Horse Comparison

I am putting these images here just for the sake of comparison.

I want to make it clear that I am not an expert on horses. I have owned one horse and one pony, years ago. I currently own two donkeys and some cattle.

In my opinion, this horse has lost weight. The first three images are from Nicole’s Blessed Little Homestead blog (look it up on Google, it’s the entry for October 23). If I link to it here, and you follow the link, she will block your IP address. In fact, she will probably block your IP address anyway, so if you know how to use a proxy, do so.

The last image is the one from today.

If this were my animal, I’d be finding out if her condition was okay by talking with some experienced horse people. I’d be checking to see if her hay was adequate (and I’d ask more than one person and certainly somebody other than the person I was buying the hay from).  And I would make sure that her diet was adequate and her living conditions suitable.

I would do something to horse-proof that paddock.

I would not be in a panic, but in my experience, if an animal starts losing weight, you can get in big trouble really fast.  They can lose weight rapidly, and take practically forever to put it back on. (I wish I knew the secret to that!)

Anyway, here they are for comparison and future reference.

October23a

All the above are from October 23.

Christmas day.

NOTE:  My thanks to the person who has the rights to those last two photos and who sent them directly to me.

 

 

174 thoughts on “Horse Comparison”

  1. Will our fearless heroine consider that the horse people may know more than she does or will she continue on her troll lined path of ignorance……?
    Tune in for the next episode of “As The Windmill Turns”.

  2. Shhh, don’t say anything about the large obvious weight loss in the horse. She will put up a comment something like, “My horse eats a healthy diet to sustain her through her active, free range, lifestyle. If you don’t agree, just move along.”

    Wait, she already did…….sort of like the one she used to have at the bottom of her blob (typo intended) about her children, along with her posted heavy carb minimal protein diet for the kids.

    Poor Beauty!

  3. Wel considering she is already deleting any “mean” comments because she just wanted to show a nice picture of her horse and daughter it’s doubtful she will listen to reason. In order for Nicole to listen to advice that would mean she would have to admit to being wrong. I know I shouldn’t be BEC but Nicole has never, that I’ve experienced, admitted to being wrong.

    I don’t know much about horses. I have been around them since my early teens and I am now well past my early teens. But I don’t recall seeing healthy horses looking like that. But I’ll leave that up to the experts.

  4. No one was rude. She said she deleted comments because they were rude. I was following closely at that point and prior I saw no one be rude and saw no comments actually being deleted at that point (could be different now)

    I saw many that were genuinely concern and honestly trying to help her. Hey, the horse looks like he had lost some weight, doesn’t look like it has enough weight: what are you feeding it? How is it eating? Have you noticed any eating issues? Etc.

    Just genuinely concern and trying to be helpful. She of course took it personal and started to spin it as people attacking her. No, Nikki no one was attacking. People were genuinely concerned and trying to help.

    I have had animals that have been very loved and well cared for that have gotten sick and have lost weight quickly. Not anything wrong I did, but underlining illness besides diet that cause weight issues.

    Over all I think people were seeing a loved animal that perhaps just needed some medical attention or more food or both. They saw a horse that looked like it was possibly slightly under weight and wanted to draw your attention to it.

    They wanted to be sure you knew and could take action before the animal got seriously ill.

  5. I agree the horse has lost weight & also looks stressed. The mare has been there a few months & has had to adjust to new owners & a new place (a process that takes about six months). Besides the food intake I would be wondering what it’s pervious living conditions were like. Was the mare with other horses? Was is in a pasture setting? There does seem to be something off on how she is standing. I would be worried about trash that is in the padlock (shabby padlock). Things like glass, nails, metal, etc. is all over that property as stated by N herself. Looking at what little I can see concerns me. What is with the cinder looking blocks in the back ground? I would hate to see the horse get messed up with that. And the fence. I don’t know where to start. I sure hope that horse doesn’t get its hogs caught, but it will. That is not a horse fence at all. Is she mucking? Where is all the horse shit going? Plus horses pee a lot. This looks sloped. Where is the pond? Directly beneath this? A horse living in that padlock (I have no idea what the last place it lived at was like) is going to need extra care on its hoofs. Twice a day in that type of padlock. To me the horse doesn’t look like it is being properly curry. I would love to see its stable and the watering station. Another obvious notice is that nylon bridle doesn’t look like it is fitting properly. The horses ears are not relaxed. To me, the horse looks stress & depressed. Of course this is just one picture. I would really be interested in seeing what this horses pervious living conditions were like. Horses get very attached to their owners & the other horses around it. I would never have just one horse unless I boarded it with others.

    And really Nicole what do you know about horses teeth?? If the bit & the bridle are not fitted perfectly the horse is going to have problems.

    With the horse in such close proximity to the goats I would think the horse should not look so stressed & depressed. But this is one picture. One picture can’t tell the whole story. Even with ribs showing (the horse is in a new environment & most loose a few pounds during the adjustment period, unless it is a totally different living set up (no other horses, no stable, no clean water, different care & feeding, etc).

    We live in CA & bought a horse from England. That mare took almost a year to adjust. If I had to do it again I wouldn’t do it. That said, our last horse came from Colorado & she did really well. Horses are very expensive & very time consuming. So are ponds. Ponds are just like swimming pools on the Up keep of them, that is if you want a healthy pond.

    In reality Nicole has a very very poor hobby homeless farm camp. Shame on the people who sold her this horse. The daughter is a minor & is not legally responsible for the horse upkeep & health no matter what Nicole thinks.

    I would love to know who they contacted to help them pick out the horse & where they are learning about horses. And who the vet is. I hope there is a vet. And a cerified furrier And a I sure hope 4 H is an option.

  6. @Amie….LOL. Well said!

    So Sally I read your BEC post and wrestled with myself. Could I do it? I could give Nicole credit for getting up every day (well, when the shop is open) and making a go of running a business. Honestly, though, that’s it. And I have nothing for Joe. Not one redeeming quality. I am very familiar with his kind of person and any goodness or charm he might exhibit, always has a nefarious reason behind it. Some may think I am a bitch because of this, but I have dealt up close and person with people like Nicole and Joe and am convinced that there is nothing good there.
    Now as far as the horse. Is the mare in imminent danger? No. Well unless she impales herself on one of those uncapped posts, or gets colic, or spooks and injures herself beyond repair on the cement blocks. Is she a healthy horse? No she is not. Could her problem become more serious? Yes, much more serious.
    It’s been a long time since I owned or worked with horses. In my youth we had quarter horses and then a little more than a decade ago, I spent two summers as a manager of a horseback-riding operation for a good friend. If one of our horses looked like that and had lost 100 plus lbs in 2 short months (a horse vet tech friend of mine is saying it’s about 150 lbs), I would be calling the vet and seeking advice from more experienced horse owners than I.
    I have been a dog musher for almost 30 years and even with all the experience I have, I will still seek out the advice of mushing friends and our vet when an issue arises. There is no shame in it. In fact there is power, you can learn a hell of a lot and you increase the size of your network.
    Even when I lived in the bush, 100 miles from anyone, I didn’t just wing it with the dogs. I ensured I was adequately supplied for dogs and humans. My med kit went beyond simple first aid and included IV kits, bags of saline, antibiotics, pain meds etc. I picked experienced people’s brains about some of the situations, medically, I could face. I practiced suturing. I took canine medicine courses. People respected me because I asked questions and took advice.
    In those many years in the bush there were 2 situations that I needed vet help with. One was with a dog named Greedy who bloated shortly after dinner. Thankfully his stomach hadn’t completely flipped and I was able to insert a needle into his side and he deflated like a basketball. I was on the sat phone with the vet the entire time, thinking wtf am I about to do here? Greedy lived another 8 years and died an old man in his sleep. The second time was with a bitch named Cubby who had whelped a litter of pups. She almost immediately developed a closed pyometria (uterine infection) and despite my best efforts and the advice from the vet, she took her last breath in my arms, leaving me to bottle feed 4 pups. All pups survived and thrived. If I had been able too, I would have chartered a plane to get her help but it was freeze up and the ice wasn’t safe yet for even a small aircraft.
    Even in the middle of the wilderness, I still made an effort to reach out to other, more experienced people for help. Nicole is in the middle of fucking horse country and yet she stubbornly digs in her heels and says there is nothing wrong. At what point does she realize there is indeed something wrong? Another 150 lb weight loss? When the horse is beyond the recovery they can afford and A’s heart is broken?

  7. I sent these over to one of my aunts, who is a horse-expert. I asked if she thinks the horse’s weight looks okay, and all she said is that the horse needs to be removed from the situation and that excuse of a paddock immediately. I asked her to elaborate, but she hasn’t in a few minutes. I’m going to guess she’s in bed.

    I’m not a horse expert, haven’t owned horses, but have studied their care and keeping a lot in hopes of one day getting a horse (I know enough to know that now is a bad time for us), and have friends who are die-hards as well who go on and on for hours about this stuff (regulars at the Kentucky Derby, that sort, but they’re on vacation in Italy, so I can’t ask). Between my admitted non-expert knowledge, and just damned common sense, Beauty’s lost weight and looks like shit. Her coat has lost its sheen and is dull and filthy. Her paddock is a mud pit that puts her at risk of rain-rot. That’s part of why she needs a covered stall. If she doesn’t have a place that’s dry to go, and has to stay in that mud, she can get a bacterial infection and die. And she’s already losing weight. You should never be able to see a horse’s ribs.

    If I hear back from my aunt, I’ll let you know, or maybe someone else who is an actual expert instead of just a hobbyist preparing long-term for one day getting a couple horses (we’re probably going to jump in on a shared lease in spring to dip our toes in).

    I’m concerned for Beauty.

  8. Wow, you guys/gals! Everyone in the last post who was commenting with such excellent, detailed information to help out that poor young lass in caring for her horse?

    Well, you all deserve a “Well done!”. Seriously, a lot of thought was put into your comments and the sharing of your knowledge showed me the quality of posters gathered here.

    I’m proud of you all! (I know nothing about horses so cannot contribute but honestly appreciate all the detailed yet layman-termed horse information)

    Thank you ALL for being so very helpful and kind to the young lady who clearly has a heart of gold! May she read this and do better. Good luck, young lady – you can do this!

  9. I don’t know about the ground down there but here horses need selenium shots. She knows something is wrong or she wouldn’t de- worm again so soon. Also she said the horse eats one square of hay a day. Does that mean just one flake? (Where the bale seperates when you open it usually in a two to three in “slice”) I feed three flakes three times a day for our pony plus grain with malasses in winter. But who knows if I was doing it right. I mean no malice in sharing what I did I know that horse is someone’s dream and beloved pet/companion-mine was at that age.

  10. Interesting. She buried a comment in a long thread a while ago that the horse was sold to the gluefactory. I’m pretty sure that they don’t use horses to make glue anymore but I thought it was an odd comment to make and even odder to bury it. Regardless I guess I’m happy that the horse is still there as having it snatched away and sold to be killed would have been devastating for the girl.

  11. I truly hope that the youngster who loves this horse can persuade her parents that what they’re seeing is a decline and they DO something about it. This. Is. Not. The. Child’s. FAULT. She’s in a lose-lose situation with this one and she needs help from people with experience in these matters.

    If they can get their hands on ALFALFA or a good alfalfa mix hay – do so. Get her a waterproof turnout blanket. Get her teeth evaluated and discuss your deworming program with a VETERINARIAN. She needs at least 15,000 calories/day. Good horse feeds – high in calories, easily digestible, low in sugars will provide a lot of calories per pound so you don’t have to feed as much but you will have to plan on feeding her plenty. But if given a choice between purchasing lots of high quality hay to feed your horse and concentrates – go with the hay. Store it on pallets, under a roof, with three walls. Throwing a tarp over a pile of hay bales isn’t a good idea because you will have moisture build-up and rot will set it. It needs air circulation. If you are the slightest bit concerned with the moisture content of a bale or bales – SALT each layer as you stack it.

    Please, Nicole and/or Joe – help your daughter. You’re in over your heads on this one. Swallow your pride and seek help. Call the county extension agent. Call U of KY and speak to an equine nutritionist. Her Henneke score is now about a 3.5 (you really need a veterinarian to gives a hands-on evaluation and you should have blood pulled on her too) and it’s going to drop – fast – if you do not get ahead of this.

    Now, the Henneke BCE has been misused in the past but it’s still a handy system. Here are two links for you to read.

    Here’s the big one: http://www.gerlltd.org/Education/Equine%20Body%20Condition%20Score%20Presentation.pdf

    This one if from Equus: http://equusmagazine.com/content/content/8566/Henneke-BCS-August-2006.pdf

  12. Nicole…if you are here reading….please read the “Bitches and Crackers” thread. Several people have left you some extremely useful and detailed information on strategies to correct your horse’s weight on that thread. Some awesome information left by people who are honestly trying to help. If not for your sake, for the young lady who is obviously very attached and trying very hard.

  13. That poor, poor horse. Winter is hard enough when you get adequate food, won’t be long before that poor creature has elf shoes and is starving

  14. Girl child – if you can’t get your hands on current issues of Equus, at least look up some of the old articles. Here’s one on oils:

    http://equusmagazine.com/article/which-oil-is-best-for-horses-8623

    You can get rice bran from Southern States. Keep it cool, dry and away from moisture. Even things that are stabilized still need to be stored properly.

    Here. Read this as it has lots of information about starches/sugars, digestibility, calories, etc.

    http://www.southernstates.com/docs/eq/horse_feed_ref_manual14.pdf

    Obviously they wish to sell their own products but that doesn’t negate the information.

  15. Interesting. She buried a comment in a long thread a while ago that the horse was sold to the gluefactory.

    Nicole often makes idiotic comments like that. She thinks she’s doing “satire” for the “trolls.” Sometimes she uses one of the socks to do it.

  16. That poor horse. And that soon to be heartbroken girl. I despise the Nauglers with a passion that burns. I am so grateful not to be their neighbor in home or business. Ick.
    In her post, she mentions that she’s preparing arrest papers/court dates for those who report and harass them by reporting. Where I live, people who make CPS reports and animal welfare reports etc, do not face repercussions for doing so. Can someone clarify? I am sure she’s just running her nasty mouth, again, but I am curious.

  17. We sold many horses to the glue factory when I had horses. It soynds horrible to people, but think about it logically. If you have 20 year old animal that weighs over 1000 lbs and no way to dispose of it when it dies (you would be digging for days with a shovel), well, you have to do something with it.

    I wouldnt fault someone who sold their horse to “the glue factory”. These horses are sold at auction, and if they have any life left in them, then a family buys them. If not, they go to the slaughterhouse. It is just a fact of life. People get emotionally attached to horses, but they are not dogs, they are livestock.

    I honestly do not know what they do with them after they are slaughtered. I dont think they use them for glue though. I never really asked. Now I have something to google.

