Finding Sanity

link to source

Here’s the link again to the article Nicole has referenced.

Stop now and go read it.  It’s not long.

Nicole starts out with a purported quote.

“It’s important to talk to your children about death and murder”

Of course, that is not a real quote. That’s Nicole paraphrasing what she thinks the article says.

Then she takes that horrific event that resulted in the deaths of 17 people, mostly teenagers with promising futures, and turns it into a conversation about. . . her.

Of course.

Her comment about the deaths is that she is “so sad” and that life is so unfair sometimes.  A guy picked up an AR-15, that she believes should be legal, that he obtained legally, and went to a school and mowed down 17 people, and what she has to say about that is that it is “so sad” and “unfair.”

Go read this.

How about this?

between the eyes

Or this?

Not only does Nicole make threats like this implying that she is going to shoot somebody, but she also threatens that her daughter will do so too.

good shot

Make no mistake about it. Nicole Naugler is publicly, and frequently, threatening to shoot people, not for trespassing on her property, which nobody has done, but for riding down the public road that borders her property, for being in a public courtroom at the same time she is there, and for criticizing her public comments in writing online.  She is threatening to kill people for that.

But when somebody who is just as screwed up in the head as she is does exactly that, and kills 17 people for no good reason, she says it makes her “sad” and that it’s “unfair.”

And then she goes on to use this incident to justify exposing her tiny children to a movie rated PG-13 (because the thematic content of the film involves a fucking serial killer who killed a young child and other violence).

Her children are different, of course. They are “open with their children about emotions.”

My biggest personal objection to that film is the content, which is religious and thus mythological and silly.  But when it comes to young children, showing them a film about a young child who was murdered by a serial killer is just plain lunacy.

There is a huge difference between purposely letting little kids be scared shitless by the idea that they might be murdered by a fictional random stranger for no reason, and having a conversation with kids who are in school and who are scared shitless by the fact that a real person who was not a random stranger, one of their classmates, might show up at school and start shooting.  These aren’t four-year-olds.

Here’s a bit of what the article actually had to say.

It can be really destructive to have kids exposed to this over and over and over again.

Exposed to what?

Remember 9/11? Remember seeing the replay fifty bazillion times?  Remember how wearing that got?

I was a high school kid when JFK was assassinated.  I was at a friend’s house the day that Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald on live television and we were watching.  My friend’s mother had demanded that we watch the TV because it was “history in the making.”  Then Ruby stepped out and shot Oswald.

My friend’s mother gasped, got up and turned off the TV.  She realized suddenly that high school kids might not need to see “history in the making.”

For days after that, all of us had nightmares about it.  We saw the film repeatedly, of Ruby shooting Oswald, of John Kennedy crumpling, of Jackie Kennedy with blood stains on her suit.

This shit affects people, and it affects children more than it does adults, because children don’t have enough life experience to process what they are seeing correctly.  As the guy in the article mentions, little kids think it’s happening over and over again, that every image is new.

But the Naugler children are different, Nicole says.

Yeah, they are.

They are exposed to threats of violence all the time.  A lot. Those kids are afraid of people driving up their road.

Here’s Nicole’s testimony in court under oath talking about Lisa supposedly driving up the road in front of her house.

JUDGE: Have you, um, have you seen her driving by your residence?

NICOLE: Yes.

She, of course, has not because Lisa has never done that but one time and nobody was home that day.

NICOLE: No, there were several times last summer, and the prior. . . it was shortly after my children were returned. Um,

JUDGE: Last summer she drove by? One or more than one time?

NICOLE: Um, I, I, I can say one that I know of. A lot of times it’s my children that notice people driving by, and they, unfortunately, I have had to show my children pictures of these individuals, including Ms. Luthi, so that way if they do see them passing by our home, they know who to identify.

So, she had to show her children pictures of Lisa so they could identify her. And they did identify her, except for a huge problem.  During the period when Nicole testified, under oath, that Lisa was riding up and down the road in front of Nicole’s house, Lisa was, in fact, out of the state.

But her children have been traumatized, she says.

NICOLE: Do you understand how your behavior on your pages has emotionally harmed not only myself and my husband, but my children?

