In Flew Inza

flu vaccine post

Nicole is sharing again without bothering to figure out whether or not there is any veracity whatever to the bullshit she’s sharing.

She wants all vaccines to be bad, so they are bad. She has zero understanding of how they work or what the flu vaccine is or what it does (if she did, she wouldn’t have shared that incredibly stupid post), but that doesn’t stop her.

Here’s the rest.

six

flu vaccine

Nine points. Let’s go through them one by one.

One.  Mercury.  OMG. Mercury. We’re all gonna die.

mercury

Some inactivated flu vaccines contain a very small amount of a mercury-based preservative called thimerosal. Studies have not shown thimerosal in vaccines to be harmful, but flu vaccines that do not contain thimerosal are available.

From the CDC website. This, btw, is the exact same information sheet that is handed to you when you go get a flu shot. They do not try to sneak this shit past you.  It’s right there in black-and-white.  Read it. Ask questions. Have a shit-fit if it suits you. But don’t pretend it’s a nefarious plot.

It doesn’t matter what the multi-vial contains. You are only one person, dipshit. You are only going to take one dose with 1 mcg of mercury (“bound” mercury, btw, not free-floating about looking for a place to do harm). That is a teensy, itsy, bitsy amount.

For comparison, how much mercury is in a can of tuna fish? Just plain regular old ordinary tuna fish, not the high-mercury albacore stuff?

About 20 mcg.

Live it up. Skip the tuna sandwich and get your flu shot.

Two. Egg allergies.

The vaccine is grown on eggs. So people who are allergic to eggs can’t take it. So what?

Three. Nursing mothers, pregnant women, etc.

I am none of those. Not an issue for me. If I were, you know what I’d do? I’d talk with my doctor about it.

But here’s what the CDC says about it.

Since a pregnant woman (like an old fart) can die from the flu relatively easily, it’s dumb to not do something about it.

Four. Not evaluated to see if it causes cancer (WTF?) or makes you sterile (highly recommended for Nicole Naugler, BTW).  I’m not sure any vaccine of any sort anywhere ever has any “cancer-causing” propensity. I don’t even see how that could even be, frankly.

Five. Reponse low in old farts.  Yeah, we know that already. More about that later.

Six. Reactions. Well, for pity’s sake, don’t let your damn kids run all over the woods all day long. Serious reactions have occurred to insect stings and caused anaphylactic shock resulting in death, you know.

Seven.  No data about what happens if you get fifteen different vaccines in one day. So don’t do that shit. Just get the one. It’s really pretty easy to count to one.

Eight.  Guillain-Barre syndrome. Yawn. Yeah. The risk is 1 in a million. At that rate, if every human being in the United States were vaccinated, there would be approximately 320 cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome that wouldn’t otherwise occur (maybe).

So let’s don’t vaccinate anyone.

The CDC is not sure exactly how many people die from the flu every year in the US, but the number is in the thousands, not to mention the thousands of people who are hospitalized but survive, or who spend a week at home unproductive and miserable. As the link will show you, doing an estimate is hard. It involves a whole lot more than just counting.

At any rate, the number is a whole lot higher than 320 (and not all those 320 people with Guillain-Barre will die).

I’ll take my chances, thanks.

Nine. 50% protection. She writes this as though that is bad. It’s actually pretty good, if you understand anything at all about how the flu vaccine works.

Here’s the deal.

You know how scientists call swine flu “H1N1”? The “H” and the “N” stand for substances that are found on the surface of the flu cell. Human beings, as of right now, are only affected by three different “H” viruses. H1, H2, H3.  That’s all. Avian flu, which is H5, hasn’t been able to make the cross-over permanently.

Here’s a reasonably good article about it that doesn’t get so technical it makes your eyes cross.

And here’s another one with more detail.

Viruses mutate very, very easily. And when they do, the cell that used to be H1N1 becomes H2N1, and bam, you have a new flu virus. That’s why immunity to the flu is a crap shoot.

The pharmaceutical guys work like motherfuckers all year long trying to figure out which strain of the virus is causing all the havoc this year, and then taking huge guesses (using computer modeling) to try to predict what they are going to mutate into for next year. And since it takes several months to grow the vaccine, they have to start this process for the fall of 2017 like yesterday, or at least by Christmas.

It’s a bit like trying to be the weather forecaster, but being held responsible for figuring how where hurricanes are going to hit next summer, and then being criticized horribly if you get it wrong.

