John Bad Elk

nicolepostjbeThis post of Nicole’s is disturbing.  It’s also about a court case. I think I’ve mentioned this before, but I sort of dig reading court cases. I find it all very interesting to see how judges think and reason.

But Nicole doesn’t stop with just this, informing us that it’s “legal” to resist arrest by killing the arresting officer, she goes further.

shootcopShe puts a silly little disclaimer up about how this will be spun.  However, I’m not spinning a thing.

Here’s a link to the video she cites.  I am not going to embed it. It’s by that god-damned idiot, Larken Rose, and I don’t want to encourage him.

And it doesn’t matter one bit what the video says or doesn’t say. Nicole is clearly, quite clearly, exploring the idea of resisting arrest by actually shooting and killing the arresting officer.

She needs to rethink it all.

The first case cited is called Plummer v. State. The quote attributed to Plummer is:

Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer’s life if necessary.

There’s a wee problem.  Plummer doesn’t say that.

Here’s the story.

In 1892, Mr. Plummer had some trees. The city where he lived wanted him to trim the trees. Mr. Plummer didn’t want to trim the trees (“muh rights”) and he left his house one day, revolver in his hand, and went looking for the town council members saying he was going to shoot them.

The marshall, named Dorn, attempted to confront Plummer.  Plummer told him he was going to kill him. Dorn then hid behind a tree and came up behind Plummer and hit him on the head (I kid you not. Court cases are interesting, I tell you). A brief exchange of gunfire ensued and both men were hit. Only Dorn died.

The issue here was essentially self-defense. Dorn didn’t tell Plummer he was under arrest. He just hit him over the head and then shot at him.

plummerquote
click image for link

This is not about “wrongful arrest.”

A police officer can come to your house and arrest you wrongfully, but if he does so without using unreasonable force, you cannot lawfully resist him.

The other, later case was called John Bad Elk v. the United States.  Here’s what happened.

On March 8, 1899, John Bad Elk fired a gun outside at the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, where he resided. This was considered a misdemeanor. A policeman came and spoke with him, and asked him to come around to the station “in a little while” and they would “talk about it.”

Bad Elk didn’t show up. More police visited. Bad Elk still didn’t show up. This back and forth went on and after several days, some policemen went to arrest him, without a warrant. But the original policeman did not go to make the arrest. Another guy did, named, ironically, John Kills Back.

Bad Elk just pretty much shot and killed Kills Back, who was armed, when he showed up.  Bad Elk was tried, convicted of murder and sentenced to hang.

The SCOTUS overturned the conviction on appeal, arguing that there was no proper reason for arresting the man in the first place, and that the worst he could be convicted of was manslaughter.  Here’s what they said:

At common law, if a party resisted arrest by an officer without warrant and who had no right to arrest him, and if in the course of that resistance the officer was killed, the offense of the party resisting arrest would be reduced from what would have been murder if the officer had had the right to arrest, to manslaughter. What would be murder if the officer had the right to arrest might be reduced to manslaughter by the very fact that he had no such right.

What they are citing is “common law.”  Common law (as opposed to “statutory law”) is law that develops, not by writing and passing a law in the legislature, but that develops as a result of decades, and even centuries, of court cases decided.  It’s unwritten.

A court hears a case, say,  Dred Scott v. Sandford. During the case, and in the decision, some principle comes into discussion, and the court makes a ruling which becomes the benchmark from which all similar cases are decided.  No law gets passed.

Examples that we’re all familiar with are cases like Roe v. Wade and Obergefell v. Hodges.

I’ll write more about this later on, but I was involved in a case something like this once, regarding North Carolina’s private school laws.

A great deal, maybe most, of America’s legal system originates in common law, but there is a very swift and very real way around it. In the case of Dred Scott, we fought an entire Civil War over it and then amended the Constitution and that ended that.

Nobody cites Dred Scott as viable law anymore.

Something very similar is true of Bad Elk v. the United States. When you don’t like the precedent that a court ruling has established, you can pretty much wipe it out in one fell swoop.  Just get a law passed that says the opposite, and make sure it’s defensible before the US Supreme Court. Or alternatively, as with Bad Elk, you can pass laws in various state legislatures and pretty much nullify it bit by bit. (This is, in fact, what the right-wing has been doing slowly to Roe for decades.)

