Getting Permission


I am an old woman.  🙂  But I am the least-prudish old woman you’ll ever meet.  This is my personal feeling about all this.

Jacob Naugler just turned 18 today. Faith is 19.  They are way too young, in this society, to be saddling themselves with responsibilities they cannot even imagine.  Whether or not anyone thinks that is “good” or “bad” doesn’t matter.  It is what it is.  Life in modern society is tough enough in the best situation.

I couldn’t give two hoots whether they are married legally or not.  Doesn’t matter to me in the slightest, in terms of so-called “morality.”

But marriage serves a purpose way beyond “the state-sanctioned process of getting permission to be a couple.”  Marriage is a legal contract.  Jacob and Faith don’t have a pot to pee in (LOL) right now, but let’s say that something horrible happened, and Jacob was hit by a Lowe’s truck on his way to work and killed. And let’s say that suddenly Jacob’s estate is worth a whole pile of money. If Faith is not married to Jacob, Faith would get absolutely nothing. She would have zero rights.  The kid might, but inheritance laws surrounding minor children are onerous and Faith wouldn’t like them.  She would have to answer to a court-appointed guardian for every dime.

There is a really, really good reason why LGBT people have fought so long and so hard for the right to get that “state-sanctioned process of getting permission to be a couple.”  It’s not just inheritance rights. It’s also the right to visit your spouse in the hospital should the need arise. It’s the right to file a joint income-tax return.

Should adults, knowing all this, choose to just merrily forge ahead and have fifty kids without bothering with that “state-sanctioned process of getting permission to be a couple,” that is, of course, their right.  It’s a very stupid decision in most cases, though.

That said, I would personally be opposed to Jacob and Faith getting married at this point. They most likely won’t be together after a short time (a couple of years, maybe). The odds of their relationship falling apart are extremely high, much higher than if they were older, educated and settled. And marriage will just make the break-up harder and more complicated.

Even if they do make it as a couple, they still face needless hardships due to this silly decision.  They are more than likely going to be far poorer throughout their entire lives than they would have been otherwise. They have placed roadblocks in their path that didn’t need to be there.

But the original comment, made by the unfortunate Bridget, wasn’t about whether or not marriage is wise in these circumstances. The comment was that Jacob cannot be considered some great role model.

And Bridget is right.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, with the proper, functioning plumbing and some cooperative gametes can produce a pregnancy, provided there is a partner.  It doesn’t mean that the world needs to have your DNA replicated.  It doesn’t take talent.  It doesn’t take intelligence.  It doesn’t mean you are reliable, or hard-working.

It just means you are hard.


42 thoughts on “Getting Permission”

  1. Ha! Great closing line. Jacob and Faith aren’t great role models. They are two people who had sex, most likely without any protection, and to no one’s surprise, Faith got pregnant. If the two of them figure out a way to earn a living income without the need for hand outs; if they take proper care of their child and provide it with medical care and vaccinations, a home with working plumbing; if they ensure their child gets a decent education; then they might be decent role models.


  2. Great post! I agree wholeheartedly. A pregnancy so young is not about morality. It is about actuality in the real world.
    They will struggle more financially than if they had waited a few years. There will be more heartache that is hard to handle when you are young and inexperienced.
    There is a pretty good guarantee there will be inlaw struggles.
    I do wish them well. Hopefully he will go to trade school and make a better life for his little family than what he has been taught and lived.


  3. Joe approved this pregnancy. Joe encouraged this pregnancy. One might say Joe was right there, watching over his son’s shoulder as he impregnated his girlfriend. Joe encourages youth to just roll with the biological urges they feel, no matter how old they are. Joe and Nicole had a few kids themselves before they ‘asked permission from the state’ to marry. I can’t help but wonder why they ever married, given their rebellious nature.

    Kids on farms learn about procreation from farm animals purposely being mated. Maybe not so intended, too. While it’s good to be taught the facts of life by your parents, you shouldn’t learn by seeing or hearing the animal grunts of your parents as they satisfy their own ‘biological urges’. *THAT’S* the role model Jacob (and all the rest of the kids) had. Do it if you feel it! It’s natural and normal in the Naugler household.