So they hedge their bets. They generally include a cocktail of stuff in a vaccine.  Like this.

contents

See that bit with the H’s and N’s?  The H1N1 is what was floating around last year. They assume it’s still around, so it’s in the vaccine. And the other one is one that they are betting shows up. The last is a B virus and you can read more about that if you like at the link above.

But the point is that instead of just guessing the hurricane will hit Miami, they also get Charleston prepared just in case.

They can’t create a vaccine for every single possibility. The shot would be really big and I ain’t gonna do that.

But this explains why, first, sometimes the flu shot doesn’t “work,” and second, sometimes it sort of “works.”  First, if they totally miss, and the virus goes and mutates into H2N3, we’re all screwed and the CDC eats some crow.  However, if you got a flu shot last year, and if last year’s shot contained some vaccine against H2, you’re in luck.  You have a sort of partial immunity. You might actually catch the flu, but it might be way less bad because your antibodies, while not totally sure about these H2N3 virus cells, say to each other, “Wait. I remember that guy. He was hanging around here last year and we gave him the boot. I swear he looked just like that. Big nose and all.” And others say, “Nah. I don’t remember him at all. You’re nuts. I’m leaving that alone.”  So some virus cells get smashed and others are undisturbed, leaving you with a half-shitty case of the flu instead of a totally shitty case.

And it’s more complicated than that, of course. There aren’t just those two markers. There a few bazillion more, but I’m not paid the big bucks to know about all that.  I just know enough about it to want to get my flu shot.

So I did. Today, as a matter of fact.

sign flu

Dave and I followed the signs to the pharmacy, and there we were given an information sheet, identical to this page. You know all that shit that Nicole’s “source” got from demanding the insert?  Right on that sheet.

Furthermore, we had to fill out a questionnaire.  Here’s mine.

kroger consent

I know it’s hard to read. The blacked-out stuff is my personal information and my signature. The questions are interesting. Look them over in light of the points listed above that are supposed to fill you with fear.

1. Do you have a fever or illness today?
2. Do you have any allergies to medications, foods (e.g. eggs), latex, or a vaccine component (e.g. gelatin, neomycin, polymixin, yeast, thimerosal, etc.)? If yes, list what you’re allergic to___________________
3. Have you ever had a serious reaction after receiving a vaccine? (lip swelling, arm swelling, trouble breathing, seizure, etc.?)
4. Have you ever had a dose of the SAME vaccine for which you are requesting today? [NOTE: I put yes even though this year’s vaccine is different from last year’s vaccine. I wasn’t exactly sure what the question meant. I suspect it was there to be sure somebody didn’t come in and get a second vaccination THIS year.]
5. Have you ever experienced seizures, Guillain-Barre syndrome, or any other neurological disorder?
6. Have you received any vaccines in the last 28 days?
7. Have you had a mastectomy?
8. For women: are you currently pregnant, breastfeeding, or are you planning to become pregnant in the next month?
9. Do you have cancer, leukemia, lymphoma, HIV/AIDS, organ transplantation, or any other immune system problem?
10. In the past three months, have you taken medications that weaken your immune system, such as anti-cancer drugs, high-dose steroids, chemotherapy, injectable therapy for rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn’s disease or psoriasis (e.g. Humira, Enbrel) or radiation treatments?
11. During the past year, have you received a transfusion of blood or blood products, or been given immune (gamma) globulin or an antiviral drug?
12. Do you have a long-term health problem with heart disease, lung disease (e.g. COPD, asthma), kidney disease, metabolic disease (e.g. diabetes), anemia or other blood disorder?
13. For children or teens: Is the patient receiving long-term aspirin therapy or have a history of wheezing (2-4 yr olds)?

Now. Do you see how the information sheet and the questionnaire covered every single thing that courageous girl above found out by demanding to read the insert? If you answer “yes” to any of those questions, believe me they notice. And you aren’t getting a flu shot unless your doctor personally says it’s okay. Mostly, if you have these sorts of things, your doctor will pretty much make sure you get your flu shot at his office if you need one, and not at all if you can’t take it.

But Dave and I just plowed ahead, answered “no” to everything that mattered and got our shots. And because we are old farts, and our immune systems are about shot, and hence we are more vulnerable to the flu than your average young whipper-snapper, we got the super-duper double-dose Big Shot. In fact, we go early every year to make sure we can get the Big Shot. One year, we forgot and waited too late and they were out and we had to get the Weeny Shot. Bad. We learned our lesson and we make sure we remember now.

me getting shot

Thank you, Kroger.

