Joe’s Chain Reaction 2

JOE: I. . .no charges filed, no nothing. They spent eight weeks interrogating my kids. And, okay this is, go back. Thursday, they took the two olders Wednesday night, uh, uh, I dropped the other eight kids off Thursday morning and then we had to go to court Thursday afternoon, so I got Nicole out of jail, just before we went to court. And, uh, we show up and we’re sitting there, and so my lawyer’s like, well, what’s the situation, what’s, you know, what are our concerns, and so he just kind of, well, that’s not against the law, that’s not against the law, and what it broke down to was one of my Facebook pictures showed one of my kids walking on a dirt, on the dirt ground, and she’s like, well I’m just concerned that that’s your cabin floor. I said, well first of all, it’s not illegal in the state of Kentucky to have a dirt floor in your cabin. There are a lot of people in the Appalachian area that have dirt floors in their cabin.

And if that’s your issue, then my lawyer said well let’s put this off for 72 hours and have the Cabinet come down that Friday, that next morning, uh, and just inspect it. So, two workers and our lawyer met that Friday and she was like, oh, I see you’ve got an actual floor. She’s like, uh, and I told her we plan on building a bigger cabin, and I says, but she’s like, well, this cabin is fine, uh, I see how you opened it up with the warmer weather, um and she says, just before winter make sure you have the fourth wall up, yeah, that’s fine, we just took the fourth wall down to open it up into like a picnic area.

And she said everything was fine and as we were walking off, she can see where we had a little, uh, because the property we bought had a bunch of trailers on it that kind of were broken down, with furniture still in it, it was weird, but there was a lot to clean up, and we had a staging area where we had metal recycling and stuff. She’s like could you just fence in this area, that’ll just, no, not that there’s any laws but just for my concern and you know, for the children’s safety, and I says, that’s fine. Not a problem, I’ll just, I’ll fence in this area.

So, she’s like okay good. So we were planning on going back to court on Monday and everything was gonna be fine, they were gonna say everything’s fine and the kids are gonna be returned, but then, uh, my older son, from a previous engagement, um, showed up. (1) He just walks into this courtroom and gives the bizarrest testimony of sexual abuse and abuses. I hadn’t seen him. . .

HOST: Oh, no.

JOE: . . .since he was (unclear) old. Yes, I hadn’t seen this kid since he was 4 ½ years old and, the court documents from New Hampshire, because we were living in Texas at the time, we were expecting our third child, so we couldn’t, we had no money to go up and deal with the situation that was going on in New Hampshire.(2) So, but the situation in New Hampshire, there was no, no allegations of that at all. So he gives this bizarre testimony, the court figured, well, that good enough for us to reconvene in a week and we’ll, we’ll investigate those original charges, we’ll request those court documents, which they did and they saw that there was never any allegations of sexual abuse,(3) and they also interrogated, the sheriff and CPS decided they would sit down and talk to every single one of my children. So, over that week, they did just that.

So, Friday comes along and they say, okay, and we’re staying at a friend’s house, and so they say, well, we’re allowed to give you supervised visits, we’re gonna let you have your children back from Friday until Monday when we, [aside to kid] No. [child’s name], I don’t want him up there. [Back to camera] And, uh, Friday until Monday when we go back to court and you’re fine, your children are amazing. Uh, they’re very well-spoken, very well-mannered, very intelligent, they’re articulate, they couldn’t say enough words to describe how awesome we are.(4)

And um, so they kept saying everything (unclear) we’re 100% sure that the kids are going home.

So Monday shows up and there’s bickering going on between the Guardian Ad Litem and everybody and there’s arguing and finally the judge goes okay, okay, and she looks at the sheriff and she says, sheriff, on, on the record, this is his testimony on the record, sheriff, is there any reason why these children shouldn’t be returned home? And his testimony was, no, they’re not breaking any laws, I think the way they’re living is kinda neat, uh, and there’s no reason why the children shouldn’t be returned home,(5) and so she looks at the Cabinet, CPS, and says, asks them the same question. Is there any reason why these children shouldn’t go home, and they go on even further, like, no these kids are amazing, this family’s amazing, they described what they walked into, we didn’t even tell them we were coming, we walked in, the people that we were staying at had six kids and our ten kids and they were like, there was no fightin’ goin’ on, it was rainin’ out all day, they were cooped up inside but there was no fightin’ no arguing, they were getting along and they were just going on about how amazing we are, and how loving we are.

And so, but the Guardian Ad Litem starts sitting there saying, well, they could be brain-washed. And the Cabinet’s like, have you met these kids?

HOST: What?

This is reaching at this point. Making stuff up. Brainwashed in what way? Oh, you mean, to not be totally in line with your statist paradigm?

They could be Russian spies, I mean you can’t be too sure.

JOE: That’s it. And I, and, and so the Cabinet goes, are you kidding me, they told us that Dad smokes pot. They said, Dad smokes pot, and he also, uh, uses, uh, his disciplinary method is pushups and running laps. Sometimes he pulls out a switch and we get a switch on the butt. Uh, we haven’t used that method in quite some time, uh, but, uh, you know, they even said, none, there’s no negative effects to the marijuana smoking, he has no criminal background, he has, there’s no violent background, there’s, there’s nothing illegal about spanking a kid on the butt in Kentucky.

And uh, so she just, they’re all arguing, and so the Guardian Ad Litem goes on even more with this whole, well, he could, you know, they’re Christians, and uh, they’re a large family, and, eh, you know, the father’s a patriarch kind of blowhard kind of a thing. (6) He’s just manipulating and controlling these people and uh, if you met my wife, you know, uh, we both wear pants in this family.

HOST: Yeah.

Yeah, he might be a blowhard, but not a patriarch.

JOE: [laughs] But, uh, so it just turned into, well, we’re gonna keep the kids and we’re gonna put them through, my kids, over those eight week period, met with psychologists, psychiatrists, uh, doctors, a plethora of different specialists, from bone scans to brain scans to heart scans, you name it, my, they were dropping money like it was candy just to have my kids interrogated. They met with educators, and every time they came back, there would be a lot of political jargon, like, oh, the children weren’t allowed to go to public school, or the children weren’t vaccinated and the children don’t go to see a doctor on a regular basis, you know, Dad stitched the oldest kid’s finger back on himself, and the finger’s in good shape, but, then at the bottom it would always say, the kids are healthy, they have no recommendation.

It was just so. . . you don’t need to add all that other stuff to say my kid’s healthy. Now let’s get on with the show.

