Cindy

Cindy Schott came over here and commented a while back, here. Here’s what she had to say.

This is a long-ass comment but the only part that even matters slightly is the first sentence and a bit in the center.

My name is Cindy and I was roommates with Cathy Harris in Bethesda girls home in Hattiesburg Mississippi.

i lived in this hell for 1 year Cathy lived there for 4. so at least 4 years of her life I know for a fact was lived in hell.

Cindy was Cathy’s roommate and Cathy was at Bethesda for FOUR YEARS.

The rest is just how awful Bethesda was and look it up.

There is a little history here. Cathy has infiltrated at least two of the former religious girls’ homes Facebook groups and asserted that she was there.  One is Bethesda. The other is Hephzibah House.  With the latter, she was found to have been lying, and she abruptly changed her story and declared that she hadn’t said she was actually a resident there, but that she almost went there.

For those who don’t know about these homes, they are pretty much the legacy of a man named Lester Roloff who started a home for boys in Texas many years ago.  Very religiously-oriented, these homes would make Joe Arpaio proud.  They are run like military boot camps. The typical resident is a troubled teenager, in some cases with parents who are at their wits’ end.

Former residents are all over the map in terms of their assessment of their time there.  Most didn’t want to go in the first place. Some of them say that it saved their lives.  Others say it nearly killed them. Some, many years later, still send the places Christmas cards and family photos.  Others can’t say a single nice word about it.

Cindy is obviously in the latter category.

But not content with explaining to us about what we should look up, she sent me a private message on Facebook.

So now it’s not four years, but “some time.”  And “criminal charges.”  Sigh.

And that was that.

Cindy has appeared again, this time on Cathy’s little page that she started so people will tell her how great she is. (She’s made dozens of these.)

Again there are only a couple of sentences that matter.

I met Cathy Harris at an unwed mothers home called Bethesda girls home in Hattiesburg Mississippi!

That doesn’t tell us anything new.

The facts I’m telling you are easy to find and there are hundreds of us! That can testify to Cathy living there!!!

Well, they didn’t teach her anything about writing complete sentences, it seems.  But if there are “hundreds” who can “testify,” I’d like to see them.

The only place I can find that Cathy ever mentions being at Bethesda is in the supposed letter that Richard Harris “wrote.

Here’s the pertinent parts.

And there’s the timeline.

According to “Richard Harris,” Cleo and Lou were arrested. That means that this arresting happened prior to February of 1977, because they couldn’t arrest a dead man.

Cathy was sent to live “in a foster home.”  But they were unsaved (GASP!), so Richard Harris wanted her to come live with his family,  and children’s services agreed.  We aren’t told how long Cathy was in this “unsaved foster home,” but we get the impression that it wasn’t long.

They tried but Cathy was just incorrigible, so they contacted a “Christian counselor.” That “counselor,” by the way, was Walt Fremont, who taught at Bob Jones University. Dave and I both knew Walt pretty well. Cathy wants us to believe that Richard Harris contacted him three times to consult about Cathy, and once took Cathy all the way to Greenville, SC for a meeting. I strongly doubt the story.

Anyway, Walt told Harris to put Cathy at Bethesda, so he did.

But she was not at Bethesda long, it says.  Not there long. She wasn’t there long because children’s services (the state) intervened and wouldn’t let her stay there.

And notice what comes next. She comes home and then they take her to see Walt in Greenville.  When did they do that?

They do that after Cleo died in police custody.

Cleo died in the spring of 1979, just a bit over two years after Lou died.

So, in a somewhat-longer-than two year period, Lou and Cleo were both arrested, Lou somehow managed to go back to the farm where Cathy was living (don’t ask me, I didn’t write this shit) and blow his brains out and Cathy found him and Cleo blamed her.  Cathy then went to live in a foster home, only didn’t stay and went to the Harrises who tried everything and Walt told them to send her to Bethesda and they did and then had to bring her home again because the god damned state wouldn’t let her stay there, and then Cleo died in police custody and Cathy was taken to see Walt in Greenville.