  4. Teen pregnancy is not a good role. Teenagers are notorious for rebelling , not eating healthy and irresponsibility. Diapers alone are alot. Laundry, food, blankets, clothes,you name it. Even if you breastfeed ,you will still need to get things for that child. I’m assuming another sibling on said homestead will be watching said kid.


  5. Nicole is again living in fantasy.

    Jacob will go to “trade school”! How? With what education? With what basic study skills and competencies?

    Lets think about trade schools a minute….in a rural state like Kentucky…where damn near all the kids who graduate high school too poor to go to college think to themselves…I know! I’ll go to trade school!

    How much competition do you think there is for the number of trade school spots and apprenticeships the state can support?

    Lets think about what kind of applications they’ll get:

    John Q. Student
    ACT 26
    Highschool curriculum: Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry, Pre-Calculus, Intro to Physics, 2 years of a foreign language, Drafting, Small engine maintenance. Interpersonal Communications.
    Recommendation of:
    Math teacher
    Engine maintenance teacher
    Community service rep
    GPA….B- average
    Can demonstrate basic competencies in math, chemistry, physics, combustion, hydraulics, and schematic reading on entrance exam. Can score in top 20% of applicants.
    Computer skills literate with applicable software, good study habits.

    Jacob Naugler
    ACT….um, what’s that mom? It measures reading, writing, science comprehension, geometry, alegebra and pre-calculus skills? Huh?
    Highschool Curriculum: Building three sided structures with bad materials and bad tools. Stacking rocks. Terrible gardening effort with no soil testing or soil improvement….fundamental lack of understanding the science behind gardening. Goat races. Pseudo-parenting a dozen little siblings. Writing bad fiction at the middle school level. Basic survival. Mom will write my official transcript and it will read like creative writing.
    Recommendation of:
    McDonald’s supervisor
    Mom I washed dog butts with her.
    No basic competencies in math, chemistry, physics, combustion, hydraulics, and schematic reading on entrance exam. Will score in bottom 20% of applicants. (not for lack of brains, necessarily…but because of having no exposure to material, and no one educated or familiar with the material to offer guidance!)
    Social media/pop culture computer literate.
    Untested study habits.


    You crippled this kid. You screwed him out of so many options and opportunities that he has to start from absolute remedial basics. You wasted the part of his life he could have been preparing to live up to responsibilities…..on making him a surrogate for YOUR responsibilities! You and your husband are the most selfish bastards imaginable for this THEFT from your kids.

    I hope you feel so deeply ashamed for fucking your kids over like this. I hope you cry over it every damned night. You should. If you had a decent bone in your body, you would.

    You took a bright capable young man and cut him off at the knees for your own selfish interests.

    One day he’s going to hate you for that.


  6. You know what else is a biological urge and normal regular process, providing the plumbing works well, NN?

    Taking a shit.

    I take shits. Am I a good role model?

    I’m feeling feisty today.


  7. My daughters are teens and know that they will until they have finished their education, and started a career, to partner and make choices about having a family. They realize that first and foremost, they must develop themselves as autonomous, responsible people. They need life experience in order to become the best parents they can be. They know that without a solid education and career path — college, grad school, the professions or the military — they will be relegated to the minimum wage jobs in society, with little chance for upward mobility when there are children’s mouths to feed.

    A “good role model” is a parent who encourages his/her children to develop themselves before embarking on the task of parenting. To seek goals outside of simply procreation. All mammals procreate, it’s nothing special. It is no Gold Medal accomplishment having eleven children mired in poverty and isolation. It is not being a “role model” for a barely 18 year old and 19 year old to bring children into the world.

    There are no good role models in the Naugler family.
    The mindless flock that support Nicole’s pronouncements are mostly on the lower rungs of society themselves, working shift jobs, little education, no financial freedom, often brainwashed by religious propaganda that “family” and “children” are the only goals to which one should aspire.
    Consider that the wealthiest, most powerful, or most accomplished people in our Western societies generally have 4 or fewer children (The Kennedys and Mitt Romney’s respective clans are an exception). And they have the resources to raise numerous children. Large families are for the serfs, cheap labor to provide for the nobility and the 1%.


