Dealing with this weekend’s tragedy has been difficult. Obviously, it was massively difficult for the primary individuals involved, but it’s been hard as well for those of us on the outside looking in.

I’m actually a little bit surprised at how much many of us are emotionally invested in all this Naugler stuff.  I’m not sure why, but I know we are.

I’ve spent hours trying to figure out how to respond to it.  My gut instinct is to be merciful and kind, and that’s why I opted to write about the funeral.  On the other hand, being sappy would be transparently fake, and I can’t be dishonest.

So I have vacillated wildly.

And while I’ve been vacillating, I’ve also dealt with some really nasty shit from Naugler humpers who have piled on with the old “why don’t you do something else with your time” and “crazy old bat” and “why don’t you take up knitting” and all the rest.

But in the midst of the sorrow, and the emotional roller coaster, and the struggle to stay in the realm of honesty while at the same time exhibiting at least a bit of compassion, I got this.

One donation is not better than another simply due to the amount. I do not want to imply that. Everyone has different means.  Some folks can’t donate at all right now. Others have donated a little bit. Debra is working her little self to death doing this.

But this sure did brighten my day.  It helped remind me why I do this, why it’s important that I do this, and why knitting is not a good substitute.

My sincere thanks to all of you for reading.


13 thoughts on “Hard”

  1. What a generous gift. In the midst of tragedy, sadness, anger, frustration, and a multitude of other emotions life is good. Glad another child will be attending camp. That is one more life that can be impacted positively.


  2. Of COURSE your gut instinct is to be kind, Sally. That’s because you have a lovely soul.

    I feel terribly about what has happened but still cannot forget the vicious things said to you. If we put the shoe on the opposite foot, then what? Just something to think about.


  3. This may or may not post since I am not sure I clicked the right button. I really need new glasses. I have MS and it messes with my eyes and you know, well, shit, back to the topic. I think that those of us logical thinkers who don’t buy into the bullshit propaganda about the non schooling, off grid, homesteading crap that the Naugs preach are experiencing a conundrum of sorts. On the one hand, we have all said over and over again that she was playing with fire. You know her age and giving birth in that filthy tool shed and so forth and so on. No prenatal care is a bad idea, I don’t care who you are. But, on the other hand, a baby has died and as women we know how strong the bonds to our children are and how devastating it is or was or will be should those bonds break. I think it goes without saying that we are all sorry she has lost the baby boy but it also goes without saying and with saying that she is over 40 and her general health from her teeth to her feet has not been good, so to risk her life and the life of her baby on a principle that she claims is her right to home birth is about as negligent as denying her children with some of the very basic rights such as education, healthcare, safety, shelter…well, you get the idea. Then, there she is just posting and baiting and acting like it’s another day in whoville…or hooville. What the fuck?


  4. I think all of us feel torn. By our very assembly, we’re people who care about the treatment of children, who don’t want them to be neglected and endangered. We stick our necks out to say something…because we care so deeply. (and many of us have the scars to prove it)

    There’s a part of me that says…even Nicole with her repugnant history of inflicting abuses…deserves kindness and mercy right now.

    And there’s a a part of me that says….well, at least little W. never had to sit in a full diaper in a 105 degree plywood shed, or puke and sleep in the dirt while mom snaps photos and writes a blog about it. I would say at least he didn’t have to endure having his privacy constantly violated by his parent’s net addiction…but again…they detailed his death and posted photos of his poor little body. It leaves the grossest taste of exploitation….for me, anyway.

    Both feelings…pity and outrage…. are deeply enmeshed to where they’re impossible to tease apart. I cannot forget the threats of violence, inappropriate calls and harassment, or the stalking of family members endured by myself and others. I cannot forget the extreme cruelty to other grieving families….casually quipped by the Nauglers in the past.

    The bigger part of me still feels mercy and concern. Particularly, for the children. I keep thinking of little O, sitting there helplessly, terrified that she was watching her mother die. THAT makes me cry.