Um, but, oh, no.

HOST: I still have you.

Yeah, I don’t know if you can hear us, but you’re still on

JOE: I have somebody calling in.

HOST: Oh, gotcha.

JOE: So, um, during the next seven weeks of them doing this to my children, and then after seven weeks, uh, the, there, because I did test positive for marijuana twice (7) and then they said if you test, you give us a negative test, we’ll lift supervision and we’ll be able to place them with you. So, I, I, I had, I had stopped smoking some time, and it took like sixty days to get out of my freaking system. . .

HOST: Yeah

JOE: . . .but I finally cleaned the marijuana out of my system, uh, and uh, they were lifted supervision. After eight weeks, the children were placed back with us and uh, and whatnot, and we kept kind of going on, goin’ on, we still had these criminal charges, I was facing

HOST: You’re freezing up a little

[Technical problems and a little discussion about that]

JOE: . . . misdemeanor. . . we record every conversation we could, except for actually in the courthouse, I meant in the court room. In the family court room. The judge would not let us bring our cell phones in there. Uh, but we can order those transcripts, I’m not sure if she’s gonna, you know, seal some of it, because they were talking about that the last court date, of sealing some of it, but we recorded everything, every interaction, every phone call, everything. And uh, so the, my lawyer calls me up and says, listen, you know, you guys have a case, they violated your rights, these things can take years to resolve. He says, and you see how bizarre this has been from the beginning. He says, now, I’ll defend you if that’s what you want, but I’m gonna come home at the end of the day, I’m gonna eat my steak, and I’m gonna make love to my wife and I’m gonna go to bed. He says, they’re gonna find something. They’re gonna. Because at one point, the, the county attorney walks in and says, well, your honor, because they’re not being cooperative in their criminal charges, because we were like, no, we’re not, we’re not plea-dealing, we’re not, I was not guilty of menacing, and my wife was not guilty of, of, disorderly conduct or resisting arrest and that’s it. We’ll take it to trial. I, we don’t care.

And he knew he had no case. He knew that there was gonna be lawsuits, they knew that the county screwed up. And so, he comes into family court, and he says, your honor, because they’re not being cooperative in the other criminal cases, I want to add contempt charges in their family court case. And he actually put two of our kids on the witness list, making it to where we can’t even talk to them now.

And we’re like, so we couldn’t find out what was going on, what was gonna be said, or else we would have felony witness tampering charges as well. He made that clear too, that if we tried to contact them and whatever.

So, we’re now looking at contempt charges, which is six months jail time for each of us. And she was about to give birth, you know, coming up. So, uh, our lawyer made it clear that they were gonna find something. They were gonna hold us in contempt. He said he’d already know, this is, he was telling us that it had already been discussed, that district court was gonna find us in contempt, put us both in jail, take our kids away, get them immune, put them in public school, Nicole would have the baby in jail, they would take the baby, and yeah, we’ll get the kids back when we get out. . .

HOST: Under new terms

JOE: But look at all the damage, six months, just being separated from each other and separated from us and foster care is not a pleasant place.

HOST: Not at all.

JOE: My oldest kids were in a detention center up in Louisville, uh, and he’s, my kids were like, they’d just never seen anything that bizarre, people flipping out, throwing tables. .

HOST: Yeah. [Note: he sounds oddly enthusiastic about this]

JOE:. . . fighting each other

HOST: Oh, those environments aren’t sane.

JOE: . . .all sorts of. . . and, um, so he said, they’re gonna hold you in contempt and they’re gonna find something. Now the circuit court, which is also in the county, they’re gonna rubber stamp what district court did. That’s gonna cost you, you know, when you appeal, you go to circuit court first, that’s gonna cost you ten thousand and they’re gonna rubber stamp it. This is, he’s like, my lawyer’s like, this has already been discussed.

And so he says, in an appeals court, which is where it goes next, that’s gonna cost you another ten thousand dollars, and you’ll win but that could take up to three years. And I was like, holy crap. So he’s like,well, here, here’s, you know, the prosecutor wants to plead you. So I was like what does he want. And, uh, at first it was some bizarre things, so I was like, no. I want my wife’s charges dropped, or whatever, just, uh, uh, whatever they called it, deferred, or whatever, they just wanted her to admit that he had a reason to pull her over. So that way they can, we’ve already talked to lawyers, that still doesn’t negate from a lawsuit, uh, and then they want me to plead guilty on my Class B misdemeanor. I don’t have a criminal background. I’m forty-three years old and I have no criminal background. Ah, and um, so, they wanted to give me like sixty days jail time. I was like you got to be kidding me. And so, I ended up talking it down, (8) I ended up doing four days jail time and I did an Alford plea, which just means I maintain my innocence, um, but the county, they’re gonna screw me over anyway.

And then family court, we would both plead, uh, dependent [asking Nicole], yeah, dependency for living in a dilapidated home and because I smoked marijuana.

HOST: [incredulous] Dilapidated?(9)

You’re fucking me. That’s serious?

JOE: (unclear) . . . but dependency. Right. And, uh, which just means basically that I can’t work at a day care center or an old folks’ home or whatever. (10)

HOST: That’s truly insane.

JOE: So we said, okay, we’ll do it. And that was in November of 2015. So, and it was all supposed to go away. So they rush our criminal pleas through, uh, uh, I, uh, plead and I said I would do the four days jail time and Nicole said, yeah, he had probable cause to pull me over, and then as we’re getting ready to do the family thing, the Guardian Ad Litem starts throwing a fit. Just starts throwing a fit. Talking about she wants us to be forensically evaluated. Forensically evaluated. All of us. All of our children and us, so. . .

HOST: Now what exactly is that?(11)

JOE: . . . the judge goes ahead and orders it. In our deposition. Which is supposed to be . . . it. It’s like, in the (unclear) CPS worker, she’s like never heard of this. Usually, people have forensic evaluations to see if the children should be returned, not after, after the children have been returned, but after custody has been returned. So, CPS has been beside themselves this whole time, my lawyer’s been beside themselves the whole time, and, and it’s just amazing, so they did this forensic evaluation order them, it’s like a year later, they still hadn’t gotten any of us in. They kept going to court, saying, well, the lady had her father die, that runs the forensic evaluation and then other stuff going on, and uh, so finally they do me and Nicole, and now we’re talking over a year later.