Law actually varies from state to state, so if you think you’re gonna be okay resisting arrest by shooting a policeman, you better check and see which state you’re in, but largely, you pretty much need to submit to arrest regardless and then sue the hell out of the guy and whoever else is involved later. It’s nice if you have a case in the first place, of course, and you’re not just a whack-job yelling “‘Murica! Muh rights! The 4th Amendment!”

It’s a much safer way to go about the whole thing anyway.

When I first saw this, it reminded me immediately of Ruby Ridge. After the debacle at Ruby Ridge, Randy Weaver filed suit against the government, and won a settlement, as did his surviving children.  I’m sure that made them all very happy, but it did not do a single thing for his wife and son who were killed, or for the US agent who was killed there.

Randy Weaver may have been “right,” but he was beyond stupid.  Without looking it up, do you even know what Ruby Ridge was actually about?  What great principle did Vicki Weaver die to uphold?  What changed as a result, beyond federal law enforcement becoming a little more savvy about how to deal with lunatics?

The same thing goes for Waco and the Branch Davidians.  What great principle did they die for? What great freedom were they being deprived of?

Another thing involved here is that the person who is being wrongly arrested is generally making a decision about the legality of the actions of the arresting officer without really knowing shit about what they are talking about.  For a good example, simply go read the transcripts of Nicole’s various encounters with Sheriff Pate. She cites law to him as though she’s a lawyer, when she absolutely hasn’t a clue. You can’t get an attorney to take your wrongful arrest lawsuit case if you weren’t arrested wrongfully in the first place.

Nicole, this is a very bad, very dangerous path. Don’t walk down it.

 

 

49 thoughts on “John Bad Elk”

  1. You would think, with your son having a felony charge and potentially facing 10 years in prison, she wouldn’t do these things. One or more of the children are going to end up in a stand off with police and someone will die. It is inevitable at this point. Q could have very well killed Mr. Sneed that day. The “homestead” is just a bomb waiting to go off. Everyone sees it but no one can stop it.

  2. Nicole has always posted her dangerous and rediculous points of view but lately she has stepped it up a notch.
    The Sheriff’s office needs to be made aware of these latest posts IMHO.
    I realize they are very aware of the Nauglers position pertaining to the law but these latest posts say a lot about her frame of mind.
    These statements of hers may very well pertain to her son. What is she willing to do?
    Scary stuff.

  3. This is a hot mess. She has no idea just how dangerous this path is. Especially in today’s world.

  4. And doesn’t the fact that she’s discussing this behavior imply premeditation if a shooting does occur? It seems that she thinks she may be arrested for something, or have some kind of dispute with LE and she’s planning ahead.

  5. She is losing her crackers. She knows CPS watches her internet activity. She knows Law Enforcement does. She knows “the trolls” do too.

    She posts these things to be inflammatory.

    Takes a pretty piss poor mother to throw gasoline on a fire she set while her children are in the burn zone.

  6. They need to be added to the US terror watch list…I’m not kidding. PS anyone know why the cops were at the Salon last night?

  7. I don’t think she will. I really think they make absolutely all decisions solely on what will require the least amount of effort on their part. Plain an simply, resisting arrest is too much work. So is hiring an attorney to argue defense. It requires the least effort to whine and cry and get all amped up but ultimately do what the officers say. And then post memes. Lots and lots of memes.

    The real danger lies in what they are teaching their kids with their rantings and postings.

  8. Yeah, fact checking isn’t one of Nicole’s strong suits. She often posts stuff that is evidently false on her personal page.
    But that’s just how the site she copies that stuff from get their fans: they post outrageous stuff that people will want to share because it is just so OUTRAGEOUS that they need to tell the world about it. And they never fact check.
    After having shared those things people like Nicole then, of course, start to defend them because they don’t want to be seen as the gullible people they are who spread lies without fact checking.
    Nicole is just a statist in the play of these sites.

    Also she can’t make up her mind which opinion she should copy, or she doesn’t realize that she copies opposing view points.
    According to Nicole (or the pages she copied that stuff from) on the 1st of February US protesters were stupid because they should use their time to help feed and build houses for the homeless to create a better world instead of protesting.
    On the 6th of February Romanian protesters were good because they were protesting against corruption instead of watching the Super Bowl.

