Disruption

personal space

It’s all about personal space.  Everyone has some and nobody can disrupt anyone else’s space. That’s the rule.

Isn’t that nice?  It’s all civilized and orderly.  And there’s no unnecessary clutter.  Everyone just keeps track of his own stuff and his own personal space and it’s just great.

They teach their children to honor those personal spaces by example, of course. The children mimic their parents.

with trash

And what they learn is that “personal space” is nonexistent when it comes to other people.  You know, like the neighbors who ask  the Nauglers to please get their goats off their property so they will quit eating all the stuff the neighbor is trying to grow.

so damn dumb

But, of course, the Naugler’s goats are “free-range” and that means no fences, no matter what.  You don’t fence in the goats, ever.  You fence in the garden.  Right.  How could “the people on TRTATN” be so damned dumb?

goats

What do you suppose the children will learn about personal space from this?

docket

specific docket
click image to link

Just for those who might ask, the law in Kentucky refers to “cattle,” but the same law applies to all farm livestock. Like goats.

And please note this. The Nauglers have been told repeatedly that they needed to keep their goats at home and made either half-assed attempts to tie up the goats (that’s why we’ve been seeing jerry-rigged “collars” on them) or just ignored the requests.

Joe must just love seeing his name on the court docket.

 

33 thoughts on “Disruption”

  1. Oh my. More court woes. Are we really surprised?

    Joe and Nicole really ought to investigate moving to those free-range countries where there’s little to no government and no laws. Somalia. If you don’t mind war and famine and lack of water.
    Antarctica is a more peaceful place. They could always sleep in the van if it gets too cold.

  2. Pot meet kettle. You have follow rules and laws. Homesteading doesn’t mean you are free to disobey .

  3. Fences cost money.

    The Nauglers seem to be anti- things that cost money. Instead of buying things they need, they develop some sort of anti-whatever stance. Like anti-fenced goats.

    My uncle’s goats are fenced…..on 119 acres. They roam free. The fence protects them from getting into the road (and possibly getting hit by a car) and it stops them from bothering the neighbors. It’s not mean. It protects the animals.

  4. Last I saw, there was a goat playground…fence, but enough space for a goat to climb through.

  5. This makes these posts from Nicole Naugler’s public FB page, even more interesting.

    Chris Good
    “How are your relations with your neighbors and other members of your community? I’m talking about people you deal with in real life, not on the Internet. If you have the respect of those people that is all that really matters and that is what says the most about you.”
    Like · Reply · 3 · April 4 at 2:38pm

    Nicole C. Naugler
    ” We moved out to the country to be left alone not to make friends with everybody. That’s just how it is. We have don’t have qualms with any of our neighbors, and considering we don’t really know any of them, I don’t really expect to have issues.

    There is the one lady who rear-ended us, on purpose, and I have no idea why. And of course the lady a few miles down the road that had the issue with my husband last May. I’ve never actually met her. I worked with her stepdaughter. Most of the people we interact we do fine with. We didn’t have any issues until May, and the only issue is we have are directly related to that incident, like a few local yokels, Who took my issue with the sheriff personally and for some reason hold a grudge, like the drunken German. So I guess you could say out of our small community there’s three people who for some reason have a problem with us, and considering I have never met any of them, it’s a puzzling circumstance. ”

    Check out the date this question was posed. Seems she left out at least one very imminent problem with a neighbor. “Puzzling circumstance” indeed. Did she actually believe this would go unnoticed?

  6. I would suggest, instead of the Mrs.patterning the is life on Little House On The Prairie..They should go fo Gilligans Island…somewhere over 3 hours away. Off shore. In the Atlantic. Near Greenland.

  7. Just flabbergasted. Peaceful coexistence can happen, when one respects other people and another person’s things. What’s so hard about that?

    For f. sake, the homestead compound has numerous “No Trespassing” signs posted. Stay away, stay off their property. Can that same be regarded for your nearest neighbor? Nobody wants the nuisance of free wandering goats. I’m assuming it’s the goats. But it’s not out of realm, if not the goats, it could be the chickens, dogs, cat. Yeah, the goats might be cute. But not roaming on someone else’s property, being a nuisance. And disrupting the neighbor’s personal space.

    Call me surprised, I think not. sigh..

  8. Ah, now all the carefully crafted hoopla over the last few days makes sense.

    They got served and needed a diversion it would appear.
    Does anyone think that a summons regarding their animals/livestock trespassing came as a big surprise to them?