Thank you, Medicare.

UPDATE: By bedtime last night, Dave was running a fever. Nothing huge. 100-101 degrees F.  Just enough to make him feel shitty.  He was also peeved. This hasn’t happened to him before (and has never happened to me).

Why is he running a fever? (He still has it this morning.)

A fever is one of the most common side-effects of the flu shot.

When your body is invaded by a foreign enemy, one of the immune system’s defenses is to raise your body temperature to make the environment as uncomfortable for the virus or bacteria as possible.

Here’s a fascinating video that illustrates this. I know it’s about honeybees and hornets, but just get the idea here.  In the first section, the poor honeybees (the immune system of the hive) have no idea what the hornets are and are destroyed. That’s you with a very bad case of the flu that lands you in the hospital on life support.

In the second part, the bees know exactly what is going on, and they burn out the hornet. That’s Dave’s fever.

It’s a normal response to an invading organism.  Dave’s body does not know that the vaccine he got yesterday contains attenuated viruses. (“Attenuated” means they aren’t dead, just sort of paralyzed.) So the antibodies react exactly like they are supposed to and raise the body temperature.

Dave’s question was a reasonable one. “Why did I get a fever and you didn’t?”

The answer is “I’m not sure.” Maybe his immune system is more robust than mine.  He’s 77 so I’m delighted to see his immune system kicking in like that.  But then again, and more likely, maybe he has some immunity already to something in the vaccine (one of the H’s or N’s) and so his immune system hit the ground running.

At any rate, the fever will last probably today and maybe even tomorrow, and then he’ll be fine. Except for a mild headache (which is caused by the fever), he has no other symptoms of anything and probably won’t have any. He does not have “the flu.”

Oh, and my arm is a little sore. Not much. Nothing like a tetanus shot. But a little sore.

34 thoughts on “In Flew Inza”

  1. Sally, you had me doing some more research on how much salmon is too much. Both my Dad and I love salmon and I was relieved to determine that our consumption is not enough to cause those detrimental effects. But I also did not know that the mercury in salmon has a biological half life of 90 days.

    At our facility, they did previously offer the flu mist. I believe it is no longer offered due to CDC stating it was not adequate in recent flu seasons. I liked that alternative method.

  2. “or makes you sterile (highly recommended for Nicole Naugler, BTW).”
    Thanks for the laugh, Sally!
    Excellent blog post. I have gotten my flu shots every year, and have had a case of flu only once in the last 10 years. It would have been shittier had I not had the flu shot. Sick 5 days. Some people are compromised by it for 2 weeks, more if there are complications.

    Of course the Nogs think that they either have no exposure to these awful viruses, or they are just incredibly healthy. Because, DIRT. Wrong. Any trip to the Custer store or Walmart, or working with clients in Mom’s shop, gives them easy access to a smorgasbord of viruses and bacteria. If none of the kids have thus far been ill from flu or another disease, it’s been Lady Luck.
    Oh, I forgot about the Pancake episode. That was likely food poisoning, sick from fecal contamination to food, or intestinal flu.

  3. My son is allergic to egg whites but has asthma. We simply take the shot and wait in the dr office. They do have special shots for severe egg allergy patients.

    I’m not sure why she cares….she eats processed food, she lets little ones crawl all over a dirty floor . One of them is bound to step on a nail soon.

  4. Medicare?

    OH MY GOD YOU’RE A WHORE OF THE STATE.

    Just kidding. Thanks for reminding me to get our shots before vacation next month.

  5. This is hysterical. Nicole (and Joe) who love to eat at Hardees and drink Dr. Pepper, (“because she can”), is fear mongering to appeal to the anti flu shot bunch. Totally hilarious!

    Nicole, by all means don’t get a flu shot and don’t worry about any flu shot complications. But right now, you need to seriously worry about the amount of fat and sugar you are ingesting. Check hubby and your BMI, and now look at your chances of heart disease and cancer. Check your vital signs, and hubby’s. You can use an internet chart. You don’t need to read any long complicated list or wait for effects. One thing here though, don’t lie and don’t say it’s not a regular dietary staple, your pictures don’t lie.
    Why don’t you do a list of the all of the ingredients in Dr. Pepper, a Whopper, and those sour cream cheesy Nachos you were eating and feeding your baby.
    Your chances of suffering serious life threatening complications/death from heart disease or cancer are far greater than any vaccine. Keep eating all of that fast food and processed food, it has already done plenty of damage. And that is not even touching on the damage from smoke (toked or wood smoke)regularly inhaled into the lungs.
    Even if you do deny all of the scientific evidence, it won’t save you from reality here. Vaccines are the least of your worries, your diet and lifestyle will get you much sooner. Hopefully the Naugler kids will learn a healthier life style after they are able to free themselves.

