that could be done, but that just doesn’t ring true to me.

    Because of HIPPA, there is no way we can know the truth. All we have is the word of two pathological liars. You are correct. There are many point of this story that don’t ring true. Her health being one of them. If I hazard to guess, she isn’t healthy at all. She had voiced symptoms that any OBGYN would have been worried about. Memory loss, lack of focus, headaches and on Father’s Day decreased fetal movement.

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  58. Shouldn’t CPS intervene again? I think she said she thought she was about 42 weeks, in which case she would have been getting daily non stress tests after 39 or 40 weeks and the doctor would know if he needed to deliver the baby immediately. If she has another pregnancy CPS should require her to have prenatal care. In view of her age, the number of pregnancies and her recent debacle, she and future babies would be at extremely high risk. I am so sorry that this poor baby had to suffer because of their neglect of the basics of human life. He was absolutely beautiful.

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