    So it would seem it was time to lead their “fans”, by the ring they have so firmly hooked to their noses, to their dank spot under their troll bridge, all the time telling them they were leading them to greener pastures. Do you think their fans have figured it out yet, or is the Unblessed Mrs right and her fans are too ignorant to figure it out?

    Fences make good neighbors. No, you don’t fence your animals away from only your own crops and home. You also fence them away from public byways and your neighbors homes and livelihood. That’s more than being just plain neighborly, that’s what the law requires. Fail at that and if your animals/livestock cause damage you end up paying the piper. It’s that old ghost personal responsibility come knocking on their door again, maybe this time they will open it and learn from past mistakes.

    They say that their community just adores them. Can’t you tell?

  9. @This is my Real Name: There’s a suboptimal but workable solution to having no money for a goat fence. Buy those dog stakes that look like giant screws and tether the goats. BUT this only works if you compensate for your lack of money by applying consistent elbow grease to your problems. Staking goats requires finding a plan for a goat pen that can be made from junk, building the goat pen, moving the goats out of the pen to their stakes every morning, cleaning the goat pen every day, checking on the goats during the day, providing clean water as needed, assessing the condition of the browse in the area of the tether, deciding whether to move each stake for tomorrow and if so to where, placing licks and supplemental feed in the goat pen along with more clean water, penning the goats for the night, moving the stakes, lather rinse repeat. Every. Day.

    Hence: free-range goats. And free-range process servers.

    Personally I think they should get rid of the goats and the dogs and build some chicken tractors. But again, looking after a flock would require systematic, repetitive work and that is something the Naugler parents just are not good at unless they can get a thrill out of it.

  10. Buy those dog stakes that look like giant screws and tether the goats.

    We tethered our first two goats while we were building/fencing a yard for them. That was, golly, 30 years ago.

    We buried one of the goats who strangled.

    Never, ever again.

    Furthermore, fencing for goats is more problematic than putting in fencing for cattle. A simple strand of electric wire will keep cattle contained for the most part (assuming you have electricity!) That will not stop a goat.

    This is the major reason that we bought a dairy cow instead of goats. In the long run, she’s a better investment. The calves are worth way more money than a buck kid would be. Nicole and Joe can’t even seem to sell theirs. We sold a bull calf yesterday for a nice little sum (right around $1 per pound, and he weighed almost 500 pounds), and he was way less trouble to deal with than a goat would have been. We’ve never had a single minute’s problem selling any of our animals, but we were careful to buy and raise what other people want.

    Our cattle graze on grass, something that goats don’t really do very well (we used have to mow our goat pen, which drove me crazy.) Furthermore, the milk tastes better. Nothing in the world beats Jersey milk.

    All in all, a bigger investment up front, but a much better return over time.

  11. Stop it just stop .
    Blowback ? Don’t play with fire if you don’t want to get burned.
    What do you expect J & N ?
    You call employers, call people’s children dead junkies , you consistently post vile things as Charles and Ben . No I don’t agree .
    It’s not ok to play with anyone’s livelihood. It’s not ok .

    While I wholeheartedly agree it is and was wrong , what do they expect . I’m guessing when you call someone’s employer that’s got to sting a bit . Hurt people , hurt people. Did you think about blowback when you did all these malicious things ?

    It’s enough. I’m betting that large monetary go fund me is not worth the “blowback ” . The new court date and likely fines . Neighbors that don’t want to co-exist with you . People whom don’t use your grooming services . Etc etc

    Just stop it . Admit to your wrong doings take accountability for it , any of it , some of it . Just own it and move forward. No one wants your business to fail . You have many mouths to feed . We all know J ain’t gonna do it . He’s likely not even capable of obtaining and maintaining employment . Furthermore we know your work is your escape . Your real home with proper toilet facilities and all .

    Stop it just stop it …..
    Get some morals , get some class . Some dignity.
    Stop with your superiority complex . You are not a better mom then any of the rest of us . Your kids are not smarter then my public school children. Your profession is not better then mine or anyone else’s . My circumcised sons are not scarred for life nor were they in pain . Your kids are not better or more special then mine or anyone else’s because I work to provide for my kids .

    And my children are not better then the N children. They read way above grade level like every other child in today’s society. They have manners and respect like most children in today’s society. They have good character like most kids in today’s society.

    So stop it just stop it . I think you would have a plethora of people that would have empathy/ compassion for a mom of many – the sole provider if you would just stop it .

    Be a decent human . Isn’t that what you say on your pages ? Be decent ?
    When will you be decent? The greatest gift you can give your kids is to be decent. They will follow it’s not to late . You can change your moral compass, your older angry bitter children will one day thank you for it .