  6. Terrific blog Sally!!! My 17 year old Regan was a premie and has lung damage as a result! She has gotten a flu shot every year of her life except for last year because she had mono and she was pretty much confined to the house for a couple of months! The Flu would most likely mean a hospital stay for her so I make sure all of us get our flu shot. The last time I had the flu was before Regan was born and I was dog sick and it was terrible!!! Thankfully Regan has never gotten it! The flu shot has done its job well! Her whole group of friends had it 2 years ago . None of them got the flu shot but her and she was the only one who didn’t get it. Only my oldest son ever had it . It was when he was a freshman or soft more and he got the first confirmed case in our county that year and it was before the flu shots were even out yet for that year. Vaccines are in my opinion one of the top 3 medical breakthroughs ever and I’m very thankful that we live somewhere that they are readily available ! There are mothers in 3rd world country that walk for days to get their children vaccinated because they know otherwise could me certain death! That is why the moms like the one who wrote the post NN shared piss me off so much!!! They are to privlaged and to far removed from the days where moms had 10 babies hoping 3 would survive!!! Thank you for this blog and your stance of vaccines!!!

  7. My old fart and I are getting our super duper flu shots next week. We both have to sit in the doctor’s office for a short time after getting the shot because he is a transplant recipient and takes immune suppressant therapy and I have MS and also take a different kind of immune suppressant therapy. I’ve taken the flu shot for at least the last ten or so years and, knock on wood, I haven’t had the flu one time….I also, gasp, take the pneumovax and because I travel abroad often, I take those shots recommended by our government before going into countries like China, India, the Middle East, Singapore, etc. and, of course, other countries don’t want me bringing nasty bugs into their country, so I take those that are required for entrance….I worry not about the possibility of trace mercury because we are vegetarians who eat a lot of fish and seafood and we know there’s mercury in those fish that we buy and in the fish we catch. I am sure that N doesn’t buy organic shampoo for the dog grooming business or the cleaning crap she keeps in her storage area at her dog grooming business. She exposes her children to those types of chemicals but she considers trace mercury that isn’t going to even stay in the body a high risk for something really awful….
    Poor N thinks she is being such a good mother but has no feelings of obligation in taking her children to the dentist or to the doctor. Her idea of healthy is hauling human waste around in a white bucket or just dropping drawers and dumping behind the nearest bush….having babies in unsanitary conditions and being all happy showing the mattress of her bed that is so nasty, I wouldn’t even let a stray dog sleep on it…and that tub….geeze….I cannot believe she didn’t get some horrible uterine disease or infection. And don’t get me started on the hauling water as a solution for healthy living because you know she doesn’t have a proper container but probably feels nasty white buckets…..ewwwwww.

  8. I’ll have to call the medical group and see when my insurance starts covering the shots. I had both pneumonia and the flu shot 2 weeks apart and didn’t get sick at all.
    Since I’m starting a new job that deals with meeting a lot of people, I think I’ll get it as soon as it’s offered. And take some Lysol spray for the keyboards and 10-key.
    I can’t believe the N’kids haven’t gotten something, with all the crap lying around and the nails and boards.

  9. Some times I debate with myself on getting the flu shot, but now I’m not so sure. I have eczema and I am allergic to hard boiled eggs, chocolate, and tomatoes. I can eat the stuff but I have to watch how much I eat, otherwise I break out into a rash.

  10. We missed getting our flu shots one year and my oldest went down with it. That was three weeks of not budging from the couch, too sore and ill to even have her hair brushed, plus six weeks of getting around but feeling blah.

    Being that sick in the Blessed Little Garden Shed with only Ma and Pa Naugler to depend on seems to me like a description of Hell on Earth.

  11. I’ll be getting my flu vaccine this year. I’m in my 30s (so not in an age group which is automatically given it), but take immunosuppressants which make getting the flu a really bad idea. I also had the vaccine during my pregnancies. Both my children are fine. Actually I had what was suspected to be flu in my first pregnancy, but having had the vaccine it was a dramatically lesser dose of it.