  18. Interestingly enough most horses sold to “the glue factory” are exported and slaughtered for human consumption. Who knew?

  19. Call me jaded,but I think she’s deliberately showing the horse in its bad shape as she has a bigger plan. Think about it. First it was the “We need to move ” freak out, then the business neighbors nonsense now a depressed looking teen girl on the back of a sick looking horse. It’s like she’s thinking if everything collapses at once, the kids will for certain be taken and then she and Jabba get to be the ultimate victims yet are also finally free. I don’t for one minute believe she’s a loving mother. Those kids are just attention tools for her. And now she’s tired. She’s got a long game going on. Not a short one. She’s not stupid.

  20. I agree with all the comments about the fence, hay, teeth & water. I want to point out something about the horse’s feet. If a horse stands in mud all the time they can founder. Colic can also lead to foundering. Foundering is when the horse’s coffin bone starts coming through the bottom of the foot. It is super painful & the horse can’t walk. Non-movement also leads to colic. When a horse can’t move, it’s digestive system ceases to work. Dehydration may also lead to colic, that can lead to foundering…Do you see the vicious cycle they are in???
    It’s like the book I used to read to my boys, “If you give a mouse a cookie, he’s going to ask for a glass of milk. ”
    The N’s have NO IDEA how to properly care for a horse. That poor girl is going to lose her to something that could probably be prevented. However I’m sure that NCN will spin it that Al, Sally, & others made the horse sick.
    NCN is the one who is sick…

  21. Her coat has lost its sheen and is dull and filthy.

    As I mentioned elsewhere, one of our donkeys (Georgia, the dark one) has a very shiny coat in the summertime and is simply gorgeous and looks like shit all winter. Her winter coat is dull and mottled.

    Actually Frances is like that to some extent as well. She always looks “better” in her summer coat.

  22. My question is who is she filing false arrest on? Things get weirder and weirder with this one. I couldn’t imagine being trapped in a shed with the constant negativity. This is not a healthy environment for anyone especially children who’s minds are still developing.

  23. Poor girl and her horse. They are just an end to the means of Nicole here.

    Nicole has some experience with the fervor of animal protectors from the story with Ranger. And now she’s riling them up again. There are two possible outcomes:
    – the Nauglers get help for the horse (free of charge)
    – they get attacked over the horse’s living situation and can be victims again (which they can then use to justify any other behaviour/action)

    Both cases would be a win in Nicole’s book.
    She’s just like one of those beggars on the streets in winter who show their babies to passerbys.

  24. Sad for the child who must know that something is wrong with her horse but whose “unschooling” does not help her to know what is wrong or how to fix it. A child can’t enter into a contract for vet or farrier services; the patents would have to do it. And since they don’t get medical attention for their children, I suspect that horse will never be seen by a vet.

  25. I agree with Sleepless. No-one was rude. I repeat: NO-ONE WAS RUDE! If anything, the concerned commenters were falling all over themselves to NOT offend her royal haughtiness and they were groveling and pleading for mercy and forgiveness when she displayed her typical narc-injury-fury towards the commenters…fury at nothing but NORMAL and gentle inquiries with regard to a dependent creature . I don’t care one wit if Nicole is a BEC or not. I understand the post you made Sally, but I just don’t think it applies (for me anyway) with regards to Nicole; and I did examine my heart. I WISH she was doing something as innocuous as reading a book and turning the pages. I deeply wish she was unable to affect the life of ANY child or animal. Unlike others, I feel less angry at Joe than at Nicole. He may be weak and lazy with a propensity for leering, but she is just…heartless. Cold. And as someone else stated, he seems to have a gentleness with the children that she lacks, so it makes sense to me that a child would run straight past her to get to Joe (a reference to one of her posts). Maybe it is a blessing in disguise that she is the one that works away from home.

    I do believe she knew the picture of the horse would piss people off, and that is exactly why she posted it. Well, it worked. This picture embodies everything that is upsetting to me about this family–particularly Nicole; and I realize by saying this, I am giving her the reaction that she wants. She feeds off of getting people upset because it gives her the sense of power and control that she craves.

    Sally, your post on gas-lighting was my favorite so far, and it gave me some relief to have you lay it out that way. It’s what I experience when I read her blog and FB pages. Pictures like this horse picture make me feel gas-lighted, in a sense, because they embody so much misery and suffering, while Nicole stands there and says that what I see (and sense) isn’t true but actually the opposite is true. There is NOTHING sweet about this picture! Nothing. Ribs, filth, and sharp fence aside, just look at the expression on that horse’s face! Look at the eyes! Look at the difference from the earlier pictures! The energy around the horse is completely different than it used to be. I don’t see “cuddling” either, but be that as it may. It’s just disturbing. All of it.

  26. >>I don’t for one minute believe she’s a loving mother. Those kids are just attention tools for her. And now she’s tired. She’s got a long game going on. Not a short one. She’s not stupid.<<

    Old Miss… I couldn't have said it better. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. It's infuriating to helplessly watch and be unable to do anything about it. And NO, Nicole, I'm NOT going to stop reading/watching you. I'll do whatever the hell I want, which is exactly what you do. Unlike your poor children and helpless animals, you have no control over who gets to read your stuff–unless, of course, you shut it all down, which would be a delightful relief to us all.

  27. My question is who is she filing false arrest on?

    She’s not. She cites the statute but it doesn’t even say anything applicable. She posted a photograph publicly. People have opinions about the condition of that horse. If some of them call or notify some agency or some horse welfare group, well, they are clearly doing so based on her photograph alone. Nobody is claiming that they actually saw the horse up close and personal.

    If the agency or group sees nothing to be alarmed about, that will be the end of it.

    She is just creating drama.

  28. I hope Nicole or Joe will read all the advise given on the horse’s condition; there’s a lot of sound advise in the comments. Nicole is foolish if she thinks she can file a complaint for a false report on anyone reporting the horse. The pictures of before and after Naugler care are enough to warrant a visit from authorities, if for nothing else, to do a welfare check and advise them.

    Where I live, the recent image of the horse is enough for the local animal welfare people to approach owners and recommend condition changes and veterinarian visits. Then they return a few weeks later to see if the owners have heeded their advise. Typically that first visits is enough to get the owners in gear, the second visit is just to make sure, and a third visit is not usually warranted. There are always cases that require further action on the part of authorities but those are not commonplace.

  29. The area the horse is kept in being mostly dirt can be the cause for the dull coat. When the ground is dry it is going to be very dusty. Any animal with hair kept in a dirt area will pick up all the dust on their coat.
    With their water situation I highly doubt they have give the horse a bath as that takes tons of water. Hell it even takes tons of water to properly wash a mini horse. If they have tried to bathe it with out enough water it would leave the shampoo on the coat another thing that would make it look dull. A good pour of corn oil over the feed will help to counter some of that too.
    Also horses are known to roll on the ground too. All dirt no grass more reason for a dirty dull coat.
    However with the ribs showing that is pointing to diet for the horse vs being dirty. If the horse has no place to get in out of the rain it can get rain rot too.

    Horses take time, work and money neither of which they have or if they do are willing to spend it to do it right.

    Good luck on them trying to sue people. That takes money and knowledge of the law if doing it on your own. A law suit will be on that list of plans that never get done.

  30. I also saw the photo on BLH page not long after it was posted and the first thing I noticed was the poor condition of the horse. I figured NN was trying to stir up shit because it had been an awfully quiet day for her with everyone enjoying Christmas and not paying her any attention. I also followed along closely and up to that point did not see where she deleted any negative comments when she posted that she had. She is such a deliberate liar. I’m not sure what her intentions are at this point, but she seems awfully subdued and quiet. Maybe is a desperate ‘Please push the Paypal button’ plea?

  31. @BlessedLittle Blogger oh I know it doesn’t apply. In her internet law classes she hasn’t come upon the part that teaches you that laws can’t be twisted to fit an agenda. Law is very literal and point blank. She doesn’t (or very clearly does) understand when you post things a reasonable person would find alarm in it will cause outrage. Then again they’re not reasonable. Even her supporters are (were) pointing out something is wrong with that horse.
    Ok assuming due to it being winter the horse is losing weight, it’s JUST NOW becoming winter. You adjust an animals diet accordingly especially one that is a grazing animal. At this rate the horse will be emaciated by the end of January.

  32. BEC is nitpicking. Neglect is not nitpicking. Finding fault with perfectly fine bows is BEC. Pointing out where a helpless animal is not being cared for properly at risk of its health and life is not BEC. Pointing out that people who cannot seem to properly care for helpless, dependent children, including getting them proper medical attention from licensed HCPs, are probably not going to do any better with a helpless, dependent animal is not BEC.

    This isn’t FreeJinger, where the definition of BEC changed so fast I got whiplash and was so inclusive of any criticism and commentary that it negated the existence of the entire site.

    I think a good litmus test for BEC is whether someone’s life, health (including mental health), or safety is affected. If the answer is no, it may be BEC (but maybe not). If the answer is yes, it should be more than fair to discuss it.

  33. I’ve been reading this and the BEC thread to my brother. He’s a horse person (as in races them.) I showed him Beauty’s after pic and he thought the horse looked poor. Showed him the before pics. Now he thinks the horse is in big trouble. He took one look at the fencing and she’s going to break a leg when it collapses. My brother said Beauty needs a ton of calories, a better enclosure and all the advice from others is extremely sound. He doesn’t need to repeat it.

  34. I’m going to respond as a horse expert having had horses for 50+ years. There is no way to tell if this horse has lost weight. There is only one side photo of the horse and that is in the newest photo. The three earlier photos do not show anything as a comparison expect that the horse’s croup looks a little peaky in both photos. Could be weight, could be muscle loss, could be how the horse is built. I am wondering how this horse looks depressed as this is exactly what my horses look like when they are standing quietly or sleeping. Could be depressed, could be sleepy, could be ready to collapse…we don’t know, it’s just a photo.
    I am guessing this horse has worms because of how it’s carrying it’s weight. In any case it needs to be on a worming program because there is something called encysted strongyles that can wreak havoc in your horse’s gut if you don’t take care of them. This involves worming a horse for 7 days straight with the appropriate wormer so that you take care of the worms already in the gut and the ones that are about to hatch. It should also be wormed at least one more time each year for other types of worms using a different wormer.
    I have no idea how much the bales weight that they are feeding but the horse should be consuming about 20 lbs of food per day in hay or grain. That’s a general rule of thumb for a 1000 lb. horse during the winter. Sweet feed is cheap and it sucks, way too much sugar. The hay should be dust and mold free(mold can cause colic in a New York second)The horse should be on vitamins that are specially formulated for the area they live in. Where I live we have a selenium deficiency so we supplement for it because if we don’t it’s possible the horse will collapse without enough selenium in it’s body.
    It should have it’s teeth checked yearly by a vet using a speculem because that is the only way to check far back into the mouth for sharp points that can cause chewing problems. Horse’s teeth, unlike ours, erupt continually(they are always growing) and they may need to be filed to maintain good dental health. This eruption slows as they get older but since this horses is6(?) it should be checked yearly. It should also have vaccinations yearly that are appropriate to the area. Farrier should be out at least every two months to trim the hooves and/or put on shoes. Please do not attempt to do your own trimming, it’s a great way to ruin their feet.
    I would be concerned about thrush if the the horse’s feet are not kept clean and as dry as possible. Also mud fever if the horse ends up standing in mud.
    I hope [child’s name] has a good vet handbook in case of an emergency and some banamine on hand in case the horse colics. Dressings, ointments, wraps are all a necessary part of a good emergency kit.
    I’m not going to comment on [child’s name] being on the horse without a saddle or bridle or helmet. Shit, I used to ride bareback with a friend on her horse that would simply follow all the other horses that were being ridden. I learned my lesson the hard way. She may, too.
    The fencing scares the shit out of me. T-posts should be capped and wire hung correctly. It’s a mess.

  35. I added a couple of photos to the gallery above that were sent to me. They show elderly horses in good shape. One photo was taken in the dead of winter. The other during the summer but the horse was genetically thin and 28 years old. He died the following year from old age.

  36. Nicole is in the process of creating the PERFECT STORM! I think she wants to GO VIRAL again!!

    IMHO Nicole has a plan and I think she wants to go out with a BANG!!!

    I think we all know who the “FALL GUYS” will be?

  37. You have one person saying the horse is fine, and numerous of other people saying she needs more groceries. Id be listening to the people who actually know about horses. I don’t know anything about horses and when I saw that pic yesterday the ribs was the first thing I noticed.

  38. False arrest reports for what?

    First you have to be arrested, and then the arrest has to be false.

    Calling an animal welfare group simply doesn’t qualify.

  39. I wonder if Beauty bent the fence over or if the goats climb it everyday to “help” her eat that sweet feed and whole bale of hay. ??

  40. >>I don’t for one minute believe she’s a loving mother. Those kids are just attention tools for her. And now she’s tired. She’s got a long game going on. Not a short one. She’s not stupid.<<

    You know, when I read this, something occurred to me that I almost pointed out in the BEC thread.

    I think you're right about Nicole being tired.

    I took a peek through the Christmas themed photos posted publicly on her business page. There's a pretty clear cut off when she switches from Thanksgiving pumpkins to Christmas backgrounds.

    The complimentary thing I was going to say on the BEC thread….is that Nicole has really worked these last couple of weeks. She's groomed a LOT of dogs. She's worked damned near as hard and as many hours as…well…a normal person! Pet grooming sounds like a fun silly job….but it's honestly back breaking, patience fraying work. I worked part time for a grooming salon summers home from college. Particularly, if you're doing it 8 hours or more a day, it will physically and emotionally wreck you.

    I'm sure the logic was to "make hay while the sun shines"….and the weeks leading up to Christmas are a groomer's apocalypse. 80% of your whole clientele wants an appointment. Most will want it within a week or two of Christmas….the idea being they want their pet to look beautiful and smell beautiful for company. You'll get a ton of new people, too, who you'd like to hook to expand your client base. The groomers I worked for….a very nice lesbian couple….said that grooming completely ruined Christmas for them. It became the dreaded holiday of doom because the demand was so intense. I remember visiting them at Christmas and them showing me their arms crisscrossed with scratches every quarter inch. A lot of days, they were working 8am to 8pm.

    So yeah…I give Nicole some credit for working "ten days in a row" and doing a fairly tough job.

    That said…

    In all the years I've known of the Naugs…I don't recall another instance of her working this hard. There's always something that prevents it. Pooting out another baby, emergency moving, some great injustice to be shouldered, etc.

    I think Nicole and Joe feel romantic about the IDEA of hard work, and self-sustainance, but I think the actual application of it leaves them feeling discouraged and ornery and put upon.

    During the only productive full time work weeks I can think of in recent history….Nicole has declared that they must give up on the home-shed all together, move, that the imminent danger is far too great, that the sky is falling, that she must sue the world! She's been prattling on about the injustice of being taxed, her victimhood, blah blah blah…. Her weird stunt filming the neighbors, all the legal retribution she's promised for people voicing their opinions…blah blah.. Apparently, real work makes the woman come a little unhinged.