    I am a mom I fail every single day . I make mistakes. I own it . I take accountability and I change it . My children see it . They follow suit . Above all things my kids have great character . They’re kind , giving , decent little people and teenagers. After all character is what you have when no one is looking .

    So stop it just stop it . This has gone on too long , gone way too far . You have the power and ware withal to change it .

    Be the change you wish to see in this world . You will never have peace , be able to fully provide, grow your homestead or a garden . Build a cabin . Build your business. You won’t succeed at any of it or anything until you stop it just stop it !!!!!!!

  12. @Mandated Reporter: They won’t buckle down and work at anything on the homeplace until somebody figures out how to make the act of pulling weeds or picking up trash automatically click the Like button and generate generic approving posts from some kind of bot.

    @Blessed Little Blogger: Yes, tethering the goats is suboptimal and potentially dangerous. But it’s less likely to get them arraigned.

    But again, considering their utter lack of money for supplemental feed and dearth of ways to preserve milk or meat, why the heck do they have meat/milk animals at all? (I know, I know. Because they’re purty.)

  13. @ Jenny – I concur . Hope , I will always have hope that somehow, someway , someday they wake the hell up and stop all the nonsense. Until DCSF comes back to get those kids .

  14. How does this work with this family? I have watched this story for a year almost. I curse the day I clicked on that Yahoo article and read this twisted tale. What I see is 2 adults hell-bent on getting revenge on anyone who disagrees with them. I can only assume this is their MO, and they leave a trail of similar stories in their wake. So, is this how this is going to go down here? They are pissed their neighbor wouldn’t let their goats (or whatever animal du jour) just have free range on their property? The neighbors, rightfully having had enough, finally called the police. J now has a lovely day in court, and they are mad. Raging mad. In true Naugler revenge fashion they are now planning on “pressing forward with the assault?” An alleged assault. This is going to go over like a turd in a punchbowl. What great neighbors to have. We could all be so lucky. I predict it will get beyond ugly with said neighbor, and the Naugler’s will pick up and hightail again leaving the “homestead” property an utter mess all the while playing that victim card. It must be exhausting. It just has to be.


  15. 259.210. Cattle not to run at large — Damages — Lien, impounding — Powers of cities

    259.990. Penalties
    “…(4) Any person who violates KRS 259.210 shall be fined not less than five dollars ($5) nor more than twenty-five dollars ($25).”

    That’ll show him…! Ha! What a joke.

    Although…
    “…
    (2) If any damage is committed by cattle permitted to run at large, the owner of the cattle shall be liable for all damages, whether the place where the damages occurred is inclosed by lawful fence or not. The person damaged shall have a lien on the cattle committing the damage for the amount of the damage and cost of suit.
    …”

  16. It seems the supporters are starting to question why if the attention is so upsetting, they dont just get off facebook. It will be interesting to see Joe AKA Charles Smyth offend or attack THAT many people at once. They will self destruct before the end of the year. Its a slippery slope, all this deception. I used to be a supporter, before i read this blog. It took a few days of reading past posts on the BLH page to realize there is something very wrong going on at the Naugler camp. I think they are their own worst enemies, and making yourselves a slave to public opinion because you are counting on their donations to live may be worse then just getting on the Dole and getting a check from the state every month.
    Good luck to the kids

  17. @Magnolia: Someone on Homeschoolers Anonymous passed on what they said was information from somebody who had known them back in the day (so, giant grain of salt). Nutshell: She was solvent, self-employed, and decently housed; then she met him and his bottomless appetite for drugs and thus for her money. She began to default on bills within a month and was living in a tent in a national park not long after. Further details suggested to other posters that this is the classic story of a user who found somebody who thought he was exciting or romantic or deep or had a kind of pain that only she could ease or something like that. If that’s the case, then everything has to be subordinated to her need to keep him near so she can get her supply of whatever emotional thing he supplies her with.

    Still think she’s a narcissist or something like it on top of that.

    But as I’ve posted before, all this amateur diagnosis is only useful if it predicts their future actions.

  18. The solution to not having wandering animals is to not have any animals at all. Ma and Pa already have too many mouths to feed that they don’t provide for.
    Helpless animals don’t need to be in the mix.