    Nicole went to neither protest, not in the US nor in Romania.
    She also didn’t feed or build houses for the homeless.
    But of course she is oh so much better than the protesters and Super Bowl watchers in the US.
    Sure.

    She’s a bleating sheep enabling sites to spread “alternative facts”.

  9. Very good blog. Nicole’s tenuous grip on reality is slipping more and more each day. She is anti-everything, but has zero understanding why. They are indeed heading to a Ruby Ridge type incident and of course Nicole and Joe will be 100% responsible. However, CPS will also have their feet held to the fire about why they didn’t do more to protect those children.

  10. Personally I think she is just setting the stage to cry police bias when Joe goes to court in Hardin County. We’ve seen it before with the Sheriff in Breckinridge. “So you’ve been ‘stalking’ aka reading my public social media pages? You’re biased because you think I’m against law enforcement.” Same Blessed bullshit in a different county on a different day.

    It’s the children who do not understand the nuances of Nicole’s attempts at gaming the system who I worry about.

  11. WOW, what a STUPID thing to publicly post when your kid has felony charges for threatening a neighbor with a gun over an argument.

    Nicole, do you realize you just made that story about 3000 times more believable? You talked in another post about teaching your kids this crap.

    God, you’re stupid. Stupid beyond reason. Reckless stupid.

    You just made your CPS case worse, too.

    You really don’t learn, do you?

    Poor fucking kids are going to end up split up and grieving…and I feel so sorry for them. I don’t have one ounce of pity for their parents.

    This is unbelievable.

  12. With everything going on in the news if violence, rioting and new laws…… it is not logical or legal
    For Nicole to voice such preposterous stuff! This could easily be perceived as premeditated myrder against a law enforcement official. They need to be forwarded! Nicole is treading on unsteady ground and with Q’s case pending she’s a walking time bomb! Law enforcement in that area should proceed with caution with in regards to anything involving the Nauglers! Desperate people do desperate things and the Naugler’s are definitely desperate!

  13. Evelyn,
    I agree completely agree with you. Sadly I see them using the kids as human shields. This is about to blow up bad!!!

  14. Ummm yeah, because dumb@sses that tested the open carry laws in Dearborne by walking into a police station wearing a black face mask & tactical gear with a loaded rifle across their chest and pistol on their hip really proved their point (hint: they were thoroughly denounced by the president of the state’s open-carry advocacy group). The media and everyone else have praised the police for how much restraint the officers showed in that situation, how frightened the civilians present were and the danger they were put in during the situation.

    And now, because I got such excellent advice for my son’s bday cake, I used the corn starch that looked like vaseline for the meringue and it turned out great!, I need advice on goat feed!! I bought 3 goats, billy/nanny/3 mo buckling. The older 2 are pygmies and the baby is a Nigerian dwarf. They are currently hanging out in the fenced in section of my immediate backyard until taxes come in and we can buy some cattle/goat panels to pen them in the areas where I need them to clear brush & poison ivy. In the meantime, what sort of feed would you recommend? I have hay and some sweetfeed, but am getting dizzy with all the other options. I remember reading the differences during the horse discussions. The doe seems a bit on the skinny side compared to the boys, so I’d like to get some weight on her.

  15. Please tell me she isn’t this stupid? I try to not go to her page because of her spin of the world around her raises my blood pressure, what is the response from her followers after a fucked up post like this

  16. With everything going on in the news if violence, rioting and new laws…… it is not logical or legal
    For Nicole to voice such preposterous stuff! This could easily be perceived as premeditated myrder against a law enforcement official.

    No, it couldn’t. That’s a huge stretch. However, if I were a LEO, I would definitely proceed with caution.

  17. Her life is miserable. She lives in squalor and only uses those children to work because she is lazy. She loves a photo opp with the kids but otherwise they are useless to her. Now don’t get me wrong, she wants them like I want the 20 pairs of flip flops for summer & end up wearing three or four pairs. She must spend all her time hunting for negative shit to post because she’s an attention whore.
    Nicole, misery loves company, you are a freak & we see you & know it. Nicole, stop what you are doing before you get your ass shot off that imaginary pedestal you try to sit on. Nicole, go to the dentist & get your mouth cleaned up & for fucks sake get to a Dr. I know you read every word of this so get yourself some medical attention, SEE that’s attention TOO!