So we go back into court and the results haven’t come back from them, but I convince the judge, and I speak up, and I convince the judge to sit there and say, (12)  well, let’s just call off the kids being evaluated and if we find something in the parents, then we’ll have the kids evaluated.

So, that was fine, so we set up another court date and they get the results in and basically it’s thirty-nine pages of, uh, political opinion.(13) At the end of it, it says, these parents are not suffering from any mental illness, but because, and she goes further, she says, and I, and she even states in her evaluation that her test doesn’t measure anything she’s about to say. But that the forensic evaluation actually (unclear) to prove that we don’t suffer from any mental illness. But because, but because we’re so adamant and outspoken about our lifestyle, about our political opinions, about our, about our faith, that it puts us in a contentious environment to where people react contentious towards us and that puts our children in danger. (14)

And I was like, what?

HOST: This is like blaming a woman who may dress a little (unclear) for being raped.

JOE: And, uh, they want to argue that, um, uh, that they want to see progress with this, and I was like what are you guys talking about, so I, I speak up again, and I tell her that, listen, these tests show that we’re not mentally ill, we’re not suffering from any mental illness, that would put our children in danger, uh, you know as far as the test results are concerned, as far as how they evaluate it and according to law, and uh, the psychological, you know, the different things, schizophrenia, uh, whatever, uh, they have on that list, um, and uh, and so I tell them that listen, because if the Guardian Ad Litem, my lawyer start talking about, oh, are you going to, you know, get every Amish person in here, or are you gonna get every homeschool kid in here and start eval. . . are you actually going to change Kentucky law and say that you need to have every homeschool kid evaluated?

And so the lady’s like, no, because they’re not sitting here in my courtroom. The Nauglers are sitting here in my courtroom. So at this point I speak up and I say, just because we’re sitting here doesn’t mean we’ve lost our rights. We still have our rights. And I have yet to see a charge with us being charged with anything. Nonetheless convicted of anything.

HOST: Right.

JOE: And I tell the lady, the, the, the tests, judge, I tell the judge, that you know, these tests, these forensic evaluations show we’re not suffering from any mental illness, uh, and that the Cabinet who is the investigative arm for family court testified profusely every time we’ve walked in that we’re a very loving family, our kids are very intelligent, very well-mannered, very well-spoken. Eh, and that, uh, they’re very impressed with us. Every time. And um, but the Guardian Ad Litem is a, she’s um, she’s one of those people that got really upset when Trump won, uh, she’s a liberal Democrat and she’s very anti-religious and anti-large-family and anti-traditional. Uh, you know, we seem to be dealing with a lot of those people at this moment for the past 20 months, we have, uh, a, a fanatic liberal blog writer who is, has been writing blogs for quite some time about us, everything. (15) Uh, we post, um. . .

HOST: Do you mind telling us who that is?

Yeah, I’m curious. I’d like to look up on them.

JOE: I don’t know if it’s my phone or you guys, I’m having a hard time hearing you.

HOST: Well, do you mind telling us who that is. If you aren’t comfortable with that, then that’s fine, but it’d be interesting to read what she (16) has to say

JOE: (garbled due to transmission problems) . . . dropping names. . . .you mean?

HOST: Yes.

JOE: Are you referring to the blog writer?

HOST: Yes.

JOE: (phone issues) There’s a different volume on this.

HOST: Yeah, the uh, the uh blog writer.

[Silence, more phone issues.]

HOSTS: (talking over each other) We can’t hear you right now.

[laugh] Well you silenced yourself successfully.

[laugh] yeah, we can’t hear anything now.

You changed the microphone volume.

[More technical issues, garbled, Joe in and out.]

HOST: You should have heard the technical issues we had last week. (laughing) Yes, it was a lot worse than that.

JOE: Now you sound like you’re whispering, and I can’t figure out how to turn up my volume here.

Um, well the lady that writes the blog, her name is Sally Davis, and uh, the name of the blog is Blessed Little Blog, and she’s been writing it since, since when? (asking Nicole)

NICOLE: About a year, or a little over a year.

JOE: A little over a year. And uh, first of all, they have no facts about family court, (17)

because no facts have been released except for the ones that we’ve released. Like um, the cabinet based the CPS saying the only thing they found out of everything, they have access to all the results, all tests, everything, the only thing they found to substantiate, is that educational neglect. And they specified, not because our kids are retarded or anything, but just because we didn’t tell Breckinridge County School Board, that we were homeschoolers.

HOST: Oh, oh no!

JOE: (talking over Host) That’s all they found. We released that paper.

HOST: That is insane, I wish I could, (garbled)

[More phone technical difficulties, don’t really understand what Joe is saying, but he is asking someone in the cabin if they know how to do something with the phone.]

HOST: Well, got it figured out Joseph?

JOE: I got it.

HOST: All right

JOE: Say that again.

HOST: No, never mind. Um, let’s try, let’s try to wrap this up. (18)It sounds like things are getting a little bit more difficult for uh, us to communicate.