    I’m proud of our Troll sale. I’m proud of Deb and Sally and all who helped with purchases. At our core…we’re people who want to help. Who love kids. Who care about their welfare, and want to see the world treat them better.

    I’m glad we took something negative, and with Deb’s creativity and whimsy, made a positive.

    I’m proud we’re getting kids to camp. I’m glad we’re doing something special that will make someone smile and will provide the kind of attention and positive reinforcement that all kids deserve.


  5. its hard not to want to pass that plate of crow right on over, but we have always known you have class and dignity in you’re pinky then she has in her whole body.
    i would also love to say some things about all of this, but really, it wont make a difference, it wont change anything, and they will not learn from any of it.
    as for the donation, that is really amazing, and wonderful, and thoughtful, and did i say amazing?


  6. Getting donations for saying mean and ugly things to people, and for goading others into doing the same!! Wow what an honorable thing to do with your way to much free time!! GET A LIFE!


  7. The timing of the donation was perfect…

    It was a reminder that i very much needed…kindness…selflessness…things we don’t often experience in this saga is something we all need to focus on.

    Let’s focus on the kids we CAN help and keep trying to expose the parents of the ones we can’t…until we can.



  8. This has been difficult to you Sally because you have a HEART.

    This has only been difficult for Joe because Nicole/money-maker (the brain behind the business) almost died. This has only been difficult for them because everyone can see that Joe and Nicole are negligent so-called parents. Capable of placing their ideology before the life of their baby! Flesh of their Flesh! Blood of their Blood!

    They can NOT in good conscience say to themselves, or anyone else, that they did EVERYTHING in their hands to save baby William’s life!

    They could have opted to have ULTRASOUNDS done to estimate amniotic fluid and to take a look at the placenta’s health. They could have opted to have BLOOD WORK done to determine Nicole’s clotting factors with her history. Baby William could have had a NON-STRESS TEST. With my last baby (2015) I made it to 41 weeks and 2 days. I had all those tests and I’m in my 20s! Natural, vaginal delivery in a hospital. You can keep your baby in your room, you can walk around during labor (with iv), you can deliver on your hand/knees. Get an education Nicole! Stop spreading lies about birth!

    If only you would have listened to all those comments on your page nicely telling you to get checked out. Instead you allowed others to MOCK those with kind-intentions. Life taught you and Joe a lesson, huh?

    Or do you still view little, innocent Baby WILLIAM as a CASUALTY?



  9. NICOLE: ” I do not screen for disabilities. They have been wrongly diagnosed in the past and I want to enjoy my pregnancy. If I have a child with a disability then I have a child with a disability. There is no other option for me.”

    NICOLE is stupid and negligent. JOE just follows along.

    I’m going to comment on this paragraph here, if you allow me to Sally, because I do not have a FJ account.

    I’m pretty sure if all of Nicole’s equipment is still ok, Joe will try to impregnate Bitcoins again. (Joe will not care that Nicole is at great risk of STROKES)

    Nicole, if you get pregnant with a special needs child you cannot deliver him/her unassisted and expect him/her to survive. He/she will join Baby William.

    For example, a child with Spina-bífida need to be delivered in the hospital! With a carefully assembled medical team. It takes TIME to prepare a SPECIALIZED medical team! Time your unborn child will not have.

    For your safety and for your family’s safety please reconsider your reckless/negligent ideology!


  10. NICOLE: “What it boils down to is there are no guarantees in life. Childbirth is a beautiful natural process which sometimes has casualties. There is nothing man can do to change that.”


    Possible explanation as to how Joe views his youngest son? Casualty?

    I hope not.

    But sometimes the homebirth/unassisted group largely views the place of birth as more important than the outcome.


  11. It happened finally. Nobody wanted Nicole’s baby to die and most everyone was pointing to clear indications that Nicole was not well and needed prenatal care badly. The Nauglers seem to think they can get away with anything by being defiant. They didn’t this time. Who knows if the baby would have been stillborn with the best of prenatal care but Nicole and Joe’s behavior and decisions resulted in this sad outcome.