Have we got all that straight?

Here’s some other stuff that is interesting.  Big pictures.

This is a page from the yearbook from Upper Bucks Christian School, which was the Christian school associated with Richard Harris’ church (Bethel Baptist Church).  This is 1978.  Lou had been dead for a year.

Cathy is pictured and listed as “Salina Smith.”

Here she is in 1980, two years later.  At this point, Cleo had been dead for a year.  Now, she’s “C. Harris.”

And this is 1981.

And there she is, graduating. Graduating from Upper Bucks Christian School.

This was not a big school. There were only about 25-30 students in each grade. If a student was there in the fall to have her photo made for the annual, and then was not there for the entire rest of the year, especially if that student was living with the school’s head administrator and using his name, don’t you think somebody would have noticed?

She was there. She attended that school, as Cathy Harris from at least the fall of 1979 until she graduated in the spring of 1983.

So why does this matter?

So Karen asks Cindy how old Cathy was when they were there, and Cindy just isn’t sure.  Furthermore, she wasn’t allowed to talk with Cathy about much of anything, to the point that she had no idea how old she was or where she was from.

But they were roommates and she knew that Cathy was there for four years.

Cindy kept telling me to just go Google Bethesda.  So I did.

And it’s odd.

There really isn’t a whole lot out there about it.  Not nearly what Cindy implied I’d find.  But one thing I did find was a link to Bethesda Girls Home Facebook page. They also have a closed group here.

On the Facebook page, Cindy had left a couple of comments.

Cindy was at Bethesda from October 21, 1980 until October 21, 1981.

You know, she was there, in Hattiesburg, Mississippi,  while Cathy was busy being a student at Upper Bucks Christian School in Bucks County, Pennsylvania.

And they were roommates.

 

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34 thoughts on “Cindy”

  1. One wonders what led Cindy to being a resident of Bethesda Girls Home. It couldn’t have been lying. Giving false witness and testimony. An incredibly incredulous imagination.

    Awesome investigating! Man, this sure is some deep wabbit hole.

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  2. And this is why compulsive liars are always outed. It’s just too hard to keep everything straight.

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  3. Did Cleo die in police custody?

    No. Cleo was never in police custody that I know of.

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  4. The reasons girls found themselves in these places could be anything. There is NO reason that in any way justifies the abuses that went on in these homes.

    As for Cathy. What I suspect happened here, is Cathy told Cindy that she remebered her. (Yes that simple) No one in these places knew last names and you were never allowed to discuss personal aspects of your life. When Cathy originally told me she went to HH, I had no reason to not believe her. Who would lie about such a thing? Also keep in mind that these places are hell, the likes of which you cannot imagine. So we are sort of predisposed to protect someone who survived that very same hell.

    Cindy may well have attended with someone named Cathy. And Cathy Harris manipulated her into believing it was her. This is what she does. She lies and manipulates others. Why? Hell if I know. I still haven’t figured her out.

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  5. Cindy may well have attended with someone named Cathy. And Cathy Harris manipulated her into believing it was her.

    This is absolutely the best explanation/hypothesis of this that I can imagine, knowing what I know. And the person writing knows what she is talking about.

    The fault comes when the gullible person goes apeshit and writes a bunch of crap to a stranger for nothing more than simply saying that I don’t believe Cathy. Cindy threatened me with “criminal charges” for that – for saying that I do not believe Cathy Harris. I don’t care what happened to Cindy when she was young, she is not young now and she’s had plenty of time learn how to cope with reality, just like other people have. Lots of other people had horrendous shit happen to them as children/teenagers.

    But yes, the likely situation is what Amy describes here.

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  6. I think the reason why some former inmates remember the homes fondly and some want them obliterated and the ground salted (figure of speech) is that abusers don’t generally abuse everybody. They have their special pets and their targets. Of course, these roles are assigned based on events in the abuser’s mind–whims, prejudices, etc.–and may change at any time.

