The Word is “Helicopter”

I want to make something quite clear here.

I am not critical of Nicole and Joe’s “parenting style.”  I don’t care what time her kids go to bed. I don’t really care about how they discipline those children, provided they aren’t beating the shit out of them.  I just don’t care.

helicopter title

But if you’re going to present yourself as some expert on “unschooling,” you might just spell-check your titles.

public school

This is called “deflection.” She’s answered this question before, but she doesn’t want to do so here. So she “answers the question” by asking another question. She thinks this is clever.

no public school

There’s the actual answer to the question. And it’s not really what it appears to be. She says she would “allow” private school.  However, Nicole and Joe Naugler can’t even pay their basic bills.  It’s for damn sure they wouldn’t be able to afford private school tuition. The kids would never even ask.

But I will answer Nicole’s deflecting question.

Our son indicated to us, as I’ve described before, how unhappy he was in his private school (the one she thinks would be fine).  So we homeschooled him. And when he came to me and said, “I’d like to go to public school,” I replied, “Okay. Let me look into it a bit.”  And I did. And he did.

So our son had all three types of “schooling”: private, public and homeschooling.

examples

I’m not sure what her point here is, except to use this as filler material. Parents differ. Family dynamics differ.  Yeah. We know that.

some questions

I don’t know anyone who thinks they “have the authority to change how other people parent,” or that if the parenting “has a negative effect. . . we should intervene.”

Children are not – and I will repeat this because not understanding this causes big problems – they are not the property of their parents. At the moment of a child’s birth in this country, he becomes a citizen of this country. And as a citizen, he has rights.

Joe and Nicole love to argue and fuss and whine about their supposed rights. But their children have rights too.

One of those rights that the children have is the right to an education. That was the whole point of the establishment of the public education system, so that every child could obtain a basic education. This leads to an educated citizenry. It means we have an educated work force. It provides us with an educated electorate.

Joe and Nicole Naugler are systematically depriving their children of the basic right to an education. I don’t care what they say about “unschooling.” They are not educating those children.  Joe does not do shit when it comes to any sort of schooling. They scored poorly on the testing done by CPS for only one reason: they didn’t know the answers to the questions.

“Unschooling” does not mean “don’t do anything at all.”  It supposedly means that you tailor the learning to the child.  It’s actually much harder to do, if you do it right, than conventional homeschooling. And it becomes harder and harder the more children you have.

I am tired of Nicole insisting that “everyone who meets the children knows how wonderful and educated and superior and intelligent” they are.  Everyone does not know that. Furthermore, I’ve seen enough of her oldest child’s writing (or what purports to be his writing) to challenge that statement.

This is very like Joe’s insistence that “everyone who meets me loves me.”  No, they don’t.  I have met Joe and I cannot stand him.

If children fail in public school (and children do fail in public school), we know about it. We can see test scores. We can see that the child is not doing well. We can evaluate how well the teacher does. If half her class is struggling, we can try to figure out why. Is it the children?  Is it her?

10 books 3 days

But with Nicole and Joe’s kids, we can know very little. We have her word that one of the children read ten books in three days.

I did some math. I know it’s hard, but I struggled and did it.

In order for what Nicole claims there to be true, and assuming that the child reads at the level and speed of a college graduate, she would have been reading non-stop for 9 hours every day for three days.

I used to take my homeschooled child to the library and he would bring home a box of books that rivaled that one, maybe once a week.

He would then go through those books exactly the way I went through the library books I checked out. He skimmed some of them. He thoroughly read a couple of them. He might read part of one and then quit. Apart from books that he was required to read as part of his school curriculum, I didn’t care. He had the books. Read them or not. His choice. That’s what adults do and that’s what he did.  It’s also what the Naugler child did.

But Nicole insists that she read every word in every book because the child is “exceptional.”

Let’s assume for a second that this is true, and that this kid reads at that speed with comprehension and devours books like M&Ms.

If that is the case, she is even more deprived than we can imagine, because she is not being given opportunities to develop her amazing talents. Instead, she is living in a garden shed with nothing.

Nobody really knows. The child might be doing fine. The child might not be doing fine.  Nobody knows.  The child’s rights are being held hostage by her parents, who believe they are accountable to nobody.

And that’s just education. There are other rights we could discuss.

The reason this stuff is important is because the rest of us, the rest of the citizens, have a stake in these children. Not just Nicole and Joe. Society cares because in a few short months, the welfare of one of their children will cease to be their responsibility entirely and that benefit (or burden) will fall directly on the larger society. And then a year or so later, we’ll have another one. And then another one. And so on, until we, as the larger society, absorb all eleven of them, for better or for ill.

clones

She makes these great leaps of logic.

Do we get a say in how another parent raises their child?

Yes, we do, as Nicole and Joe learned last year when the state of Kentucky came down on their heads and said, “No, you cannot have your children housed a three-sided shanty fit for livestock.” We get a say if a parent is beating the hell out of their four-year-old and endangering the child’s life. We get a say if Mommy is letting her boyfriend sexually abuse her 6-year-old daughter.  Yes, we do.

We go to lots of trouble and have lots of really interesting, good conversations about how to achieve the twin goals of allowing parents as much freedom as possible in choosing how to rear their offspring, while simultaneously protecting the rights of the child and the rights of the large society. We’ve worked at this for, oh, 230 years.  We’re doing okay, I think.

Are we trying to create a society of clones? Do we embrace individualism?

See? “If you make me adhere to even the bare minimum of standards, you’re trying to create a society of clones.  You aren’t embracing individualism. You evil statist.”

The first US public school began in 1821, just 32 years after the country began.  So we’re talking about a system that has been in place for 200 years, most of our history.  Anybody look out across the face of America and see Stepford wives marching?  I don’t. Is “individualism” a trait that most Americans embrace enthusiastically?  I think so.

sheeple

Let me give you a little hint about something. Whenever somebody starts talking about “sheeple,” it is safe to disregard everything they have to say.

Especially when they purport to have brilliant, educated children with no effort whatever, and can’t spell “helicopter.”

 

 

 

 

94 thoughts on “The Word is “Helicopter””

  1. I have no idea how to quote so I’m going to just copy/paste. Sally wrote:

    Let me give you a little hint about something. Whenever somebody starts talking about “sheeple,” it is safe to disregard everything they have to say.

    Oh Sally- this this this! If I could do a cartwheel I would do one for you right now.

  2. OMG! My sister uses the word sheeple! And it’s usually when she’s trying to sway someone to her way of thinking. Those that can’t be swayed are the sheeple, while she, who supports fringe political groups, is not. I’ve come to believe that those who use that word are actually the ones being led astray. Sorry, off topic!

  3. In my experience, those who use the word are bereft of any actual argument and categorize anyone who disagrees with them as “other” (“sheeple”). I tend to click the X when that crap starts.

  4. Wait. Just wait.

    On July 22, at 2:42 pm, Nicole writes, “I’m not going to be posting as much here over the next few weeks. I have a feeling my family is in extreme danger.” And she writes this because, “These people will do anything to land my husband and I in jail and the children back in state care.”

    Not even 24 hours later she posts at 8:07 am, then again at 8:49 am, again at 3:46 pm. Today, she posts at 7:30, again around 9:00 am or so, and then posts twice around lunch time. (Don’t hate on me. Systems were down at work today and I had time to do some reading)

    So, by my count, she posted seven times in a period of just over 48 hours, and five of those posts were full blogs. Seven times.

    She says she won’t be posting “as much” but she actually posted more aggressively than usual; not just a statement or two, but full rants.

    And where does she get the time to do that having 11 kids?

    She has this whole list of things to do, that will never happen. And she says she’s not going to do something and then gets right on doing it in excess. She is the epitome of contradiction, albeit highly predictable.

    I would love to believe that her child read all the literature in the image, but even the most avid reader would take more than a few days to digest each page, in all of the books shown. It would certainly take a mind schooled by better than someone who can’t even spell helicopter.

  5. The bottom line is this, how can one possibly take anything seriously from a woman who was so poor she basically gave birth to her 10th child in a plastic kiddie tub in a makeshift hut that did not even have four walls let alone running water or reliable heat. Most grown up people would realize that it was time to figure out how to get a better income stream going before they expand their family but not her. She just goes ahead to have baby 11 in a garden shed. Granted that was an improvement but it was not the Nauglers efforts that caused this housing upgrade, it was the kindness of strangers. Now here we are and rumour has it she is pregnant with child number 12 and they are still as broke as they ever were.