    I think the truth is that Nicole loves the IDEA of owning a grooming shop, but doesn't really enjoy working at one. This could by why she's run the experiment and folded a few times in the past.

    Similarly, I think Nicole loves the IDEA of a huge family.

    But when push comes to shove…is she enjoying that huge family on Christmas Eve on her only down time in ten days? Is she reaping the reward of all that hard work by delighting in the company of ever expanding family?

    Nope, she's checking out…all by herself…sequestering herself on her computer to get to the important business of posting angry things on social media……even though a whole bunch of little ones are probably dying for her attention having not seen much of her in a while. What's wrong with this picture?

    Nicole does love the drama.

    She has an opportunity right now…to keep her head down, avoid conflict, work hard, invest in her kids and live life very much on her own terms. Something she claims is her whole goal in life. Hell, if she redid her homesteading site anonymously, she could escape criticism from the peanut gallery and still get to blog all she wants about the wonders of tiny houses and shitting in white buckets.

    Nicole pretty much has everything she set out to have.

    The bigger question now…. is why doesn't it make her happy?

  41. Horse expert for 50+ years and you think this horse is 6? Did you see how bad her back sways down?

    If a young horse and yes 6 is young for a horse has a back like that then there is a problem a big problem.

    Sorry but we can not go by what Ma says as she does not know crap about horses or she might have been going on what she was told when they bought it. There are people who lie like hell when selling horses. So to a person that knows crap about horses they would believe a horse looking like that is 5.

  42. Nicole might be tired. Any woman would be supporting 11 kids and a dead beat lazy ass.

    She upholds Jojo staying home and not working so I myself do not feel a bit sorry for her. If she tossed Jojo to the curb there would not be any more mouths that they can not afford to feed and her grocery bill might be cut by a third at least. She keeps letting him drag her down.

  43. “What is with the cinder looking blocks in the back ground?”

    The cinder blocks were from a “raised” garden. I remember seeing pictures on Nicole’s blog of bags of potting soil and the kids planting the garden. I think it was two years ago.

  44. So N has legal forms already to file for something… Alleged harrassment? But she has the forms already? Was the horse pic posted to intentionally provoke “harrassment?” so that N can sue for … What? Is the newest income stream going to be frivolous lawsuits? Will Joe be the attorney? Does she know that the loser pays court costs?

  45. Oh, and she better keep the horse healthy. It will be exhibit A in any case against anyone who pointed out that it was sick. A sick or dead horse will immediately invalidate her claims against folks trying to save it.

  46. DeNauglified, exactly. The “idea ” of all of these things is wonderful but in reality, it’s exhausting. She may not even be completely conscious of how badly she wants all of it to disappear so that she can be free but she’s working double time to manifest a new reality. One in which it’s just her as the queen victim, with a couple of adult kids supporting her as she weeps on their shoulders. This has to be carefully planned out to work to her favor. I’m betting she doesn’t even care if the useless sack of shit goes to prison. She’d likely welcome that as part of her new role.

  47. There are young horses that can be high-withered (so it appears as though they’re sway-backed), young horses can be sway-backed. It’s more common in Saddlebreds than Quarter Horses but it’s still not common.

    Anyway – you can also see the loss of condition in her chest. As well as the ribs all the way to the back of her barrel. That’s just not good.

  48. Old time, where is the side view of this horse that shows “her back sways down”? If you are referring to the one where the girl is on her back you cannot discern whether the horse is swaybacked from that photo. The horse could be standing higher in the back than the front, the angle could make it look that way or the mare could be built downhill. You can’t diagnose swayback unless it is a straight side on view.
    I got the age of this horse from FreeJinger.
    The reason I referred to myself as an expert is because several people prefaced what they said with, “I am not an expert but…”. I am an expert having spent 55 of my 65 years riding, breeding, foaling out, showing, raising, training, photographing, doctoring and caring for horses until the ends of their lives.
    I have also been involved in horse rescue and all that entails for 25 years. I know what I am talking about. You can guess all you want about the condition of this mare but until you see her and/or better photos of her, it’s just a guess.

  49. I got the age of this horse from FreeJinger.

    Oh dear me.

    The horse is purported to be five years old, per Nicole.

    The guy that sold us our donkeys said they were six and eight. We took that with a huge grain of salt. Our farrier says that he thinks those ages are close (they are eight years older now), but we wouldn’t have been terribly surprised if we’d been lied to. I can’t tell a horse’s age by looking at teeth and I barely know anyone who can. I am quite sure Nicole can’t either.

    You are correct that we’re dealing with nothing but photos here, but even without all your experience, if that were my animal, I’d be finding out if she was okay, just based on the ribs showing. Nothing else.

    The irony here is that Nicole roundly criticized me and even sought to find out elsewhere if my cow was undernourished because her ribs show. She is a dairy cow. They are supposed to show. If they don’t, the animal is massively obese.

    And the paddock is atrocious, a disaster waiting to happen.

  50. Long time reader, first time posting. I’ve been riding and caring for horses for 21 years. This horse isn’t in dire straits yet, but will be if the same level of (lack of) care continues. There are some bad things in this photo but also some things that look OK and people seem to be picking on prematurely.

    The horse is ribby. Because she has her fluffy winter coat, which can hide a lot, she is probably even thinner than she appears. Her feed needs a serious adjustment. In winter with no shelter or blanket, I’d be feeding her as much good quality hay as she can eat. Blanketing her or offering a place out of the cold/wind will help her save calories she would otherwise use on keeping herself warm. Sweet feed is a junk feed with too much sugar/starch and usually little nutritional value. There are much better and more balanced options available, and a good feed store or feed company rep would be happy to advise. There are also many things you can add to feed (rice bran, soaked beet pulp, oil, alfalfa pellets) to help a horse gain weight, but which ones to choose depend on what else is being fed. Some commercial feeds contain these as ingredients already.

    A 5 year old Quarter Horse in light work should in general not be a hard keeper. Obviously they are all individuals, but in my experience there’s absolutely no reason why this horse should be losing weight if there’s no medical issue and she’s being fed decently. Some posters on BLH suggest that it’s okay or normal for a horse to lose weight in the winter – not so. Adjustments may be necessary for the change in season.

    The coat condition doesn’t concern me yet – winter hair is typically not sleek and shiny like the summer coat, and the horse is dirty in the photo which adds to the dull appearance. However, I hope the mare is regularly groomed to remove the mud and any dead hair. Since we are past the winter solstice and a horse’s winter coat growth is based on daylight, she can begin shedding at any time.

    You can’t tell much about the horse’s demeanor from this photo. She doesn’t look overly depressed to me yet. She is standing in a fairly relaxed manner. Her ears are back but not pinned. This shows her attention is on A. especially if she’s talking to Beauty which we can’t tell from a photo. A. should really be wearing a helmet, especially while draped across an unrestrained horse with no method of control. All it takes is some shrieking kid to pop up and spook Beauty, and A. will be on the ground and possibly being stepped on.

    The paddock is a safety nightmare. Uncapped T-posts can cause severe injuries or impalement. Caps are cheap, so there’s no excuse for that. The wire looks like no-climb horse fencing, which would be safe if properly installed, but it is not properly installed here. The wire is already sagging and appears to have sharp ends and broken wires poking out all over. A good recipe for getting cut, caught up, or poking an eye. The sag also suggests the mare leans on the fence. She is wearing a nylon halter, which will not break in an emergency. It can even break a horse’s neck or strangle them if they get it caught and fall or struggle, or if they catch it on a shoe or get their foot through it. The halter does appear to be fitted okay which at least lessens that last danger. Hopefully she only has it on while A. is working with her and does not wear it while loose in the paddock.

    The ground in there appears to be a trampled muddy mess. Mixed in with the mud appears to be debris including cinder blocks. Standing in mud constantly with no dry areas available can lead to a host of medical conditions including thrush, mud fever/scratches, hoof abscesses, white line disease, all the way up to laminitis and foundering. Being in poor physical condition and out in the elements can also lead to rainrot and other skin conditions, even more so if there is no daily grooming.

    It’s not possible to tell how far the paddock extends to the left of the photo, but it certainly doesn’t look very large based on what is visible. If they plan to keep her in there year round, they will likely need to supplement with hay all year. There won’t be enough grass, and eventually that paddock will be entirely trampled down into a dry lot.

    It’s hard to see the length of the feet in the photo, but after 2 months being there the horse is due or overdue to see the farrier for at least a trim, plus having shoes reset or new shoes if they are keeping her shod. Hopefully this has been done already. Every 6-8 weeks is a typical schedule.

    Teeth should be checked and floated at least annually. The average person cannot tell if they need done just by looking at them. Sometimes you can by feeling them for sharp points, but again not always.

    The old methods of rotational deworming are now going out of style as they aren’t always effective and lead to drug resistance. It’s recommended to take a manure sample to the vet, who will do a fecal egg count and recommend which type of dewormer is necessary based on the actual type and number of worms/their eggs present. I sincerely doubt this has happened.

  51. Let me make myself very clear. I never said the horse was OK. I said you couldn’t tell whether it had dropped weight or whether it was swaybacked based on the photos.
    Most horsewomen/men can tell a horse’s age to within 2-3 years. There are more indications than just the length of teeth.
    Regarding whether a ribby horse is underweight, check out race horses. Their ribs almost always show, they need to be lean. A stallion during breeding season will often look ribby. So can a mare who has recently foaled. An Insulin Resistan or a Cushings horse who is in good weight/health will very often look ribby. They are healthier that way. In other words, ribs that show are not always an indication of poor care.

  52. LMAO most of what is posted at Free Jinger is old news copied from some place else.
    They are just reposting stuff that they are finding posted here or other pages on FB. Sorry to hurt any feelings but that is the truth.

    As for the land the horse is standing on – no it is not even but if you look the land goes on a grade up to the left side of the horse which would be the right side of the picture. The ground is not that uneven in the picture to make the sway back like that. Also to note the girl on the horse is not a overweight girl and she is humped up in the back over the withers, so that is giving me a pretty good idea that the withers are high like the rump. Like I said before if I had a horse that was 5 years old with a back like that I would be worried about it having a deformity. Yes a side view is better to tell but this photo is pretty telling to me along with having had horses of my own for many years. Also to note I am not the only one that thinks this horse is much older than 5.
    Young healthy horses usually do not lose that much weight in such a short amount of time (two months) if being fed right in colder weather. Also to note it has been cold in KY but terribly cold that it would cause a healthy young horse to lose about 150 lbs of weight. An older horse that might be a hard keeper that is a different story. Does not take much cold for them to lose weight especially adding in the change in environment and lack of or decrease in quality of food.

  53. Bea
    My guess is that the fence got bent over by the horse, maybe when she got loose and was running lose a while back. If you look you will see it is held to the post with plastic zip ties. Plastic zip ties with metal fencing on a metal T post is not strong enough to keep a horse with their weight from breaking out.

    Also it is not a very heavy gauged wire, not made to keep a full size horse in. We used that same fencing for a mini horse and it did work but we did not use plastic zip ties. Livestock fencing that is a much heavier gauge would be better. We use livestock fencing for our dogs as we know they could break through that thin fencing not that they are ever left outside alone either. But we wanted to be safe rather than sorry.

  54. Most horsewomen/men can tell a horse’s age to within 2-3 years. There are more indications than just the length of teeth.

    They probably can. They also often lie about it when they are selling a horse, especially when they really need to dump the horse and the buyer is clueless.

    The same situation exists with all livestock. I’m not picking on horse people.

    She is not a race horse. None of those other conditions apply as far as I know. As I’ve said, she might be fine, but if one of my donks had that many ribs showing, we’d be in panic mode. (And I am well aware that donkeys are not horses, but you get the idea.) The only ribs I want to see are on my cattle, and only then because they are Jerseys and supposed to show ribs.

  55. This blog(I am a regular reader) places a lot of emphasis on facts. Where is the evidence this horse has lost weight since it was purchased? Unless there are other photos of this horse what aren’t posted here(I am basing my remarks solely on these photos), there is none. You’ll note that there are no side/belly shots, no full body shots, just neck forward, and rear view. It’s impossible to say what her belly looked like.
    Any vet tech that would state, based on these photos, that this horse has lost 150 lbs in the last two months should not be taken seriously. There is simply no way to tell.
    Sally, regarding the remark that horse sellers lie about the ages of their horses may be true but what does that have to do with this? You have no evidence the Nauglers were lied to, no evidence that Nicole is lying.
    There’s enough criticize about the Naugler’s and their choices without posting things for which we have no evidence.

  56. Experienced horse owner here (not an expert by any means!) – who was just banned (I’m still not sure how I ended up on the FB page but saw a horse pic). In that paddock, that horse should have unlimited hay – horses forage 17+ hours a day – she feeds 1 square bale and probably not in a slow feed net so it gulps down the hay. She’s feeding sweet feed – also not a winter feed for anything but the easiest keeper which this horse obviously isn’t. Not to mention having an unhelmeted rider on a horse with no bridle or halter with lead rope (and I ride helmetless but ALL kids should be required to wear a helmet). Finally, the pic I saw had wood chips or something on the ground of the entire paddock which can be slippery when wet and I believe she said there is not shelter but got banned before I could check. All in all – I found a FB page regarding her family and have requested the county of residence so I can report the mistreatment of the animal. I have a rescued foster and continue to support local rescues. I cannot let this go without making a complaint. Humans can speak up for themselves at some point – the horse needs human champions. Plus she pissed me off by banning me and not taking the advice of experienced horse people (not just me).

  57. Sally, regarding the remark that horse sellers lie about the ages of their horses may be true but what does that have to do with this? You have no evidence the Nauglers were lied to, no evidence that Nicole is lying.

    I am not making any claim at all that Nicole is lying about anything. I doubt she knows enough about horses and their care to even begin to do that. I simply believe she is mistaken about a whole lot. For example, I find it extremely difficult to believe that horse eats an entire square bale of hay daily. She may have meant a flake, not a bale, but one flake isn’t enough hay.

    And I have said repeatedly that I think the horse has lost weight. And that if it were my horse, I would be having her checked out to be sure she is not getting into trouble. I do not know if getting weight back on a horse is as hard as it is to do with a cow, but it’s absolutely brutal with a cow. They can drop 100 pounds in a matter of days and then take two months or longer to put it back on. Maybe that is making me biased. I view weight loss as an emergency situation, unless you’re one of our donkeys and on a weight-loss diet because you’re a big glutton.

    I also know that Nicole would not know what the condition of that horse’s teeth are even if the horse bit her.

    And I know that it’s quite common for newbies to be lied to about the age of livestock. So I take the whole “5 years old” with a big grain of salt, exactly the same way I took the purported ages of our donkeys with a grain of salt.