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  7. Oh, also, for those who don’t know, here’s a partial list of things that might land you in a home like these or one of those damnable boot camps for kids: being in trouble with the law, being interested in fashions/books/games/music/movies that are forbidden in your church, being interested in a branch of Christianity that your parents have decided is wrong, being interested in a different religion, being irreligious, being gay, being trans, being sad and quiet, having learning disabilities (no I am not exaggerating–some congregations preach learning disabilities as rebellion from the pulpit), having a mental illness (ditto), having sex, being suspected of having sex, being suspected of wanting to have sex, asking questions, arguing about politics, and protesting being abused.

    People have come out of these places with genuine PTSD and depression. Somebody pretending to have been through what other people are trying hard to get over–she should be ashamed!

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  8. Why did Salina change her name to Cathy to begin with? I understand why her last name changed, but I don’t know why Salina was changed to Cathy? Was Cathy her birth name and she changed it back to that?

    I can’t believe how this woman doubles down. You’ve exposed her over and over. I don’t think she realizes how many people will be reading this time as you have a bigger audience with BLB.

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  9. Why did Salina change her name to Cathy to begin with? I

    From Cathy’s own records on Ancestry.com, she has Cleo’s mother listed as Salina C. Smith. I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the “C” is for Catherine. That means that Cleo kidnapped Lou’s daughter, aided by Lou, when she was three years old, for the purpose of sexual slavery, and named her for her mother.

    🙂

    It’s for certain that Cathy’s name now is Catherine Salina Harris. At least, that is how she is listed in the annual as a high-school senior, and every legal document I’ve seen (court stuff, eviction notices, LPN license) has her as Catherine S. Harris.

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  10. Now Cathy says she was never in the foster system, she was merely told that she was. Who decided she couldn’t be in the girls home if it wasn’t foster care?

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  11. Now Cathy says she was never in the foster system, she was merely told that she was.

    It’s all sort of amazing. She ranted for years that Richard Harris was so horrible and evil because he collected state foster care money for her and didn’t adopt her until she aged out. But now, she was never in foster care and I am so stupid.

    But then, “Harris” says she couldn’t be at Bethesda because of the state, but oh, yeah, now he’s evil. Only Richard Harris didn’t write that in the first place. Cathy did.

    Only a brain-dead moron would believe her about anything.

    One of my recurring nightmares is about being in a nursing home and having her as a nurse. I’d just go ahead and die and get it over with.

    But it’s entirely possible that she really was never in the foster system. I suspect that Cleo named Harris as her guardian in her will, and if that’s the case, the court may very well have simply agreed with that and that would have been the end of it.

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  12. I suspect she would have been in foster at least temporarily even if Harris was named guardian in a will. It takes some time to sort out those things and I very much doubt they would just let her live with him without some oversight before the will/estate were probated.

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  13. How in the world did this woman get a driver’s license, or married, or anything else without a birth certificate? If she was adopted, then it will show Richard Harris and his wife; but surely there was an earlier one.

    I can’t imagine the state of PA not insisting upon proof of identity, even in the late 1970’s, when an estate was in probate. I wonder if Cathy/Salina was upset that the executor of the estate was paid any money at all, despite it being completely expected and done all the time. Nor can I imagine that while in foster care the state agreeing to send her out of state for any length of time. Particularly to an unaccredited, unlicensed (?) institution.

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  14. How in the world did this woman get a driver’s license, or married, or anything else without a birth certificate?

    Her story has always been that they sorted all that out when a) Cleo was arrested and in police custody, OR b) after Cleo died. Depends on which version you’re reading.

    And she claims that the Christian schools she attended didn’t demand a birth certificate, that Cleo kept telling them she couldn’t find it and would bring in it later and later never came.

    All I know is that there would not have been any guardianship hearing without one.