  19. And again, this is exactly why laws are so necessary. With the dozens of no trespassing signs posted on the Naugler property, alleged cameras, guns and who knows what else, approaching these two regarding a boundary issue would be risky, imho. The conversations Joe posted regarding ” protecting” his family coupled with the, ‘get my gun ‘ statements with the sheriff (run away daughter), and the water incident makes resolution outside of the courts a futile and dangerous enterprise. The only way I would feel safe is through the courts. And now she is looking for revenge. The Nauglers are a neighboring property owners worst nightmare.

  20. Thank you for creating this blog. The reason it exists is unfortunate–abused children and idiot parents. And here I thought the Duggar clan was bad…they look like saints almost. I’m wondering out of all these kids, which ones turn out to hate their parents and which ones end up continuing the cycle. I am so thankful for where and how I grew up, I didn’t want for a thing and it is because my father literally busted his butt to provide for us 6 kids and my mom who was the ultimate SAHM. For that knuckle headed father to think he is “protecting his family”…how about making sure they don’t get tetanus! I’m a registered nurse and I routinely give vaccinations and for the life of me, I can’t imagine why you would play with fire on the vaccination topic when you live in a dirt pile. But hey, what do I know. I come from suburban Maryland where our worst problem is if our neighbor’s paint their door blue instead of grey.

  21. It’s really a shame that Joe and Nicole Naugler insist, despite all evidence to the contrary, that fences and property lines are merely suggestions. That to be pure at heart prophets, voluntaryists, etc. is to trump the rights of all others.

    Joe and Nicole Naugler don’t appear to take anything very seriously unless they can put a price tag on it. Given how much they have given away (their children’s privacy), I doubt they understand true worth.

  22. They said they want peace . The drama stops . They even posted as their sock Ben calling a truce . They said friend or foe will be banned . Don’t engage . Their family needs peace .
    And then ……
    Hours of fighting with a poster and J calls her a CUNT. Lovely just lovely parents and people.
    Color me surprised.
    How’s that peace working out for you ?
    They truly disgust me , as I’ve always said hang on kids it’s not if its when CPS comes back for you .

  23. I’ve been following this train wreck since it started. I couldn’t believe that this poor family was being treated so unfairly. Then, I started reading blogs, Facebook posts, seen pics that will forever be stuck in my head and began to see a downward spiral thst began years ago. I see followers “admiring ” her and her way of life. What exactly is she blogging about? Homesteading gone wrong? Life in the garden shed? How to live off grid while living on grid?
    She’s accomplished nothing since this whole thing exploded when the children were removed. I would think or hope that they would have had livestock, chickens, a real garden, accommodations to can and pack food. What exactly are these supporters admiring? What is she “teaching ” them about homesteading/off grid living? They have been lucky thus far that nothing tragic has happened.

    Eleven children, no vacs, no real guidance and parents who are so ridiculously negligent means a tragedy waiting to happen.

    Seriously, who is taking care of these children? Ma and Pa are online from sun up until late into the night. Those beautiful children really don’t stand a chance.

    BTW, has anyone noticed she always refers to the children as “my children”? Never does she say “our children”.

  24. I read Nicole’s blog long before her children where taken. I took their frequent moves at face value and believed they were trying to better their lives. Sadly, it seems the moves were really just a result of problems. Lack of money, lack of help and income from Joe, involvement from child welfare.
    So…. I’m guessing they are moving the family to Indiana. Close enough to drive to the shop, but no homeschool yearly reports required from the state. She could have the kids make money selling homemade goods. Hey, it’s educational, and you don’t have to report the income for taxes (unless you want to follow the law). Darn the Kentucky government for catching them and forcing them to follow those pesky livestock at large and homeschool reporting laws.

    If they stay in Kentucky, they have to register with the state and keep homeschool records, which of course they don’t want to comply with. Thus, child welfare will be involved again.

    This is from the HSLDA:
    ” Indiana public school officials frequently request that parents seeking to homeschool their children complete an online “enrollment” form on the Indiana Department of Education website. This enrollment is not required under state law and is entirely voluntary. Contact HSLDA for more
    information.
    5. Although the child must be “provided with instruction equivalent to that given in public schools,” Ind.
    Code § 20-33-2-28, the State Board of Education is not given the authority to define “equivalent
    instruction” nor to approve home schools. Furthermore, Ind. Code § 20-33-2-12(a) has removed all
    subject requirements, leaving home schools without any mandatory subjects…”

    I believe Nicole loves Joe and her kids. They share this common belief of standing apart and living a life of freedom. They expect (and enjoy) when “whores of the state” don’t understand them. I have seen similar situations where a women loves her husband, but the man just doesn’t have the same work ethic or parenting skills. What are her choices? Leave him and be lonely? Stay with him and do 95 percent of the work herself and accept her fate? So the woman stays with the man she loves… and works and cleans and raises the kids, and the husband just ambles along and lets her do it. I feel sorry for Nicole. She needs a man who keeps the garden tended, keeps the goats away from the neighbors, values and assists the kids education, plans, shops, and cooks the meals while she works. Not just someone who shares her beliefs and lets the kids take charge of running the homestead (because it needs done and Dad isn’t going to do it).