  1. Joe tells this story as though somehow, they were just sitting there in court, and out of the blue, Alex walked in from nowhere, and nobody knew he was coming and it was all sort of Perry Mason-ish. The surprise witness.  He doesn’t mention the history behind all this or Nicole’s horrible actions about Alex.
  2. This is the most ridiculous excuse for child abandonment I have ever heard in my life. I don’t have 12 children. I only had one. But I would have crawled to New Hampshire if I’d had to before I would have allowed a court to rescind my parental rights. This man portrays himself as such a wonderful, loving father, but abandoned his first-born child.
  3. I call complete bullshit on this. In the first place, those were sealed, old records. He doesn’t say how long it supposedly took to get those records, but it wasn’t a few days. In the second place, I doubt seriously that they would have told Joe what was in those records. They are sealed. Joe didn’t go to court. Joe wasn’t a party and has no right whatever to the information in them. Bullshit.
  4. Does anyone else get tired of Joe blathering about how awesome he and Nicole and the kids are?  When you’re really awesome, you don’t have to tell people about how awesome you are.  One of the first things I noticed about Joe was his propensity to carry on about how “everyone who meets me loves me.”  Only they don’t.  I’ve met Joe and I certainly don’t love him.  Eric met Joe and didn’t love him one single bit.  His neighbors don’t love him. He keeps getting dragged into court because he cannot get along with anyone.
  5. First of all, why would the judge ask Sheriff Pate’s opinion on whether or not those kids should be returned?  What in the world would Pate know and what would he have to do with it?  It was not his decision to remove those children and it wasn’t his decision to return them. He’s a law enforcement officer, not a social worker.  Second, even if she actually did that, which I doubt, Joe’s quote about how Pate thought their “lifestyle” was “kinda neat” comes from Nicole’s encounter with Pate, not from court.  I grant that maybe he said it twice, but I doubt it.  Joe has a tendency to conflate stuff.  And third, if he did say what Joe says he said, and I am totally wrong, why have Joe and Nicole decided to go after Sheriff Pate with a vengeance and vilify him every time they possible can?  Seems that when it came to court, according to Joe, Pate was an ally.
  6. The Guardian Ad Litem simply would not use the “they’re Christians” argument in a courtroom where every single person present is probably Christian.  Seriously, this is Kentucky.  Finding a non-Christian in Kentucky is a difficult task.  The patriarch thing is much more plausible, as we’ve seen multiple cases of very nasty situations involving patriarchal men.  Joe likes to pretend he’s one of those, but he isn’t.
  7. Thank you for confirming that, Joe. For the record: I am in favor of legalizing pot, but when your whole family lives in a shed not fit for my cattle and your children are sleeping on a plywood board with no mattress, admitting you were spending money on pot is enough to make my blood boil.
  8. Joe, for all his bluster, caves when confronted with real authority. Plea deals are always engineered so that the defendant gets to “talk it down.”  It’s a bit like selling a house. The price is always more than the seller will actually take.  Negotiation is expected and normal.
  9. Yes. Dilapidated.
  10. I find this interesting.
  11. forensicevaluation
  12. Joe didn’t convince the judge of anything. Sigh.
  13. Read the definition above. Forensic evaluations are not “political opinion(s).”
  14. The translation of this is that Joe and Nicole are both assholes who create conflict everywhere they go and live in a perpetual environment of strife and controversy. This isn’t good for children. I concur with that.
  15. Oh, goody. They’re talking about me.  But read this section carefully and notice something.
  16. How did the host know my gender?
  17. I have never claimed to have any facts about family court apart from what Joe and Nicole have revealed.  Please show me where I ever did that. I do have copies of publicly available court documents for their other bazillion cases, and have published them here, but not family court.  We don’t know about family court beyond their account because it’s not public, which means that Joe and Nicole get to tell their side of the story, but nobody gets to hear the other side. So take it with a very large grain of salt.
  18. First indication that the hosts are getting beyond bored with Joe’s pontificating. They have a whole lot more to listen to, however. Joe is just getting started good.

More later.

Part 1 is here.

Part 3 is here.


54 thoughts on “Joe’s Chain Reaction 2”

  1. How can you listen to this?
    You know, constant and repetitive noises and phrases during an interview indicate that the interviewee is probably making things up?

    This whole thing is a load of bullshit. There is a lot more going on behind the scenes. Frankly, I suspected that the living arrangements were still problematic, but now I see that there are other serious concerns. He stiched a kids finger? Fucking wonderful. That’s just fucking great.
    Is there no longer a gag order on the family court case? If not, I sure wish there was. Knowing that there is all that recording of Joe blowing his own trumpet out there and admitting to drug use while his kids ate toads is an affront to real parents.
    They sure are obsessed with family court lately. Bringing it up quite a bit. Shall we start a pool for when they have to hand the kids over for non-compliance with family court orders?
    I’m gonna guess march 2nd. For reasons.


  2. I hate to admit this is the stuff I get a kick out of. I love your transcriptions and when they just dig the hole themselves then give people an itemized list for where to put the shovel.
    Welcome podcast listeners. Take a look through the archives. Joe just sent you to where you’ll find the truth.


  3. Two observations:

    So, Ms. “Holier-than-thou, peaceful parenting, my kids are free agents” allows Jabba the Hut to employ authoritative punishments, to the extent that he chases his kids around hitting them with a switch?!

    And, the man who can’t afford to feed, clothe, or house his family, who begs for gas money off of the Internet, apparently smokes so much pot that it takes two months to fully clear his sysytem?!

    Did I miss something here? I thought they had no reason to hold the kids? Now, from Jabba, we are hearing that the kids did in fact tell people how shitty their father was, and that they had every reason to remove those kids.


  4. Wow, it is so hard just to wade through the written version of Joe’s ramblings. I’d probably be pulling out my hair if I had to transcribe this nonsense! Joe really lives in an alternate reality, doesn’t he?


  5. Sally, my dear, I cannot thank you enough from the very bottom of my heart to the tips of my toes and onward and upward for transcribing his babbling. I really tried to listen but Joe’s inability to complete a thought or make a coherent sentence is as annoying as NicNaug’s. Because of these tapes (transcriptions) we get such an understanding of the depths of ignorance and neglect these two have in regards to parenting and educating their children.
    I think the way he talks about his first born son, the one he allegedly abused, really made my blood boil. He essentially blames his son for the children’s lengthy stay in the foster care system. Then he stumbles around about how he lost parental rights and how he had, by that time, other children so he couldn’t go take care of getting his first born. I’m with you Sally, I had two children and if one had ever been taken from me, I would have never left the state in which the child resided and I would have been in court every single session, jumped through every single hoop, and paid whatever money they asked to get them back. Here’s an adjective to use in referring to the sloth–dead beat dad! Also, he is calling that child a liar and just for the record, if the child is lying, way to not strengthen any kind of bond with him! Ass Hole!

    But, he kept testing positive for pot, and if had a negative test, he could have had unsupervised visitation but instead, he kept right on testing positive. Now I don’t think smoking pot is a bad thing just like I don’t think drinking alcoholic beverages is a bad thing but if your kids don’t have a pot to piss in or a window…then you don’t spend money on recreational activities. But, his pot smoking kept him from having unsupervised visits with his children, which was an essential step to regaining physical custody…priorities, Joe…priorities.

    You know he keeps saying that everyone keeps saying how smart and well behaved his children are, and I am not denying that in many ways those children have a kind of intelligence that comes from self-care, but it’s clear that family court has issues with the children’s lack of education. This testing to see if they progressed has worn thin on both J and N.

    Joe, I think you better backtrack from using liberal democrat in as a derogatory way or as a way to delegitimize the lawyer; it’s the liberal democrats who are for putting the children back into a healthy home environment. It’s the conservative republicans who really want all foster kids rounded up and tossed into orphans homes. Listen to Newt when he talks about poor kids should be the janitors of the schools and earn their free lunches. OMG. But even liberal democrats, of which I am one, do not advocate child neglect (physical, emotional, or educational).