  8. Josie, that was the most disgusting, ickiest thing I’ve ever read. And you’re exactly right. Random fucking because one is horny is not the best teaching for children. Now please excuse me while I go bleach my brain.


  9. Nicole’s comment about the neighbor –

    Blessed Little Homestead ” for starters the 40-year-old-has-2-kids-and-no-baby-daddies-still-lives-with-her-dad….”

    What a damn hypocrite you are, Nicole. Judging someone else who has not married the father of her child. You and Joe didn’t marry until 2009, right? And you support your family by living off a PayPal button.


  10. “I can’t help but wonder why they ever married, given their rebellious nature. ”

    To ensure they would receive handouts from whatever religion they were pretending to embrace at the time. LDS, I believe.

    Yes, LDS.

    “We’ve only been members of one church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. LDS. Mormons.”

    “We did have a personality conflict at a few wards, so I don’t get along with people. Maybe it’s more they don’t get along with me.”

    When you have personality conflicts at a few wards – it’s you, not them. You’re an asshole. A bleeding hemorrhoid. You state that you’re being threatened, stalked by the neighbors but you’re the one reporting on their every move. Who’s stalking whom?


  11. So J will go to trade school. A shame he didn’t go to public high school FOR FREE and tech school FOR FREE. Now, even if he somehow gets admitted to trade school with no GED, he will still have to pay tuition. Those McD’s salaries don’t stretch very far. Good luck with that.


  12. Looks like the young ones had a big Christmas with Fs family, in a warm house with some electronic gifts and good food. That’s a, keep going..far far far.


  13. I had my first child at 17. Married his father and we were together for 22 years. As far as teen marriages go I knocked the ball out of the park…..

    Even under the best of circumstances. (My ex husband had a degree and a job when we got married) parenting before your prefrontal cortex is developed is hard. Trying to teach a little person how to be a functional human is incredibly hard when you don’t even know who you are yet. There are so many doors that closed to me permanently because I became a mother before I could even vote. I love my son and I’m grateful that he has turned out to be a good man. But he did not have the mother that his youngest siblings have. He didn’t have someone who was educated to support his education, he didn’t have someone who had learned to think before she spoke. He had a young woman who loved him dearly but still got frustrated that she had no friends because her responsibilities made it impossible to see them. He had a mom who had too much distraction and not enough patience.

    It’s for this reason I made sure that he and his brother understood birth control very early. It’s why my eighteen year old has an IUD. I want my children to have more than I did. I want them to become parents when they are truly ready to do so. I want them have the opportunity to know themselves before they need to be a role model for a small person.

    I wish these kids all the best and pray that the other side of the family remains closely involved with their daughter.


  14. “Looks like the young ones had a big Christmas with Fs family, in a warm house with some electronic gifts and good food.” No, in the photos that are public, it’s only Jacob of the Naugler clan at Faith’s family’s house. Everyone else is Faith’s relatives.


  15. I agree, Sally. I won’t look down on people who have alternative legal protections in place, and I don’t think marriage is a prerequisite for children, but there needs to be something in place. My husband and I had our kid before getting married. We were opposed to getting a license until our LGBT friends could too. But some certain relatives threatened to cause problems of a sort I won’t get into in a comment, but we knew we had to do something more to protect our child in case something happened to me. If something happened to him, things would be okay for me and our child since he has the family every person should have. I don’t. Paper is just paper when it comes to commitment, but outside of commitment, it confers important legal protections. If Jacob were to be in a mortal accident and they weren’t married, and Nicole and Faith had a falling out, NicNaug would bar Faith from being there by his side. If married, Faith could bar NicNaug. That paper matters.

    But Jacob and Faith, two young, infatuated, stupidly ignorant people, would probably be harmed. The chance of either of them coming into money and then kicking the shit bucket is really nil, but the chance of a divorce is very high (I don’t care to hear about those 1 in 250 couples who married were at 18 with a kid and are still together at 26–let’s see how many are still together at 36–my parents were one of those exceptions who were happy to death, but even they didn’t support kids getting married since they knew they were just lucky), and they probably couldn’t afford it. That would force them to either remain living together and hating each other, or living apart and while married with all the legal hassle that causes.