    Children from the age of 2 are offered a nasal vaccine here in the UK, which my oldest will be getting (my youngest isn’t old enough yet).

    Yet another case of Nicole sharing crap without an ounce of research or common sense.

  12. I work at NIH. There are very, very sick people on the campus. As in, “I’m here as a last-ditch effort to not die but as I’m likely to do so, please learn something from treating me that will save someone else” sick people.

    You know who is mandated to get the flu shot at NIH? People who work with patients.

    I’m not one of them. I get my flu shot anyway, for free, at work. Why? Because I am in contact with people, who are in contact with people and someone just MAY be in contact with someone who CAN’T get their flu (or any number of other immunizations) shot and could easily die if exposed to it.

    We take this stuff seriously. There are buildings where you can’t enter if you’ve been exposed to someone in the last 30 days who has had measles.

    I babysat for a lovely couple, years and years ago, who were leery of vaccinating their child. Well, when the Mrs. got whooping cough and broke two ribs with the coughing, they changed their minds straightaway. Their first child may have gotten several immunizations later than recommended (I think this happened when she was 18 months old) but none of the others were given their immunizations late. They’re really wonderful people who kinda-sorta bought some of the nonsense that some people were spewing but they changed their minds.

  13. According to WDRB news yesterday there are currently 20 confirmed influenza cases in the Louisville area already, the flu season officially starts the first of November, the flu shot takes two weeks to build an immunity.

    Taking the vaccine now will protect you from the predicted strains and lessen the symptoms of other strains. You will be more productive by missing less time from work, less likely to spread the virus to family and friends.

    I take the shot every year and will continue to do so, if you don’t care enough about yourself or your family might I suggest wearing a mask to prevent the spread of preventable airborne diseases to those who cannot get immunized due to other issues.

  14. This is a little off topic but relates to general education anyway. Nicole recently shared another article disparaging the ‘irrelevant’ stuff taught in school. Purely coincidentally, my 16 yr old son came into my room with his phone in hand and showed me the meme I’ve seen before that sarcastically talks about how irrelevant algebra is and ‘thanks a lot school system, for making me suffer through this bullshit’.
    Anyway my son had a little rant. He is now taking physics in school and he absolutely loves it. Had he not taken algebra, he would not understand any of the physics he’s learning. He is blown away by physics. Like, he can’t stop talking about it. It’s dawning on him how fundamental physics is to human knowledge. He laughingly remembered hating algebra at first. He talked to me about how grateful he is to have been basically forced to sit through those first days of algebra and how as your education becomes more advanced, the basic learning blocks you achieve start becoming more and more relevant. He was so annoyed to see that meme. He’s a 16 yr old boy who works at a burger joint and plays in a band with his buddies. And thanks to the public school system, he loves physics.

  15. I have eczema and I am allergic to hard boiled eggs, chocolate, and tomatoes.

    Then talk with your doctor. Often he will simply administer the flu shot right there in his office and then have you hang around for a while to make sure you’re not going to have a reaction (he can fix it if you do).

  16. Sally, thank you for the reminder.
    Flu shots are currently available both at my Dr., and my children’s Ped.
    I would much rather have my kids be mad at me for an afternoon, than sick with a possibly
    deadly flu.

  17. I read this and thought, “isn’t it peculiar that Mrs. Naugler has chosen to align herself with the most trendy, bourgeois trend ever to boug?”. The upper middle class rats in cages have chosen anti-vaccination as their latest version of making their Whole Foods bags visible to their neighbors. I started writing a post on the benefits of vaccinations because I do have some experience in that area. But, no. There are folks who refuse vaccinations whose minds will never be changed. A sincere question is one thing, but wasting a pharmacist’s time with your latest pet theory is simply juvenile. It’s like questioning a pilot about chemtrails. Who has the time?

    Murphy, if you work at the Ebil NIH Mothership, I’ve been to that beautiful campus many times as a visitor (and I have the jacket to prove it, muahahahaha!). Keep on keepin’ on.

  18. “…if you don’t care enough about yourself or your family might I suggest wearing a mask to prevent the spread of preventable airborne diseases to those who cannot get immunized due to other issues.”

    If you mean those little blue masks, they’re worthless. Just stay home.

    Cough and sneeze into your shoulder, wash your hands a lot, be glad you got your flu shot and hope that no one thinks that perfect school attendance is more important than keeping a sick child home.