    Actions speak louder than words and their action of continuing to have children they cannot adequately provide for says it all. It tells me that they do not really care about the quality of their children’s upbringing. Growing up in that family is more of an endurance marathon than it is a carefree idyllic childhood.

  6. I think she’s loosing it. It’s really sad to watch this play out. I hope those kids are safe.

  7. Ugh I hate to do this but freedom fighters gone wrong some of your info is wrong.

    Number 10 was not born in the makeshift hut. He was born in the shed that they sent back or it got repo.

    It was not a plastic kiddie pool it was a animal water trough she gave birth in.

    The rest I do agree with that you post = why keep having kids when you can not afford 1/4 of what you already have.

    FYI Nicole birth control is not that expensive. Condoms are rather inexpensive. Or as my grandmother would have said “she should have held an aspirin between her knees” that is only the price of one aspirin and they sell them at the dollar store with lots of them in the bottle.

  8. Guess she doesn’t have Spellcheck or Grammarly on her phone or whatever she’s using to post with.

    She doesn’t care about her kids’ education. If they young lady read all those books in 3 days, I ask again, as I did in a prior post, what did she retain? Could she answer questions about the plots, the thesis, the outcomes? The Golden Compass is a hard book to read. I don’t know about the other ones as my children are adults and my daughter reads Nora Roberts and bodice rippers for fun, while the boy reads military mysteries and graphic novels.

    When the kids were in their teens they had a curfew of 1AM, and they had to call if they were going to be later. My adult son lives at home, as do several of his friends and their parents all have some sort of curfew, especially if they have been drinking. I’ve collected keys enough times and had bodies spread out over my family room, but I knew they were safe and weren’t going to be out on the street.

    She is so full of it, literally and figuratively. When those children reach an age of majority and escape, they will hate their parents for what they did to them.

  9. “Some say if the parenting has a negative effect on a child we should intervene. Well what about “spoiled brats”? We all know a few. Should we do something with those kids parents?” -Nicole “The Free Range Helocopter Parent”

    Is she seriously comparing parental failure in terms of raising a spoiled brat, to that of complicit child abuse, neglect, or molestation?

    Wow! Nicole is far too focused on this blog. It seems that all she writes now, are rebuttals to every blessedlittleblog-post. Only, she cannot write. Nicole just simply cannot write – not for shit, not for a quasi-compost-pile of shit, and definitely not even with 1/10 the grace of Sally’s pen. But she tries, and fails. She should really spend more time thinking, before she shits out these poorly constructed metaphors.

    “And John Holt describes it perfectly. ‘unschooling is allowing children as much freedom to learn in the world, as their parents can comfortably bear’. This isn’t just in regards to education, this applies to all aspects of their life.” -Nicole “The Helocopter Parent”

    ..as much as their parents can comfortably bear? HA! That seems a very low standard to be OK with, seeing as how Nicole and Joe cannot bear for their offspring to have any real freedoms at all… Not only can they not bear it, they cannot even afford it – they cannot even afford to supply them with computers, or museum trips, or any curriculum materials for their unschooling interest of choice.

  10. MyOhMy said: >>And where does she get the time to do that having 11 kids?<<

    ^^^ This. ^^^ – I had three children, did not work outside the home, and homeschooled for a portion of their years, and there were days I could not get everything done, let alone take a shower because…they needed me/wanted my attention (!) AND we had things to accomplish each day! I am not a high stamina, Type-A mom, but STILL! I was also FAR from perfectionistic about cleaning, but just the basics–like cooking, laundry, and basic lawn care filled up the day. Of course that is one thing she does not have to worry about…keeping a house clean (nor getting a shower now that I think about it.) At any rate, there were days I longed to zone out in front of the computer and, occasionally I did, but I was consciously aware my children were being somewhat neglected on those days, and I felt the guilt. I guess when you have a ton of kids you can rely on the older children to raise the younger ones. My mother grew up in a family of 8 children and claims this is true. She is the second born and claims her and her older sister raised their siblings and did the housework. No, it was not a pleasant experience. She did not like it, but she had no choice in the matter. It angers me to watch this family and witness the neglect combined with the arrogance of the mother and the laziness of the father. I do believe it is a grave injustice being perpetrated on these children, and it produces a helpless feeling to watch it play out in front of our eyes! Am I alone in feeling this way? I can barely wrap my head around it! There is NO possible WAY that people can watch this family, read what is happening and have anything good to say about these parents, yet they DO!! It is mind boggling and upsetting all at the same time. Thank you for allowing me to vent on this website. I so wish I could do more. The "enablers" (leg humpers – LOL) make me just as angry! Seriously! HOW??? How can they stroke this crazy woman's ego like they do??? Okay….time to move on.

  11. Excuse me… I must retract that last statement. It seems that they CAN afford some things for unschooling. Like, crayons, …and paper …and… Oh, wait. That’s it.

  12. I think when Nicole says that she’s going to stop posting it’s sort of how I say I’m going to eat less. The intention may last for a few hours but then I can go nuts and eat everything in sight. Nicole gets immediate withdrawal symptoms and starts posting like she’ll never be able to post again. Slight addiction, Nicole?

    On the other point, I think Nicole and the person she’s married to have no idea qwhat education is. To them education equals indoctrination. They think that public school will indoctrinate their children (really they’re only highly afraid the kids will tell responsible adults about life at Naugler Camp Desperation and they’ll be held accountable for it). Actually, the indoctrination taking place is being done by Nicole and Joe.

    I went to public school. I disagreed with my teachers from time to time. I was polite, they were polite and I merrily marched on towards graduation. In college (undergrad and what has seemed like a bazillion years of grad schools) I would disagree with my professors from time to time. I was polite, sometimes they would vary in politeness but the point is I did think for myself. Being educated means to continuously develop and enhance the ability to do critical thinking. Heck if Nicole reads this she’ll probably interpret ‘critical thinking’ as thinking criticisms of her. Actually, she and Joe don’t want their kids to have critical thinking skills–just to be obedient to their parents like good little Naugler sheeple (I find that word to be so empty and rude).

  13. ‘Especially when they purport to have brilliant, educated children with no effort whatever, and can’t spell “helicopter.”’

    I seriously chuckled out loud at this…Sally this is the best thing I’ve read online today!

  14. As a child about that age, I was such a voracious reader that even people who’d never spoken to me knew that. I read at mealtime, between classes, at doctors’ appointments, and even while walking. I was That Girl Who Walks and Reads, and people said that my ability to safely cross streets without looking up from my book was uncanny. (Excellent peripheral vision.) I read with a speed that people did not believe. And I could not have finished three of those books in one day.

    Well, maybe three of the Goddess Girls series. Especially if I were, you know, hiding in the woods near the trash pile my parents ironically called a homestead, hoping to be left the hell alone.

  15. . And I could not have finished three of those books in one day.

    And I too was like you. And I too could not have read all that in three days. And remember, it was 10 in three days, so she had to read 3 1/2 books every day.

  16. ” Ugh I hate to do this but freedom fighters gone wrong some of your info is wrong.

    Number 10 was not born in the makeshift hut. He was born in the shed that they sent back or it got repo.

    It was not a plastic kiddie pool it was a animal water trough she gave birth in.”

    Thank you for the correction Old Time Farm Girl! A repoed shed is definitely an improvement over the 3 walled stick hut but I’m not so sure an animal trough is better than a kiddie pool! Yeeaaaash! :p

  17. I’m not so sure an animal trough is better than a kiddie pool

    Similar. Either one can be cleaned. That’s not to say that it was, but it could be. What is bothersome to me about all that isn’t the pool/watering trough. It’s the children subjected to that spectacle regardless of how they felt about it. And she’ll say they all loved it and it was so Little House on the Prairie, but those kids didn’t have a choice.

  18. “What is bothersome to me about all that isn’t the pool/watering trough. It’s the children subjected to that spectacle regardless of how they felt about it. And she’ll say they all loved it and it was so Little House on the Prairie, but those kids didn’t have a choice.”

    BLB, I agree, 100%

  19. Thank you, Sculder & Mulley for this: “Being educated means to continuously develop and enhance the ability to do critical thinking.”