    What is going on here is experience. We know that animals on the Shitstead tend to have short life expectancies. These are people who cannot keep chickens alive, for pete’s sake. We have a working small farm and generally have about 30 or so animals around here at any given time. And we have a death from time to time. It’s unavoidable (and I’m not including the animals who are butchered for meat). But we don’t have anywhere close to the death rate the Naugs do. So if we’re all a wee bit concerned about the living conditions of that horse, we have reason to feel that way.

  58. Carol just what is your beef? Facts? like FJ is just full of facts! LMAO

    We are entitled to our opinions and to state things as we see them.
    Fact is I think that horse has lost a lot of weight. If it has not in the past two months as you are trying to make it sound then they were stupid as hell to buy a horse that is in that condition. This horse looks worse than some that I have seen rescued from slaughter sales.
    Who the hell would buy a horse in piss poor condition for a teenager and to boot let her waste her money on it. Buying a horse in poor condition is just setting the girl up for heartbreak and failure. Regardless of the condition of the horse Ma and Pa have no knowledge of horses and book/internet learning just does not totally cut it when working with living breathing critters. The girl needs some one who can mentor her but that is not likely to happen as they see nothing wrong just like everything else.

    Did you know Ma asked online when they got the pig how to take care of a pig? They got a damn pig with not knowing shit about how to care for it. Guess what that pig is now dead! If it was not dead there would be pictures of it. In a round about way Ma gave up it was long gone she said she would not discuss what happened to the pig. Sorry but the horse is headed in the same direction.

    If you have been a horse woman for 50+ years and you see nothing wrong with this horse you are blind or playing us. My daughter happened to go to college for equine science and she was taken back that the horse’s condition got so bad in 2 months. She studied horses not just raising, riding or working with them. Studied them in depth more than a horse owner gets. I will take her opinion any day as I know her education over some one who claims to be what ever.

    If Nicole was not lied to then she is lying that damn horse is not 5 years old. If it is then it is sickly or not being taken proper care of. It is not a healthy horse no matter the age with ribs showing like that.

  59. I think but I am not sure, but she and Jabba would not take one bit of advice from all these good people. I do know that these two could not keep the dirt off of a mechanical horse ride without sreaming some sort of persecution

  60. The horse is underweight. Period. I hate the comments about all horses getting ribby and loosing weight over the winter. Bullshit. I have been involved with horses for twenty some years, owned my own for fifteen of those years, and if any horse of mine looked like that I would not call it fine. We regularly winter horses out 24/7 in weather far colder than they would ever get in Kentucky, including pregnant mares, and they never look like that. Hay, hay, and more hay. As much good quality hay as your can get. Free choice being best and a mineral supplement is a must. Free choice clean water and a lot of it. They are called hay burners for a reason. To keep warm in the winter they need a belly full of roughage. Sweet feed is crap covered in molasses.

    If, IF, that mare is getting enough good quality hay and she looks like that then she needs a high fat concentrate. Personally I would feed soaked beet pulp twice a day with oil as a minimum. Not everyone agrees with that but feed store around here only carry the basic so that is what i would have on hand. If I still couldn’t get weight on then the next step would be fecal testing for parasites, having a vet check teeth (a vet, not someone who has never owned a horse before) and a blood panel done. If there was still issues I would treat for ulcers and after that a another full vet work up and scope.

    Also, if my horse was having trouble keeping weight on in the winter they would be wearing a blanket or even two. No point in having them burn fat trying to stay warm when they have no fat to burn.

    I’m so ticked about the condition of that horse I can’t even begin to talk about the pasture except to say NEVER leave a horse out wearing a nylon halter. If they get caught on something like those uncapped posts they can break their neck.

  61. BHL being down is a bit of a shock. Heck who I am in kidding. I do think it’s a bit odd that it’s so close to the last time it was down. It was just down last week.

  62. Guess what that pig is now dead!

    Actually, the pig seems to have simply disappeared. I can’t remember exactly when the pig photo appeared, but our pig has come, lived her whole life, gained approximately 300 pounds (she was tiny when we got her) and been slaughtered and is now in the freezer(s). So that pig would be enormous by now.

    Who knows what happened to it. They may not even know. It might have simply gotten out the way the horse did and fled.

  63. Some advice….

    My family and I have been around horses my whole life, my brother-in-law owns a Racing Barn and my daughter is a large and small animal veterinarian.

    It seems that this horse might be having a couple of problems. Because it does seem like she has experienced some changes in her overall weight. There are many different things that can cause this. But this is something that can be helpful on top of regular feeding to help any horse regain weight. It is called Mash feeding.

    Mix two cups of bran, six cups of mixed grains, four cup of oats, half cup of sugar. Pour two gallons of hot water over the mixture. Mix until it is well blended, let it set until it cools off and mushy. (But still warm) 

    This is an old time horsemen mash. It provides sufficient water intake either during very cold days or after a strenuous workout, that depleted the horse’s system of water to insure health to the depleted digestive tract. Back in the day it was also used mainly for the prevention of colic.
    During or before a strenuous workout, competition, race or long transports, horses often empty their system due to physical or mental stress, which causes the digestive tract to become abnormally depleted.

    The mash should be fed regularly, once or twice per week, on top of regular feeding, watering and hay intake.

    Wishing the little lady luck….anyone can see she loves her horse.

  64. I feel sorry for the horse if there is a problem, and I have to defer to horse experts on that, but my heart also breaks for A. It’s so obvious she loves her horse so much, and probably thinks she has been doing everything right so far. Of course she may not have been, but that is due simply to inexperience on her part, and she shouldn’t feel too badly as long as she finds the right help. Anyone can make innocent mistakes when starting out on a new venture. The ineptness of her parental units on the other hand, and Nicole’s absolute unwillingness to take advice on A’s behalf, is another thing altogether. That is sheer disregard for the animal’s health in favour of not losing face to the greater community. And that…is unforgivable.

  65. @Francesca – I, like others, have to disagree with you. The horse has lost weight and a concerning amount in very short order. Nicole put pics up of the new equine addition on Oct. 23rd and then posted the newest pic yesterday, which means 9 weeks has gone by. It is impossible not to see that this animal has lost weight and muscle mass. Why you are trying to state otherwise is a mystery.
    Sally is very correct about the Naugler track record with animals. They gather animals like they gather children. Everything is on a whim. No clear understanding of what is required for their care. Anyone who tries to offer any sort of helpful advice is called a hater and invariably banned. Nicole posted a chicken pic very recently and commented that she hoped they were mostly hens. She can’t tell the difference between a fucking rooster and a hen. How in the hell could anyone believe that she has any sort of knowledge to care for a high maintenance animal like a horse?
    What pisses me off is that the young girl is about to get her heart broken. Animal Control and likely an investigator from the State Veterinarian’s office are going to be making a visit to the shitstead and they are going to be very unhappy with what they see. I am sure Nicole will be screeching and Joe will have his hands in his pockets and claiming sovereignty and then the police will become involved. Then Nicole will just get pissy and being the callous individual that she is, will deem the horse too much trouble and post another “it better find a home or it dies” statement on her FB page. And A’s heart will be broken. The one thing she likely finds any joy or comfort in will be gone. And Nicole will of course blame the trolls.
    Gawd it makes me furious. Why the fuck didn’t they just get A involved in a local riding program or stable and let her gather all the experience she needed without the responsibility? Oh never mind. Her parents are idiots.

  66. “you can’t tell by the pictures if the horse has lost weight”

    Maybe you can’t. And it’s fine to point out that you can’t. Being honest about one’s abilities is always a good thing. God knows I can’t tell. I wouldn’t pretend that I could, either….so I’m with you there.

    But just because you can’t, and I can’t…… doesn’t mean others can’t.

    For instance, the vet I asked at my family gathering who has been in practice for 24 years (hubby’s sister).

    A vet who spends years tape measuring horses, and actually putting them on scales at the clinic… because she needs to to determine exact weights for exact doses of medications…honest to God…can look at a horse and make a shockingly accurate guess after years of practice.

    Vets are well practiced in using Dr. Henneke’s body condition scale, too. They use it for medical records, dosing information, health certificates, etc. Vets are also in the business of dealing with ill horses. Something ill horses often suffer…that vets are commissioned to document, ad nauseum, with measurements, in detail…is weight loss.

    My hubster says you can observe a horse’s fat stores in six areas: the loin, ribs, tailhead, withers, neck, and shoulders. And YES, you can see these areas in the before and after photos.

    My sis in law looked at those photos, and after wrinkling her brow and looking troubled… said she believes the horse has lost approximately 150 pounds.

    Vets must be accurate about weights to use medications correctly. Sometimes there’s wiggle room, but often there is no wiggle room for error. It’s an extremely important skill, and when in doubt, vets spend YEARS checking themselves with weight tapes and calculators.

    The average horse owner…even a very good owner who has raised horses for 50 years…will not have the skill down to a science. The average owner has no reason for practicing the skill on hundreds of different horses throughout the year….like vets do.

    Clearly there’s no way to factually settle this debate. We don’t know what the horse weighed in the before pics and we can’t weigh it now.

    But given that fact that my sis in law can whip out a bottle of medication and safely tranquilize an injured horse in an overturned trailer on the highway (without killing it)….just by looking carefully at it with her decades of weight-estimating experience…..you’ll forgive me if I trust her judgement over yours….that yes, in fact, it is an acquired skill….and that she can gauge a weight loss estimate from those photos.

    No offense meant. Just politely disagreeing.

  67. Francesca, arguing that visible ribs a non-race horse in a relaxed state is fine based on racehorses is fine and healthy is as faulty. Racehorses are the exception in many ways, but even so, I just spent a good bit of time looking through Google Images at racehorses, and the only two I found with any ribs showing was one horse mid-race, whose ribs were nowhere near as prominent, and a retired horse who had a hint of two ribs showing.

    Beauty isn’t a stallion in breeding season. She hasn’t recently foaled. If she’s insulin resistant or has cushings, then she’s even more fucked.

    Try again coming up with excuses for that horse to have such visible ribs.

    Given the Nauglers’ solid history of failing to keep animals alive, I think it’s very safe to say that that horse is going to go the way of the pig.

  68. Francesca wrote, “Any vet tech that would state, based on these photos, that this horse has lost 150 lbs in the last two months should not be taken seriously.”

    It was a veterinarian who was concerned simply from seeing the photos. Not a vet tech.

    Denauglified (from the Bitches and Crackers thread) wrote, “I showed folks at my Christmas gathering today the pics from October and the pics today. These folks are serious horse people. One is a veterinarian, others have raised and kept horses for generations.

    General consensus among the folks here…is that the horse is thinner than they are comfortable with, but not dangerously thin yet…..but that she has lost an alarming 150 pounds since the pictures in October.”

    I was a vet tech for years and I see a loss of muscle mass in her chest, too many ribs showing throughout her barrel and she’s starting to look less rounded overall. Winter has just begun.

    Also, I did NOT see it in the photos but I want to mention something else. Remove the baling twine entirely when you give it to her. Don’t let it fall to the ground to become a dangerous snack, or a dangerous snare. You know what horses do when their foot is entrapped by something 99% of the time? They panic. Their spleen dumps a HUGE amount of red blood cells into their system and they struggle to take off. If she gets her foot entangled in wire, or baling twine or a cattle guard, it’s a bad thing. So at the very least – remove the baling twine. If you haven’t, start immediately and go out to the paddock and look for every piece that has fallen and gotten worked into the soil.

    I’ve used round bales that had many strands and I could have bet money I cut and removed them all but there was one or two on the bottom that had slid underneath when I was moving it with the tractor and the hay spike. I go out now and sometimes find a strand and just start pulling. At least with the small square bales (50 pounds or less) it’s a lot easier to know you didn’t accidentally leave a strand behind.

  69. They probably traded or sold the pig. Maybe they needed the money from selling him.

    It would be smart to trade some dog grooming for a pig, that they traded for some hay and rabbits or food.

    But what is strange, is that Nicole doesn’t bother to share any actual homesteading ideas or experience with her readers. Where are the success or failure articles about cooking on a wood stove, raising kids and livestock?

    Many people would like to learn how to stay happy and organized in a tiny home. She has a following that worships how she raises her kids and is yearning to experience her lifestyle and she just keeps silent.

  70. But what is strange, is that Nicole doesn’t bother to share any actual homesteading ideas or experience with her readers.

    The only thing strange about it is that her followers don’t seem to get what is going on. She has no actual “homesteading ideas” because she has no actual “homestead.” They live in squalor in a garden shed on shitty land.

  71. N refuses to say what happened to the pig. I think if it ran off or was traded she would say so. There is no fault in those things. IMO, that pig is another BLH casualty.

  72. I hope they ate the pig, personally. That’s what pigs are for on a homestead. Or at least they traded the pig for something else they needed and someone else ate it. Feral pigs can be a big problem.

  73. I hope they ate the pig, personally.

    They didn’t. A pig is a big animal to butcher. It makes butchering a goat look like nothing. There is a lot of meat. What would they do with that much meat all at once? Even that large family couldn’t eat it all before it went bad.

    Who knows what happened to it.

  74. I’m reading these awesome suggestions about vets, farriers etc and thinking to myself that the Naugler parents couldn’t be arsed to get medical attention for their injured child so I can’t see them springing for a vet or a farrier. They are a disgrace!

  75. @Bea: If she were, she probably wouldn’t be infamous. Even if the family had ended up squatting on a parcel of half-ruined second-growth forest in Kentucky due to the parents’ persistent financial and social stupidity, if they had been blogging about genuine efforts to pick themselves up and make a better life, they probably would have a favorable media presence and a much fatter bank account. She isn’t providing homesteading tips because she doesn’t have any, because she absolutely refuses to learn anything ever. Meanwhile, her husband is an expert at sitting around and watching other people work . (And being menacing.)

  76. [Admin: Nicole has a business. She grooms dogs. That is it. All. Nothing else. No descriptions of grooming in great detail. Nothing.]