  18. There are at least five (maybe more. I don’t keep track of the kids age) kids living there that are capable of picking up a gun and firing it at someone. And seeds of information are very easy to plant in a young and sheltered mind. I’m not sure what the hell CPS is thinking by not addressing the potential for violent conflict. This could again be part of the adults long game to become the ultimate victims. Scary, indeed.

  19. *facepalm*

    For all the bitching about her rights, she keeps forgetting her right to remain silent. She personally may not be under arrest or charged, but when your family has so much legal trouble you keep your mouth shut. If the police aren’t biased, they will be if you keep spouting stuff that makes them think you’re going to cause trouble.

    Running your mouth when you’re panicked in the moment (as heard in her recordings) is one thing. It’s understandable to have diarrhea of the mouth when you’re panicked, even if it’s dumb. It’s a whole other level of stupid to spout it online for all to see from the “safety” of your home or work.

    Back to Nicole’s health…I think she avoids taking care of it because it takes work. Ignoring the visits and tests, I spend hours on the phone each week dealing with SOMETHING. I have decent insurance, but they can be extremely stupid sometimes. Getting my doctors to work together is like herding cats. It’s lots of work to keep my care going smoothly. That’s not even taking into account how much time I spend dealing with my kids’ and my husband’s medical care, too. I literally spent 3 hours on the phone with doctors’ offices today. I don’t think either parent would put in that effort.

    As for applying for medicaid, they require A LOT of verification. They want SSNs for everybody in the family, confirmable proof of income and expenses, and you may have to check in with the local WorkForce/One Stop office. I had my oldest on Medicaid for Pregnant Women. For me, the paperwork was easy. I just had to send them copies of mine and my husband’s ID and SS cards, my husband’s pay stubs for the past month, a copy of my lease, and copies of my utility bills. The One Stop had my doctor fill out a paper saying I was stuck on bed rest. That was it and everything, even non-pregnancy related, was covered. Sadly, they didn’t have dental back then. It was an annoying bit of work since they hadn’t gone digital yet so I had to drive 20 miles to physically drop everything off, but so worth it.

  20. Forgot to add…my state’s medicaid, TANF, and SNAP is completely digital now. When we had to go on food stamps 2 years ago, I did everything from home. The application, uploaded all the documents requested, and received my notices all through the state’s website. They called me for a phone interview to confirm my info.

    In my state to get Medicaid for Pregnant Women, she just has to pee on a stick at the Health Department and finish the application and verification online. And they retroactively pay medical bills from 3 months before the approval.

    It’s so damn easy if she just had the paperwork they want.

  21. Joe capitulates fairly predictably whenever he is faced with an immediate action to consequence loss of his freedom (aka he’ll plea bargain and turn his kids over). He has real trouble with longer term action to consequence matters such as keeping is livestock on his property. He harasses people he think won’t fight back and whines about those who do. Nicole is the one who will go bat crap crazy on law enforcement. Joe and Nicole are the stupidest idiots I have ever set eyes on (and that beats out a lot of idiots I’ve encountered in my life) but they think they are really smart. I don’t think for a minute that either one has the brains of a gnat but I do think every one of their actions has some purpose, however idiotic. They may be trying to intimidate their neighbors some more. They may be trying to intimidate law enforcement. If some sort of martyrdom going out in a blaze of glory is planned I could see Nicole and any of her angrier kids getting stupid like that. But Joe will probably not participate except to get his family worked up. As soon as anything would start he would be too busy waddling, as opposed to running, down the road to save himself.

  22. Hey nic! #unschoolingopportunity #largefamilylife #11kidsandcounting #myblessedrealityshow #OMGyou’reanidiot #blessedlittlehomestead

  23. N will sacrifice her own children on the altar of her rights. Too bad she doesn’t give a damn about what is best for her children.

  24. It’s funny she doesn’t post this on the BLH page, she knows exactly what’s she’s doing. I wish someone would link it to the BLH page. I noticed she is getting fewer comments and likes each day.

  25. “I have hay and some sweetfeed, but am getting dizzy with all the other options. I remember reading the differences during the horse discussions. The doe seems a bit on the skinny side compared to the boys, so I’d like to get some weight on her.”