    I am also a product of urban public schooling. I went to an in-state university, one of the finest of the country. I also disagreed with some teachers’ ideas, and if I could back up my arguments logically, generally that resulted in an “A” on the essay. We were taught not only to learn facts, but ideas from a wide body of thinkers, many of whom ran counter to our familial belief systems. Knowledge, ideas.

    This is what the Naugler parents are afraid of. That if schooled outside the home, their children will truly develop their own minds, voice and desires that do not fall in goose-step with their parents’. Fear creates ignorance.

  20. P. Ovaries wrote, “Is she seriously comparing parental failures in terms of raising a spoiled brat, to that of complicit child abuse, neglect or molestation?”
    While reading Nicole’s blog today those same thoughts also came to my mind. How on earth can she compare what is going on with her children to the life of a spoiled brat?

    Something else she mention in her blog that rubbed me the wrong way is when she talked about how the children acted when they got school supplies. Quote,”As if it where Christmas.”
    Leading her new Leghumpers to believe that they celebrate Christmas and the kids get things.
    Most of us know the kids do not get anything for Christmas but mud pies. Both Joe & Nicole have voiced that the family does not even celebrate Christmas. So why did she compare the children getting school supplies as if it were Christmas?
    Nicole is being very deceptive and misleading even with the smallest details in my opinion with this fresh new batch of followers/donations and they are falling for it. Yesterday many of them were in full attack mode…and actually come to a few Facebook pages to vent their anger and even made a few threats that got themselves booted and sent to Facebook jail.
    Lols, Fun times, fun times !!!
    By Thursday I’m sure they will be even more upset since the evil government and it’s hitch-man will be visiting the wilderness hillside homesteaders.

    One would think that Nicole would be using this valuable time to clean up the place a bit. But O’hell no not her, shes still blogging away. Quote from a BLH comment,”Fighting a battle she can never win.”

  21. I agree with most of what you said except the reading part. As a child I could easily read many books and could finish 600 pg books in a day and could still do it if my health did not stop me. You can learn a lot from reading, when I started college, I knew 75% of the info for my psychology degree because of all the reading I did. My Mom also reads a lot, she can easily go through 10-15 books a week. So yes it is very possible for her to have read those books completely. Just because you or your family does not enjoy reading does not mean others don’t. Just my honest opinion, it makes you look ignorant to harp on things like that when there are real issues in the family. It’s one of the reasons some people think every thing you say is a lie to hurt them… Jmho

  22. I am a Nurse Midwife and when I saw her birthing photos I was intrigued by the “in the caul” photos. However, the birth professional in me immediately noted the cyanotic blue of the baby’s face, which admittedly could have been from bruising, but not likely given the fact that he was born in the caul and somewhat cushioned. A face that blue needs oxygen, and the sooner the better.

  23. I also disagreed with some teachers’ ideas, and if I could back up my arguments logically, generally that resulted in an “A” on the essay.

    I had the same experience in college (Western Illinois University and University of Wisconsin-Madison). More than once.

  24. . So yes it is very possible for her to have read those books completely.

    Well, I’m sorry, but I have the bully pulpit here and I totally disagree with you. I actually looked up those books to see how many pages they contained and the approximate number of words. And then I looked up average reading speeds. And then I did the math. And it works out, as I said, to nine straight hours of reading non-stop per day for three days. If you think that is plausible when you live in a garden shed with 12 other people, well, that’s great. I do not.

    Of course you can learn a lot from reading. That’s pretty much how you learn history and literature and science and all sorts of stuff.

    I am an avid reader, BTW, and have been my whole life. And I have never, ever read 10-15 books in a week. That’s because I read actual real books, not romance novels.

    It’s one of the reasons some people think every thing you say is a lie to hurt them… Jmho

    Please. . .

  25. A face that blue needs oxygen, and the sooner the better.

    I am allowing this comment, but not with a serious caveat. I know you’re a professional (or you claim to be), but I am also. And I know very well that making a diagnosis from a photograph is iffy at best. If it worked really well, we could all just take a picture and send it to our doctor, who could diagnose at a distance. (And I know that’s done, but it’s complicated at best and certainly not ideal).

    We have all cringed at Nicole’s home-birthing, which is Russian roulette at best. It’s a disaster waiting to happen. I totally understand that. But all this diagnosing from photographs is just sometimes over-the-top.

  26. “What about public schools and children who are failing?”

    Well generally a teacher will try to address the issues in the classroom. Then at a certain time… usually during progress reports, grading periods or soon as possible… the teacher will schedule parent/teacher conferences. They do this so that parent and teacher are on the same page. Perhaps the child needs glasses…Perhaps the child doesn’t get enough rest to stay awake in class…Perhaps something is medically wrong…Perhaps the child is worried/focused on other happenings right now may need some leniency to catch up or slow… Perhaps the child is missing too many days at school. The goal of knowing/noticing these things is to make sure the best learning experience for every student and to see students be successful. Teachers love their job so much so they will take mediocre to low pay, purchase things out of pocket, and spend personal time on preparing for their classes to see their students succeed.

  27. Blessed Little Blogger said: >>What is bothersome to me about all that isn’t the pool/watering trough. It’s the children subjected to that spectacle regardless of how they felt about it. And she’ll say they all loved it and it was so Little House on the Prairie, but those kids didn’t have a choice.<<

    Exactly! Especially, "those kids didn't have a choice." And at the link below (if Sally approves it) is a personal testimony from a traumatized child (now an adult) who ALSO did not have a choice and was forced to participate in what to her was a gruesome experience. And when Nicole reads this comment (and she will…no question about it) I fully expect her to whip up a frenzied blog post saying how the children are NOT forced to stay and watch (free to go outside, blah, blah, lies, lies) but that they WANT to stay and watch the crazy hillside/homestead empress in all her butt-naked, bloody, baby-birthing glory. They "WANT" to watch because she is so GREAT at birthing and making babies, and pushing them out…even in a shack mind you (like REAL homesteaders) and while giving birth, more than any other time, SHE can be the "STAR" of the Joe and Nicole Homestead/We're the Real Deal show! Our children WANT to watch (she will say) and of course it will all be a lie because her mouth is moving (or in this case her fingers are moving/typing) and we all know Nicole and the truth have never met.

    http://mxdarkwater.com/2013/03/warning-language-and-trauma-and-why-birth-isnt-beautiful/

  28. I eas actually a little sad that the children were so excited by the crayons. They are not a specific school supply except for very young children. In our household we always had paper and crayons. They were considered craft materials and were always available. Sad that it doesn’t seem to be the case for the N’s.

  29. They do nothing but bathe in lakes all day. That is being lazy, not unschooling, not offgrid either. Lazy and homeless.

    #savethekids

  30. I am an exceptional reader. I have always been. I also read extremely fast. However the faster I read the less true in depth comprehension there is. I found the story about the particular books read and in that time period to be questionable, even when taking into consideration that the “myth” books were below reading level for someone that age. Sorry, not ignorant, not BEC, just a factual observation. Nor is it a reflection on the child in question, as it was the mother who has no credibility touting the story, not the child herself. It is what it is.

  31. Interestingly enough, if the child has aphantasia, it’s quiet possible that she read the books. One man’s description of reading with the condition (https://www.facebook.com/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-feels-to-be-blind-in-your-mind/10156834777480504/) notes that he plows through books, because any descirption is meaningless and he reads purely for concepts and ideas. But unless someone sits down and talks to her about what she read, which her parents won’t do, there’s no way to know what she’s getting out of them.

  32. I have yet to meet a kid that WANTS to watch a birth.
    Then again I have never met a mother who made her daughter shoot her pet and cook and serve it to the family.
    Kendra, watch that video then come back here and be critical of ANYTHING sally says

  33. Hahaha well that shows me you judge without knowledge, I don’t read romance or watch romantic movies and just because you can’t read for 9 hours out of 24, does not mean a child can’t and I also looked up most of the books and they were under 300 pages smh but your the genius hahahahaha no wonder no one believes you, I no longer do either. If half of what you said is true then they would not have custody of their children. I don’t believe you have a clue what you are talking about. If you can’t do it then evidently no one else can smh hahaha

  34. just because you can’t read for 9 hours out of 24, does not mean a child can’t

    I didn’t say I couldn’t. I didn’t say she couldn’t. I said that I don’t think she did, for three days straight, while living in a garden shed with 12 other people and no privacy of any kind. That’s what I said.