    And no, having a working penis and healthy sperm and an intact vagina with eggs and open fallopian tubes doesn’t make someone a role model. Making choices that would be wise for others to emulate makes a role model. Fucking someone you just met who was, just a few weeks before, dating someone else, doesn’t make a role model. Do Nicole and Tamra want their other minor children to do exactly as Jacob did, or do they hope their kids wait until they’re financially stable and with a dedicated partner? It’s really okay to be disappointed that your kids are having babies, to be disappointed in their decision, and to still support them. If my kid got pregnant at 15, I’d be disappointed, yes, but you can bet your ass and everything you own that I would be there for her to support her as she continued working toward self-sustainability (Jacob and Faith are not as their stability relies a ton on Ma and Pa paying for that landfill). Nicole’s acting like her son passing on his genes is amazing. See, it means her genes are passing on.

    Those kids don’t know what they’re in for. Turning 18 doesn’t make someone an adult with adult experience. 18 is the age where you start having adult experiences. You’re supposed to do that before dragging innocent children into the fray. REAL adults understand that, and REAL adults know it’s okay to admit when they’re not ready. I wanted a baby at their age, and asked for birth control to help thwart myself if I started getting too stupid, which made ME a 17-year-old role model since I could admit I wasn’t grown up enough to start having babies with my then-boyfriend, who I was so sure I’ve be with forever. Even though I was sure of that, I knew a baby was a different matter.

    Jacob and Nicole…way to fuck up your lives, kids. Stop now, and limit the damage. It’s not too late yet, but if you keep fucking and making babies, then you’re fucking stupid. Prove you’re fucking smart by using birth control from here on out. If you wait until Faith is 25 to marry, then I will personally pay for the wedding dress, flowers, and tux for Jacob. I’m not kidding. Wait.


  16. I am still fairly sure that as it gets closer to when the baby is due, and she has had quite a few months of playing house in the wee shed, life on the homelessstead will have well and truly lost it’s appeal to Faith.
    Joe and Nicole are probably on their best behaviour when she’s around (I’m sure they can be quite amenable when it suits), and the littles are definitely cute and adorable, so everything is hunky-dory at the moment. She and Jacob are cosily nesting in their little place, and life is just great when you are wearing rose coloured glasses.
    But when she has seen the real Joe and Nicole enough to realise what they are truly like, when she sees that the littles are somewhat frightened by their parents, when Jacob doesn’t side with her if there’s an issue, when she understandably becomes nervous over the impending birth, and when she has has enough of feeling grimy and shabby, she will do what girls her age in her position have done since time immemorial….she will want her mother. And her sisters. And comfort and familiarity. And she will run to it.
    It just has to be a decision she makes on her own, in her own time, for herself, and her unborn child. She’s a bright girl. It will happen.


  17. Great read! This one touched close to home because my husbands family have never been good to him. He was the one to go to college, go into the military, buy a house then…… start a family! His older sister was knocked up in high school, the guy took off and her parents (my inlaws) were left to care for the illegitimate child! So fast forward that boy ages, turns 18, barely gets his high school diploma, cannot get into college, cannot get in the military, cannot get a job……(he’s a little slow). He hates the small town and after grandma and gramdpa move to Florida he follows. Long story short he knocks up a 16 year old that dropped out of high school! Now you have one without a high school education, one without a college education and baby and can’t afford so where do they live ???? You guessed it with grandma and grandpa! They
    Are now raising their great grand child!!
    So their real blood son? My husband? The one that lives a great life and has accomplished so much they don’t give two shits about, but their grandson that helped make a baby….. that makes him short of amazing!!!! Jacob is no role model, he’s a honey boy who knocked up a young girl! THE END!


  18. I was 22 when I had my first child. I had a college degree and had been married for a year. We had just bought a house– with plumbing and HVAC, etc. We had savings and good jobs. We were fit to be parents, I think.