    Remember that goats need a higher copper concentration than horses. In fact, never feed horses goat feed – it can mess them up badly (even kill them). Providing sufficient water is important of course.

    Goats need between 15% – 18% protein and it’s easiest to get a commercial feed. Southern States sells a goat supplement in a 125 lb tub. You can contact the local agriculture extension agent for more information and recommendations. Most counties have one. You want to give them high quality hay – they don’t really like sticky stemmy crappy hay and it won’t provide as much nutrition as they truly need.

    https://www.southernstates.com/catalog/p-9480-southern-states-goat-forage-supplement-tub-125-lb.aspx When it’s all gone, you can still use the tub for watering them.

    When in doubt, contact a 4H group, the county extension agent or call commercial feed manufacturers to discuss your goats’ needs.

  26. Her cop comment… zero zilch likes. If you link anything she will delete it.

    Or message it to her followers, but I don’t do that

  27. @Magenta just wanted to let you know I am 100% with you, they J and N are to lazy for a standoff, but the older kids I do worry about.

  28. Did y’all also see the article where she is slamming Sheriff Pate? The one about the murder suicide? Said that a local law officer had threatened that but just drove drunk instead. She was obviously baiting him.
    What the sheriff did was wrong all day & twice on Sunday. He owned up to it & I sincerely hope all is going well for him & his family.
    That’s the difference between him & the N’s. She goes on & on & on about her perceived slights & NEVER thinks she could ever be in the wrong. Her poor son who is facing those charges is being so harmed by all of this awful rhetoric. It is honestly heartbreaking…

  29. Little Miss Rebel without a cause is, as usual, not thinking ahead or critically, or somehow in her mind, posting this crap seems like a good idea to her.

    She is not only putting herself in danger with her “my rights” thinking, she is also putting her children & any law officer, judge, those who work in the courthouse, in danger. She is giving the impression that she needs to be handled with kid gloves or she will go off. She is basically leaving a trail of “warning” crumbs. Everything in her life is documented. The lawyers on both sides, can put out a time line of her life for the last six or more years. They would be able to show the spiral of her life unwinding. From living in a house to being homeless. All of her beliefs evolving through the years to the Nicole we see on line today through her own words, pictures, videos, blogs, vlogs, posts, sock / fake accounts & interactions with others on line. Not only her SM accounts, but all those other FB pages & blogs she has left comments on. It would be interesting to see it all laid out from beginning.

  30. ‘Randy Weaver may have been “right,” but he was beyond stupid. Without looking it up, do you even know what Ruby Ridge was actually about? What great principle did Vicki Weaver die to uphold? What changed as a result, beyond federal law enforcement becoming a little more savvy about how to deal with lunatics?

    The same thing goes for Waco and the Branch Davidians. What great principle did they die for? What great freedom were they being deprived of?’

    Yeah, this is exactly it.

    It makes me think of the Boomtown Rats’ song ‘I Don’t Like Mondays’ about one of the first school shootings in the US (I think, don’t quote me!).

    IMO these situations are caused by an unstable leader, a ‘lunatic’ (Nicole and/or Joe) , who for some reason is/are able to gather a following… and real world consequences ensue.

    There is no principle to fight for. The leader is an egomaniac and that is all that matters.

    I don’t think that Nicole or Joe would shoot a cop, they are way too chickenshit, but their kids… Who TF knows?

    Don’t lots of kids rebel against their parents? I sure did.

    I hope the N kids are able to do that. 😉

  31. I’ve noticed her posts, even the cutesy pictures of her younger children, don’t get as many comments as they used to. Maybe when some of the humpers heard about the gun menacing charge against the second eldest son, it shocked them and caused them to back away. Plus, how long can you say things like, “we’re planning to build this or that” or “we’re still learning how to homestead”, before people start wondering why you haven’t made a lick of progress in THREE YEARS? Only the most foolish actually believe these two dingbats will ever do more than talk. Actual progress to a goal takes effort, hard work, and educating yourself. I just explained why the Naugler parents don’t have squat to show for 3 years on that property.

  32. J & N takes things too far on social media. I say make an example of them and report to homeland security. They want to make themselves look big, bad & all knowing about the laws than how about having a chit chat with the real know-alls.