    I also didn’t say that I thought you read romance novels. I said that I thought your mother does. You know, the one who reads 15 books a week.

    And I don’t believe that you have a clue what you are talking about either. You tell me how smart you are, but can’t use “your” correctly.

  35. My 13 yr old made that irritating point to me yesterday “you never use algebra in real life so why do they teach it in school”. He’s 13. He saw it on the internet and thought it was smart.
    My response:

    The point of a broad education is to pass knowledge down to the next generation. My generation has NO right to withhold knowledge from yours because we deem it “useless”. You get to decide what inspires you and what you choose to focus on as you grow and nurture wisdom. Until then, your job is to work hard to understand the survey of knowledge that has been kept and expanded on by all the generations before us. Do most people choose to specialize in mathematics or physics? No. But it is because of people that do that we have space travel, microscopes, cars, computers, CT scans… Education is our *only* hope for a positive and fruitful future. We have no right to decide that this sacred trust ends with us.

  36. Honestly, you do not even need to believe Sally, you just have to read what Nicole writes to know she’s crazy IMO.

  37. For what it’s worth I tend to suspect anyone being able to read at the rate required to get through all of the books Nicole showed as probably skimming at best rather than retaining a great deal. I tend to be a slow reader and have difficulty retaining that which I find boring or dry. That being said I have read a great deal of dry and, from the immediate impression, boring material. Thank goodness I did. Thank goodness I was made to through school. It was a means of developing self-discipline, accountability and critical thinking skills that I cannot function at work or in life without.

    The Naugler’s oldest daughter can read and do so very well but I sincerely doubt she has ever had to create a critical review of what she has read. That is by no means any criticism of her, her native abilities, or her hopes and intentions. Rather it serves to show what vital experiences and growth #noschooling has denied her and her siblings. It also, unfortunately, serves to show that Nicole is rather deluded concerning the purposes, functions, and mechanisms of education.

  38. Hey guys,

    Just caught up on the discussion. Sally, thanks for your insight in private, public and homeschooling. I was taught in a Christian school that adhered to state set exams (Dutchie here). In there Netherlands it is extremely difficult to homeschool, let alone unschool. That’s why I’m fascinated by Kentucky laws on (home)schooling and the extent to which the Nauglers are allowed to continue their path of intellectual slothiness.

    Nicole and Joe might say that homeschooled children make great entrepreneurs and that that may go on to college, but if they can’t read and write easily, they won’t fit in anywhere.

  39. Honestly, you do not even need to believe Sally, you just have to read what Nicole writes to know she’s crazy IMO.

    I don’t even know what she’s talking about with the “lies” I’m supposedly telling, or the idea that “nobody” believes me. I post screen shots of stuff. I don’t make it up. Very little of this blog consists of solely my own opinion. Nicole really did post the stuff I put up.

    Yes, I make sometimes snarky comments, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t write it all in the first place.

    I can’t help it that she can’t spell “helicopter.”

  40. The Naugler’s oldest daughter can read and do so very well

    Do we know this for certain? Or is this simply what Nicole asserts? I believe very little of what she says about the children’s educational status.

  41. Kendra wrote, ” If half of what you said was true then they would not have custody of their children.”

    By Nicole’s own admission they only have “Physical Custody” the State Of Kentucky retains ” Legal Custody.”
    We can thank a few KRS Laws and the 2002 Safe Families for Children Act for that and the new Kentucky Bill H420 which was a polite program last year in a few Kentucky Counties set forth by Representatives Burch, Kerr and Miller which was signed into law this year in April 2016. Designed to save the state money IMO.

    Maybe it would be useful for readers to read up on that to have a better understanding of why the children might still be there.

  42. Sally, since I learned about the limits on that Kindle Fire, I’ve been combing my links list (I collect public domain ebooks, it’s a thing I do) for books that the oldest children could theoretically use to both prepare for the GED and teach the younger ones, who could in turn both prepare for their own GED and teach the youngest ones before they leave themselves. I guess I just feel the need to be doing something. And it looks like they can’t “just” go to the Old Fashioned Education page to get the books for themselves.

    On the off chance that somebody out there is in contact with the children–and please, if you exist, DO NOT RESPOND–may I post the links to the pages for the individual books? They can be emailed directly to the address associated with the Kindle Fire. Most are already formatted for the Kindle; the rest are PDFs.

  43. I completely understand the skepticism. In that statement I was referring to what I had seen some many years before.

  44. In that statement I was referring to what I had seen some many years before.

    I had forgotten that you have first-hand, real-life experience. I yield to you.

  45. I know that this is the least of the N kids problems but it makes me sad. Sally confirmed that the kids share on the comments of one blog when I asked . There was money earmarked for ten laptops and home school materials!!! Kindles are very unexplained like $50. They just had them on sale for $33 for prime day July 12th and you could get one in each color. There were 5 colors!!!

    My son had an older model kindle so I let him keep that for games and his new pink one is for school. I started homeschooling my two teenagers last school year. We used an accredited online program that we paid for. This year we are mixing online classes with curriculum. I spent all week last week scouring every thrift store in a hour radius for text books we could use to supplement online curriculum. I kind of went overboard and basically came home with over 50 high school and college text books. Knowledge is power !!! I want my kids to learn as much as possible. There are several free online curriculums for all ages that the N kids could get everything they need from. In cases they are reading here Easy Peasy the other Time for learning . k12 and connections academy are free in most states and provide text books. Of course any of those options would require a lot more than the one kindle they have for their 9 school age children!!

    Education is the way to escape poverty!!!!!

    I live in SC which had rather lax homeschooling laws . You have to register with a homeschool association but if you register option 3 there is no real oversight and no required testing. The state requires that you have retain credits , so many credit hours and so many credits. Unschool parents just make that up! They turn in something to the state saying that the kids completed the required hours and subjects . I have heard very few success stories of unschooling and while I do know unschoolers like the Ns who do nothing I ha e yet to personally see a success story !

  46. IKR? There is so much available online for free! But you have to be able to get online in the first place. I looked at Easy Peasy and others, and finally settled on OFE because it’s nearly all static text and has links to metric whale-loads of free books. I figured that with their parents hogging most of the digital download budget, they would need to keep whatever they were doing as basic as possible. Of course, I was thinking that they were on a phone, maybe an older laptop…and then I found out that they have one measly poky little Kindle Fire.

    Growing up under narcissism is like this: you have to devise elaborate workarounds for massive obstacles in order to accomplish basic life tasks, and the massive obstacles are named “Mom” and “Dad.”

  47. Sally, I love your blog and your attention to detail. I share many of the same fears about the children’s #unschooling as you do. But I have two minor quibbles with things you’ve previously posted. That stack of books was geared toward a younger reader; The Goddess Girls is at a 3-5 grade reading level (popular at my kid’s school in third grade, and fourth for those who really loved goddesses). The other three books are maybe for middle school kids or sixth graders. If she’s really reading above grade level but has only these books to access, she could be reading them much more quickly than would otherwise occur. I don’t think 9 hours a day per day would be necessary if they are not especially advanced books (and they’re not — they’re good, and excellent for kids, but none of those titles are Foucault, KWIM). Her earlier blogs, when Nicole seemed saner, described that kid as a real bookworm (hence discovering that she needed glasses), who could have developed the reading skills necessary from their earlier, on the grid days, when they spent more time at libraries, in churches, and with other people. She could also be rereading some of them, thus skimming (especially with TGG series). As a young bookworm, I did the same, because the children’s section of the library did not always have what I wanted and I could never afford to buy all the books I wanted. Absolutely believe that it’s criminal for her to be deprived of books so much of the time, if she truly is that big of a reader…but many readers have been known to use books to escape from unpleasant realities (guilty of that myself, at times). She could be employing that same strategy.

    The other area I question is your thought that the children are off-line, unless the parents give them permission to go online. I suspect that part of their #unschooling curriculum is unlimited, unfettered internet access. Otherwise, we’re assuming that Joe or Nicole is spending time monitoring each kid’s device and internet usage, a feat of energy and determination I would find unexpected from them. Even tech-savvy, hands-on, involved parents have a hard time monitoring their offspring’s internet usage (not that this is right or okay, just that it’s a new struggle for today’s parents. Things change and evolve, and teenagers are excellent at embracing change and teaching the youth; they’re also pretty good at excluding their elders, if such an idea seems expedient). It would be very strange to me if Joe and Nicole were on top of the internet usage aspect of parenting. Someone else in the comments noted that three of the eldest have FB pages, and Nicole has mentioned that the eldest has a job. If I were a betting person, I’d wager that those kids spend a lot of time online — not as much as their parents do, but a fair share.