  19. My best friend contracted Guillian Barre from the flu shot. He was paralyzed, unable to breathe on his own, spent almost a year in a rehab facility etc. Now does that mean I will NEVER EVER get a flu shot because of this one in a million occurrence? No. Because I am a smart, able to weigh the risks and benefits of things etc. Does he go on a warpath to stop people from getting the flu shot because of the horrible thing that happened to him? No. Because he knows that his reaction was a one in a million occurrence.

    Critical thinking is not strong with Nicole Naugler or any of her little leg humpers, that is obvious.

  20. Do they know for certain that it was due to the flu shot? I grew up with a girl who got Guillain-Barre from nothing at all that anyone knew about. She just woke up one morning and started feeling numb in her legs. She spent months in the hospital in an iron lung (that was the dark ages of course). She bounced back and was fine a year later, but missed a whole year of school.

    According to the Mayo Clinic, they don’t really know what causes the condition. (It’s an auto-immune thing.) All they know is that the flu shot can be a risk factor, not a cause. But then, so can having surgery or eating undercooked poultry.

  21. Thanks for the information, Sally. I must say Nikki sure is grasping at straws to get attention. trying so hard to be relevant but just comes accross as a misinformed, uneducated, poverty stricken loser. Her descent back into obscurity is killing her. It’s going to be another cold miserable winter for the unfortunate Naugler children.

  22. I have friends that are non vaxers and very anti-flu shot for whatever reason. My son got H1N1 when he was 6.5 and got very very ill, would have been hospitalized if we were anywhere else (Alaska, military hospital…). My daughter and I got very ill with the flu in 2012, my temp was 104 and hers was 105 when we finally went to the ER. In both instances the flu lead to pneumonia. The 3rd time we took my son to the ER with H1N1 he was beginning to turn bluish grey around the mouth and was very lethargic. It was so scary. A few months later he had severe joint pain, now every time he gets any sort of virus or infection he gets inflammation in his cartilage which is ore painful and takes longer to recover from than the actual illness. My daughter ended up with “cough variant” asthma, she was very susceptible to recurring bronchitis/pneumonia and would have never ending coughing fits to the point that she could only sleeping sitting completely upright. An inhaler finally helped but she has to use it at the very first tickle, before it gets settled in her chest.

    I don’t understand not taking PREVENTATIVE measures and instead having your child suffer, get dehydrated, end up in the hospital hooked up to an IV and getting a bunch of antibiotics. My kids had much more severe & lasting effects from the flu than they’ve ever had from the actual flu.

  23. That was what his doctors attributed it to at the time, only because the symptoms came on within 24 hours of him getting the shot. They couldn’t technically pinpoint it to the shot (like you said, its pretty much impossible to 100% determine that) but that’s what the general consensus was. I remember it being extremely scary because he had just got back from El Paso and I hadn’t touched base with him yet. Next thing I know his mom is messaging me telling me he’s paralyzed and on a ventilator in the ICU. 🙁

  24. That woman is a nut case and if anyone can’t afford to get the flu, it is the sole breadwinner supporting a family of 13. If she were unable to work (or nurse) for 10 days they could lose the little they have.

    I’ll be getting my shot this weekend. I would rather use my paid sick days faking it, thanks.

  25. This post hits home for me. My seven year old is medically complex, special needs and immunocompromised. I homeschool not because of ideology but because the local anti vax whack jobs have degraded our local community immunity to the point where it is not safe for him to attend school. (He is fully vaccinated, but his immune system cannot mount an effective defense.).

    Because his needs are so demanding we qualify for in home care services. On Monday, we were “fired” from the agency we had been using for three years. Why? Because we have refused to accept any caregiver who is not up to take on pertussis and flu. This is an agency who deals with an extremely vulnerable population of elderly and medically fragile children. The fact that vaccination isn’t a condition of employment blows me away. The fact that they allegedly cannot find a caregiver willing to be vaccinated makes me want to vomit. I should have known we were in trouble when one of the supervisors told me to “do my own research” on vaccination. Uh…. As I do not have a degree in immunology and have not competed a medical residency, I think I’ll take what the CDC, the WHO and the baseball team sized crew of doctors at SCH who all agree that vaccination saves lives. Period.

    I wish more of these over privileged Dunning-Kroeger nut jobs had the ability to actually see first hand what these diseases are capable of. My first son was born before there was a rotavirus vaccine. He caught it and spent five days in the hospital….lost almost twenty percent of his body weight (for an eighteen month old this is catastrophic). Had we not had access to excellent first world medicine, he could have died. While traveling in India, I saw first hand what polio can do.