    Then, 6 weeks after the baby was born, my husband very suddenly and very unexpectedly died. I was lucky– his job provided life insurance, and because we were married and he had an extensive work history, Social Security Survivors helped fill in the gaps. My job welcomed me back with open arms. I was able to pay off my house and car. We were able to make do, but it was tight. I wouldn’t have been entitled to any of those benefits had we not been married. Our car would have been repossessed. We’d have lost our home. My child would have not only had been saddled with the loss of a parent, but the extreme poverty that came with it. Babies are expensive. Funerals are expensive. Get life insurance if its at all possible. Consider marriage. Do everything you can, Faith and Jacob, to make sure your baby will be okay if one of you gets hit by a bus, god forbid.

    Even without having to worry about feeding and clothing and housing my child, single parenting at 22 years old was hell. I love my little boy so much. He’s my whole world. But I wasn’t ready to parent him– certainly not alone. I was so young that I didn’t know what I didn’t know. I thought I had everything figured out, and my baby is 10 now and I’m apologizing for a million mistakes. My only solace is that most parents feel that way, too. He’s bright and funny and capable and smart, but that was in spite of my mistakes, not because of them. And I was four years older than them and had a college education and a fair amount of earning power and some small idea about how the world worked and I was still overwhelmed beyond belief.

    This isn’t a moral issue– unless we’re counting Nicole’s MASSIVE hypocrisy re: the next door neighbor. This is a “two uneducated kids who don’t even have fully matured pre-frontal cortexes made a really big decision that’s going to make their lives a whole lot harder and have consequences for a tiny helpless creature who didn’t ask to be here.”

    Sorry. I’m on cold meds. I know I’m rambling.


  19. @DeNauglified: “You crippled this kid. You screwed him out of so many options and opportunities that he has to start from absolute remedial basics. You wasted the part of his life he could have been preparing to live up to responsibilities…..on making him a surrogate for YOUR responsibilities! You and your husband are the most selfish bastards imaginable for this THEFT from your kids.”
    Everything you said and more! Well done! Trade school? Pffft. Another pipe dream of Nicole and now sadly, Jacob. He has unfortunately been immersed in his parents’ insanity, morality and world outlook and spews the same crap they both do. He also has a very foul mouth – not surprising. Jacob has embarked on perpetuating the same cycle of poverty and misery for his own family. The only positive is that because CPS is involved with this family, they will be keeping an eye on this baby. Just because Jacob is 18 does mean he isn’t still under the scrutiny of CPS.
    Nicole and Joe should be very ashamed of their own trail of tears. They are both disgusting people.


  20. This is an interesting topic and one that pertains to this situation. Delayed gratification. I imagine that many of the readers is familiar with it, but for those who aren’t here is a link:

    I have the feeling that neither of the young parents (or hell, certainly not Joe or Nicole!) would have been able to wait for the treat.

    One of my kids took part in a similar study. Did succeed in waiting the full 15 minutes (and I have a copy of the recording). What the kid did at the end is what is more interesting though – offered to SHARE the treat with the two researchers. They said THAT was a first (for them).

    Anyway, these two haven’t delayed much and it’s an important skill to learn. Particularly with a baby on the way.


  21. Sorry. I’m on cold meds. I know I’m rambling.

    No you weren’t. You were telling us a very emotionally charged story. Hats off to you. You’ve gone through just about the worst that life can throw at you and done well.


  22. He also has a very foul mouth – not surprising.

    Come on. I do too. 🙂 Of course, I am “of a certain age” and therefore entitled. And I am not having to impress any potential employer.


  23. I am not so sure its about the kids anymore,, seems like pissing contest between them and the rest,, there never going to change so wht difference does it make, other then to catch them when they do something illegal,, what difference will nything make. Seriously, what does everyone expect.


  24. Former Caseworker, hang in there! I was a single parent too and I know how heavy that can weigh on your shoulders. My son is almost 19 now, a wonderful young man, striking out on his own. Believe it or not, I’d do it all over again if I had the chance, struggles and all. Children are very forgiving of our short comings, and your child knows he is loved and very much wanted.