    Thanks for keeping up with all that is going on out there. Not an easy task, by any means.

  48. Regarding the books, I understand what you’re saying, but I actually went and looked at samples from those books and I was very generous in my estimations of the number of words involved (I gave her an enormous benefit of the doubt) and still came out with 9 hours per day for three days. I didn’t make up that figure. I did the math. And I assumed she had the reading speed of a college graduate. It really doesn’t matter how advanced the vocabulary is. That’s the sheer number of words involved. You can believe that’s feasible, but I simply do not. And when it was suggested that she skimmed them, Nicole retorted immediately that was not the case, that she is “exceptional.”

    We have zero evidence that would suggest that any of those kids are reading above grade level.

    And if I implied that somehow they can’t get online without their parents express permission, I didn’t mean to do that. Here’s the deal. They have no internet access at the property other than their parents’ phones. That’s it, unless they are somehow able to get WiFi from a neighbor, but I have been there, and it’s highly unlikely.

    So that leaves the shop. I would imagine they are “borrowing” WiFi from neighboring businesses (or maybe Nicole is actually coughing up the money to pay for it there, or maybe she made an arrangement with a neighboring business to use theirs.) If that is the case, then there is ONE Kindle Fire for all those children to share. It’s possible that Nicole has an iPad (I think there was one in a photo) but does she let the kids use it? Exactly how much internet access do you think those kids have?

    She has mentioned that they download movies. So they all get to watch the movie on that little Kindle Fire. I have one of those, as I mentioned. I see it as a sort of private television screen. I cannot imagine sharing it.

    It’s for damn sure they aren’t chewing up Mama’s and Daddy’s data plan. Mama’s online way too much for that.

    I’m not talking about parental monitoring. I doubt for one minute that Nicole or Joe actually monitor their usage. I’m talking about sheer physical access. The kids have FB pages because Nicole made those pages so she would have FB access when she’s in Facebook jail, not because the children actually are on FB any significant amount of time.

    And if the oldest has a job, that’s lovely, but he isn’t online at his job (if he wants to keep it). Maybe he’s used some of his earnings to buy his own phone.

    In contrast, there are two people in my house. We each have a desktop computer. I have a second one set up with the treadmill so I can work and walk. I have a laptop. I have a Kindle to read books, and I have a Kindle Fire. We each have a smartphone. We can get online any time we want.

  49. I hope the kids, in a moment of internet searching, come across the Homeschoolers Anonymous page. It was started by a couple of girls who escaped from oppressive Christian Fundamentalist homeschooling/isolating families, and they’ve become a real movement, helping other kids into the real world, connecting them with info about counseling, legal help, jobs. They were instrumental in helping get the Texas law about identity abuse enacted. They will help and give moral support to any isolated cult-raised young adults out there. Including any Naugler kids.

  50. Terrie- I have aphantasia as well. I do skim over long descriptions of landscapes or physical appearance because it doesn’t contribute much to the reading experience for me. When I was younger, I used reading as an escape and it wasn’t unusual for me to spend entire weekends reading. I would find a place to be alone either outside or in my bedroom. Though I don’t recall ever reading three books in one day.

  51. There’s no way that Nicole would know whether or not the child skimmed or was trying to impress her mom by telling her she read them all. Kids do that and it’s ok and normal. That’s why quizzes and activities are added to curriculum. So that the teacher or guide can ascertain comprehension. It’s not an authoritarian thing to do—it is responsible guidance.

  52. this is totally off topic and I understand if you don’t approve it.
    This is so odd though. This woman posted her Go FundMe on BLH FB in a couple of locations. In one place Nicole invites her to PM her so she can give her tips about saving on electricity bills (eyeroll). Anyway, I’ve been peeking at the GFM and it appears one person donated close to 8500.00 — that just seems so bizarre and fishy to me. I am not sure how or if it is in any way connected to the Nauglers. But it’s weird and I needed to share it with someone. https://www.gofundme.com/2faf224?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&utm_content=campaign_link_t&utm_campaign=welcome

  53. BLB could you clarify something for me. Two separate commenters said they have aphantasia. Has Nicole stated that her daughter has aphantasia and that is why she may have skimmed over portions of the book? How would they know if she has aphantasia? Nicole and Joe never take their children to a doctor? Basically, any statements Nicole makes about her kid’s abilities or disabilities are not based on a diagnosis by a clinician but by only Nicoles perceptions and quick google searches. Basically, any bullshit she wants to shove down the throats of her unwitting followers!

  54. This woman posted her Go FundMe

    I am to the point now that I look askance at anything from GoFundMe. There is a FB page called “Go Fraud Me” and that’s sort of my take on it. It’s online begging.

  55. Has Nicole stated that her daughter has aphantasia

    Not that I know of. I didn’t know what that even was, so I looked it up. It’s sort of not really a thing at this point. It’s mostly speculation. I understand why somebody skims through descriptions in books. Lots of people do that and they don’t have to have some “condition” to do it. I’ve done it, but when I do it, it’s because I just want to get to the action in there and skip all the descriptive stuff. It’s more common, I think, with what I consider “junk” novels. Escape fiction.

    Nicole insists that her daughter actually read all those books in that time frame. No skimming. Reading. I highly doubt it. And of course, in Nicole’s mind, that’s “studying” about the mythological gods.

  56. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on being able to read that many books. I remember reading an outrageous number of books in elementary school (and beyond), especially when we had reading contests and had to record what we read. My parents limited TV (not a problem for the Nogs!), and there weren’t many kids in my neighborhood. As a result, when I was bored, I got into every printed piece out there, including rereading my own stash and ransacking whatever my brother had around.
    What’s key to me is that the reading level for these books is below her age and grade, so that would help speed things up (hopefully). I checked out TGG books that are on my shelf (leftover from my offspring’s younger years — when she read the others, they were from the library) and what was available online — not especially complicated vocab, not especially long. I have read three books a day on many a bored day, often books which were reread out of boredom. If that youngster has a flashlight or some reading light, then she also has evening hours in which to either be bored, wrestle/play with siblings, color and draw, be hungry (I fear), or read. If she’s at all introverted or inclined to need personal space and time, reading is a good way to carve out some space. It doesn’t look like either parent really wants enforces chores nor cleanliness, so that does leave a lot of time in the day to kill.

    Regarding their time online, I suspect that there is at least one additional phone that she’s not mentioned to us, if not a Nexus, iPad, iPad mini, or what have you. They got that GFM windfall, but I don’t think they spent ALL of it to guns, hotels, and Hardee’s (though clearly much of it did). I think I recall an iPad from a pic as well. Especially if Joe spends so much time driving her around — if she has a phone and he has a phone, wouldn’t the kid left in charge of the other kids also have a phone for emergencies? Of course, that is what more responsible parents would often say, so maybe for the Nauglers that’s a no.

    While many parents would be able to set limits on what their children use, these are children who practice shooting firearms without proper safety equipment. No kid is going to see how devoted their parents are to their gadgets without wanting to play with those gadgets him or herself. Every parent I know wants and tries to keep their devices from their offspring, and every single one struggles. Kids love technology — I’ve even seen babies distracted by iPads (not my idea of parenting, but I have seen that occur in restaurants). We all know there’s a large disconnect between what Nicole presents and what the kids endure. Putting on a movie can make loud, hungry kids go quiet for long stretches of time.

    But ultimately, Nicole is a devoted Internet citizen who supports her family grifting online. It’s possible that she relies solely on her and Joe’s phones, but I find that dubious. It’s speculation, clearly, but I suspect there’re more devices out there. I mentioned the eldest’s job because it seems like that’s often a time when phone ownership becomes what we now regard as a necessity — for communication, for rides, for whatever we used to endure without nonstop phone and internet access.

    While I hope the kids are protected for the chaos their mother is projecting and documenting online, I suspect they know much more than they should, both from their parents rants and (possibly) from secret online adventures.