  33. She’s proving the case against the child for them. Calling the child their “enforcer”. Posting about when it’s okay to shoot a cop– especially since she has said, on tape, “You shoot me dead, but you won’t take my children!” and warning the two oldest that if they went with the officers they would be shot.

    Nicole won’t be happy until someone ends up dead.

  34. I LOVE that NO ONE has “liked” nor responded to this absolutely offensive post at this point. It’s been there all day and not even the leg humpers have dared to weigh in. When I think she cannot repulse me more, she just does!

  35. One day while she (grooming) a dog at her Salon,, while HH is widening his vocabulary by calling woman C**ts) at the Strip mall, one of his kids will hear a noise, grab a gun and let a round fly promply killing a person that happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. All this will be because of there repeated telling the kids, The cops wil shoot you if you dont comply thats what cops do, shoot people,

  36. Hey Nicole, do you think CPS isn’t watching? The police? They’re just preparing to deal with your bat shit crazy self. They’ll want this to go down as smoothly as possible. They’re waiting for the perfect time to go there and snatch away all your poor kids. While you and joe relax at the salon……While you’re at court for the millionth time…..While you’re enjoying McDonalds/Hardees……In fact, I’m not sure how it hasn’t taken place yet. They’re probably just waiting for more and more evidence of your insanity, which let’s be honest-there is plenty of that already.
    The world is watching you self destruct.
    Implode.
    Take everyone down to your miserable level of self respect.
    Being a total asshole.
    Get a grip!

  37. So, back when I was 23 and sporting a very perky body, I had a run in with the law. It was late at night and my friend wanted me to drive him over to pick up a little weed. I wasn’t a regular smoker of the herb, but some of my friends were and since he had drank a couple of beers and I had not, it just made sense for me to drive his butt to his person’s house to get the joints or bag or whatever. I waited in the car and the entire deal took like a minute. I needed a pepsi (back before I switched to diet coke), so we headed to the nearest Circle K. I looked in the rear view mirror and said, why is the cop following me and where are his lights? Then I said, I bet he thinks that I cannot see him…hahaha. Another block and another cop car pulled in behind cop car number 1, and I continued to follow the laws of the land and finally pulled into the Circle K. Before I could drop my keys into my purse, I swear about fifty cop cars came swarming and cops got out with big guns aiming at me and my car and my friend. BTW, I was ready to throw my friend under the bus, and would have had I not been shaking so damn much. One cop yelled get out of the car and put your hands up so we did. I was so afraid that one of the cops with the big guns would open fire and kill me over a dime bag of pot. Then he said I need you to walk this way and I did and he said no backwards and I walked backwards and then he said, no, walk backwards this way. By then, I was total confused…walk this way, walk backwards, WTF. Finally, another cop demonstrated. Apparently, you need to turn facing away from the cops and walk backwards with your hands in the air. It was all so confusing. The cop asked me did I know why they were arresting me and I said, arresting me? He then put my hands in cuffs and the cops started searching my car. They found my purse with nothing but keys and lipstick and a brush in it. They found a shit load of text books and my grade book and a backpack with extra gym clothes. In the trunk, they found a tire, a tool, and bike wheel. Finally, after radio calls and some detective coming on scene, I got the story. A woman driving a car just like mine had robbed a gun store and had also shot someone. They saw my car and a woman driving so they made a leap. They didn’t haul me down town nor were they rough with me. I was afraid but under the circumstances, I understood why they came at me with guns blazing and put me in handcuffs. Sometime during this total misunderstanding, I had started crying. When they took the handcuffs off and apologized to me, the cop who put me in handcuffs gave me tissue and walked with me into the store. He bought my Pepsi and when the cashier said, man I thought she was a goner. I just knew someone would drop a bottle and bullets would start flying to which the cop frowned and I cried again. Anyway, I could have taken an attitude and yelled at the cops but that’s not in my nature and mistakes happen. Hell, I’ve made a few myself. My point to dredging up this horrible experience is that according to some, I would have been in my right to protect myself. I was innocent; they pulled guns; they were ordering me around; and they terrified me. I actually dated the cop for a few months until I realized that while he was a good looking, we had nothing in common. He talked sports and guns and I talked literature and writing. As a couple, we were doomed. Our last date we fought over what movie to watch and it was a cop shoot up movie and I asked him if he knew why odd numbers of bad guys is a sign that something horrible is going to happen within the bad guy structure (one or two will kill the third). He asked, why do you always have to do that? I said, what? and he said, teach. I asked, why he always had to watch cops and robbers. That night, we kissed and said good bye. I heard he married another cop.