    And yes, Bethesda, like the other infamous homes, was not licensed. That was the major beef about Roloff, that he refused any state licensing or inspections.

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  15. Nope. Under Pennsylvania law at that time, and even now, a parent or guardian could not only name a guardian in their will (or during illness) but it was respected by the courts. No involvement of foster care necessary, only the court. Only if the proposed guardian was incapacitated, dead, jailed or refused would it effect the parental wishes.

    However, I very much doubt that the guardianship went through and was ruled on by the court without proper identification, birth certificate, of the minor involved and a chain of documents proving the parent or guardian who was dying or dead had the legal right to the child.

    So, the question is how would a kidnapped child get passed along without proper identification?

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  16. Also with her parent deceased Cathy, as a minor, would have been eligible for social security benefits. That alone may have been a contributing factor to waiting for a formal adoption until she was 18. Assuming that Cathy, even as teen, was like she is now I think that Harris was gracious to have adopted her at any point.

    Guess what? Collecting social security benefits would have also required proper documentation. If Cleo was married to Canby and she sought to be named legal guardian or adopt Cathy that would not have effected the social security benefits available upon Canby’s death had he indeed been Cathy’s biological and legal father.

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  17. Just for Cathy’s benefit, Lisa is an actual, real, honest-to-god retired attorney. Not “Beth James,” the fake. The real deal. There is also at least one other attorney (currently practicing) who reads this blog pretty regularly and comments from time to time.

    That’s not any sort of threat, mind you. It’s simply an FYI thing, so you understand that she knows what she is talking about.

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  18. Sally, have you ever had any real dialog with Cathy? Anytime where she attempted to explain herself, or take responsibility for misleading people to outright lying? Has she addressed any of the “facts” you’ve found that contradicts her story?

    I saw on her little Facebook page that she’s alluding to Richard Harris, the “Pastor” hiding her location from the Canby family and without outright naming him she “alleges much mental, physical and sexual abuse occurred as a child during this period.” What a sick thing to do!

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  19. Has she addressed any of the “facts” you’ve found that contradicts her story?

    Never. She ignores them and deflects. Always.

    She came over to the old blog, I think, maybe once. (Or maybe not. I know Linda Fossen did, but I’m not certain about Cathy.) Mostly, she goes to Twitter and attacks me there. She tags me over and over and over, to the point that I had to block her Twitter account. I have Twitter set up so that if somebody tags me, I get an email notification. I need it to be that way for other reasons. She was a massive pest.

    I went completely silent, said nothing about her, didn’t write a single word on that site for seven solid months. She never let up on Twitter. I wasn’t reading it, but a couple of other people told me that she was still at it.

    Yet she insists that I need to “leave her alone.”
    And she’s being relatively careful about Richard Harris. He’s alive, as far as I know. And that means libel.

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  20. For people who claim they want to be left alone these two women Cathy and Nicole spend an awful lot of their time crying “Red Rover, Red Rover, Send Sally over.” It’s hysterically funny the competition between the two to get you to write about them. “Write a blog about THAT, Sally.” “Are you listening. Are you paying attention.” I will leave out the expletives they both love to use as a trail of “candy” in the hopes that they can rile you into a blog post about them. It’s interesting both of them project their own wants and weaknesses onto others over and over again never realizing that the only thing they are accomplishing is that they are revealing their own wants and weaknesses. I suppose it’s near impossible to suss out what will engage someone else’s attention or “get to them” when one lacks any empathy at all. Neither of them can see beyond their noses. So I suppose one, or both of them, are “green eyed with jealousy wanting their cut of the grift” and “psychobitches.”

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  21. I see that Darla Huber was also a classmate from at least 1978 – 1983. I hope she achieved her goal of earning that nursing degree.

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  22. One of Cathy’s supporters is upset that I mentioned DNA testing. Well, that’s because it’s a tool to establish identity. After all, Cathy “found” or was found by her other “real” family years ago. The woman has no credibility.