  57. Thank you for your answer. Basically, anything that is shared on her FB is what is in Nicole’s mind. Her perceptions , or rather what she wants you to perceive as a fact when in reality most of it is just her opinions that are not rooted in very much fact but in wishful thinking. A lot like her big ass plans that never seem to be done. Everything she thinks is transferred into an online manufactured make-believe world designed specifically to reel in pity and more begging bucks. Even all her pictures, vlogs and audio are edited all to hell so what you see or hear is not what is reality.

  58. Excellent blog. May I say.. I am a homeschooler. Hardest job I’ve ever taken on and one that I don’t take lightly. It is very much a challenge, one that I am always worried I’m falling short of (and this coming from a college educated person). In short, it can get tough!

    When I first started homeschooling (I homeschool because I have a child with dyslexia who needs one on one attention), I wasn’t much involved with homeschool communities. Then, I moved to a state where there are practically no regulations. We joined a few communities and I was and am still absolutely shocked at some of what I have seen and continue to see. To sum it up, not everyone is qualified to teach their children. I’ve met parents barely able to string a sentence together and my heart aches for their children. How will the children make it in this world when they themselves become adults?

    I fully believe the state I am in needs stricter regulations. What is so harmful about being accountable? A yearly test or portfolio review isn’t going to hurt you or your child (unless you’re not teaching them). But it does assure us (people that pay taxes) that your child has a decent shot at becoming a contributing member of society.

    Just a note to “unschoolers”: they sell boxed curriculums. The only thing really required of the parent to do is to read the instructions. There are many available and you can get them used at a fair price. There are also tons of free curriculum online (though, I’m not a big fan of them but they’re better than nothing). If I’ve learned anything on my teaching journey, it’s that children need consistency. I don’t want to sound like a “sanctiparent” but education isn’t a joke.

    Lastly, I cannot imagine properly educating (or nurturing) 9 children, on top of tending to a baby and a toddler, with a business. Very, very sad for the children.

  59. Mrs. Naugler could be BSing again.

    She could have exaggerated something her daughter actually did. I could have gone through that stack of books in a week, if I had nothing else to do and a strong motivation to escape into fiction.

    She could have misunderstood something her daughter said.

    Her daughter could have told her what she wanted to hear, because disagreeing with a narcissist who controls your life can have deeply unpleasant consequences.

    It’s impossible to tell which. Anyway it’s all a shiny distraction from the other things being done, or not done, by somebody whose idea of homesteading involves taking almost three years to put out a bucket to catch the rain.

  60. Sally: “I am to the point now that I look askance at anything from GoFundMe. There is a FB page called “Go Fraud Me” and that’s sort of my take on it. It’s online begging.”
    I’ll check out that FB page.
    I sort of assumed that things were vetted more carefully by the company itself. I haven’t participated as an asker or giver on that site so I haven’t looked into it much. I don’t mind begging when people need help. Many people are quite alone in this world and could use a hand now and then. But I DO mind scamming.
    I noticed that BLH has removed the Go Fund Me link from ‘posts by visitors’ where it was more prominent. I wonder if they see it as competition and felt envious at the (really freaking weird and fishy) $8425.00 “donation”. blech, it all is so slimy and creepy.

  61. aaaaand this blog has led me down yet another rabbit hole. This time it’s Go Fund Me frauds. Thanks a LOT Sally.
    lol

  62. So you know even less about my Mom but try to lie about her as well. Hahaha she is not even on Facebook, just goes to show that you are not afraid to lie about people you do not know just like some of your lies about this family… Hahaha I now know for sure what you are like and if you really cared about the kids then you would be gathering info without your added nonsense and making a legitimate report with it but you can’t because it is mostly lies hahahaha

  63. So you know even less about my Mom but try to lie about her as well.

    I didn’t “lie” about your mother. I offered my personal opinion. There is a huge difference. And I have no idea what her participation (or not) on Facebook has to do with anything.

    if you really cared about the kids

    I have never once said that I “care” about those kids. That is not my motivation for doing this. Lots of children grow up impoverished and neglected. I do not see myself or this blog as the savior of children or the savior of these particular children.

    I would suggest that coming here is probably a total waste of your time. Replying to you is certainly a waste of mine.

  64. So what is the point of your blog then? Just to bully a family? You sure made it sound like you knew what you were talking about regarding my Mom and did not say it was an opinion until I called you on it. How much of what you say about this family is just your opinion,that you did not make it clear that it was an opinion,have you put out there? So basically it seems like you are doing what you can to make things harder on a family,which then makes it harder on the kids,for fun?!?!? Wow smh you don’t want me replying because I am pointing out common sense things. And if you are not doing it to help the kids then EVERYONE else who is following your lead is doing it just for fun smh sick
    I pray that children services sees this (and I know they will) and takes it into account when dealing with the Nauglers because anyone dealing with people like you and your followers would of course have a hard time getting anything, besides defending themselves, done.

  65. As a teenaged girl, I would have told my parent without hesitation that I had read that stack of books three days after having checked them out if it meant a trip back to the comforts and quiet of the library. A respite from the madness that is the Sstead, with her mothers blessing. Like Tekla explained above, a perfect ‘work around’ a narcissistic mother.

  66. Read it, Kendra. You who read all the time and are so smart, just read it. That is what I said. I didn’t even mention your mother. It was clearly my opinion. I do not know you or your mother.

    I pray that children services sees this

    I would be extremely surprised if they haven’t seen “this” long ago. I feel fairly certain the health department has.

    So what is the point of your blog then?

    I have already gone into this more than I want to, but because this is you and you’re special, I’ll tell the story again.

    I had only a very passing interest in the Naugler story when I first read it. It had a few things that caught my eye. First, they are in Kentucky. Second, the news articles portrayed them (and they often portray themselves) as “homeschoolers.” Third, the news articles portrayed them (and they definitely portray themselves) as “homesteaders.” Fourth, I thought they might well be fundamentalist Christians (they are not).

    So, I read a little bit. It took me all of ten minutes to figure out that yes, they’re in Kentucky, and no, they are not homeschoolers, homesteaders, or fundamentalist Christians. They are, instead, scammers. And I mean that word quite literally. They present themselves as something they are not. They get people to donate money to their cause (for example, to buy each child a laptop computer for schooling) and then they do not use the money for the purpose intended. That is scamming.

    Anyway, I visited two or three of the various critical pages, made a couple of comments (and IIRC, all my comments were made to Joe or Nicole, directly to them, not about them). Nicole had linked a video of a raccoon that she thought was cute and I posted a photo of a chicken we had after a raccoon got hold of her. Joe immediately came over to my Facebook page and snooped all around, looking at my photos, checking out everything he could. My page is pretty public, so I don’t really care, but then he began commenting (you don’t have to be my FB friend to comment on my page). His comments were intended to start an argument with me.

    I ignored him for a bit but finally engaged him. You can read the whole convo here.

    This blog exists almost entirely because Joe chose to have that conversation with me. I don’t like scam artists. I also don’t like overblown, ignorant, cowardly bullies.

    I’m not trying to “make things harder” for the “family.” They make things hard for themselves.

    I would like to see the state of Kentucky or some other state (if they move) take those children from Joe and Nicole permanently. I am pretty frank about that. I understand why they haven’t, but I still wish they would. However, as I’ve said, lots of children are raised in terrible conditions. I can’t do a damn thing about it. Giving Joe and Nicole money quite obviously doesn’t help even slightly, as they have shown in the past year.

    But I can attempt to help dry up the donation spout, just by pointing out over and over again that if you donate money to those people, they will waste it. They are not “homesteaders.” They are practically homeless, living in a garden shed in conditions worse than a lot of folks in third-world countries, and they are doing it on purpose for reasons I cannot fathom.

    Kendra, you do not have to agree with me. I am even allowing you to insult me without censoring you. By all means, say whatever you like. Lots of people are watching. Maybe you’ll convince a couple of them.

  67. “I also didn’t say that I thought you read romance novels. I said that I thought your mother does. You know, the one who reads 15 books a week”

    Maybe you should remember the nonsense you spout off hahahahaha jmo

  68. That was my second comment, Kendra, not my first. And notice the word “thought.” You assumed I was talking about you. I clarified that I was talking about your claim about your mother, not you.

    You went to college? Seriously? Did you happen to go to the same one where Naomi Thompson got her six degrees?