  77. Just random thoughts I’d like to share. Like someone else posted, reading all the information people are offering is very educational and I don’t even own horses any more. It is too bad Nicole doesn’t have the same outlook. The family could be a lot more successful.
    When I first started gardening, I was horrible. I inherited the family gardening curse. I was determined though, so I made a pest of myself asking more experienced people for advice. I made use of the cooperative extension at our local university. Hell, I even attended some FFA meetings at the high school I worked at and asked kids. As a result, I have a garden that feeds us. It is baffling that Nicole won’t do the same. Well not baffling about asking locally because they have alienated everyone but there are still online groups.
    The discussion about body fat on this horse has been interesting as well. My eye saw the weight loss and muscle mass loss immediately. Even if I had never owned horses, I would have seen it because of being a dog musher, hunter and trapper.
    Right now I am parked on the couch and there are 3 dogs on the “dog couch” who are 12 plus years old. They are inside because they do not hold their weight in the winter. It’s simple. No amount of food (high performance kibble, salmon, meat) helps them if they are outside. So they take their stations in here and they maintain body weight.
    I keep a close eye on the rest of our crew in the yard. Not just an eye either. It’s a hands on business. With sled dogs you can see just the definition of the last two ribs, depending on the dog, but there needs to be a healthy layer of fat on the hips and between the hips. My lab is different. She is very athletic but to see a definition of ribs on her would be concerning. Then our stray dog of unknown origin, but who I suspect is part chow, is barrel shaped and you really have to dig through the fur to get to her body. If I feel ribs I up her feed.
    Animals losing weight through the winter means you aren’t feeding enough or well enough or both. The only creatures I see sometimes who lose lbs in the winter are the wild ones. Moose have the hardest time if the snow is deep but unless they are sick or old, it is rare to see a really thin moose. I catch beaver, marten and muskrat and have never caught a skinny animal even in the coldest of times. Rabbits are always plump. Even the squirrels are chubby. And yes we eat them all except for the marten, which are fed to the dogs.
    Nicole needs to get her shit together and provide for that horse so that A’s heart isn’t broken. Maybe an option is to board the animal and A can trade some of the cost in labor. She would learn a great deal and her animal would be well-cared for. I really hope this ends well but I am not holding my breath.

  78. Although my family owned a quarter horse when I was growing up, I know almost nothing about horses. However, our horse did live to be about 25 years old.
    However, I have had several cats over the course of my adult life, and if my cat suddenly lost a significant amount of weight, so that it was noticeable, I would take that cat to the vet immediately. I’m not sure why it should be any different for a horse. Given the fact that the Nauglers don’t believe in vaccinating their own children, or taking them in for medical treatment when they have an injury – I hold out very little hope that their horse will be properly cared for. And that’s not BEC.

  79. Naugler unschooling: kid’s interested in horses, so buy a horse, despite the fact that no one has any prior knowledge of equine care and financially you are struggling horribly and already reliant upon the charity of strangers for your 11 children. When totally dependent creature appears to be physically struggling when viewed by seasoned horse owners and professionals, tell them they are trolls and to STFU. This is the Naugler method of unschooling. Ignorance, irresponsibility and arrogance to an extreme level, is the the lesson for the day.

  80. There seems to be little back and forth comments over these pictures, but I think we all can agree that the land is not suitable to sustain an adult horse.
    There is no quality fiber in the form of pasture, because there is no pasture, no where for this horse to freely graze. When there is no pasture and the horse is not stabled in a barn, hay, clean water and a salt block must available in the makeshift paddock 24/7. As in a ROLL of hay needs to be placed in the paddock which can be extremely expensive if you do not produce your own hay.

    When quality fiber in the form of pasture or hay is not available, there are alternative fiber sources that may add fiber to the diet. The most common are beet pulp, soy hulls, wheat bran, oats and alfalfa pellets or cubes. And any of these can be used in making a Mash.

    However, all these different types of feeds and additives are extremely expensive as well, maybe the young lady should consider paying to have her horse stabled at another farm during winter months which would be cheaper. She might could do some farm work in exchange for stabling, feed, water and hay.
    It is unlikely her parents would help with any of the expenses or if a Veterinarian is needed for any health issues the horse might have. Nicole made it pretty clear the horse is totally her young daughters responsibility.
    Personally, I think that way of teaching responsibility is designed to fail. I’d never let my daughter buy a horse and expect that it is her total responsibility and financial responsibility alone.
    Hell, that is not even fair to the horse !!!

  81. I know cats and dogs are different but that’s what I’m used to.

    I have a cat that would get sick with almost any kind of cat food I fed her. Finally I got my cats all natural cat food (pure balance, same brand I feed my dogs) and she no longer gets sick. I also switched to all natural cat treats.

    We just upped our 5 month old puppy food intake. His ribs were still showing and he was obviously still hungry. A few days later you can’t see his ribs anymore.

    Like I said I know cats and dogs are different from horses. I’ve never owned a horse. But if I did have a horse and seen its ribs like that I’d be calling the vet ASAP.

    The vet in Hardinsburg takes care of all kinds of animals and does house calls for horses and cows.

  82. I stand by everything I said…you cannot tell from these photos whether or not that horse has lost weight. With the exception of a couple of posters, the assumptions made here regarding my statement range from ridiculous to wildly inaccurate.

    Frankly, you guys are sounding more and more like Nicole’s buddies. Both websites share a herd mentality that is refreshingly missing from FreeJinger.

  83. . Both websites share a herd mentality that is refreshingly missing from FreeJinger.

    Francesca, trot on back over to FJ and tell them how horrible we are. Please.

    Look, it’s fine for you to come here and express your opinion. But your opinion is only one of dozens. You do not get to establish “truth” for the rest of us. You say, hiding behind your fake name, that you have raised horses for 50 years, so you’re an expert, so we should all just bow down to your lofty wisdom. But that isn’t how this works. There are other people here who have raised horses as well, and they don’t agree with you. Furthermore, there is at least one vet who has weighed in on this and she doesn’t agree with you either.

    That does not make them right, nor does it make you wrong.

    But their opinions are every bit as valid as yours. And you do not get to march in here, having made no other comments in the entire lifetime of this blog, and start denigrating everyone who disagrees.

    If FJ is “refreshing,” by all means, GO.

  84. As in a ROLL of hay needs to be placed in the paddock which can be extremely expensive if you do not produce your own hay.

    Well, square bales are fine. We used them for several years because we didn’t have the equipment or the storage space to deal with big round bales.

  85. Some nonexhaustice lists to compare Sally’s blog and FJ…

    Things that are allowed on the FJ Naugler threads:

    Nonsequiturs
    Asskissing of the admins
    Bashing Sally, Al, or anyone else who has had direct contact with the Nauglers

    Things that aren’t allowed:

    Criticism of Joe and Nicole
    Commentary about Joe and Nicole
    Anything about Joe and Nicole

    Things that are allowed on other FJ forums:

    Criticizing minor children’s appearance
    Assumptions that people are beating their children
    Tracking minor celebrities’ flight paths
    Discussions of minor celebrities’ livelihoods and businesses outside television/the internet
    Discussions about minor children by name so their commentary will follow the children well into the future

    Things that are allowed on Sally’s blog:

    Honest legit discussion about homesteading
    Information about farms, livestock, composting, canning, cheese, homeschooling, etc.
    Discussion about Nicole and Joe and their antics
    Picking apart Naugler statements and actions to figure out the truth
    Countering Naugler lies and misinformation
    Nonsequiturs

    Things that are NOT allowed on Sally’s blog:

    Criticizing minor children’s appearance
    Assumptions that people are beating their children
    Tracking minor celebrities’ flight paths
    Discussions of minor celebrities’ livelihoods and businesses outside television/the internet
    Discussions about minor children by name so their commentary will follow the children well into the future

  86. I am just really glad that the horse isn’t dead yet. Even if it keels over tomorrow, Nicole has exceeded my expectations.

  87. I wasn’t gonna comment on this topic because it’s outside my area of expertise. I read as many comments as I could stand and then just scrolled to the bottom.

    Nicole Naugler will not and has no interest in shelling out any money on the damn horse. Even if the horse was given to the girl, it was a reckless and foolhardy decision to allow her to have it. It’s not a goldfish in a bowl or a hamster in a cage and everyone who has taken the time to offer advice and solutions has wasted their time.

    Dead horse walking.

  88. Thank you Sally for putting Carol errr I mean Francesca in her place.

    Funny how they do so much bitching about your blog there but come here to get information that they can not get on their own to post there.

  89. Don’t most of us hide behind ‘fake names’ on the internet?

    Of course, *I* don’t, the totally real Bystander family just has a history of strange and unusual first names.

    😉

  90. I post both here and at FJ. Francesca speaks for herself alone and not for FJ, which is made up of posters with widely different backgrounds, opinions, and life experiences (like here).

  91. “I stand by everything I said,……. the assumptions made here regarding my statement range from ridiculous to wildly inaccurate.

    Frankly, you guys are sounding more and more like Nicole’s buddies. Both websites share a herd mentality….”

    Hmmmmm….lets think about this Francesca.

    Sally published your post, even though your opinion was contrary to that of many others. She welcomed your diversity of opinion. That is NOT something you will ever experience at Nicole’s site.

    Accusing others of “herd mentality” is a very popular strategy among Nicole’s crowd. Have you noticed that? Do you think it’s an effective means of convincing people that your opinion is more accurate/valuable? Does it work for Nicole?

    Do you feel victimized that no single person is lauded as a supreme expert here? Forgive me, but that reminds me an awful lot of how Nicole’s pages work. I’m quite relieved Sally doesn’t go down that path! Free speech and polite discourse are awfully important to me.

    Also, your reaction of “Your opinion about my opinion is ridiculous and inaccurate!”…is awfully familiar as well. Most people don’t consider themselves victims of other’s malice, just because they don’t share the same view. Most people can simply accept that everyone’s view is informed by their particular experience and sense of logic. They don’t need to force others to conform to their opinion to feel they’ve been treated fairly.

    One of the most outstanding hypocrisies of Nicole’s behavior, in my opinion…..is that she expects others to conform to her views…by force if necessary….while preaching nonconformity! LOLOLOLOL. The pure stupid irony of that could slap her upside the head…HARD….and she still wouldn’t acknowledge it.

    On Sally’s page…we’re allowed to have polite opinions about other people’s opinions. Hell, we’re even allowed to disagree completely in a respectful way. That makes this page DRASTICALLY different than Nicole’s pages, thank goodness!

    I’ve even disagreed with Sally a time or two and she hasn’t even doxed me or threatened to call my employer yet:)

  92. Even if that poor child could pay for a vet visit, she can’t afford the ongoing cost of caring for the horse. N says the children earn their own money, but that’s just for doing slave labor for her. What if she decides that only certain children have access to the dog washing and bow making jobs? Do the stay at home kids still earn money? What if N needs the money. Do the kids work for free? Basically, it seems that these kids earn money based on their mother’s needs, not their own. N controls the purse strings. IMO of course.

  93. Nicole wrote that her daughter had done a lot of research prior to getting that horse and it was her choice, etc. I’m certain her daughter did just that BUT Nicole doesn’t mention her sources. Equus has been around for a LONG time. My mother has ALL the Equus magazines that were ever published as she subscribed when it was just getting off the ground. There is a lot of good stuff in the early editions but guess what? Things have changed. So you read the newer editions. That doesn’t mean N’s daughter couldn’t learn a lot of good stuff from the earlier ones. I’ve had horses in my life for 40 years and I’m still learning from others as well as the horses themselves.

    Listen, a lot of people do a lot of research prior to getting an animal, or a car, or a piece of land but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a learning curve. The difference between having learned animal husbandry through a book and doing it for your own self can be eye-opening. It’s where the rubber meets the road.

    So I hope that her daughter has somehow figured out that something isn’t quite right and yes, I really hope that she finds someone who will BOARD that her horse for her in exchange for sweat equity and some money. Good field board will have safe fencing, good water available, good supplemental hay, shelter(s) and some even provide some sort of concentrate but she’ll have to either use what they offer (which may not be suitable to Beauty) or pay additional to have her receive more of it (if it is suitable for her mare), or pay extra to have them feed her mare with HER feed despite purchasing and making it available. ‘Cause it’s a pain in the ass to have 15 different horses with 15 different brands of feed. Hell, it’s a PITA when it’s only six horses.

    But what a good boarding situation will have is people who have experience taking care of horses or livestock. There will be people who are NOT family members and their daughter can enlarge her social circle still further. The kid may even make a friend or two her own age and start to have sleepovers, etc. It’s not too late for her to enjoy her childhood.

  94. Isn’t that doxxing?

    Come on. That’s stretching it a bit. If the information is widely available, it’s not doxxing. Furthermore, a first name tells us nothing at all.

    Frankly, I don’t consider what Nicole did to me (posting my address) doxxing. It was silly and she thought it would frighten me or intimidate me, but it wasn’t doxxing.

    Doxxing is what she did when she posted that police report from the fender bender and it included the SSN of the neighbor. That’s not publicly available information. (Actually, I have a big problem with LE giving her a copy of that police report containing somebody else’s SSN.)

    People here are welcome to use screen names. I don’t mind. But I don’t guarantee that nobody will find out/figure out who you are and reveal it.

  95. Sally said:

    So, you’re giving permission to call people out using the names they use on other boards or FB? Because I feel that’s important to know about this blog.

    I know who quite a few people are here; I can connect them to their real names, or FJ names, or they have told me in confidence who they post as. I would never call them out by anything other than the name used here (even if I don’t agree with them, or just don’t like them) and I expect the same in return (no I’m not Carol, or Francesca, nor do I know either ‘person’).

    I find it interesting that someone who goes by the name “Old time farm girl” has now associated your posters with other names three different times in blog comments (that I have seen).

    Maybe ‘do unto others’ would be appropriate here.
    But honestly, I’m not up for that. It’s juvenile and I don’t condone it.
    But keep on keepin’ on. It’s your blog.

  96. Sonja says:
    December 28, 2016 at 9:18 am
    “Carol”? = Francesca

    Isn’t that doxxing?

    Doxxing to recognize an almost verbatim comment posted by an alternate username on another website? A website that the user in question referred to? Please. Talk about BEC.

  97. So, you’re giving permission to call people out using the names they use on other boards or FB? Because I feel that’s important to know about this blog.

    You’re making a mountain out of a molehill.

    I told you already. You’re free to use a screen name. I am not guaranteeing you that nobody will figure out who you are. It’s not my fault if they do. I am not responsible to maintain your privacy. You are.

    Do you understand how many comments come through this blog? I have to monitor every single one of them and evaluate what, if anything, to moderate. I have an actual life and it isn’t on this blog. I have a limited amount of time to spend here.

    I find it interesting that someone who goes by the name “Old time farm girl” has now associated your posters with other names three different times in blog comments (that I have seen).

    Then you are keeping better track of this than I am. Maybe you should just blog yourself?

    Look, I am quite sure that from time to time, I am not fair. Sometimes I am probably harder with moderation than other times. I am totally aware of that. Sue me. Nicole is. Maybe you could join in on her “lawsuit.”

  98. The family may want to investigate using a mesh hay net too. I would go with one that has 1 1/2″ wide openings so she can get at the hay but not make such a big mess nor eat so slowly that it’s counterproductive. If they do that, I suggest that someone install a POST (dig down at least 3 feet), tamp as you back fill it (it should ring like iron) and then you can install two round eye screws. One for the top, one for the bottom so it doesn’t get wrapped around. Another nice thing to have (but it’s pricey) would be a Nibblenet slow feeder. There are models that can be fed on the ground so no need to sink a post into the ground in the wintertime.