    I love that Joe throws liberal around as if it’s a disparaging condition…liberal blogger, liberal lawyer…oh my.

    Joe and NicNaug love blaming their condition on their beliefs and not their actions. They are being singled out because they are christians (I know some folks who are christians and they don’t act like J and N), or because they have so many kids, or they are off grid, they homeschool, they homestead, etc. Here’s the deal: you are not being picked on for any of the above. You are being called out because you lie and scam and neglect and grift and do all those things that make you lower than a snakes belly. If you admit that you don’t work because you don’t want to pay back child support or you don’t bath cause you are too lazy to hook up a water source…you know, own some of your own shit.


  6. The Ewok: pretentious bloviator who still worships C3PO. No disconnect from food. Should have more disconnect from food. Should have greater connection to work. Is intimate with offspring?!?!

    Medusa: snakes and goodness knows what other wildlife for hair. Instead of turning people to stone induces laughter and Deuling Banjos. Easily repelled with camera phone. No disconnect from food. Big disconnect from non-online life.

    Offspring of the Ewok and Medusa: very apparent disconnect from food. Foliage ? for food among hemlock, poison ivy, snakes, turtles, and lizards. Creates meals from unlabeled charity cans.

    Neighbors and other aflictees of the Ewok and Medusa: wonder what horrible thing they did to have the rotten luck or karma to have the Ewok and Medusa end up in their midst. Longs for the day when the Ewok and Medusa will disappear.


  7. Well glad Joe admitted that he hits the kids. And Nicole dear, this is why you weren’t welcome in radical unschooling groups. They could clearly see that you were not a radical unschooler like you claimed.

    A little background in unschooling, there is educational unschooling and then there are whole life unschoolers or radical unschoolers. Educational unschoolers just apply the principles of unschooling to their education and nothing else. They may or may not believe in corporal punishment, their kids may or may not have chores and bedtimes, etc. Radical unschoolers don’t do any of that in their homes. They consider themselves peaceful parents, both in acts and words. Radical unschoolers do not believe in physical punishment at all. Threats of physical punishment are not in the vocabulary of a radical unschooler. Nicole spouts a lot about unschooling but she is as much of an unschooler as she is a homesteader or off grid. Sorry to grab onto that but when this shit all went down lots of unschooling groups were sharing their story because they called themselves unschoolers and I didn’t want people to be taken. Obviously though lots of people were taken in, to the count of $45,000+. But to be clear they are not unschoolers and do not belong to any of the mainstream unschooling groups.

    I’m just so tired of their bullshit. So far this podcast is full of a lot of word salad, thanks to Lisa or whoever I heard that from first. They tend to latch onto talking points from various subgroups and try to pass themselves off as legitimate members of those subgroups. But they are simply grifters who lie so often that I doubt they know what the truth is anymore.

    And this podcast continues to piss me off. What a bunch of assholes. I do hope they are reading here. How stupid to have this moron on without doing two minutes worth of research on him. Sure hope he doesn’t ask them for any cash or any of their listeners for donations. I’d hate for more people to be swindled.


  8. One way I knew he was lyin’ again was when he said that Sheriff Pate told the judge that what they were doing was “kind of neat”. Thanks for pointing out, Sally, that if that were the case, why would they continue with their bloviating vendetta against the man?
    Like others, I didn’t make it through the podcast. Thanks for the transcript.


  9. Joe, I don’t think your children are well-behaved at all. I am not blaming the littles, because they have been left to become feral and fend for themselves. Jacob and Q have known better times and so should know better. I am thinking of the unschooling video Nicole did a while back. Those kids weren’t funny, articulate or endearing. They were annoying as hell and disrespectful. I get that they were uncomfortable and likely had no fucking idea what their mother was talking about, but their behavior was awful. This is your fault Joe. Yours and Nicole’s.

    Their new foster parents will have their work cut out for them, trying to repair all the damage you two idiots have done. It might not even be possible depending on how much they have suffered. I hope they will find and fall in love with some sort of normal life in safe, clean, loving homes.

    I find it very telling that very few people are commenting on this podcast on YouTube – well except for the people who have seen through your shit. Last I checked there were 37 comments and only 2 were supportive – both from you Joe. LMAO. And 2 comments on BLH. The gravy train left the station a long time ago. You two own this disaster. Can you feel it all closing in on you? Can’t wait for the kids to be taken!


  10. My house. My knowledge. My profession (retired). My experience. This bullshit might play to people who are ignorant of the law and the system. I’m not. I’m am going to lay this all wide open. Thank you. Previously all the Nauglers did was reveal sometimes on purpose, sometimes inadvertently what transpired in family court. This time (and the recent video outside the courthouse) they have opened the floodgates.


  11. “My older son, from a previous engagement.”
    I thought the older son was from a one night stand. Was Nicole originally the other woman?
    What a booby prize!


  12. I didn’t address the pot use in my first response but this little tidbit of info proves yet again that Joe and Nicole lied about CPS and why they were keeping the kids. This is the first I’ve heard of him testing positive for drugs.

    Whether or not you believe in marijuana we can all agree it’s pretty fucking stupid to use when you can’t feed or house your children. It’s even more moronic to use when they are in state care and you’re begging on Facebook for money to get them back. This isn’t shit good parents do.

    I’ve got some issues that could be improved by pot use but it’s illegal in my state and I have minor children so it’s not even something I would consider. My kids are my number one priority and I would never do anything to risk losing custody of them. But seriously Joe’s pot usage meant more to him than getting his kids back in his home, let that shit sink in. What a fucking great father.


  13. Sheriff Pate told the judge that what they were doing was “kind of neat”

    Pate did tell Nicole that when he came to the property just before they took the kids. However, you have to put it in context. He was pretty much placating her in a last attempt to get her to agree to allow CPS to interview the kids. He was in a vulnerable position. He knew the two older boys were on the property. We now know that those two older kids are the ones who were with Joe when the menacing event occurred. One of them is the boy who is now accused of brandishing a gun in the latest Horsegate thing. Were I Pate, I’d have tread with caution.


  14. I thought the older son was from a one night stand.

    Joe’s use of the word “engagement” is just as weird as his use of the word “foliage.” He and Nicole were together, briefly separated, he went north and created Alex. How many nights were involved is anyone’s guess.