  69. I could read all of those books in a few days. That said, I am 34 years old and I read about 749 words per minute (I have been tested multiple times, and its based on how fast you read, plus your comprehension and retention skills). So, realistically, I could do it. That said, according to Forbes, the average adult only reads about 300 wpm, and most 8th grade students are about 250 wpm.

  70. I used the 300 wpm figure, as that is the reading speed (high estimate) of the average college graduate.

  71. Kendra do you KNOW Nicky and Joe cept the bullshit crap you read on their webpages? I mean if you don’t then shut up and GO READ their Bullshit over the past year THEN come back and cry about what you think Mkay 🙂

  72. “I used the 300 wpm figure, as that is the reading speed (high estimate) of the average college graduate.”

    Completely makes sense. I was only posting the bit about myself because it can be done. When I get a new Tamora Pierce book for example, I can devour 600 pages in 4-5 hours and I can tell you every important detail in that book.

    That said, I think the Nauglers are complete garbage as parents. I don’t believe their daughter read that many books in 3 days. I taught for 7 years, and spent another 4 being educated so that I could teach. Even my best readers probably couldn’t have gotten through that many books in that few days.

    I have seen horrific neglect – I’ve taught in a Reserve heavy area and I live near North Central Regina (Canada’s Most Dangerous Neighbourhood) – its not uncommon to see 4 year olds wandering around at 11 at night in the summer, but the Nauglers to me are the worst, because they encourage others to support their incompetence as parents

  73. Most internets of businesses are locked down with a password to get in, I doubt any of the kids are sneaking in a back door to get any info about the outside world. I am new to the Nauglers and there ways and its disgusting. I feel for the kids,, I really do, but there is nothing anyone can do to help them, unless they escape on there own, there under the ignorance of both of these psychos, and thats sad, to be raised that law means nothing, to be denied basic skills. Building a chicken coop does not make you a genius worthy of a video on her fb page, its horrible and depressing

  74. Oh, Oh, OH ( said like Squiggy) can I join Sally’s Groupies? Can we all wear matching tie dyed tee shirts and have bandanas and go on jolly road trips to see her milk fed pigs?

    WRT that large GFM donation, who in the hell has a 9K electric bill? I know there are agencies to help people with their bills. that’s unreal.

    I teach adults at a tech college and I can tell you that none of them do reading for pleasure which I can’t understand. I know they are busy with their courses, but not to sit down and take time with a book. I had to fight with them to read A Wrinkle in Time for their English class. And a couple had admitted that they didn’t read it. :::SMH:::

  75. I use the word “sheeple” to refer to people who forgo critical thinking to do as told, like people who always vote along party lines because because they’re a life-long Republican or Democrat, with no further thought to what candidates stand for, or if the candidate even embodies half the ideals of a party (I’ve been demanding people give me more reason to vote for one candidate or another other than “to keep X out of the White House,” and those who can’t are blind followers, aka sheeple parroting a line), or like people who blindly follow a religion without critically thinking about why they’re protecting JW leaders who are protecting molesters.

    If that child read all those books, she must have hidden herself in the woods. Now I loved reading, and did a lot of it at a super-speed of about 500WPM (I was tested as a kid, which meant reading, and then taking a comprehension test), but three of those books a day would have been mighty iffy. See, I had friends and a life I didn’t want to literally escape every moment I was awake. If A read then, I think she hid herself, and was trying to remove herself from life. Why would she do that is life is wonderful?

    Nicole complains about kids having curfews and rules and stuff. My husband and I, a couple of adults, have rules. If we aren’t going to be back by a certain time, we call so the other person isn’t worried. If one of us forgets, the other rightly gets mad because of the worry an out-of-characteristic lack of communication causes. It’s not being trained by the government or whatever. It’s being considerate of another person.

    “And John Holt describes it perfectly. ‘unschooling is allowing children as much freedom to learn in the world, as their parents can comfortably bear’

    Hey, Nicole! This doesn’t mean doing nothing. My daughter sometimes learns by watching shows like Littlest Pet Shop. We will watch together, and I’ll use it as a time to teach her, for instance, about bullying, since the Biscuit twins are classic bullies. I’m not always comfortable about using shows like this, but I can bear it. The big thing here is she is still learning things needed to be a good, intelligent human being, whereas you post pics of your kids sleeping, and call it #unchoolinglife. My child has educational goals, and how we meet those goals isn’t always how I want, how I’m comfortable, but I bear it to help her remain interested in actively learning. Your children are left to learn by osmosis, without guidance, without goals, since they don’t want them. Stop calling it unschooling. Call it Sudbury, which is the correct term and sounds better than unschooling to those who don’t take the time to research the different methods.

  76. Is she planning on a live feed of the inspection tomorrow?

    This should be funny and sad. We will probably be unable to follow what he is doing as the screeching drudge and bloviating JOJO add their own audio spin of it. Poor inspector followed around by the harpy. If he bends to take a sample of earth we can look forward to a special H
    JOJO narration of the constitutional rights that are being violated while the drudge describes the act as the inspector stealing earth her children grow food on and planting bugs so that the conspiracy of trolls can further damage and persecute their poor poor children. The fans will eat it up. They are so easily guided that they will miss what they are seeing with their own eyes and let the blessed grifters dazzle them with bullshit.

  77. Kendra, I’m going to reply to your first comment line by line:

    “I agree with most of what you said except the reading part. As a child I could easily read many books and could finish 600 pg books in a day and could still do it if my health did not stop me.”

    I can read 600 pages of Dr. Seuss in a day too! What d’ya know?!

    What’s on those pages matters, and Nicki-Naug is claiming her child reads far, far more.

    “You can learn a lot from reading, when I started college, I knew 75% of the info for my psychology degree because of all the reading I did.”

    Too bad you didn’t learn how to not write a run-on sentence. Also, I’d like to know what diploma mill you went to if you learned 75% of what’s needed for a psychology degree from random books you read as a kid instead of psychology books. Where did you learn about Abraham Maslow? What did he develop? What is Ivan Pavlov best known for? Most of what you need to know for a psych degree from any reputable establishment won’t be learned from Babysitters Club books and Twilight.

    “My Mom also reads a lot, she can easily go through 10-15 books a week.”

    Math is hard. Let’s presume the word-count and reading level of the books are the same. (My first-grader can read 30 Bob books in an afternoon. If book count matters, how much smarter is she than adults who read fewer Steven King books in a day?) 15 books in 7 days. That is 15/7, which is 2 1/7 a day, or less if we were to go by the 10-book estimate. I’ll be generous and use 15. Nicole claimed her daughter read 10 books in 3 days. That’s 3 1/3 books a day. In 3 days, your mom reads 6 3/7 books, compared to Abigail’s 10, and in a week, Abigail reads 23 1/7 books, compared to your mom’s 15 books.

    Your little bit of evidence that it’s no big deal to read at the rate Abigail does because of what your mom reads, again, presuming same word word count and reading level, doesn’t hold water. The child still supposedly reads much faster than Super-You and your Super-Mom.

    “So yes it is very possible for her to have read those books completely.”

    Possible? Sure. Probable? No, especially if we consider comprehension and retention.

    “Just because you or your family does not enjoy reading does not mean others don’t.”

    So you have to make improbable claims to prove you love reading? All right. Whatever.

    “Just my honest opinion, it makes you look ignorant to harp on things like that when there are real issues in the family.”

    It indicates that Nicole is living in denial about her children’s abilities, if not outright fabricating things altogether. That’s a real issue. The children are educationally neglected, yet Nicole wants us to believe they’re all geniuses. She uses these claims to justify not educating her children, which is harmful to them as well as to the society that will be supporting them and their offspring (presuming the meet partners and don’t start looking within the unsocialized family).

    “It’s one of the reasons some people think every thing you say is a lie to hurt them… Jmho”

    Except it’s not a lie. The concerns are valid.

  78. Kendra,
    The information that Sally provided to your question on what is the point of the blog can be found in the about section. Notice that she also questioned the critics of the Nauglers (in a FB post about canning where she was defending Nicole’s post). Because she did not agree with the critics, she was banned.