    I think N’s vaccine stance is yet another example of her freeloading narcissistic view on the world. The whole reason that she has thus far avoided the reality of ten kids with measles is that most of the people around her not only protected their children, they also did their part to protect their community.

    Anyway, for everyone who got or plans to get their flu shot, on behalf of my son, thank you. The more people who get the shot, the stronger the cocoon of protection that surrounds him and other vulnerable people like him.

  26. I’m also pleased that Dave’s immune system had a nice vigorous response, but I’m sorry he wasn’t feeling well. Doesn’t mean that your body didn’t pick up on the hint though, Sally!

    I participated in an Ebola vaccine trial (NIH) and I did have a lousy night’s sleep and felt a bit run-down the next day. I left work early. When you’re in a vaccine trial they’re very interested in all this information and I duly reported it. I’m pleased to note that the protocol that I was enrolled in is probably going to be “the” form of the vaccine made available here in the US. There was an earlier version, with a slightly different vector used, and the participants didn’t show as vigorous an immune response.

  27. @tekla: That is really interesting. I didn’t realize they did trial runs on vaccines like that. I’d like to know more if you have the time!

  28. There is a video that is going around where an anti-vaxxer goes up to a counter in a pharmacy and has a remarkably similar exchange about inserts. Remarkably.

  29. @Not Shocked Anymore –

    You can go to their web site and find these things. The Vaccine Research Center. Hey! Not only did I get vaccinated against Ebola, I got a spiffy coffee mug! Seriously though, they were all very nice people and spoil their volunteers rotten. It just so happens that the Ebola trial was one where volunteers got paid, but I would have done it for free anyway. Although it was nice and confused the hell out of my accountant who was desperately searching for a category for the payments. He suggested “hero” but we both figured it might lead to more questions than we wished to discuss and filed it under “miscellaneous”. 😉

    https://www.niaid.nih.gov/research/vaccine-research-center-labs
    https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/infectious-diseases
    https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/ebola-marburg

  30. For N and J the pharmacist is in on the conspiracy. She really wants the insert that comes with the drug…you know…the insert that is written by the company that makes the drug. She doesn’t want the information from the pharmacists who has no vested interest in keeping information from the consumer and whose information comes from a more objective source. She is so clever that N…wanting the information from the drug company…the drug company she is convinced is overdosing the world with mercury. LOL

  31. BTW, my old fart and I got our flu shot and neither of us had one bit of discomfort. I am a strong supporter of getting children immunized and adults keeping themselves vaccinated for the various flues that are about to hit. I was the next to the youngest of ten kids and one bright summer day, my mother “carried” (that’s how we in the South say took) us to the lake. On the way, she stopped at the health department to get the school aged kids their polio shot that was being required. I was sick, but the nurse told my mother I should get the shot too if I didn’t have a fever. My fever hadn’t started climbing, so I got the polio shot, but it was too late–I already had polio. By the time we arrived at the lake, I couldn’t hold my head up or turn from one side to the other, but since I was only 4, my mother thought I was tired so she kept me on a quilt while the other kids played in the water…probably a good thing or I would have exposed all those little kids playing in the shallow water to the poliovirus. My mother couldn’t get me to drink water, and I remember her trying to give me a baby aspirin but things got pretty foggy. I remember leaving the lake and one of my older brothers carrying me and it was so hot in the backseat of the car…all of us kids piled together and no air conditioner. I don’t remember arriving home but I do remember the doctor coming…his name was Smith and he always smoked cigars. I don’t remember his words but I remember his concerned look and how tender he was to both Mama and me. An ambulance came (in those days they were station wagons and not really equipped to save lives but clean up after wrecks, especially the dead), my mom stood on the porch and later I learned she and my siblings and our house was quarantined. Doc Smith rode in the back of the ambulance with me, giving me oxygen and sometimes forcing the oxygen into my lungs…my lungs felt like they had been scraped clean of all mucus and they hurt so much I tried to hold my breath. When we got to Children’s Hospital, two hours from our home, I could barely see and couldn’t move. I woke up a few months later still in an iron lung where I lived for a year or so until they began to wean me off. I was in a ward with a bunch of other kids and I was the youngest. Our family could visit once a month on Sunday but my mother wouldn’t come because she thought I would give it to her and she would give it to the new baby. My grandmother and great-uncle came once a month, and they brought me cards from home. I almost forgot who my family was but I did learn to read and even though I wasn’t school aged, I could hear the other kids who were being given some schooling and it helped me to learn. Some of the kids died and some never got out of the iron lung. I was lucky, probably because I was so young and my body was still able to rebuild rapidly and I was also lucky that the doctor assigned to me wondered what would happen if he put my lower body and arms in casts to keep them straight so even though the polio damaged the muscles and nerves on the right side of my body, my bones didn’t curve out so much. There were seven children from my town–all older than me—who came down with polio right before I caught it and they were on my ward one died. Before those kids were diagnosed, I crossed paths with one or more and sadly caught the disease and it changed my life forever and the life of my family. I was forever lamed by the effects of polio and my emotional attachment to my family severed because even when I was released from the hospital, I was sent to live with my grandparents because my mother was still afraid I could make her other children sick. People who say that allowing children to get these diseases like polio and measles and small pox so that they will build a natural immunity need to really look at the pictures of all those children on iron lungs; they need to look at the shriveled legs and arms and twisted backs of those of us whose bodies were damaged by polio; they need to understand that those diseases that warrant a vaccine are not diseases that are harmless like catching a cold. Natural immunity is nice but sadly, natural immunity comes with a high price and in many cases the rode to getting those antibodies end in death. N is neither a good mother nor a good naturalists. I feel so sorry for her children but I feel even more empathy for those people her children could possibly infect should one of them end up with one of the deadly diseases that are now making a reappearance in our country. I do not believe that N is all concerned about the mercury levels or the very small statistical predictions of possible side effects; in fact, I believe her aversion to immunizations is like all the other half assed attempts in her life…she cannot be bothered to make appointments or follow-up on boosters. She cannot get off of Facebook long enough to take the kids to the health department to get their shots…she is a slug and her “stay-at-home-old-man” has even less motivation…so those poor children are totally shit out of luck living in a shit shack at the foot of a shit pile. Poor children.