  15. Wow. Sally, great job on that. Thank you.

    Joe said that because they weren’t cooperating in the criminal case, a contempt charge was added to the family court case back in 2015. He was saying that is why he took a plea deal on the “I want your water…hey kid, go get me muh gun” charges.

    So, fast forward to his son’s charge of pointing a gun. Nicole has said that the family court is doing something that isn’t even in their “jurisdiction”. Makes me wonder if the family court has added a contempt charge because of Joe’s and the son’s criminal cases.


  16. Also JN says he has no criminal record. Ummm excuse me but he damn sure does. That’s just ridiculous for him to say when his record has been all over the place. I also think it’s so funny he put that post up a while back about how he smoked MJ & how great it is etc. & after a few minutes it was scrubbed to say he isn’t now because it’s illegal. He doesn’t care if it’s illegal. He just realized that family court is still watching.


  17. “How many nights were involved is anyone’s guess.” Recall Nicole stated that it was a one night stand. Maybe Joey had some explaining to do after the podcast.


  18. I could see right away that Joe was lying because his lips were moving.
    Every damn thing that comes out of his mouth is his attempt to spin everything in his favor, which is pure nonsense. JN & NN are scam artists and they know it!


  19. Joe’s non-stop talking about how much CPS and the sheriff compliment him, his kids, and his lifestyle choices make me think about how Donald Trump has repeated so many times that his penis is large. Someone who is secure doesn’t need to constantly remind the world about it.

    My mother described to be getting switched. I am nauseated at how Joe is nonchalant in talking about whipping his children.

    Does Kentucky really have enough MRI machines to do brain scans on almost a dozen kids on short notice without any reason to think they have anything wrong that an MRI can uncover? We aren’t in a poor area, but it takes months or more to get a non-life-or-death-emergency appointment with the MRI machine. Even if your kid has a brain tumor, it can take a long, long time.

    If they were shown to be mentally ill in the evaluations, that might mitigate to a small extent some of their actions. An evaluation of no illness shows that they’re aware of what they’re doing, and don’t care.

    //the Cabinet who is the investigative arm for family court testified profusely every time we’ve walked in that we’re a very loving family, our kids are very intelligent, very well-mannered, very well-spoken.//

    Bullocks. Listen to how the parents talk. Confrontational, rude, statements that are so bizarre that I have to tell myself that the problem isn’t me not understanding them, but them not knowing that words have meanings.


  20. I’m as deeply disturbed by the rape analogy as the Mariana Trench. A woman who is wearing a short skirt doesn’t deserve to be raped, no matter what. A naked, drunk woman slurring out words daring someone to stick it in her doesn’t deserve to be raped.

    This doesn’t compare to being a parent. There are things you can do as a parent that make you deserve to have your kids taken away. My aggravation with the pot is the kids go without so many basics, but there’s money to buy pot. He admits to whipping the children. I believe Alex about the sexual abuse.

    There’s nothing you can do to deserve being raped, but there is a lot you can do to deserve your kids being removed. Comparing Joe to a rape victim is so offensive that I don’t even.


  21. First off…thank you Sally for transcribing this. Not only is it easier to read the transcription than it is to listen to Joe, but it may come in handy to someone, like authorities involved with J an N, to be able to print it out to have it handy in case they need more information.

    I don’t know whether I want to get angry, or laugh my ass off when Joe continually says that they are such awesome parents. What an utter crock of crap! What loving parents place such hardships on their children. Make them sleep in a van in below freezing weather because the lean to they built wasn’t fit to live in. What rational parents starves their kids enough their hungry kids go through the trash to get something to eat? It may not have been the pancakes Nicole threw away that made the kids sick, but most certainly the lack of sanitation and clean water makes a stomach virus flourish from kid to kid. Grrr… I could go on with example after example of the poor living conditions those children have been made to live in. Not to mention the mental abuse the kids have endured at the hands of such “great parents.”

    I hope those radio show hosts and their audience look up Sally’s blog! They’d get some semblance of the truth through facts instead of the fiction and web of lies that J and N are spinning!


  22. So were the hosts of this so-called show intentionally giving J enough rope to hang himself? Or are they just that stupid to do zero research and then allow the guest to hijack the interview with barely a peep from them?


  23. The visceral loathing I feel for this jackass could not be more clear after reading this latest round of subterfuge. In a weird way I am feeling sorry for Nicole which I never thought would happen! This off-the-charts narcissistic douche bag seems to suddenly want to be personally in the limelight for reasons that are absolutely mind boggling to me. Nicole has been carrying that family financially, and in social media terms for ages. Now he wants some attention? God he is so fucking repulsive.


  24. “Listen to Newt when he talks about poor kids should be the janitors of the schools and earn their free lunches.”

    I had the best time blasting him all over the internet when he did that. You know what? I don’t have a problem with kids cleaning up after themselves, mopping the floors, wiping down the tables after lunch, etc. But you know which students need to that? ALL OF THEM. Not just the ones whose parents are well-heeled.


  25. Joe says “the cabinet based the CPS saying the ONLY thing they found out of everything, they have access to all the results, all tests, everything, the ONLY thing they found to substantiate, is that educational neglect.” No, Joe that is incorrect. Nicole posted a substantiation investigation notification letter with two findings: educational and environmental neglect. If the environmental neglect was unsubstantiated, Nicole would have been able to post and unsubstantiated investigation notification letter.

    Thank you Sally for all your hard work in transcribing the interview. I have only been able to listen to it once.


  26. because they weren’t cooperating in the criminal case,

    This is what appears to have happened. Take into account, of course, that we only know what Joe and Nicole tell us, and Joe is often rambling and a little incoherent. However, we know from what he’s said that the two oldest boys (Jacob and Q) were present during both his criminal incident and Nicole’s. Joe and Nicole were both refusing to even consider taking a plea and that means they were holding out for a jury trial. That’s fine, and within their rights. But that then made their boys witnesses, and they were apparently told that they could not talk to their boys about either incident. If they did, it would be considering witness-tampering.

    Apparently, they did it anyway, or the court felt they probably would, and so the boys were put where Joe and Nicole couldn’t have contact with them. I can’t see that the court had much other choice.

    Faced with not seeing their boys until after their trials (months possibly), they both took pleas.

    I’m not a huge fan of plea-bargaining, BTW, but I understand the necessity of it. I’ll probably write something about that later on.


  27. He doesn’t care if it’s illegal.

    I don’t, either. But I have a big problem with somebody who won’t work, and does nothing whatever at home, who begs for gas money and smokes pot while his children wear raggedly clothing and live in a garden shed.