  25. I’m guessing that Nicole’s statement regarding Jacob entering a trade in order to provide for his family, is regurgitated from something impressed upon Jacob, possibly from the new FIL to-be or other male relative on Faith’s side. A lot of parents have “that” discussion with prospective mates. Those statements about Jacob’s plans are quite a deviation from her usual mantras. Remember Jojo’s answer when asked if he worked, ‘no, fuck no.’ (Statist fools only do that.)
    I agree it will likely take a lot to get Jacob up to a competitive level with other young men applying for an apprenticeship, however I would guess someone in Faith’s family may be able to take him under their wing and tutelage, and skip a formal school experience. Biggest questions for me, having been around some of these types is: does he have the ability to show up daily physically and mentally capable for work, can he work an 8-12 hour shift, and can he get along peacefully with others and respect authority. His parents have severely handicapped him here, I believe.
    Nicole can spin all the BS she wants, this is not simply “different” from mainstream thinking and “OK.” I shudder to think that she is encouraging this lifestyle for the rest of her flock through her praise, but it is likely. She has already severely limited them and teenaged pregnancies will serve her nicely in grifting and further handcuffed them to her and the Sstead.


  26. I’m not sure about Kentucky laws but if at some point she decides to leave him, he will be responsible for child support. If he chooses to not pay child support, it will be garnished from any job he has. If he does not work to get a pay check, he can face a jail sentence for failure to pay. At least in my state.
    My son is older than Jacob and he had to drop out of college to support his daughter. Even though he & the mother was living together and he was supporting his daughter for well over a year, when the mother left him our state garnished his checks for back child support and the hospital bill from her birth. He doesn’t have time to go back to school, he’s working 12 to 14 hours a day to take care of his daughter.
    It’s financially difficult for him at 25- I couldn’t even imagine if he’d had her when he was 18.


  27. I was pregnant at 18, then again at 21 (both with my now husband). I can assure you I never once thought I was a good role model. No. I was embarrassed, ashamed, ALIENATED, and limited. I was told by my dad daily that he was proud of me, even at my lowest. BUT I am almost 30 now and I can safely tell you that I have made it and I hope I am a light of hope for other young mothers, BUT I absolutely do not condone it and I do not refer to myself as “a teen mom” (I hate that phrase!). Honestly, I don’t even talk about it in “real” life, that I had a baby when I was a senior in high school, because it doesn’t define me. When you pay your own way in the world and have good morals and values then you can label yourself a role model.


  28. I don’t think baby daddy should be the only one required to work. On top of that….if it’s that cold in shit shed 1…shed 2 must be the same.


  29. “Do it if you feel it! It’s natural and normal in the Naugler household.”

    I hope they’re at least teaching those kids about consent. [Admin: Come on, Kaylee. Cut this shit out. You have no idea if what you are suggesting is even remotely true. ] Self-control seems to be something Joe doesn’t value.

    @DeNauglified, there are for-profit trade schools out there who will enroll anyone who can get the student loans to pay. Jacob is ripe for the picking. Good trade schools will limit who they’ll take. But a lot will take anyone. I don’t doubt that he can get in, and once the school has the loan money, he’s fucked. I don’t think he has the education behind him to do well enough in a trade program to make it worth the time or money.

    I hope he finds someone local to apprentice under instead.

    @Former Caseworker, for a minute, when I didn’t see who wrote your post, I thought you were my mother0-in-law. When she was 22, with a 6-month-old (instead of weeks), her husband as killed in an accident on Christmas. That baby is in his 40’s now. A marriage license and life support helped save them from losing everything.

    @Jaime, you said, “If he does not work to get a pay check, he can face a jail sentence for failure to pay. At least in my state.” Joe refused to work for a paycheck, even though he has a child support order for his oldest son. No jail.

    What happened to your son shows shortcomings in your state’s system, like how children are seen as property of the money, and not going by the date of separation. An ex of mine experienced something similar when we were together. His daughter’s mom decided to go after him for support dating back to birth, even though they lived together and he was the only one working until the kid was 5, when the mom split on him for the man she was cheating with. Since there was no marriage license, a judge granted her petition, and he suddenly had five years of arrears. Our relationship didn’t survive that.

    But Jacob and Faith are in a situation where marriage, right now, may be worse. At least wait a year. Get life insurance naming the other as beneficiary.


  30. Oh, Ann. You were trying the very best you could to.give your babies the best life possible. Don’t you dare be ashamed.