    This blog has provided accurate information about a variety of topics, typically on homesteading and as a result of Nicole posting inaccurate information. There is a blog here on using solar panels (Sunny Side Up June 2016) where Sally describes the practicality of solar panel use. Nicole merely posted that with solar panels one could have A/C, laundry, appliances. Sally did an excellent post on shit (shit: a primer June 2016) which explained why human manure is dangerous to humans and cow manure is dangerous to cows. This was in response to a BLH poster who thought we should not worry about human waste since animals eat the same as us and we don’t worry about using fertilizer from animals. Nicole did not correct this poster.

  79. I am going to posit this idea with some annoyance at the Nauglers. They are nothing but posers, imposters if you will, who broadly announce that they are homesteaders, voluntaryists, deeply religious, affiliated with a significant religion, flat-earthers, and are beloved by all who know them (except for some meanies who keep taking them to task for their stupidity and malevolence).

    They are, authentically, homeless campers with a shed, readily acquiescent to real legal authority voluntaryists (except Nicole’s resisting arrest in which she demanded to be shot), refer to women in mysoginistic terms as an apparent tenet of their religious observance, told not to come back by the religion they say they’re affiliated with, flat-earthers only to generate controversy and donations, and generally loathed by all, or nearly all, who have ever had in-person dealings with them.

    They are fake, useless, and malevolent people.

  80. I use the word “sheeple” to refer to people who forgo critical thinking

    The problem is that Republicans use the word to describe Democrats, and Democrats use the word to describe Republicans. Everyone thinks everyone else (outside the set of “people who agree with them”) is a “sheeple.”

    I abhor the word and honestly tune out anyone who uses it.

  81. Back to the reading, specifically, The Golden Compass. I’m currently reading this to my son, who is 7. I am a college graduate, and for what it is worth, I was tested as reading at a college level in the third grade. I’m an adult now and I read voraciously for pleasure.

    The Golden Compass is full of vocabulary that I can derive meaning from the context, but as far as actually knowing a definition of that word, I might be hard pressed. Now, I am sure someone will jump in and tell you how stupid I am, but my degree is in medicine, not English, so the last real vocabulary class I had was in high school. This is the same child that Nicole said she didn’t know HOW she learned to read, she just knew that she could, right? A self taught reader would not be able to make it through this book in one day, in my opinion.

  82. A question and warning just in case anyone here is new: If you choose to view NN’s live feed tomorrow of the Sstead, I believe you will need to use your FB account. Correct? Be forewarned if you do.

  83. Sally,
    Are minors allowed to comment here? And I am referring to Kendra, not the Naugler children. Just checking!
    Also, thanks for the much needed laugh I got from your comment about Gnome!

  84. Are minors allowed to comment here? And I am referring to Kendra, not the Naugler children.

    LOL No, they aren’t. Is Kendra a minor? Do we have any evidence to support that?

  85. Hahaha the ignorance from some of you shows just who you are… You assume way to much. I never said it was from reading random books but nice try hahaha and ya I’m a child hahahaha tell that to my Mom who gave birth to me over 30 years ago. And heck no I’m not giving you info just so you can continue doing to me what you do to others. I know exactly how you people are, it is easy to see from responses to what I said. You make stuff up that was never said and if you can do that to me off the few comments and info I gave them it is no wonder half of what you say about others is bull crap…. The proof is in this thread… Enjoy your bullying, I actually have a life to live hahahaha but thanks for all the laughs hahaha

  86. BLB, if I may; not that you need defending, but I thought I would add my two cents on the attack of both you and your readers.
    Please let me provide my credentials: 1) I have a PhD in English with a heavy emphasis on Rhetoric, Composition, and Literacy. 2) I’ve taught writing for more years than I like to count as well as the history of rhetoric…well, you get it. 3) I have been the director of a very large writing center at an R1 university. and finally 4) I am well published in the area of college writing and transitioning from high school to college writing. I’m not bragging but providing my credentials but anything I write can easily be supported through a little research.
    Kendra, a while back, I ended up with a little windfall of money and thought I would like to help a family and had heard about the Nauglers. I wanted to provide them with a cabin or house or trailer…whatever they wanted but first, like the rhetor that I am, I set out to do some research to make sure that the family deserved my help. My first stop was at the Blessed Little Homestead FB page where I simply made a comment about the reasons why humanure composting must be done correctly and immediately began getting attacked by both Joe and Nicole. In fact, Nicole deleted my comment and banned me from commenting. That didn’t set well with me; after all, I was simply trying to provide them with information and nothing more. A few hours later, I began getting a barrage of Facebook friend requests from accounts that on the surface seemed to lack photos, daily thread comments, etc., but I accepted one and immediately began getting attacked…I unfriended JOE, and let all my friends know that a crazy man had started stalking me and had threatened me and for them to be on the lookout for any new friends who they have no connection to. A day or so later, I received a phone call from a man by the name of Joseph Naugler and he said one of my employees was harassing his family online during office hours. I guess when he called the college, they transferred him to the director, me, and then he proceeded to rat me out. LOL. How funny is that? I assured him that our computers are checked frequently for inappropriate usage but I would check into this person’s usage, again, me, and I would make sure that she was taught the correct times to use FB…on her break…during her off hours….etc. If his call would have been sent to one of the deans would it had hurt me? No, of course not. The point is, he and his wife are crazy and I am so happy that I found out before plopping down 30000 dollars on a housing structure for them. Also, after his little attack on me on Facebook, I began doing more research and found news reports about the neglect of those children and then I found this blog… To me, Kendra, this blog serves a public service to all of those people like me who might be thinking of giving money to the Ns. It provides us with the real picture so that we can make an informed decision. As it turns out, I chose to use the money to provide help to three families in my area: 1) a widow with four kids. Her husband was killed in a car crash and they barely had enough money from the insurance to pay off their house. My husband and I provided enough money to winterize the house, buy the kids some much needed technology, and we bought the kids’ school clothes and supplies for the upcoming year. We will continue to help this family. 2) a young woman who is taking nursing courses at the university where I teach. We provided her with a dependable car and we set up a scholarship for her so that she doesn’t have to worry about books. She can also draw two emergency checks a year for the next two years to pay her rent. She has two kids and is divorced and is working her way through nursing school as an LPN; she is in the BSN program. The program is hard and expensive, and working as an LPN is hard so she works three days a week and tries to study the rest of the time. I hope she makes it. 3) we gave some money to an older couple who attend my sister’s church. They live on a very limited income and she, like me, has MS and must travel a good distance every month or so to see her doctor. They will use the money for overnight stays during the doctor visits or they may spend it all at the casino. I don’t care. I was happy to share.

    Imagine if I had given all that money to the Ns? The husband doesn’t work and makes no contributions to his children’s financial needs. From all I’ve read and seen through the news and on their blog and their FB accounts, he doesn’t provide much in terms of their health, emotional, or educational needs of the children. They seem to me to be grifters and the sad truth about their life is that they are raising children who won’t function outside of their family unit. Sadly, I’ve known a couple of folks who were raised by people like N and J. They finally leave home, get a low-paying job, struggle to keep the job, and must learn that everything their parents taught them has handicapped them. So, they must fake it until they learn that all that crap taught to them is a lie…or, they keep getting fired from their jobs, and after failing, they crawl back home to their parents and participate in the grifting, thieving, harassing behaviors of their parents. The other alternative is that they continue going from one low-paying job to another until they either meet a partner who can function in the workforce, or they end up getting arrested for petty crimes, go to jail, maybe prison…

    Kendra, I also see this blog as a life line for those children. You know by now, the older kids are beginning to question their parents idiotic beliefs and maybe they will start reading the blog and begin to see that the local government has a reason or a point to requiring certain processes for composting shit, raising animals, raising children, etc. Maybe, this blog will provide them with information that just may make their lives easier when they leave home. Whatever the purpose of the blog, you can count on one thing, it is a well researched, logical, educational blog that is rich with information about “homesteading” while showing the Ns as the grifters that they are…..

  87. She corrected the spelling of Helocopter on her blog title…….lololol…shes really something

  88. She corrected the spelling of Helocopter on her blog title…

    That’s called #unschooling.

    However, the internet is forever.

  89. I’m glad Kendra stopped by, she certainly laughs a lot. I can picture her typing and laughing, kinda creepy, but whatever. Nicole needs a defensive line up like this. Kendra, maybe she’ll send her HelOcopter to pick you up to have a tour of the homestead. Cue sinister laugh hahahaha.

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