  28. So were the hosts of this so-called show intentionally giving J enough rope to hang himself? Or are they just that stupid to do zero research and then allow the guest to hijack the interview with barely a peep from them?

    Good question. They seem to have known in advance that I am female, which means they knew this blog exists.


  29. Didn’t they claim that the LDS church they were a part of adored Joe until they found out he was a stay at home dad and then shunned him? I think its more likely the church found out he was doing illegal drugs (like it or not in the state of Kentucky it is illegal) and dropped him like a hot potato.


  30. As has been earlier stated a bazillion times, I personally have no issue with pot being legal, and I used to smoke a bunch back in my younger days….BUT….it is illegal, and at some point everyone has to decide if getting stoned is worth the consequences of smoking dope. Most people are smart enough to eventually figure out the working at low wage jobs and the risk of getting caught, going to court, paying fines, and having a record just are not worth it. Joe is apparently too blessedly stupid to realize that fact.

    And this is really not that big of a deal, but everytime they retell the water story they attribute the lady being angry to Joe deleting her from his facebook account. He always emphatically states that she did not know him, did not know his kids, and had no reason to call CPS. But if that is truly the case then why was he friends with her on Facebook in the first place? I do not have random strangers just added to my friends list for kicks and giggles. Yet again, he sounds like a blessed little liar.


  31. MJ is measured in nanograms. It’s kinda like a ruler to measure how much THC is in your system. Under 50 nanograms is considered passing a drug test. The better the pot, the higher the THC. I seriously doubt Joe is smoking good shit. I think he is smoking a lot of shit. I have also been wanting to say for a long time that NN looks like someone with meth mouth. I’m not saying she is currently using, but once it eats your teeth….
    Who in the Appalachian area lives with dirt floors? Besides the homeless?
    Sally, thank you. I wasn’t going to listen. I have been waiting to read here because I can’t stomach his voice.


  32. I think Joe talks a lot now because people aren’t responding positively to Nicole. They probably think that the public is just down on her, so they’ll change it up a bit.


  33. “Not just the ones whose parents are well-heeled.”

    I meant to write, “Not just the kids whose parents are NOT well-heeled.” *headdesk*


  34. I have often wondered if Joe has a marijuana plot on the Blessed Homelesstead.
    It would explain what the hell he does with his time, and how he can afford to indulge.


  35. Actually we do not know it was the two older children with Joe when he caused the incident that resulted in his menacing conviction. All we know is that is what Joe just implied. I have been told that there were more children with him than two and not necessarily the ones he identified.

    The truth is hard for some.


  36. Although Nicole’s missing teeth/poor condition of remaining teeth do look very similar to a person who is on meth, or was on meth, I tend to think her poor dental situation is due to a combination of poor nutrition, having too many babies, and practically non-existent pre-natal care. She can scoff all she wants at women who see an OB/gyn when pregnant, take pre-natal vitamins, and follow the recommended nutritional guidelines. Just because getting pregnant is “natural” and having babies is “natural” doesn’t change the fact that pregnancy is hard on a woman’s body. She’s a dumbass for letting lard ass continually impregnate her and then make her be the primary bread winner for the family.


  37. A. Bella asks, “Does Kentucky really have enough MRI machines to do brain scans on almost a dozen kids on short notice without any reason to think they have anything wrong that an MRI can uncover?”

    Oh yeah. A scan only takes 20 to 30 minutes. Now yes, they can take longer if you’re imaging more of the brain, or you want more “slices” imaged but really and truly it shouldn’t take more than half an hour if nothing goes wrong. Like someone wiggling, or the machine having a hiccup of some sort.


  38. Skyline, their issues with the church were numerous. One thing about the LDS church is they do have an awesome church welfare program but it is designed to be temporary. It truly is a hand up. I know because we used it for about a month when we were a young family with four little kids and we got behind. We were living in the CA Bay Area and we were not prepared for the true cost of living. It was truly a blessing to receive the help we got. Our bishop though went through our finances with us and tried to see if it would be possible for my husband to pick up another job. He realized though we truly were living frugally and did need the assistance. My relief society president even went so far as to question me because she didn’t feel that I was ordering enough food for our family.

    So the welfare system is generous but they want to see you put in effort. If you are not working and are able they have job counseling and job training programs. They also want you attending all your church meetings and volunteering at the storehouse is another stipulation of receiving aid. It’s not a free ride.

    Joe refused to work, made excuses why he refused to work. I am fairly certain they received more than just food aid. It’s on a case to case basis but the church will help with rent and electricity if they feel they are extenuating circumstance. A man not working and not providing for his family doesn’t go over well in the LDS church.

    Another issue was tension with the other members in various wards. It was not just one ward. In all my years in the LDS church I only knew of two circumstances when members were told not to attend and both of those cases were involving individuals who were being charged with sex related charges. Every ward I’ve been in has had a few nutty individuals or families. No one blinked an eye, they weren’t asked not to attend. So in order for them to be asked to not come to church it had to be more than just them being nutty. I do know Nicole and Joe both had run-ins with various members. I don’t remember all the details but clearly they cannot play well with others.

    I say all this as a former member but I know things in the church haven’t changed much over the past few years. I was not a member of Nicole’s ward so I was never there to witness anything but she has spoken about their issues. And her’s and Joe’s pasts show they don’t get along with people.


  39. LOL! They aren’t going to scan their brains to see if they’re getting education! They will evaluated them, test them. A scan doesn’t show you how smart someone is. MRI’s are for diagnosis reasons, they can certainly pick up some stuff, but it won’t tell anyone how much “unschooling” the kids have or haven’t had.