  32. I am so sorry this happened to you, Jeannie. But I am also very glad for your doctor and what little medical insight and equipment was available then. I remember my mother being so frightened one summer (when our neighbor caught polio – he survived but was in a wheelchair) that she would barely let us go outside. We certainly couldn’t leave the yard and nobody could come over and play. No swimming pool, just a hose in the backyard. No beach.

  33. First I want to say that the Nauglers are beyond batshit crazy. They are horrible people that should have never had their children returned.
    That being said, There are those of us (not NN, most likely) who have children who have suffered medically documented vaccine injury. Egregious injuries. And mercury, in any amount, IS a toxin. If you have a mutation of the MTHFR gene, you cannot properly detox. So before you dismiss us all as crazy, do a bit of research. And if the vaccinations work so well, you should have no problems being around people who choose not to vaccinate. Because this is America, we should get to make that choice.

  34. That being said, There are those of us (not NN, most likely) who have children who have suffered medically documented vaccine injury. Egregious injuries. And mercury, in any amount, IS a toxin. If you have a mutation of the MTHFR gene, you cannot properly detox. So before you dismiss us all as crazy, do a bit of research. And if the vaccinations work so well, you should have no problems being around people who choose not to vaccinate. Because this is America, we should get to make that choice.

    Okay, I allowed this comment, but I will not just allow it to stand as it is. Every single sentence in this paragraph is false. Patently, provably false. I do not have time to write a whole blog piece on vaccines, and I’m not sure I even want to do that. I am going to “dismiss you as crazy,” frankly, because you are very deceived and very ignorant. The last two sentences are the worst ones.

    There are a great many people who cannot get a vaccination for one reason or another, including small babies. Additionally, there are old people, like me and my husband. We got vaccinated for the flu, and we go to some trouble to make sure we get the double dose because our immune systems are shot all to hell due to our age. The flu could conceivable kill us. It could KILL us. And you have the absolute nerve to say that “because this is America, we should get to make that choice.” You should get to make a choice that might kill me. You should get to make a choice that might well kill a newborn baby, just because you don’t understand the first thing about immunity or science or anything at all.

    No, you shouldn’t.

    I’m not sure that I would advocate for mandated flu vaccines, but I sure as hell think there should be mandated-by-law core vaccines for children, with jail (and I mean JAIL, which means children removed from the home) for their parents if they don’t comply.

    If you want to beat the anti-vax drum, you will have to do it on some other blog. I own this one and it’s not going to happen here.

    Oh, for anyone who wants to read about the gene she mentioned, here you go. It’s the latest bullshit thing that is circulating as the cause of all that ails us.

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