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  23. This is sad to read – particularly as the young man died in Korea. I doubt the medals made his family feel any better about his loss.

    August, 1952

    Co. A, 5th Cavalry Rtgt.-Pjc. Roy (Sonny)
    Canby was reported missing July 25, 1950. Any
    information about him will be appreciated by his
    father. Gold Canby, Route 1. Boswell, Pa.

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  24. Since the Canby family has found Cathy, she is changing her narrative that it was the “Pastor” underwhich she suffered much “physical, mental and sexual abuse.” The Canby’s are helping her unlock those memories so that Papa Lou isn’t the bad guy anymore. She’s cunning! Without outright naming Richard Harris it’s clear to see who she is alluding to and lays it all at his feet.

    I wonder what her endgame is? Where does she expect this all to go? I feel bad for the Harris family.

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  25. I feel bad for both the Harris family and the Canby family who have not realized yet that they have let a viper into their midst. All my opinion, naturally.

    As to DNA testing you would think that Cathy would be all over that. After all hasn’t she been searching for her real family since she was abducted and thrown into a trunk at 3 years old. Unless of course she is full of shit about that and, well, everything.

    I have a particular distaste for liars, particularly liars who claim child abuse, rape, etc. As I have said before it takes an enormous amount of work to get the average person to even believe that such horrendous things happen. Most people don’t want to know or cannot even imagine it because they are nice normal humans. Every liar who comes along and makes false claims negates that hard work. The liars cause immeasurable damage to the system of credibility necessary. It gives people excuses to believe it doesn’t happen and that there are just hysterical crazy women (and men) out there who make this shit up. It hurts not only the work that advocates do but it hurts the victims. It hurts the real victims in so many ways. In my world view the perpetrators of harm to children are the worst, but coming a close second are liars, who for whatever reason, claim victimhood. Most are easily discredited but the damage they do to the credibility of each real victim is immeasurable.

    The majority of real victims never come forward because, among other reasons, they are afraid no one will believe them or that nothing will be done about it and to an extent they are correct. It is damn hard to get a prosecution of the perpetrators in these cases. Fake victims are to blame for quite a bit of this. That I have seen more times than you can imagine. Jurors who refuse to convict because after all there was that lady in the news three years ago who lied about it all, so evidence whatever.

    One other thing: real threat of rape? Are you kidding me? Explain to me how the tip of an iceberg joke is an actual threat of rape? Seriously, I really would be interested to see how their minds leapt to that conclusion. It might explain a lot about why she lies so much. Fucking lunatics.

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  26. Well spoken, Lisa.

    False victimhood via liars, is deplorable. I agree, it stains credibility for the real cases.

    If only there were legal consequences for that bullshit.

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  27. If only there were legal consequences for that bullshit.

    Cathy skirts it by not naming her supposed rapist (despite his conviction and being on the sexual predator list for the rest of his life). If she named someone who wasn’t convicted, then she could be in trouble.

    “…under defamation laws in most states, falsely accusing someone of having committed a crime is considered “defamatory per se” or “actionable per se.” That means harm is taken as a given in the eyes of the law, and harm to your reputation is presumed”

    Rape is a serious charge and falsely accusing someone of committing it should be regarded as equally serious. I don’t know that 100 days is enough, but at least it’s a good start.

    http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2016/08/woman_sentenced_to_100_days_in.html

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  28. Cathy Harris has posted a death certificate that has no indication she died in police custody.

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  29. In the interest of accuracy, Cleo WAS taken into custody once. Basically for being a crabby complaining battle ax who was pissed off that the police wouldn’t do what she WANTED them to do. Regardless of the laws.

    Reminds me of someone. Maybe two someones.