BOLUS: Your Honor, I’m going to object to the question.

NICOLE: Fine.

When you post on your pages, do you consider the effects it has on my minor children?

LISA: That’s why I have it set to 18.

The children are also traumatized by helicopters.

Nicole called Al’s employers repeatedly telling them that Al had flown over their property and scared her children.

What we have here are children who are systematically and regularly being taught that specific people (Lisa, Al, me, Deb, whoever disagrees with Nicole) are a personal threat to them and that shooting us is not out of the realm of possibility, that random people riding down a public road in front of their property need to be identified because they are all a threat of some type, that medical evacuation helicopters are threatening.

Then she adds that it’s great and admirable that she shows those same children a fictional film in which a small child is brutally murdered by a random stranger.

She compares this scenario with the story of Finding Nemo.

So what does Common Sense Media (which seems to be a pretty decent source for parents) have to say about Finding Nemo?

See the age recommendation?  Five and over.  The child I saw watching The Shack (rated PG-13) wasn’t five.

I mentioned this on the forum, but it bears repeating here. When Nathan was a little guy (under five), he watched a Charlie Brown film where Woodstock and Snoopy were on Snoopy’s doghouse and Woodstock got swept away down the river.  Nathan was horrified and sobbed and cried and left the room. We couldn’t rewind the television. This was before DVDs and video tapes.  His dad had to gently bring him back into the room and show him that Woodstock was okay.

I remember taking Nathan to see  The Black Stallion.  I loved the books as a kid and thought he’d love the movie. We had to leave the theater part-way through because the Black stomped a rattlesnake and it terrified Nate.  That’s when I learned to be very careful with small children and big screens. They don’t mix well.

Children that age don’t understand fiction. They don’t even understand cartoon characters not being real.  They also don’t understand that their mother is a lunatic. If she tells them repeatedly that random people riding down the road are there to hurt them, and that helicopters flying above their heads are threatening, that what people say about you online is so important that it has to occupy your every waking moment,  they believe that shit.

And like always, we will discuss the news, and help our children to be kind. Because that is what is important right now.

What is important right now, Nicole, is that you stop scaring the shit out of your children for no reason at all except your desire to be seen as a victim. You are not helping your children to be kind. You are helping them to be maladjusted and terrified.

It can be really destructive to have kids exposed to this over and over and over again.

 

 

 

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20 thoughts on “Finding Sanity”

  1. Here’s some math. What percentage of a five year old Naugler’s life has he or she spent viewing trauma, real or recreated? A four year old? How bout three? What about the percentage of time spent experiencing scarcity and anxiety? Compare that to the percentage of time they have spent in experiencing security and comfort. Show your work.

    Bonus points: knowing that Fatass molested his eldest son, and that he and Medusa isolate the kids from society, what is the likelihood, on a scale of one to Turpin, that any of the children have been abused?

    41+

  2. Something I feel worth mentioning Nicole, is recourse. As you choose to ingrain fear of real and imagined threats into your children, what recourse do you offer the as a remedy?

    Who do you offer up as a safety net? Comfort? A soft spot to land? A place to express their fear or question the situation?

    School? They wiĺl be shot.
    Police? Molested and shot.
    Neighbors? Shot.
    Adult passerby? Kidnapped and killed.
    Parents? Dropped off to the kidnappers.

    Everything you tell us about how you teach and raise your children tells us that they have learned that there is no place safe and no safe space.

    Is this why your oldest ones who now venture into society have no idea how to relate to normal life situations? Is this why they reach for a knife or a gun or the threats of either whenever confronted by the word No?

    When Joe can’t go to Wal-Mart without a side arm what are the children learning?

    How many incidents have you now posted about where weapons, violence and aggression from you and Joe or older boys are what your children witness when an encounter with a normal citizen in the course of daily life counters what you want to say or do in the moment your paths cross?

    What options are your children recommended to handle emotions such a loss or fear or frustration other than to draw a weapon? Weapons you hand them?

    What I see as profoundly unfair is your pride in the fact that you expose your children loudly and proudly to the very very worst that life has to offer and withhold any recourse or reprieve from it.