  31. Jacob is no role model. He’s just another undereducated backwoods kid, with literally, no pot to piss in. The poorest of the poor, thanks to his horrible parents. His parents who put making whoopie, breeding like fucking rabbits and quasi facebook stardom their priority of life. Being hard with lots of sperm does not a man make. Look at Joe. I hope Joe has finally lost his ability to produce another kid. Honestly, maybe something miraculous will happens for Faith and Jacob so they make it, but I doubt it. Nicole and Joe should be ashamed of themselves, not proud. They failed that boy and all his siblings.


  32. Joe and Nicole weren’t married for quite a long time. If they truly don’t believe in the ‘statist’ institution of a legally recognized marriage, why did they bother to do it?

    I wonder if it had something to do with their presentation to the LDS ward that was supplying them with all sorts of freebies. It’s easier to make the case that you’re a nice wholesome family that has endured a streak of bad luck when the parents are wed. Not that it should matter (and it may not have mattered) but it’s all about the packaging.

    So when they could have stood for their principles and said, “No. We’re not married. We’re not going to get married. We’re still a family and we’re committed to one another” they caved. So now Nikki gets to opine that “the trolls” are “all” divorced and how awful it is to be divorced. Or that they never bothered to get married and yet had a child or children.

    How many children did Nicole birth before she and Joe married? 6? 7? Hypocritical much, Nicole?

    Happy holidays to the readers. I hope everyone enjoys good times with family and friends.


  33. Jacob’s getting Faith knocked up is just another instance where N and J failed their son. How hard would it have been to provide a little sex ed to the kids…you know, how to use a condom. My daughter was a little reluctant to talk to my 17 year old grandson who had started dating this little gal he was in school with, so I invited him out for some Asian food and before we went in, I said, I hear you are dating. He said, yeah. I say, she’s your first girl friend. He said, yeah. I said, you having sex. He said, Nana. I said, look, if you are having sex or getting close to having sex, you have to use protection. I am not saying don’t because it’s unrealistic but do use a condom. He said, I don’t have any condoms. I said, let’s eat and we’ll go buy condoms…lots of condoms. He is now 19 and still dating the same girl and they will probably marry but at least he knows that he needs to finish college and get situated before they have a baby.

    If N thinks he is a role model because he can reproduce, wow, what an idiot she is. If she thinks he’s a role model because he is going to marry the girl, well, marriage doesn’t mean shit if he cannot provide for the baby and chances are he doesn’t make enough money to support himself let alone the baby mama and baby. The real role model is the young man and woman who practice safe sex or no sex but safe sex is good and wait until they are financially able to take care of their offspring.


  34. For those who want to know, if you want to be baptized into the LDS church and are living with someone but not married you must get married prior to be baptized. And once married you have access to the Bishop’s storehouse if the bishop feels you are in need. Other resources are offered besides food depending on your needs. But you cannot be a member in good standing or get baptized when “living in sin”. Not sure when they joined the church but yes they would have had to be married legally to become members.


  35. @Dinah – thank you for the information.

    So they got married so they could have access to the free goodies available to members who are deemed to be in need. So she trolls

    The next questions sound much more snippy (maybe even nasty) than I intend, but I’m tired and I don’t know how else to phrase them at the moment. Does this mean there is no help that would be made available to non-members? Or to the children of unmarried parents?


  36. If Jacob and Faith want to make the best life possible for that baby, their first best step is to plan (not talk about taking steps, but actually take steps) to get off that land and away from their parents. I can pretty much guarantee that if either of them gets something nice, the elder Mr. and/or Mrs. Naugler will be between them and it faster than a cat who hears the can opener. It’s abundantly clear from everything they post that that’s how they roll.

    Jacob, you don’t owe your parents squat for having sired, birthed, and raised you. Get your GED, get as many hours as you can work, get good references for better jobs, and get out of there. Your major housing goal at this point should be a place with a spare bedroom, so that when the next oldest child ages out and leaves, they’ll have a base of operations from which to start their own independent life. Trying to make life better for your siblings while still on that homeplace–well, you know how that goes.


  37. I was tired!

    So she trawls the religious community for whatever she can scrounge, becoming more and more strident and ungrateful as they are given more and more. Charming couple.


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