  38. @Xkentuckian
    I listened to the song. I’d never heard it. It gave me shivers because I read the story despite it being a catchy tune.

  39. Sorry for the length. I’ve been wanting to do a long ponder for a while, and today’s the day.

    But first:
    @jeannie: Wow – your post starts off so innocuously and then turns into a movie script full of suspense, action, and even romantic comedy! Although I wouldn’t trade places with you for the starring role – how frightening that must have been! I can’t even imagine it. So glad you weren’t injured and that the mistaken identity was cleared up fairly quickly.

    Now, what was I going to comment on when I came in here?…. Oh, yes, the Nicole cop-shooting posts.

    A lot of what I’m writing down is probably stuff most of us already know and/or assume, so I’m not really shedding light on anything.

    Still, ever since this saga began I never quite know how far down the rabbit hole Nicole and Joe are, and I sense that is one problem a lot of us have. Are they straight-up con artists, or at the mercy of their own delusions?

    Sally already addressed this in her Brainwashed post: http://www.blessedlittleblog.com/brainwashed/. I had meant to get some of what follows down then, but didn’t. I also didn’t want to seem like I was contracting her opinion, since that isn’t my intent; I agree Nicole does subscribe to her weird rhetoric, although I don’t have the first-hand experience that Sally uses so effectively to bolster her argument.

    No, I’m just an addicted, overly-fascinated spectator, as many of us are. As such, I’m constantly wondering who is conning whom. Most of us probably aren’t entirely sure. While it seems difficult to imagine that the Nauglers are both deceiving and deceived, are both, that is probably the truth of it.

    But holding that shaky ground requires that every damn thing Nicole and Joe do and post ends up being examined under the microscope. It feels manipulative, the way they blithely toss out photos, comments and links that seem designed to push buttons, by showing some flagrant disregard for any and all conventional wisdom. And yet we can’t turn away; we are held hostage by our emotional response, by our need to see those children not suffer the poor decisions of their parents.

    And so now we witness Nicole referencing, in a matter of days, her son facing a weapons charge, and posts about shooting an arresting officer. And just in case we haven’t reacted, she adds “What do you think?”

    The opinion I’ve carried for a long time – that Joe is the “dreamer” and Nicole the “doer” – has been bolstered by something I noticed about how the Larken Rose video was posted. It first appears as a reply; Joe leaves the link as a comment to a post on Nicole’s NCN page. Within the hour, Nicole has shared the video in a new post, adding the comment asking for opinions about it.

    Joe wants Nicole to see it; Nicole wants everyone to see it.

    We already have seen, over and over again, how Joe defines his only role on the Naugstead: He plants seeds, in the form of offspring. I think he plants his ideas in much the same way, again with Nicole as the vessel. This is just an opinion based on reading Nicole’s blogs past and present, but from them I get the sense that Joe was the first to embrace this whole anarcho-sovereign-crypto-voluntary-whatnot (had to include Nicole’s favorite catchall), and Joe is probably the one who first collected the online network of like-minded fringe folks.

    I think Nicole – at least at first – just went with it to make him happy, although it was perhaps unconscious rather than calculated. They mutually latched onto the homesteading off-grid dream because it fits both Joe’s survivalist-prepper-compound fantasy and Nicole’s theme of just-leave-me-in-the-woods-with-my-animals. And maybe a garden.

    One reason I see Joe as more entrenched in this whole “muh rights” philosophy is that Nicole, as the breadwinner, has been the one with at least a toe in the real world – she has the grounding force of a shop to run and clients to serve. As others have observed, she knows her shop has to present a certain image, and she’s willing and able to make it fit to the best of her ability. She’s hinted at her love of creature comforts often enough that it’s not hard to imagine that she likes her time at the shop with all its on-grid power and water and lack of mud – notice her reaction back at the homestead to the muddy dog jumping on her – and then contrast that with the unending stream of photos of her kids covered in mud and dirt.