  40. I am home sick today. Elementary aged school children are like Petrie dishes. While I sit on the couch, whine and drink my coffee, gawd help me, I have been reading over the transcription again. A couple more things stood out to me.
    First, Joe refers to Alex as “this kid.” Fucking hell that made me crazy. BTW, Sally, I love, love, love being able to have a potty mouth writing here. Thank you for that. Anyway, Alex honey, if you are reading this please feel free to call your sperm donor any name you want too, without guilt. He never deserved you no matter the circumstances of your creation.
    Second, during my time working in social services and even now in the school system, I have seen some horribly neglected children enter foster care. Standard procedure involves getting the children to a doctor to determine their overall health – a thorough check up. If teens are sexually active they are tested for STDs and girls will have an internal exam (never against their will). Shot records are dug up if they are available. Those usually exist somewhere because here in Alaska you can’t attend school without being fully immunized for your age. There are waivers but they are rarely used.
    The only time I have seen a doctor order more extensive testing is if there are health concerns that have been neglected (rickets, fractures, obvious disease). So Joe is either full of shit or he is admitting that these children were showing very obvious signs of neglect and abuse to warrant the medical tests he describes. Brain scans? Yeah I doubt it. Those tests are typically reserved for serious concerns of either a traumatic brain injury, suspicion of tumors, diseases like Alzheimer’s etc. I have had a few brain MRI’s and they are about 45 minutes and very unpleasant. That does not include the time for set up. Children are typically sedated because even though your head is snapped in a cage, you must remain very still. I usually have Valium on board and fall asleep. There are risks with contrast and sedation (minimal but there) and this kind of testing is ridiculously expensive. I call bullshit on this Joe.
    Foster children are often referred for counseling which is a no brainer. And it is not uncommon for “home-schooled”, re: intentionally educationally neglected children and not real homeschooled kids, to undergo testing to determine where they are at.
    Without realizing it, because he is too fucking stupid, Joe has opened up a clear window in what life is like for these kids and it’s ugly. Very ugly. The system will likely be burdened with these kids for a very long time as they try to recover from their abuse and neglect. And it’s all on you Joe and Nicole. One hundred fucking percent.


  41. I came back to say something about MJ, the every day smoker needs 30 days without use to clean their system (On average). That’s part of the reason I mentioned the 50 nanograms, this allows for the person who goes without to have a little “play room”. I’ve heard all the stories about 2nd hand smoke and that’s just not possible. The real truth about getting the kids back is that he kept smoking and didn’t give a flying fuck about them.


  42. I hope that Kentucky cps have been scouring their roster of foster parents to find the one’s with the biggest heart as well as the patience of saints. The littles would certainly have some special needs. I doubt that any of the kids under six are potty trained. All of them are poorly educated or not educated at all. The elder teens are probably mad as hell. I am sure all of them are broken in some way or another. It’s time for the kids to be removed, cared for, and given a shot for a decent life.


  43. Someone may already have commented by the time I submit this. I saw the comments on MRI scans and wondered what I missed in the interview. Upon re-reading the transcript, I located what I missed.

    “my kids, over those eight week period, met with…….. a plethora of different specialists, from bone scans to brain scans to heart scans”. First off, this is Joe Naugler we are talking about and so he may mean that all the kids obtained scans, a few, or even one. I suspect that for the bone scans and brain scans it was only one child. I recall reading that one of the Naugler children was injured while in foster care. I think the injury was a sprain or break. I believe that the child received x-rays (bone scans) to determine if there was a break. If that same child hit his/her head while sustaining the injury, a CT scan would like have been performed to R/O head trauma (brain scans). I really don’t have any idea why a heart scan would have been done (I suspect the heart scan was an ultrasound).


  44. What stands out for me is how he called Alex “that kid” & when he said the workers asked his kids if they were “happy”. I bet the kids said no, they weren’t happy. They told the workers that he smokes pot. Does he smoke in that little space or does he drag his fat ass outside to get high. Does he know what weed does to developing brains?
    I wonder if the kids had to tell the workers about the parents sex. Did they even ask them?

    Joe, that kid is the lucky one. He isn’t with you.


  45. I happen to live in a state that allowed for medical marijuana. I got a card for chronic back pain. I took a dose in the evening, after dinner and helping with homework. If while my child was still a minor, I was in any danger of having my child removed, and part of the deal to keep him with me was no more pot, I would have quit immediately. It’s a no brainer. Joe’s single priority is Joe. Read it and weep Nicole; it’s the unvarnished truth.


  46. Nicole posted one of the middle boys fell while riding bike the night before they were to go home from foster care. She said he cut his face around the mouth area and had stitches. She posted that quite awhile after tge kids came home. Shortly after the kids were returned she made a post looking for input on a doctor. When doing a vlog with that child he made mention about not going back to see the doctor in Louisville.

    Nicole also posted that the next to the youngest (baby of the family at yhe time) had a full body scan done on him while in foster care. She also posted that some of the kids were vaccinated with out their permission.
    She also bitched about the one that was 3 and turned 4 while in foster care the foster mother made him wear diapers.
    She posted one of the younger kids was moved to different foster home a lot.

    SHE gave all that information. If she had not posted it then no one would EVER have known it. She bitches aboyt all yhat2 is known and when repeated tries to twist it and make it look like trolls are lying or making stuff up.

    Joe says all the kids had scans but she has mentioned only one had a full body scan. It can not be both ways. IMO they lie, spin and deceive so much both of them that the truth is probably some where in the middle.

    Truthfully I am shocked she is not spinning a story that the little boys especially the baby had their foreskin retracted. She posted how she told the other kids to keep watch fir that and to make sure the foster parents did not do it.

    Some of the littles were on the young or too young end of age for schooling to really be tested or if tested not doing well would not be alarming. But now two years later and NO SCHOOLING poor test results would be alarming. Poor test results could be the thing that hangs them. Well at least one of the things as there are a LOT of things that are grossly neglected with the kids.


  47. @The Sky Is Falling

    In my experience with the kids I would have to say that they did not look particularly happy. Some who were little kids at the time I interacted with them were pretty wild acting and combative. The older ones looked after the younger ones. The older ones ranged from acting frightened of interacting with peers and teachers to being very angry to being devoted to caring for the younger kids. Some of the older ones were really admirable toward their younger siblings and were, indeed, very respectful towards others and adults, if extremely reserved. Some were less so. Except when the much younger kids were acting really wild I never saw them smile except in posed pictures. They were really only comfortable with each other. I would say that Joe and Nicole were certainly features in the kids’ lives but the kids seemed to function as an independent family-like unit from their parents. Any time the kids and parents interacted with each other in an affectionate way it seemed forced or staged to a great degree and was very infrequent. But these are purely my observations and conclusions and are not, in any, way an expert opinion.


  48. People. People. Joe never said he paid money for pot. What he DID say is that he’s a quasi homesteader- he grows things. Incoherent- mumbled- garb. My brain hurts.


  49. @ikeepforgettingmyname – Still sick. Still whiney. LOL. Kids germs are viscious! I love the little ones and when they come in to say hi, I adore them but this respiratory infection is kicking my ass!! I keep thinking that what doesn’t kill me, will make me stronger. I am armed tonight with Nyquil and a hot toddy. LOL


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