  99. Tekla said: “Listen, a lot of people do a lot of research prior to getting an animal, or a car, or a piece of land but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a learning curve. The difference between having learned animal husbandry through a book and doing it for your own self can be eye-opening. It’s where the rubber meets the road.”
    That reminds me: I grew up in a large family and was used to babies and little kids. Then when I became pregnant in my 30’s, I read many books about pregnancy, babies, early childhood, etc. Thought I was prepared. Ha ha ha ha haaaaaa!!! There is no shame in not knowing everything about a subject. Where the problem arises is when a person refuses to take advice from those more knowledgeable, because they think that would make them look bad. Admitting you were mistaken, or downright wrong, is a humbling experience. But no one knows everything, and everyone makes mistakes sometimes. Facing up to that head on is the adult thing to do. Too bad Nicole’s ego is so fragile, she seems unable to ever admit she was wrong about anything.

  100. I have been having a fun time arguing with them on the Little Trolls FB page. I don’t really care if people know my real name or not. I have nothing to hide. Hay nets (we purchased one for round bales and it is saving us a ton in wasted hay = $ – LOVE it!), square/round bales (1 round bale lasts our 3 horses 7 days at $40 per bale – 26 round bales) (200 square bales per horse at $6 each per winter – we have grass pastures for spring/summer/fall), grain that has actual nutrition (we spend about $12 per week on grain and we feed Blue Seal, alfalfa pellets and an Omega supplement), vet care (most vets have at least a $50 farm call, exam is $75, coggins – $50) – we do a once a year vet check except for emergencies and do our own shots, fecals ($10 twice a year) because rotational worming has been proven to create wormer resistant worms, farrier ($40 farm call and $25 for basic trim) (every 6-7 weeks during the winter and 5-6 weeks during the summer), fly spray ($50 a gallon – we use 1 gallon per horse per summer), halters and lead ropes ($25-40), blankets ($85-100) or adequate run in shelters. All of that is a basic (BASIC!) care list for 1 horse. Many of you have said you have no horse knowledge. Not to be snarky but there it is. Break out the calculators. Basic field board – all expenses paid – $450 per month and they require blankets for winter “shelter” and have to have indoor shelter for winter ice/snow (run-in or stall). I do not know of any local barns that will trade labor for the full board price. Most barn owners do not have the profit margin. This is the information that you do not have when you buy a horse. Each horse is different – we have 3 with very different needs and it’s a constant challenge to meet those needs. And that’s with 15 years experience which makes me a “newbie” horseowner in the horse world – and still constantly learning and seeking knowledge.

  101. I have livestock. We live where the temps get below zero one day and +50 f the next. Rain, snow, sleet, freezing rain, winds, etc. I have a run in shed that fits my whole menagerie. Horse, cows, goats, etc.

    People that say “horses, cows, farm critters lose weight in the winter” are full of it! It’s only December!! Winter has just started! My horse is fat & sassy. She goes into winter full and leaves winter full. We feed 3 square bales a day between 2 heifers and my pony sized beast (who is 10.5 yo). They are full and eat all day long. My pony beast foundered 2 years ago – but she’s an air fern. No concentrates for her.

    Mine has a white, wooly coat and loves to roll multiple times a day. If she’s not curried 5+ times a day – she is a mud ball. But winter coats are not as shiny as summer.

    If Beauty is only being ridden on short, easy rides – she can loose condition – If she came from some one that used her for ranching or rode long trail rides & kept her in good condition.

    I sincerely think she is 15 + years old. There is no way that mare is only 5-6. Her body shape says different. She’s definitely has less muscle tone – and with a fluffy coat, you should not see every rib.

    To de-worm correctly you MUST have a fecal done. You have no idea what internal parasites you are dealing with until you do. My vet charges $12 to do a sample. Just buying a tube of de-wormer does not always work.

  102. Horses have been my life since I was a child. I turned that love into a career that has taken me all over the U.S. and abroad. I have a degree in Equine Science with an emphasis on reproductive management (semen collection, transported semen, artificial insemination), mare and foal care. I also own (actually, they own me!) my own horses. My mantra for all my animals (and for my clients animals) is that I want them to be “Happy and Healthy”! Those two things go hand in hand. Even with all the knowledge I have been fortunate enough to attain over the years, Nicole would never take advice from me or anyone else.
    When they first got the horse, I cringed thinking about the future for that beautiful animal (and maybe even cried a few tears because I have had to witness too many abuse cases).

    Why would they properly care for a horse when they don’t even care for their children properly?
    And this is just my opinion, but I doubt those children are all happy and healthy.

  103. Francesca, I don’t follow any herd mentality. Sally and I have butted heads a few times and agreed several. I don’t always agree with other commenters, and sometimes I do.

    This time, I am firmly in the same camp as the rest. That horse has lost weight, and is in a bad situation. Not being dire yet doesn’t mean we should turn a blind eye.

    Let’s say she hasn’t lost weight. She is still UNDERweight, an I’m still waiting for you to come up with an acceptable reason for a healthy horse to be underweight that applies to a non-racehorse, non-recently-foaled-mare, non-stallion.

  104. Sonja, how do you know Carol is Carol’s real name? Or Francesca? If they’re the same person, how do you know she is even a she? Connecting Francesca to Carol tells us literally nothing aside from maybe they’re the same person posting on two related forums.

    Makes Me Think Twice, Sally allowing people to connect commenters here to FreeJinger doesn’t mean she condones it, per se. She has said she’ll approve comments that aren’t abusive and don’t contain the names of the minor children. I’m far more concerned about how far FreeJinger goes.

  105. Myohmy, I see the “mirror blog” just fine. If you can’t I suspect you might have been blocked. There are ways around to being blocked….

  106. I still say you can’t tell from this one picture. What I do know of horses, having been around them my whole life, buying, selling, trading, training, riding, showing & just plain loving horses is that horses take up to six months to adjust to new digs. I am very curious to know what it’s former set up. This set up is the shits, and anyone can see that by the picture. Was the mare around other horses?? If it was & had a decent set up, she is going to have a hard time adjusting. The stress from the new surrounds, noise (generators are very loud, don’t know how close she is to it, and can put any horse on edge), no other horses, the feed (can’t believe that she is eating the same quality as before), water access (really, who is hauling in all that water????) and even how much mucking is the girl doing. The ears do look stress. Usually when a horse is listening to the rider, one ear will be back, the one that the side of the speaker is on, the horse has both ears back, it could be there were kids in the background being noise.
    Whenever we get a new horse we make sure to know what kind of feed, bedding, etc that it has been treated to. It makes the adjustment period much easier for the horse. You just can’t buy a horse bring it home to a half ass set up & think everything is going to be ok. It doesn’t work that way. Too bad Al couldn’t help them out.

  107. Can’t help but think to myself…does any of this really matter?

    My gut feeling about this situation hasn’t changed from it’s inception: that’s a dead horse walking.

    When it’s not a priority to feed you kids anything better than beans and rice and dented canned goods….getting the horse decent food is not going to be a priority.

    When providing shoes for your children’s feet is not a priority…..providing foot care for your horse is not going to be a priority.

    When your kid’s oral hygiene is not a priority and you don’t take them to the dentist……having a horse’s teeth floated once a year is not going to be a priority.

    If letting your kid take a shit in a bucket and then spreading it around their play yard is good enough for your children (who also play in goat feces), chances are pretty good no one will stress about the sanitary conditions the horse is enduring.

    If protecting your kids from jagged metal, rusty nails and objects to trip on and break a leg on isn’t important to you……it’s not going to even occur to you to consider your horse’s safety.

    If your kids are found wandering alone miles from home and this doesn’t concern you overly, chances are pretty good you’re not going to care much if your horse gets loose.

    Horse is screwed. Kids are screwed.

    State isn’t going to help the horse, and it isn’t going to help the kids.

    Sorry, Beauty. You deserved better.

    You, too, kids.

  108. Everyone arguing about the horse is just what NN wants. She wants EVERYONE talking about her and saying things so she can twist them and say we are putting her family and ‘business’ at harm.

  109. If your kids are found wandering alone miles from home and this doesn’t concern you overly, chances are pretty good you’re not going to care much if your horse g

    This is a stretch. The child in question was walking down the road maybe a mile from the Shitstead. Obviously, too far away to have “wandered” there, but not “miles.”

  110. Must be something wrong with my PC. I can see it on my other devices. Who knows.

    What sort of screen are you seeing? Does it say anything?

  111. I worry about the horse, but I also wonder who is taking care of the shop cat, shop rabbit, shop fish while she is homesteading this week.

  112. “What sort of screen are you seeing? Does it say anything?”

    This is what I get when I go there.

    Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/content/p3pnexwpnas15_data01/18/3673118/html/wp-content/object-cache.php on line 1328

  113. This is the message I get when I try to access the other blog.
    Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/content/p3pnexwpnas15_data01/18/3673118/html/wp-content/object-cache.php on line 1328

    Nicole’s blog is the only one I have any trouble accessing, and I read several blogs. I can’t imagine that there is anyway to have banned me from it as I have never interacted there.

  114. There is a problem with her, not you. It’s due to the code in her copy of WordPress. There is no workaround. She’s the only one who can fix it.

  115. MyOhMy wrote, “Your mirror blog (myblessedlittleblog) is down. Guess Nikki forgot to pay the bill.”

    Wouldn’t be the first time Nicole didn’t pay a bill.

  116. memoratus in aeternum – sadly, I agree with you. The State of Kentucky apparently does not have the funds, or perhaps the leadership, to ensure that children and animals are treated decently by parents/owners. The shitstead is where animals go to suffer quietly and then sometimes, die. Nicole posted a short vlog about minimalistic living, and showed her and Joe’s bed on a frame, and some shelves containing her worldly goods. She failed to show where all the rest of the kids sleep in that tiny garden shed. She failed to show where each child has his or her own cubby, basket or bin for their personal possessions. Of course she did, because then even her dumbest and most ardent leg humpers might stop for a minute and think – WTH? Where does the dog sleep? Does it have a shelter, or does it too come into the over-crowded, stinky shed?
    One can only hope that as the children reach adulthood, one by one they find a way to escape their shitty parents and their shitty shed. (Perhaps if they could contact their maternal grandmother, she might even help them out.)

  117. I figured she must have missed paying the bill or something. LOL I don’t often go there so it’s no real biggie for me. 🙂

  118. TheSkyIsFalling, at this point, unless the kids ask for help and JoCole agree, others stepping in and offering to help would likely to more harm than good. I suspect those kids have been made to fear offers of help so much that Al or anyone else walking onto the land to offer to help would be a safety-risk. The Nauglers, as a whole unit, are undesirable to have around, and you can bet Nicole makes sure the kids know so that everyone else can be the bad guys. Why would those kids trust Al or anyone else making an offer to help that it’s just an offer to help? Remember, to Nicole, EVERYONE is a spy wanting to hurt her and the kids. Do you really think the kids have all evaded that thinking when they are kept uneducated on purpose and they’re socially neglected?

    The depth of her and Joe’s fuck-ups are so much deeper than I think any of us really consider. Those kids may as we be kept locked in an attic with occasional supervised visits to town before being confined back to the attic with a bucket and a can opener.

  119. Actually, the attic would probably have more space, insulation, heating from the house below, and no witnessing filthy parents grunting on each other.

  120. “Those kids may as we be kept locked in an attic with occasional supervised visits to town before being confined back to the attic with a bucket and a can opener.”

    It’s sad that the life depicted in a V.C. Andrews novel could be interpreted as an improvement for the kids. Even in passing. I read a few of those way back when and I recall being fairly shocked by what was going on as a young teen. I can only imagine how upset I would be by them now.

    “The only thing Andrews’ books have in common with today’s most popular YA novels is the theme of survival, by any means necessary. But Flowers in the Attic doesn’t take place in a dystopian future; its drama unfolds in the attic of a mansion filled with anger, lies, incest, child abuse, and murder (did anyone who read that book ever look at powdered-sugar donuts the same?).” Cheryl Eddy

    Yeah, there are times I’m surprised at what I was able to check out of my local library when I was a kid. Lot of weird shit went down in her books.

  121. Netflix’s has a documentary called, “Minimalism” I watched it the other day. The guy who started this movement and the is featured in this documentary actually has a house, a kitchen, a bathroom, running water, electric…the whole nine yards.
    After watching this documentary I would really like to get ahold of this guy and ask him if he would read Sally’s Blog and see what he thinks about the Naugler’s being so-called Minimalist.
    I do not think the guy was meaning for people or families to go to such extremes like the Naugler’s have or put children through such hardships.
    Even in the ” Tiny House” movement these small homes are built with all the comforts of a house. Like running water, a kitchen, a bathroom, DC and Solar Power. Off Grid and real homesteaders even have several of these amenities as well.

    I’m sick and tired of these people claiming to be, “A large radical rational faith driven quasi unschooling off grid wilderness homesteading family living a back to basics minimalist life style.”
    It is nowhere near BASIC MINIMALIST if you watch the Netflix’s documentary from the very guy who started this so-called movement. He has a fucking BATHROOM and a hell of a lot more !!!

    The V-Blogging she made just made my heart sick for those children. Our Hunting Cabin that sets at the head of the holler in the middle of nowhere down by the creek has more shit in it than that. And has a running water, a bathroom, small kitchen, wood stove and even electricity.

    The Family Courts in Breckenridge County needs to wake up and do something for these kids !!!

  122. Tekla
    Ironically several times during this train wreak my mind has entered the world of the V.C. Andrews novel “Flowers in the Attic.”
    As the old saying goes, ” You never know what really goes on behind closed doors.”
    So the mind wonders from time to time about what life is really like for those kids. Especially after hearing what Alex’s concerns where and what he had to say to the courts.

    There is a movie called, “A Home Of Their Own” that really hits this train wreck head on. It stars Kathy Bates and was made several years ago. But it has a happy ending, which I don’t see happening in this particular situation. But it does remind me of how the children are always trying to build something while their father does NOTHING.

    Even just today, my husband came to me knowing my heart was heavy and asked if there was anyway we could help these kids? He wanted to write a check and get it over and done with, he feels real sorry for them. When he asked me what we could do to help these kids….I just lost it !!!

    My husband is one of the greatest men I’ve even known, he has a soft heart for kids and is a family type man. I’m so thankful to have him in my life in more ways than I can ever possibility count.
    But I had to set him down and explain every little detail about this situation.
    He reads Sally’s Blog from time to time and like me just loves her gift of words. But he can’t keep up with all the Naugler drama or this whole mess. He is a very busy man so I have to fill him in from time to time.

    I told him, “After being a Child Advocate for over 15 years this is the first time I’ve realized there is just no way in hell I’m giving up on this case, no matter the cost, all this suffering has to end for these children.”
    My gut is telling me there is something wrong.
    This case is not going down by the CPS books or by KRS Law. Nicole bitches about the state, but what she does not realize is the favors she has been handed or given, or being entertained by the Judge, and or is being OVER LOOKED !!!
    So starting in 2017, our group will be filing and paying for full complaints with the Judicial Qualifications Commission on the Judge in Breckenridge County, Kentucky.