    Pets die. Get over it. Babies die, blow it off, people will come to kidnap, cage, molest and kill you, deal with it.

    There is no hope, no help, no recourse. Here watch another video clip about how a fun day of mudding will end with a winch cable to your face. Life sucks and than you die. Now let’s make some bows.

    74+

  3. I wonder if Nicole is familiar with the song Mother Knows Best from Disney’s Tangled. While I’m wondering things, has Joe (he studied psychology ya know) ever heard of having someone kill their pets being used as grooming for anything. Sure they kill animals for food or they say they do. Farming meat animals would surely be a good cover for the whole pet killing thing though.

    8+

  4. She doesn’t differentiate in kids ages and lumps them as a whole. I don’t shelter my kids, they are well exposed to real world events for their age. What I let my now 12 year old watch is not what I would let them watch at 2. They can not process and interpret at 2 the same as teens or preteens. I’m sure plenty of parents would say I can’t believe you let you kids watch that to me and I’m just in shock as to the things she exposes those babies to.

    11+

  5. PTSD. That is the legacy that they are leaving their children. From the many evictions and moves to having no extended family, friends or any sense of order in their lives. Car break downs, money problem, not being able to keep a job, etc..

    Yes. PTSD.

    21+

  6. Sally, both you and SD made excellent points. It’s hard to add anything new to the dialogue.

    I cannot imagine that a childhood raised in lies, fear, paranoia, conspiracy theories, isolation, and to me at least looking from the outside in, authoritarian and controlling self-obsessed parents who seem to suffer from any number of possible personality disorders (and/or mental illness) can be healthy for any child. SD put into words what I have often felt, they have no sanctuary anywhere. “No place safe and no safe space.”

    Just the inconsistency between what their parents preach and what their parents do must be disconcerting. One very poignant example is that Joseph Naugler will repeatedly bloviate (it’s a personal favorite of his) about the lack of a grandfather’s lap to sit on and it’s adverse effects on children and on himself during his childhood. Yet it is Nicole and Joseph Naugler who have cut the ties to those very grandparents (calling them toxic among worse things) thus depriving their very own children of that which Joseph blames for a failing society and his own inadequacies.

    It seems that when the Naugler parents talk of family they are referring only to themselves. It seems that it is all about themselves and their perceived view of themselves. Their children it appears are not viewed as autonomous people, but rather as extensions of themselves. Joe and Nicole view themselves alone as those perfect parents and grandparents (all evidence to the contrary being ignored by themselves). When they speak of future plans there is no plan for their children to grow up and leave the quasi homestead or have lives independent from Joe and Nicole. When they speak of their children’s “independence” it is simply that they may someday move into their very own shed on the quasi homestead. When they speak of their children going out into the world to work, Nicole in particular, speaks of their salaries going to advance the family situation (even and especially to her salon, because that is what she claims will sustain the family) rather than their salaries going to the young adult starting a life independent from his or her parents and to his own family that he starts. This was brought home to me by Nicole’s statements regarding Jacob after the breakup with his baby’s mother. It was as if the clock was turned backward and he wasn’t a grown man with his own wants, desires and responsibilities. He was back in the fold. It became once again “my two oldest sons” will do this, this and that for the family. The fact that Jacob now had a child to support seemed irrelevant to her narrative.

    As to emotions and discussing them with our children everyone I know does that. What they also do is gauge both the emotional age and personality of each of their children to establish what is appropriate for that child. Child development, physical, emotional, intellectual, is a real thing and exposing all the children in a family of that size and age diversity to exactly the same things, in the same way, be it a movie, or their social media wars, or telling them they are being kidnapped by the state, or waiting until they come to the hospital to see their newest sibling only to be told the baby was stillborn, is, imho, poor parenting at the very least, emotional abuse at the worst.