    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/185170882/

    By TYREE JOHNSON If Cleo M. Smith lives to be 90, she says she’d still be “more responsible” than the police officer who handcuffed her and tried to drag her out of her home after a sergeant called her “nuts.” The widow and retired real estate broker is 78. Yesterday, she filed a $20,000 suit in U. S. District Court against five police officers and the city claiming police illegally entered her home, assaulted her and im7, prisoned her against her will last Aug. 12. Police Commissioner Joseph F. O’Neill declined comment while the case is in litigation. MRS. SMITH said she called police to have some loiterers moved off the front steps of her home on Broad St. near Berks. Mrs. Smith says the loiterers refused to move and the police told her, “They’re not bothering anybody. Go in the house and shut your mouth.” Mrs. Smith says she called police again and a sergeant arrived and told her there was nothing they could do about the loiterers, who were young workers renovat

    “I couldn’t believe that,” says Mrs. Smith, who called police a third time with “the whole force showing up.” At this point, Mrs. Smith says, the sergeant began asking her “personal” questions and “put his face up to mine. His lip curled and he told me, ‘You’re nuts.’

    Mrs. Smith says police came into the vestibule of her home where they attempted to drag her out and handcuff her hands behind her back. She says she was “shaking and crying” and pleading for them not to handcuff her. THE WOMAN, who lived in the home since 1939, was placed in a police van that she says was “sweltering hot. I was in there for an hour and a half while they just drove around,” charges Mrs. Smith, whose husband, Carlton, was killed in an auto accident in 1954. Police took Mrs. Smith to Philadelphia General Hospital where she was “allowed to make a phone call” and a nurse told police she didn’t belong in the hospital’s psychiatric ward

    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/185170786/

    trying to handcuff her and taking ‘ her to a hospital after calling her “nuts.” ;; Mrs. Cleo M. Smith, of Broad St. near Berks, said she had called police last Aug. 12, to ask them to remove loiterers from her front steps. – ;Tl- loiterers refused to move, said Mrs. ‘Smith In her suit filed iff ttfc :District Court ‘and police told her to “go in the house and shut your mouth.” Later, more police arrived with a sergeant whom the widow, a retired real estate broker, claims told her “You’re nuts.” Mrs. Smith added she was placed in a “hot” police wagon and taken to Philadelphia General Hospital where a nurse refused to admit her

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  30. https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/44315643/

    Woman sues Philly cops for calling her ‘nuts’ PHILADELPHIA (UPI) – An elderly Philadelphia woman is suing five policemen for calling her “nuts,” handcuffing her and driving her to a local hospital after she asked them to remove juveniles loitering outside her home. Cleo Smith, 78, a widow, Wednesday also named the city as a defendant in her $20,000 damage suit in U.S. District Court. “I like to feel that a policeman is an honorable man, and that he is here to protect me,” she said at a news conference, “not to treat me like…an animal.” Mrs. Smith said she called police to her north Philadelphia home the morning of last Aug. 12 to have them remove two youths who were sitting on her doorsteps. She claimed that when the officers arrived, they walked up to her and said, “Go in the house and shut your mouth. “I didn’t think that was right,” she said. So, Mrs. Smith called the police again and a sergeant arrived. The sergeant said he could do nothing about the youths and left. She again telephoned police and the sergeant returned to her house with four other officers. Mrs. Smith said the sergeant told her she would be taken to Philadelphia General Hospital. “I asked them why,” she said, “and he said they were going to take me to the psychiatric ward because ‘You’re nuts.'” She said she never had been treated for a mental disorder. According to the woman, police handcuffed her–until she finally persuaded the officers to remove them–and took her to Philadelphia General Hospital. Mrs. Smith said she was suing “because 1 couldn’t believe things like this could happen in America.” Police refused comment on the case.

    Cathy may hate Cleo even now, but the truth of the matter is that she’s a lot like her. Not as shrewd though.

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  31. I just laugh at the story of Cleo and the kids on the steps. She was apparently a cranky old lady. 🙂

    In many ways it reminds me of the Nicole vs Viv episode with the multiple phone calls to the police.

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