  25. I have watched long before the kids were taken as well . I used to feel sorry for Nicole myself . Never a staunch supporter but I certainly had empathy for her . That all changed for me . When you call employers and try to mess with someone’s livelihood, post pics of deceased children, call people dead junkies then you lose . You lose whatever empathy I had left .

    Clearly J is not a good person , husband / dad or provider . But she is every bit the horrible person her husband is . If not more . She continues this downward spiral.

    While I’m blessed to have a husband who provides is a great dad for 2 decades now . I also know I am mom and should anything ever happen I can fully support my kids financially and physically. That’s what a education does I guess . I would never allow our / my children to grow up like that ever . She doesn’t deserve those kids . It’s always has and continues to break my heart on a daily basis . Those kids I just can’t ..I can’t go there in my mind .

  26. I don’t see Nicole as a victim. Long ago she could have stopped having children one way or another, when it was quite obvious they were in dire straits. However She chose to actively participate and continue to bring ever more children into severe poverty. In fact she continues to talk about having more children. Loneliness and bearing full responsibility as a single parent at this point, and fully utilizing all the social services and educational opportunities would be a far better life for all. After bringing so many lives into this world it is no longer about Nicole’s needs first. And that has always been the problem and illness, Nicole and Joe depriving their children based on their selfish ideas, imho.

  27. I hate to bring this up, but I may as well. If Joe and Nichole were readily identified as black or African American – does anyone here really think they would have received huge amounts of GFM money and significant internet support?

    Regardless of whether or not they sought assistance in feeding their children.

    I suspect they would have been carried away on an an internet tide of racist diatribes. The only reason they’ve gotten away with their incompetence and innuendo is that they happen to be white. Possibly their on-again, off-again association with the LDS is protecting them from some fallout. After all, they haven’t yet declared that they no longer wish to be amongst the members again/for keeps this time. Whatever. I suspect they’ll never really leave until they’ve burned through every community that offers them financial support.

  28. @FB refugee
    Well said . I wholeheartedly agree . Though I’ve always made a great salary , I would not hesitate to use any resources I had to if I was ever in that situation. I would do what any mom would do and wouldn’t feel bad or embarrassed about it . I do think the kids as well as J and N look to be eating better . I know how much I spend on groceries each month I don’t know how they keep up with feeding that many kids . I always wonder how often the kids are hungry. Victim she is not ! I see more kids in her near future . At this point she’s really tempting fate . Being advanced maternal age etc one of these times she’s not going to have a good outcome when birthing in the shed .

  29. Tekla said, “I hate to bring this up, but I may as well. If Joe and Nichole were readily identified as black or African American – does anyone here really think they would have received huge amounts of GFM money and significant internet support?Regardless of whether or not they sought assistance in feeding their children.”

    I agree. I also don’t think the viral controversial story would of had the oomph without the added appeal of “off the grid, homeschooling, homesteading, religious, large family.” As a whole, and individually, these are fashionable topics today. Most people have a perception in their mind, of what that looks like. A stereotype of a bit, if you will. The photos of the family, that Joe and Nicole used for the viral story, satiated the perception. The one for the GoFundMe and the SaveTheFamily.

    I too, was baited and hooked, line and sinker. Within probably 2 weeks later, in late May, and reading lots of other sources of information, perception adjusted to reality.

    But yeah, Lady Luck leaned in favor for Joe and Nicole with the GoFundMe. Change the color of their skin, and not so much. Even with the other fashionable topics.

  30. “They have personal space, and the rule is it can’t disrupt anyone else’s personal space.”

    The personal rule about not disrupting anyone else’s space was definitely NOT part of the conversation amongst a group of breastfeeding lovers and circumcision haters on a FB page shared by NN. Those folks are not into compromise and they know their rights, and wow, they are passionate believers in their own rightness. They want what they want, when and where they want it.

    Alrighty then, NO personal space and disrupting IS allowed for people who think differently. That kinda sounds familiar. It’s too bad that the evil transgressors (Boy Scouts) were only “verging on illegal” (that’s the same as an opinion, not a legal term), so may have escaped threats of lawsuits.

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