    Someone needs to be held accountable for these children’s suffering….it is against the LAW for him to do nothing !!!

  123. More random thoughts. As my husband and I prepare to build a new, small, one bedroom cabin this summer, I am already painstakingly going through our 700 sq ft home and hauling stuff to the transfer site. Trash goes in the dumpsters, but usable stuff is placed in the recycling area for others who can make use of it. Our new mantra for our cabin will be, if we bring something new in, something old goes out. I learned this from a dear friend’s parents many years ago when they moved from a comfortable, small, middle-class home to a beautiful little trailer in a lovely retirement park. I have already started to do this with books. I am trading in some books, but also sending others to friends and judging by the response, it has been the right thing to do!
    When I came to Alaska, my entire life fit into a dozen Rubbermaid totes – a dozen totes for me. All the things I needed and things that made me happy. No dramatic sacrifices. That excluded the sled dog stuff of course. Being a minimalist does not mean hardship or sacrifice actually.
    When I married and hubby and I bought our property (paid for in 2 1/2 years because we both worked our asses off), our “stuff” expanded a bit. It’s easy to do. But now, as we are in the beginning stages of preparing for the cabin build, it’s time and it’s satisfying to get rid of stuff. However we aren’t making sacrifices to the minimalist gods. We have lots of good things. Books. Photos in frames. Clothes. Computer. Uber comfortable recliners. Small indoor greenhouse. Dishes for us and company. Cookware. Stove. Fridge. Etc. We are happy and comfortable.
    It was very telling the Nicole only showed her stuff, because, well she really only cares about herself. If I had never heard of her or JoJo, I would have assumed that it was just her, hungry hippo and the baby in her family.
    I was waiting for her to really show the world, and her leghumpers, the squalor her children lived in. You know, for example, the space that she and JoJo share is the space half of her children sleep in. All together. No privacy. The vlog confirmed there is no insulation so they are wasting wood. What the fuck does the hungry hippo do all day exactly?
    Just like the word “homesteading”, Nicole is now choosing “minimalist” so her leghumpers can oooh and aahhh. In truth though, Nicole has no idea what being a minimalist means, because she has not moved beyond her stupid memes.

  124. So starting in 2017, our group will be filing and paying for full complaints with the Judicial Qualifications Commission on the Judge in Breckenridge County, Kentucky.

    Oh, fiddle. I am so tired of “groups” that are going to do this and going to do that. They’re going to make films. They’re going to file papers. They’re going to file lawsuits.

    JUST GOD DAMNED DO IT.

    When people threaten to do stuff, when they loudly announce that they “almost” wrote a check, that they are going to file this or that, mostly they are full of shit. People who actually do stuff just do it. I didn’t get on the internet and announce that I was starting a blog. I just did it.

    Furthermore, quit, just QUIT implying that there is in incest going on. You have absolutely no evidence of anything like that. You’re just making that up, and it’s a very serious thing to just make up. Nicole is already threatening to sue me, but in the face of that, you dare to come on here and make accusations, very thinly veiled, like that.

  125. She just posted an article about a NICU and all the premature babies in there that were due to be born in 2017. Her comment reads: “One of the most common reasons for induction”. It is obvious that she did not read the article. She is implying that the babies were induced and now in NICU because the doctors wanted to party on New Year’s Eve. It’s kinda hilarious because the article is actually about the excellent care the babies receive in this world class NICU and how very sick and fragile these babies are. It also centres around a wee boy born very premature due to spina bifida.

  126. @Peg: I could never do the “throw away an old thing when you bring a new thing in”. I love my books way to much for that. Just today I cashed in a book coupon and bought a set six gorgeously bound Dickens. Still set my back €99 but so worth it. Reading Bleak House in my brick house with two well fed cats as company.

  127. Thank you soooo much for saying that Sally!!!!!!!!!! I have been thinking the same thing for months now. There have been so many things threatened but no action being taken. When someone says they are going to make a “documentary”, they are going to file paperwork or whatnot and then do not do it, then that person solidifies Nicole’s statements of being bullied and harrassed. If you have the power to file paperwork, if you have the ability to file paperwork or whatnot, THEN JUST DO IT!!!!!!!! When you announce you are going to do something ahead of time it gives the Naugler’s a chance to hide evidence or create their own spin. When what you say you are going to do xyz, and then do not do it, it just weakens the ability of those that actually have the means to actually help the kids. So please people stop making idle threats, stop giving the Naugler’s a heads up as to actions you plan to take if you have the ability to do so, JUST STOP.

  128. Nicole posted a video of her bed and personal belonging. It didn’t get very many likes even though it has hundreds of views. Maybe because everyone else is as confused by it as I am. It just brings up so many questions. Help me out here Nicole…

    I am trying to visualize the rest of the home and how the other people fit into it.

    Are there regular chairs or couches to lounge on or does everyone just sit on the bed and floor?

    Now that it’s winter, does the baby get to walk around the cabin or does he always have to stay on the bed because of the stove?

    Does Nicole really keep her dishes put up away from everyone else? If they are left with the other dishes, what would happen?
    Does everyone keep their own dishes where they sleep or is there storage for dishes in the house?

    Does Joe really oversee each child, after every meal, to make sure each child washes his/her dishes and puts them up (wherever they put them)? Or is it just fine if the eight year old eats off dirty dishes?

    Wouldn’t it be easier to cook, eat and wash dishes as a family? And then store the dishes together?

    I don’t think they have an indoor table. Is there room to sit all facing each other (even if there is no table) and eat together as a family? Do they ever have company? Are there extra dishes for friends?

    I don’t think she mentioned anything about Joe’s personal items being on those shelves. Where are his clothes, dishes, personal items? Does he have as much space as her?

    She has a mattress on a plywood platform. Do the kids have mattresses? Or do the kids just lay out blankets on the floor or in the loft?

    Do the kids each have a shelf where they keep their clothes, dishes and toys? Or do they just have a plastic tote? Do they have a place to store blankets during the day so there is room to walk and play? Do they have the same amount of personal space as mom?

    How much space does it take if 8 or so kids each have blankets, a tote of clothes, and a box of personal items?

    Does everyone walk to the potty day and night in the cold? If there is a bucket toilet in the house, where do they keep it and who carries it to the potty to dump it?

    I would want to paint all the wood with glossy, washable paint. It would look brighter and be so much easier to clean.

  129. Sally, I could not agree more with your last post. It’s all bluff to impress. I’m not impressed. In fact, I’m somewhat offended. I work closely with that career field and I don’t know even one person over the years that would brag of their involvement in child welfare much less form a “group” to have hold a judge accountable dealing with just one case without know his/her total history. Nonsense, pure bragging nonsense.
    Good luck Melissa in your heroic endeavors.

  130. Just for clarification – I thought of V.C. Andrews mostly because she was the Queen of Unhappy Endings. Not so much for the other stuff. Maybe I should have referred to the Lemony Snicket series instead which isn’t so macabre.

  131. @Bea: On the BLH Facebook page in the video section is a video taken a year ago called “Our Humble Abode.” There you can see a more all-around look at the shed’s interior. I imagine it’s changed since then (they had a piano -!- I can’t help imagining it ending up as firewood since I’m sure it went wildly out of tune in all the temp and humidity changes), but at that time there was a long desk along a wall, but no table. I guess they have chairs but I don’t remember seeing any; it’s not likely everyone can be seated at once inside unless some sit on the floor.
    Kids sleep in the lofts.
    Regarding the plates, I remember not long ago Nicole mentioned that everyone has and is responsible for his or her own plate, cup, etc. including cleaning and storing them. That sounds weird to me – especially since I couldn’t be sure if the kids had to pay for their own stuff when they picked it out at the store.

  132. There is an ad/post on FB by quaker. This post has one of those 360 images. The still main image, the first you see, is of a mom and daughter in what appears to be a very well clean and organize kitchen. The type of image where you would expect to see everything all nice and tidy.

    The caption is something like don’t judge your life by this little window you see. …and then you can use the 360 aspects of the picture by pan around and see how cabinet doors are open, stacks of papers everywhere, clothing in the middle of the floor. Nothing is truly filthy, it’s an ad, but things are cluttered and could definitely use a good tidying up.

    It was no accident that her little vlog only showed literally the corner of the cabin and just the corner.

    I would have loved to see more. Not for “catcha” moment for Nikki. I just would like to see what it like that’s all.

    I never gave much thought to what Joe did all day. I figured with little ones under foot much of his day was just managing them and could understand why projects weren’t being done. It hard to be like I’m going to build this or that and have little onesomething around and be expected to watch them too.

    However, I started to wonder because the more I follow the more ore I realize if anything on the homestead gets done it’s because the kids did it. Plus, add on to the fact all of the issues that have taken place at or near the shop involved Joe. Joe, it seems spends a lot of time at the shop.

    I know her business wouldn’t be able to function if they all were there … so that has to mean kids at home while both mommy and daddy are at the shop.

    Which wouldn’t be a bad thing I know many self-employed people were husband and wife are both at the place or business, but that’s because they both have something to contribute and a roll to play to make the business successful. The best I can tell Joe has no abilities to contribute to dog grooming.

  133. I just watched the Vlog (Vol 1 Ep 9) that shows the corner with the bed, shelves, etc and I had myself a thought.

    Mrs N very is very careful about only showing stuff belonging to and talking about herself and the baby.

    I wonder if there’s some reason she may be wanting to appear as a single mom with one kid living in a tiny home.

    On another topic, saying that you live a minimalist lifestyle might be seen as a good way to get people to donate money instead of material things (no matter how greatly those things are needed.) That way the parents don’t have to go to the trouble of taking the kids’ donated holiday things away to sell them.

    I wish I wasn’t so jaded, but when I look at the Nauglers I see a conglomerate of at least four different families I’ve encountered in the past.

  134. Hi everyone,
    I have been following the family since the children were taken. I have NEVER commented here or anywhere. Mainly because I know how they operate and I did not want to deal with them stalking my personal page. There are so many things about this story that intrigue me. I follow along partly in the hopes that one day Nicole will have some sort of awakening. I am truly hoping for a better life for her and those children. I came close to donating money to them in the beginning. Thankfully I did a little digging before I turned over any of my hard earned money. I was reminded again this week that I made the right decision. Nicole’s video blog showed that the cabin is NOT INSULATED. On her blog post from weeks 34-43 she recaps what the go fund me money was spent on. In this post she says $2000 was spent on insulation. Sooooo is that a lie? Or do they have $2000 worth of insulation laying around uninstalled? WTH?
    Nicole…..if you are reading this and I can speak directly to you I would like to say this…..
    Your “perceived” enimies or trolls as you like to call them are your greatest teachers. These people actually do care about you and your children. They desperately want to see you wake the hell up. They want to see you pull your life together. They want to see you succeed for the sake of your children. They offer well meaning advice. Yes they can be harsh. They are harsh because they are trying everything they can think of to get through to you. They are like parents with a troubled teen and they are throwing everything they can think of at you to set you on a better path. You are so consumed with your own ego and your need to be “right” that you are missing the entire lesson. I hope that 2017 will be the year that you finally wake up, get your ego in check and pull yourself together woman! I would recommend you read A New Earth by Ekhart Tolle, you might just find a little enlightenment. I know you won’t read it, but hey maybe someday you will be ready to understand the lesson life is trying so desperately to teach you. I wish you well.

  135. There’s a whole lot of crap in that video for her to talk about minimalism. I mean, just her side of the bed (She doesn’t show Joe’s side of the bed, and I’m kind of curious and grossed out as to why), and one or two little shelves, and it’s packed full of storage tubs and one of those Star Shower things, which I wanted and decided was WAY too much money, and I don’t have 11 kids, and why on earth would everyone keep their dishes separately instead of getting a set that stacks and nests neatly and keeping it in one spot? She has more stuff in the 150 sq. ft. that she showed that I have in my 400 sq. ft bedroom. And I don’t really consider myself a minimalist.

    And, you know, my little one’s birthday is coming up and I’m looking for presents, and it just occurred to me– if I had 10 kids, it would have been worth the money, when I got all that gofundme cash, to get some short, sturdy safe fencing, some heavy tarps or foam padding for a floor, and built the littles a giant paddock-type dealie. You could lock them in the fence, throw in a bunch of yard-sale toys, and have them safely occupied while you work on whatever you need to work on. It sounds terrible the way I put it, but it’s no different than a fenced in yard.

  136. @Southern Girl, N’s recap of the GFM purchases also includes several thousand for fencing, but recent pics show that the pond is not fenced. That was a CPS requirement so I’m not sure why it is allowed. Or where that money really went.

  137. I laughed at her video, what a joke. Nicole’s “minimalism” is equal to calling a homeless person pushing a grocery cart a “minimalist”. It’s nothing more than a transparent attempt at relabeling abject poverty. And it would be sad if it was not for her constant deceitful attempts to mislead to garner money, attention and support as some sort of guru.
    What she consistently fails to show is her real domicile, her shop, with plenty of space for her and HER stuff, and of course all the modern conveniences. (She does seem to have a thing for collecting stuff in boxes from way back. I guess it’s preferred when dressers or cabinets are unavailable.). Boxes of “stuff” are not what current minimalists deem good for organizing. See: Marie Kondo’s bestseller, a book I very quickly recycled.

    Daily, she rushes from her “minimalist” mattress on a sheet of plywood, to her real residence , her shop, abandoning her responsibilities of childcare.
    It again refutes her claims of providing more time and contact with her children and teaching them through “unschooling”, as she’s out the shed door and running to her shop, before sunup and back to her “minimalist” cot on plywood way after dark.
    I’ll bet she’s never missing her 3 hots, flush toilets, and a hot shower. Little wonder she brags about her long work hours, it’s too much reality retuning to “minimalism” in the real light of the day.
    She needs to do a video on cleaning, that would be interesting. “Minimalism” found there I’m sure.

  138. Happy New Year my friends and fellow posters. Time to purge all your excesses, emotional and physical, and love that which is good and meaningful.

  139. . That was a CPS requirement

    I think the whole thing about the fence around the pond had more to do with the fact that they were living in a three-sided shed. There was no way to secure a toddler. They were also in very close proximity to the pond.

    Plenty of people have ponds on country acreage without having fences around them, but they live in houses.

    I suspect this ceased to be a big issue when they bought the garden shed. At least it has four walls and a door.

  140. abandoning her responsibilities of childcare.

    Come on. That’s not really fair. How is she supposed to earn a living and provide a day care for 11 kids all at once? Joe is useless as a provider. She either has to work or they starve. And there is nothing whatever wrong with a father doing child care. Child care is not a woman’s “responsibility.”