    In Nicole’s mind she is never at fault. But in this case, as in most of her life, she certainly played a role here. People recommended that she take care of herself, heck to not even get pregnant, but that seemed like persecution to Nicole and if she couldn’t gratify Joe whenever he felt the urge, well Joe wouldn’t be as bound to her. No one will tell her what to do even if it results in risks to her child being realized.


  12. “She can’t even keep her kids alive, and she wants to criticize my pile of clean clothing.”

    Yes, this was said by Nicole Naugler, to a woman who had lost her child. Screen shot is available.

    See…THIS is why it’s hard.

    In Nicole’s mind, making a sick comment blaming someone for the death of their child is fair game….for defending….her laundry.

    It’s also hard because several of us warned her, with genuine concern, about the kinds of issues she could encounter with her high risk pregnancy… right down to detailing with chilling accuracy what did, in fact, happen.

    And this was her answer:

    “The rudeness however, is a sign of ignorance. People who don’t matter begging me to get prenatal care for the sake of my child!! I’ve birthed 11 healthy babies with no interventions and no complications other than a mild hemorrhage which we had under control before the EMTs even arrived. I’m not sure what could be provided for me that I’m not able to do for myself. I’ve had prenatal care before. I’m quite familiar with the process.

    But the other day, in a reply to one of my comments, a very nasty lady said to me “Nicole Naugler, well hi there just want to send greetings BTW you look horribly unhealthy you really do need to see a doctor if you die with this pregnancy you were leaving a lot of children behind to fend for themselves”

    Of course I immediately blocked this person. As someone who homebirths it is an advocate for homebirth, I’m well aware of the statistics of childbirth in the United States. I also know that statistically I’m safer at home then I am in a hospital.”

    Which is all well and good….except it’s total bullshit.

    And then we’ve got Nicole’s alternate reality where public hospitals are not “statist”, where all police are evil and the military are baby killers. It goes on and on….

    What do you do with this shit?

    In the end, there’s not much you can do.

    Wait for the next disaster, and not be particularly surprised when it comes, I guess. Wait for the next victim and offer them support. Hope like hell the kids escape someday and get a ton of therapy. That’s about it.


  13. NICOLE: “What it boils down to is there are no guarantees in life. Childbirth is a beautiful natural process which sometimes has casualties. There is nothing man can do to change that.”

    Nothing? Then why the hell have the rates of death for babies and mothers has declined since the 1850’s? You don’t fucking suppose that medical intervention had something to do with that, do you Nicole? She is such a waste.

    In the United States today, about 15 women die in pregnancy or childbirth per 100,000 live births. That’s way too many, but a century ago it was more than 600 women per 100,000 births. In the 1600s and 1700s, the death rate was twice that: By some estimates, between 1 and 1.5 percent of women giving birth died. (2013)

    2012 https://ahundredyearsago.com/2012/04/10/neonatal-and-infant-mortality-rates-1912-and-2012/


    Infant mortality rates are at an all time low especially in the developed world. There’s such a high rate of confidence in the likelihood of survival of mother and child that it’s common for women to have baby showers at some point in the third trimester of pregnancy instead of waiting for the infant to be born.

    Statistics from 2009 from the World Bank showed that infant mortality in the United States was 6.8 per 1,000 live births. Canada had 5.3 and the United Kingdom had 4.6. Sierra Leon had a one of the world’s highest rates of infant death at 112.8 deaths for every 1,000 live births.

    In the late 1800s and early 1900s infant mortality rates were on average 100 per 1,000 live births with some European countries like Russia and Germany reaching rates as high as 250 deaths per 1,000 live births. This is according to the report, The Decline of Infant Mortality in Europe 1800 to 1850 edited by Carlo A. Corsini and Pier Paalo Viazzo. Wealth did not make any family immune to infant mortality, according to the report. Agricultural laborers tended to have the lowest infant mortality rate up until the early 1900s.


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