    Meanwhile, without a clock to punch, Joe has all the time in the world to go on Internet tangents, especially since he regularly fobs off his child-supervising duties onto the older children. He’s the one with the “Thinker” icon and the long-winded posts. (Kind of like this one. I know all about unstructured time, believe me!)

    But we’ve seen over and over again how Joe backs down, whereas Nicole doubles down. The classic example is of course when the children are taken into custody. Nicole screams and gets arrested. Meanwhile, Joe shuffles his feet for a day before fully complying, although the kids get a bizarre and cruel indoctrination lecture as a lovely parting gift.

    So here’s an irony – of the two Naugler adults, Nicole is the one with the teeth.

    Which makes it hard to dismiss these latest posts. That video, by the way, is a paradox of incendiary images paired with the dullest, most soporific narration imaginable. It is utterly toxic to both soul and brain. I made it through about two minutes before I just. Couldn’t. Even. and clicked on out of there.

    Part of me still wonders if, like someone mentioned above, those posts are part of some weird “long game.” At times I’ve even wondered if they WANT CPS to take the kids and this is their way of absolving themselves of any blame – those evil statists targeted us because they don’t like their lifestyle, blah-blah-whatnot-blah. Send money for The Cause!

    But just as often I sense Nicole is just on a long path of radicalizing herself into a corner. And she won’t even know how she got there; she’ll just look up from her phone to find the world staring back at her, and she won’t recognize a soul.

  40. Just got home and had to post this…

    A zebra got loose from the wildlife rescue near my house. They had traffic stopped while they were trying to catch him. It was hilarious. The zebra finally gave up and let one of the animal rescue employees walk him to the horse trailer. Poor zebra was probably lonely and bored since I doubt they’re a lot of illegally kept zebras in the area. I know that place has excellent fencing, so the right gates must have been accidentally opened and the zebra took advantage.

    Back to the cop issue, I completely understand why a cop may approach me with his gun drawn. He doesn’t know me or if I’m carrying a weapon. As long as he holsters his weapon and doesn’t act like a dick once he can see the situation is safe, we’re cool. If he doesn’t, I file a complaint and/or sue. No need to be violent. I’d rather be the woman known for filing complaints than the woman who threatens violence.

  41. Thanks for the link m, that was really interesting. 🙂

    ‘Geldof read about the news later that day via Telex machine at the radio station of Georgia State University.’

    I didn’t know that. It surprises me that Bob Geldof got the idea for that song in Georgia, FFS, and so close to where I (now) live.

    Jeannie, what a great story. 🙂

    Until recently my husband and I drove a ‘classic’ car, a 1960 Mercury. We got pulled over once because the policeman said our car matched the description of a car that was involved in a crime nearby. I know of only one other person who has the same car in the same color from the same year and he lives 30 miles away.

    I puzzled over it until I realized the description was likely ‘an old white car’. 😉

  42. I think I learn a new thing or two each time there is a post here. Perhaps even more than two things. I had never heard of the Cleveland shootings, never heard that song, or even of that song, and zero knowledge of the cases comprising the central theme of the post. Can I say #unschooling or is that a douche move?
    (I still fail to understand hashtags)

  43. I noticed the BO aren’t getting the likes and comments they used too. I also am beginning to wonder, if they are trying to self sabatoge CPS. If the kids are removed, then Nicole can really put up a good sob story ( refer back to her video of Lisa in the court room). Kentucky child services should hang their heads in shame. The blood will be on their hands if anything happens to the kids,as well as the BO. God help #12.

  44. Hi Sally, I believe this blog is countering the goals of the Nauglers which is to Conn good people who are not really aware what’s going on , since now they have cancelled the “auction”. On the Blessed little homestead blog Joe and Nicole come across as a “living off grid homeschooling family” who is being unfairly harassed and stalked by crazy people. If you follow her personal page Nicole .c. Naugler, you see that she is a cop hater, which is very concerning to me. I have two daughters who are going into law enforcement , with people like this I fear for my girl’s safety. The problem I have with Joe and Nicole is the deceptive tactics they use on social media in order to get people to donate money, instead of earning it one dollar at a time like the rest of us have to do. How many people would have given them money if they knew about their beliefs. I wish someone could let the supporters on Blh page know about her personal page. I bet some would feel differently.

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