    The problem is that her income is obviously not adequate to support that large family, and Joe makes no attempt whatever to supplement in any way.

  141. I do think she is doing something to financially provide, however that isn’t the only thing required in my opinion that equates to taking GOOD care of children, nurturing them and promoting them according to their needs. She appears to care for her infants at the shop until weaned, then they are left at the Shitstead and it appears she abdicates her role as a parent and caretaker to her older children and JoJo. If financially providing, however inadequately, was all it takes to define childcare, I definitely agree, man or woman, it matters not. Actively participating as a parent is far far more than just financially providing, imho.

  142. FB Refugee, minimalist store their belongings in boxes and totes for easy get away. You can move quickly when your already packed.

  143. Sally,
    As usual, great post with a lot to think about and respond to from both you and the other “Leg Humpers”.
    I am always reluctant to post on something that I know so little about. Even though my husband and I bought a horse for our granddaughter and then a horse for her horse, I am no expert. But, when we decided to put out the large sum of money for the first horse, we had already done research and our granddaughter had already been spending time at a local horse ranch where she learned to ride, learned to clean out the barn, and learned how to feed and groom the horse. After a year of riding lessons and her working four hours a day two days a week at the ranch, she did not waver in her desire to have her own horse. My daughter and my husband consulted a friend of ours who is also a horse trader, and he went with them to do a little horse trading (both times). In addition, the hoof man came with glowing recommendations from the veterinarian. We built a nice barn for the horse and got a pretty nice watering trough, even though there is a pond in the pasture where the horses live. She rides the horse every single day and a man from town comes out and rides the other horse. What I’ve learned about keeping a horse is that they may love their barn and have a huge pasture full of nice sweet grass and plenty of hay, carrots, apples, and other treats, but if you leave the gate open for a second, they will run for it. They need to eat a lot of hay and when the vet comes to check up on things, he always asks how much hay they eat and how much grains they eat and what kind. He always rubs the hips and feels of their bellies and he worms them for us because to be frank, I don’t want my granddaughter’s heart broken if something should happen to either horse so to be sure, he checks their poop and gives them the medicine. It’s a small price to pay for her happiness. The two horses are well fed and there are no ribs showing so to see N’s daughter’s horse looking a bit boney seems to me to be a sign of need. I, too, was not impressed with the horse’s accommodations. There’s no grass and it did seem to be muddy but that could be as a result of recent bad weather. I hope there’s a barn. When we were doing research for our granddaughter’s horse, we learned that the field or pasture should be clean and free of clutter so I was a little concerned over the bricks that litter the Naug’s horse’s field. I can also tell you that taking care of a horse costs a lot of money: vet bills, hoof bills, hay bills, feed bills, barn bills, etc. But, if the child really loves her horse as much as my granddaughter loves her horse, I’d say the expense is worth it. I just hope they are consulting with the right professionals to provide care for the horse.

    Her vlog post about minimalism….yeah, right.

  144. . Actively participating as a parent is far far more than just financially providing, imho.

    Of course it is. That wasn’t my point.

  145. Someone help me out, here…

    According to Nicole’s version of minimalism…….minimalists are people who are so thrifty, they’d rather shit in a bucket and let their kids sleep on the floor…. than part with a dime for “unnecessary” luxuries like beds and indoor toilets. Do it yourself medical care and home births are part of the package.

    Lots of sacrifices. These people squeeze a penny until it bleeds, by God. Mud for Christmas, rice and beans for Thanksgiving. These folks are really walking the walk!

    Until that particular line item that doesn’t fit…..

    A HORSE????? Are you fucking kidding?

    The cost of keeping a horse is THE DEFINITION OF A POINTLESS LUXURY. A $200 a month pet…that actively perpetuates the risk of generating vet bills, property bills, and medical bills for the kids…is NOT minimalism. It’s a stupid, stupid purchase that ends in thousands down the drain and emotional trauma inflicted on the girl.

    Horse will likely get sick or hurt…something horses are very good at. Horse already looks rough. Nicole will likely fuck around playing amateur vet until she kills it. What a WASTE. Worse…how CRUEL.

    That horse’s bills are the cost of a car payment on a car better than the one Nicole drives. A car that could take the older kids to community college or trade school.

    It’s the cost of four kids getting to have their teeth cleaned every month until the family is caught up and has good oral care for their health.

    It’s mattresses for all the children, and insulation for their sleeping lofts.

    It’s a loan payment for fixing the cistern, so they could have clean water on site.

    Getting a damned horse….when you’re living in that kind of squalid sacrifice is almost as outrageous as Nicole announcing she’s been saving up, but has decided to spend the insulation money on a boob lift. (she has NOT made such an announcement….but it would be just as ludicrous if she did)

    Sometimes I think to myself….why do these people piss me off this much? And no, Nicole, it’s not because I want to control you or dictate my values to you, or punish you for living “outside the box”.

    It’s because I don’t like witnessing the needless suffering of the kids and animals in your care. If you stopped advertising the innocent suffering, I might forget about it…and forget you. But you post the pics and tell the stories of outrageously bad decisions you continually make, and it’s hard to look at your kid’s eyes and forget. But there they are. Why? because you’re pimping them for donations.

    I tell myself…it’s really none of my business that they want to live like this. I tell myself….people are free to be idiots and donate to them if they want to…not my call. I tell myself…just forget them, cross your fingers for the kids and critters… and throw your hands up like the courts seem to have.

    And maybe I should. I know there isn’t a damned thing I can do.

    At this point, the only thing I’m getting out of this is that Nicole makes a fascinating character study for a book. That’s pretty much my main interest in watching this dumpster fire burn at this point.

    Also, to witness and document everything in case there is ever a call for that information.

    That’s pretty much all any of us can do.

  146. @DeNauglified: Yes, and if it drops dead they won’t even be able eat it (though they’ll probably try and make an even worse mess, not to mention traumatizing the kids again). And they’ll have to pay for removal.

    ISTR a ballpark figure of $45,000 in donations to this couple. If they hadn’t been a pair of monstrously selfish hypocrites, that money could just about have covered a single-wide trailer with a toilet in it, repairs to the septic system, and a new prefab cistern. If their Mental Thing didn’t compel them to befoul and wreck everything they own except their precious precious phones, this could have been the core of an actual home for those kids. Imagine, a toilet that flushes, fresh cold running water on tap, and the prospect of never accidentally seeing your parents in bed again! Where I live, you can even put in a woodstove!

    And the cost of the horse could easily cover annual pumping of the septic system (which I doubt was set up for a family that big, hence the annual pumping).

  147. I promise this is somewhat relevant. So, a few months back, my old fart and I bought a piece of land that is just enough outside of town to provide us with a little peace and quiet. While I retired, his company has asked him to continue working (computer crap…data base stuff) and are setting him up to work from home. We will move near our grandchildren (two hours from where we now live) but the house on the land we bought was a total disaster (wood framed with wood floors and the house supported by huge river rocks…no lie). My kids and husband have totally rebuilt it from the ground up (new floors, pipes, more support under the house, jacking up to level…you get the idea). Our goal is to add 1200 square feet of housing to the existing very small structure. After we put the new bathroom fixtures in, we are moving in, but the house at present is way too small for all the stuff we own. Hell, I wouldn’t be able to get all our books, and book shelves in nor my crafting crap. So, this week, I am making the painful decision of what I need to take to the house and what we will put in a storage place. I am not a minimalist. In fact, I am a collector. I collect jars because I can like crazy. I collect fermenting materials because I like my kraut and other fermented vegetables. I also collect drying crap because who doesn’t like a sun dried tomato via the dehydrator? I am also a very good cook and when my family comes to visit, I cook two meals: a vegetarian meal for us and a meat meal for the carnivores. So, if you are a good cook, you must know that I also collect a lot of cooking ware, recipe books, and cooking spices etc. My point is that I am going to have to put all my things in storage which is stressing me to no end. I have to decide on the bare necessities. My husband says, put it all in storage, and we will use paper plates and plastic and buy food in containers that we heat up…but my idea of trees being used to provide me with a plate just doesn’t work for me. Maybe I should write to N and ask her how many pots and pans should I take to my very small house, how many cups…you know, since she is such a minimalists herself. Here’s my biggest problem…I have three old cats and they have never been outside other than their ride to the vet for yearly shots and check ups. We built a little fenced in area to slowly acclimate them to outside but until we start the move from total inside cats to partial outside cats in a fenced area, three bitches, the old fart, and I will be sharing a 5×8 bathroom space….shower, toilet, sink, and litter box. Oh the joys. I wonder if I should take all nine pairs of sweats and two pairs of jeans? Retirement has made it possible to never, ever wear a business suit again….except for those rare moments when I do consultations…okay, one business suit, seven pairs of sweats, and one pair of jeans. Jeez! Nicole….hook me up with your vast experience of cutting back…no, I won’t be adding a horse, a pig, goats, or a cow but I have some chicks coming my way. Our newest and nearest neighbor keeps trying to hook us up with pork and beef. LOL….he says, well, cook those black eyed peas in pork and take the pork out…bless his heart. Happy New Year folks and just an aside, today is my 62nd birthday. My granddaughter sang me this song: Happy Birthday to you, you are turning 62, you look like your 22, happy birthday to you…and I love you too. I need to have her eyes checked. LOL Peace.

  148. And happy birthday to you, Jeannie.

    I have the same problem when it comes to cooking and canning stuff.

  149. Happy Birthday, Jeannie!

    Remember, when moving cats to a new home and you then intend to let them be outside, it is best to keep them inside for 30 days so they a “sense of where they live”. Otherwise, they may try and return to their old home.

  150. So, over on the Mirror page, Nicole has said that charges have been filed for the incident at the shop, with the neighbouring business. According to her, she received a PM. So, the County Prosecutor sent her a PM that he had just filed charges, on a Sunday, on New Year’s Day. She is just not right in the head.

  151. Jeannie….cars, coyotes, big dogs, foxes and even large hawks….are a good reason to keep housecats protected. Not to mention the dreaded cat illnesses that can be spread through neighborhood brawls with wandering Toms.

    This is my girlfriend’s solution: (not her actual house…hers is actually cooler, as she has beautiful flowering vines and more landscaping)

    http://www.catsofaustralia.com/images/cat_enclosure_jan.jpg

    They built a nice, large, walk-in cat enclosure, complete with cat walks and a little fountain. At their house, the cats access it from a cat door on the back of the house, but I’ve seen these done on windows, too. It’s simply a cube added off the side of the house made of pressure treated lumber and galvanized fence. Has a fenced ceiling, too. They were able to put it up in a weekend, and we’re told it was very simple.

    Seems like a lot of trouble for our kitty friends, but it’s kept everyone safe and healthy, and able to enjoy the outdoor. She puts bird feeders just outside of it to keep her kitties entertained. Keeps the birds safe and works out really well.

    Might be more than you’re interested in…..I thought it was sort of ridiculous at first….but having seen how slick it’s worked out for a few years, and how much her cats enjoy it….I’m considering putting one up myself! All of the outdoor fun, none of the outdoor tragedies. Not a bad system!

    Another option….have you considered a nice screened porch to enjoy your new place?

    Just some ideas for the future:)

  152. @DeNauglified: A local cat fosterer has enclosed the space under her second-floor deck in used heavy-gauge fishing net to get the same benefit. We don’t have coyotes, but I do know that if a dog wanted to get through, it would take so long and make so much noise that help would arrive quickly.

  153. @DeNauglified – so first of all, why do those cats live better than I do? LOL. Such a cool idea to let cats be outside, without them becoming prey. Love it, and I don’t even really like cats. I also agree with everything you said about Nicole and Joe. Nicole in particular likes to pick up these granola phrases like “off-grid”, “faith-driven”, “unschooling” and “minimalism” without having any sort of understanding about what they really mean. She uses them to try to justify the neglect of her children and to try and make their chosen abject poverty pretty. The number of followers who even comment now is almost nil.
    Nicole’s reality is not pretty. There is nothing beautiful or good about children who are uneducated, socially isolated, fed crappy food from dented, rusty mystery tins. shabbily dressed and given no opportunities to have privacy, shit in a real bathroom or who are left to pretty much raise themselves.
    I personally know many off-grid, homesteading families whose children are well-educated, clean, socially advanced, well fed with healthy food from the land and garden and who have their own rooms in the family cabin. They are also children who visit a dentist regularly and whose parents take them for wellness checks to a real doctor. Those parents also move heaven and earth to see a physician when their children are ill or injured.
    These children are raised by parents who are loving and involved in their lives. Their parents practice responsible birth control so that they have the number of kids they can afford. They are not left to raise themselves or figure things out.
    @Evelyn – I saw that conversation on the BLTATM mirror page about charges being filed and it made me laugh. I too thought that today is Sunday and a holiday. I also went so far as to do a search on the KY court page, which of course is public info, and no charges have been filed. I did see the charges and upcoming court dates for Nicole and Joe though.
    @Jeannie – happy 22nd birthday!!

  154. DeNauglified,
    My husband and son-in-law are building a cat run, which is like a chicken run, I suppose. Until we can secure our back yard, they will be confined to a structure very similar to the one you posted. We will not start putting them out for limited outside exposure till it warms up…probably the end of Feb. They are all three senior cats and are all three quite obese so I know they would not do well if a coyote or other animal approached them or if an eagle tried to snatch them. Thanks for the website, it will give us some ideas. We also have discussed building a screened in porch…Thanks.

  155. Peg: “Nicole in particular likes to pick up these granola phrases like “off-grid”, “faith-driven”, “unschooling” and “minimalism” without having any sort of understanding about what they really mean. She uses them to try to justify the neglect of her children and to try and make their chosen abject poverty pretty. The number of followers who even comment now is almost nil.”
    I too have noticed that she’s not getting a lot of comments on many of her posts, although she still gets a lot of “likes.” Some of those that comment share their own personal experiences with homesteading, but it seems that her most loyal fans are people who have had dealings with CPS, with a few even admitting they lost custody of their children permanently. While that may feed into Nicole’s need for praise from strangers, I don’t think those people have much money to donate to support Nicole and Joe.

  156. Necroposting. It’s cold and windy here today. It’s definitely cold where Beauty is hanging out. Here’s something for her owner to consider doing in addition to feeding her a good quality hay:

    “All things considered, using small hole slow feeding nets to prolong eating times for your hay and adding beet pulp mixed with wheat bran at 1 lb beet pulp and 1/4 lb wheat bran (2 lbs of the mixture = 5 lbs of hay) is a better choice (than straw – note added by Tekla). Protein and minerals are at good levels, major minerals balanced. The beet pulp mixture will also soak up at least 4 times its dry weight in water, making a large and very satisfying meal.

    You still can’t skimp on good hay and you still really need to have a fecal done on that mare – but if you can make this mixture up WITH WARM WATER and provide it to her, along with a windbreak, it won’t hurt her.
    Eleanor Kellon, VMD”

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