    I just have to shake my head at Nicole claiming she teaches her children to be “kind.” Is it euphemism for kind of good with a gun? Kind of scared of anyone who drives down their road or walks past the salon? Kind of homeschooled? (Think tree study when it’s winter and there are no leaves on the trees). I shake my head every time Nicole says anything. She lies, often telling different and contrary lies in the same breath. She changes her narrative to fit the situation, to bolster lies she has been caught in, or for the audience she is pandering to so frequently it is hard to keep up and impossible for me to believe a word that comes out of her mouth.

    33+

  7. I notice she’s now claiming that they homeschool. I’m hoping if anything good comes out of the horrific Turpin case it will be a crackdown on homeschool/unschool households. There should be regular inspections and testing or a portfolio of work generated by each child. All children deserve an education and an environment that’s physically and emotionally safe.

    17+

  8. Sally what you have just said is so very true and important and really touched a deep nerve with me. what you said about them being taught to fear people or things strikes so close to home because since I grew up in a terrible cult mindset, we were taught as children that police and army men were horrible people and would beat and rape all of the cult women etc etc if they found us. I mean I was 6 when I first was told this. We were also taught to literally run and take cover whenever we heard any air craft as they were supposedly taking pics of us and filming us. I can remember huddling terrified one night after seeing a helicopter that was searching for someone or something close to us with my siblings and praying to God that they (the army? The russians? The chinese? Cops?) would make it quick and kill and rape us as quickly as possible. I can not explain the sheer terror I felt and it was all because my parents were basically the Nauglers. It’s a horrible way to grow up.

    15+

  9. Yes, it’s important to discuss death with children, as well as sex and intimacy. Murder however isn’t nearly as important unless it’s happening close to home.

    Death =/= murder

    Constantly frightening your kids about the dangers of the big wide world stunts them. Discussing that there are perilous situations, people aren’t always what they seem, and so on is parenting.

    What they’re doing is something else entirely. I hope their children eventually take a class on Abnormal Psychology.

    10+

  10. My bio’rents (TM) made us afraid of EVERYTHING.

    School (they will brainwash you and lead you into sin and god will send you to hell.)
    Other people (They will kidnap you and lead you into sin and god will send you to hell.)
    Microwaves (the radiation will eat your bones, come hide over here behind the bar counter while it’s on.)
    Vacuums (if you accidentally run over the cord the vacuous cleaner will explode and you will die (and go to hell for not listening)
    Cops (they will throw you in jail and the lesbo dykes will (genital mutilation) with dirty toenail clippers and you will get AIDS and die and god will send you to hell)
    Billboards (keep your eyes inside the car so you don’t see sin and displease god and get sent to hell)

    And yes, they physically and verbally and emotionally and spiritually and mentally and sexually abused the fuck out of me and my nine siblings for 23 tyears of my life. The Turpin story is so close to real life it makes me sick, but it didn’t surprise me, neither did the Duggars, neither did Gothard, neither did Warren Jeffs. I grew up in what was basically a Branch Davidian splinter group after all.

    It’s all part of keeping you terrified and dependent and too ignorant to know you can leave.

    14+

  11. Stages of child development – and brain development – guarantee that young children do not – cannot – understand such concepts. But they sure as hell remember the confusion when they are exposed to them. Lackadaisical, describes the Naugler’s efforts in safeguarding their children from emotional abuse – they’re practically complicit in it.

    I remember walking the ailes of Blockbuster as a child, and being thoroughly confused and scared just looking at the covers of more adult movies, like Silence of the Lambs. To this day, I remember movie covers, and the way they made me feel as a child- scared and confused.

    Jurassic Park scared the shit out of me. We had to leave the theatre, I cried. I was 8. I am still traumatized, as silly as it might sound. I jump at the most ridiculous things – constantly scared like I am still that child in the theatre. Movies – their images – stay with children like trauma. And they playback over and again, because these visuals and adult concepts are confusing.

    Another concept that the stages of child development guarantee children wont understand? Sarcasm. The Nauglers have said they love being sarcastic with their children, calling them names. But children do not understand sarcasm until late primary years, 9-12. Until then, it makes them feel awkward and confused, if not hurt.

    Great blog post!

    9+

  12. I remember my littlest boy asked me what “nerder” is when he was 2 or 3. He didn’t know the correct word for murder. I didn’t correct him because I knew he would learn soon enough and I wanted to hold on to that little precious bit of innocence for just a little while longer.

    6+

  13. When I was young, the violence shown on the nightly news did a job on me. I, like many of you, grew up during the Vietnam war and the Civil Rights movement, and while rapes happened, murders happened, even molestations happened, but those things were never publicized, we got war…lots of war.

    I was one of those elementary school students whose brother/s had been drafted, and every single night, when the news folks would show footage of our soldiers fighting, marching, running, or even recreating, I looked for my two older brothers. The news would flash from dead soldiers’ flag draped coffins to exploding bombs and gun fire and that was followed by police and police dogs attacking the Civil Rights marchers.

    I thought the Vietcong soldiers would over take our city at a moment’s notice, and that the black folks were just waiting to kill all of us white folks. No one ever said that to me, but seeing policemen fighting American citizens left me with an idea that, like the Vietcong, we were at war. As an eight-year-old, I was unable to separate the conflict of war with the conflict of protestors. Fortunately for me, I didn’t grow up with crazy parents. For instance, my mother didn’t scare me with tales that the cops would molest me, kidnap me, kill me, or kill her. She said cops were here to help us and if I ever got lost find a cop, which I did when I, at the age of eight, got lost in Ponca City Ok. Also, I didn’t have a father who threatened neighbors or carried a gun on his hip or kept guns loaded leaning in the corner for quick access.

    I cannot imagine how horrible it must be for the Naugler kids growing up in those horrible living conditions compounded with parents who intentionally employ scare tactics in order to keep the outside world outside of the reach of the children. Parents are supposed to protect their children and aim for emotional security and emotional and social maximum development, yet, with the Noozlers, they, just like with the physical needs of their children, aim for the bare minimum or less. I cannot understand wanting the least for my best…my best asset, my children and grandchildren.

    Today, before my grandchildren got on the bus, I hugged each one, gave them each a kiss, and told them I loved them to the moon and back over and over again and that is how I say good bye to them not that I don’t expect them to return but in case I suddenly drop dead. The last thing I said to my mother before she died was I love you mama and she said why sissy I love you too. Because my grands had heard about the school shooting at ball practice, and they asked, I reminded them that their teachers know exactly what to do to keep them safe should they ever need to be kept safe from someone. I said if you have to hide, be very, very quiet and if you have to run, run very fast. I said, if you have to lie very still and play dead, do it. And I told them that above all else, no one gets to take away their happiness so go to school and learn and have fun because before they know it, they will be old and hugging their own grandchildren and they better tell those grandchildren how awesome their nana was.

    Times they are different and I have to say we have to keep right on evolving so we can ensure that humans can continue to ruin this planet. But one thing is certain, Darwin had it right, the fittest will survive and those dumb ass shits who shit in buckets are the ones who keep fucking it up for all of us in every way possible environmentally, socially, emotionally, and even physically. Every time I go to Walmart or the mall and I see stupid assed people showing how ignorant they are, I say to myself they must have had a parent like the Noozlers. That shit affects us all.

    Sorry for the long post but by damn those idiots are crazy assed fuckers.

    11+

  14. They’re crippling these kids emotionally and socially…so they have literally no alternative than to stay on the Shitstead, smoking pot, living in sheds, and grooming dogs.

    The kids have no future and no ability to dream. All this was taken from them. If they try to run they have literally no one who could help them. They have nothing else in life as a frame of reference…but their dysfunctional family. And literally nothing else to cling to….so they’ll be fiercely loyal to their particular brand of insanity.

    In ten years….when we’ve got an inbred pack of adults living at a shit piled compound full of garden sheds in various states of decay, growing more and more paranoid and angry with their limitations……it’ll likely end in a bloody shoot out or a massive fire or suicide pact or fuck all.

    One of these days Nick is gonna have serious health issue from her rotten chompers, or FatAss will keel of a heart attack. Then it’ll all crumble. Crazy paranoid panic will ensue and it’ll all implode.

    Yuck.

    5+

  15. it’ll likely end in a bloody shoot out or a massive fire or suicide pact or fuck all.

    God, I hope not.

    6+

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