Belted

videostill

This was August 10, 2013.  Joe, driving their van, was pulled over because the officer thought that at least one of the children was not properly belted.

Here’s the transcript.

The video is shot from Nicole’s perspective, riding shotgun. We can see part of Joe, the steering wheel, the driver’s window and the police officer.

Joe: You pulled me over for what –

Officer: (very indistinct because Joe and Nicole are much closer to the mike) That child does not have a –

Joe: because you assumed that he didn’t have a. . . he fucking did.

Nicole: It’s a lap belt. It’s a lap belt.

Officer: The seat belt is supposed to go across his chest.

Nicole: It’s a lap belt. This is a 2002, a 15-passenger van. It has a. . .

Officer: It’s a seat belt that is supposed to go across his chest. And it’s not.

Nicole: It’s on the way it’s supposed to be. I’m not sure what else I can do.

Joe: (turns around, apparently to look in the back) Yeah, it’s across his chest, right now.

Officer: I just pulled you over, and it’s going across his chest.

Joe: It was going across his chest before.

Officer: No. . .

Joe: Yes, it was.

Nicole: It looks that way because of what it is. It looks that way because of the way it is.

[Officer steps away from the window, out of view.]

Joe: Yep. It’s no big deal.

Child’s voice from the back: (low and indistinct) . . . it’s supposed to be. . .

[At this point, it appears like Nicole got out of the van, setting down the phone, or at least opened the door and then closed it.

They sit there, Joe looking through what appears to be documents from his wallet, perhaps.]

Joe: (to children in back) I told you guys to buckle up. Buckle up right.

Nicole: They are. They are in their seat belts the way that they go.

Child’s voice: The other one was ripped off, so he’s going to have to use that one. I can’t find the other one.

Joe: Everybody’s got proper seat belts? Everybody’s got manufactured – factured, warranteed. . .

Nicole: That’s the way it goes.

Joe: . . . fucking assholes.

Nicole: (very quietly) watch your language, please

Joe: . . starts yelling at me and slamming his finger in my face. . .

[For the record, the officer never raised his voice, nor did he “slam a finger.” The voices being raised were coming from Joe and Nicole.]

Nicole: (turns camera and we can see the rear of the vehicle with seats occupied by children) There’s two of them. For a seat belt violation.

Joe: Oh, he’s called more. Oh, he’s called. He called it in.

Some children’s voices from the rear, mostly gibberish and “Mom”

Joe: All right, everybody quiet so I can hear what’s going. . . (indistinct) get out of the van (little laugh)

Nicole: . . he asked you if you wanted to fight, basically. . .

Joe: That’s what he did. That’s why I said, start recording right now. Wants to pick a fight with me because he thinks one of my kids isn’t buckled up right.

Nicole: He was going to climb in the vehicle, and I said, no way, um, I’m not comfortable with you getting in my car. And he said, “oh, you want to play that way” I should have started recording before he pulled me over but I was trying to get my phone out of my pocket

Joe: Have you got some time?

Nicole: Yeah, it should go for 25 minutes at least.

Joe: Yeah, as soon as you start to question them, they wanna pick a fight. What did he say? “Okay we’ll have it that way.” What a joke. Somebody actually. . . somebody actually. . .fuck.

Officer (reappears at window): How old’s the child in the back right?

Second officer appears in view in background.

Nicole: I don’t have to give you that information.

Officer: You don’t have to give information. . .

Nicole: I don’t have to give you that information, no. I don’t.

Officer: There is a booster law in Kentucky, okay, that requires a . . .

Nicole: He’s above that age. That’s my word for it.

Officer: Is he over 41 inches?

Nicole: I give you my word for it. He’s old enough to be out of a booster seat.

Second officer (who has now come closer to the window): Huh?

Nicole: I will say he’s old enough to be out of a booster seat. That’s. . .

Second officer: It’s not about the age. It’s the height.

Nicole: I understand that. My child is old enough to be out of a booster seat.

Second officer: We have to measure him in order to . . . find out . . . if they’re over. . .

Nicole: Um, I’m not going to allow you to do anything to my child without a warrant.

Second officer: Without a what?

Nicole: Without a warrant. You’re not touching or . . . (indistinct) my child. . .

Second officer: What do you think this is?

Joe: America.

Second officer: Right. I know. But there’s laws that you have to follow.

Nicole: Right.

Joe: We do, but (indistinct arguing). Just like this guy. We started. . .

Second officer: Listen, I don’t have any (dog in this fight – indistinct )

Joe: (indistinct): . . . fight. . .

Nicole: I understand that. I’m just telling you that you’re not gonna. . . But I’m gonna tell you right now, I’m not going to let you do anything to my child. I give you my word that he’s old enough to be in that seat. . .

Second officer: Okay. The only other way to do that is to cite you all for the violation. . .

Joe: and court.

Nicole . . .and we go to court. And we’ll talk it up with the judge.

Joe: And we’ve got it all recorded. We’ve got this young man – as soon as we start to say there’s nothing wrong, he said “oh yeah” and “we’ll have it this way then.” Picking a fight. We’ve got it all. And we’ll be glad to show the judge.

Nicole: Hey, he tried coming in my van and I told him. . .

Joe: I don’t have time to deal with this. I’m an American citizen. I have rights. You guys have your guns and that’s fine. You have your authority and you have to pass unconstitutional laws and you have to enforce them. . .

Second officer: What he saying is that the child wasn’t restrained.

Joe: The child was restrained.

Nicole: And I’m saying he was, so it’s his word against mine. And I don’t make money off of it and he does, so

Second officer: Well, that’s his statement.

Joe: Did you see it?

Second officer: No, I didn’t see it.

Joe: All you know is that he started acting aggravated because we became a little obstinate. . . Because he just started to plow through my car.

Nicole: He tried to come in my car and we told him that we weren’t allowing him in my car.

Second officer: The only thing I seen was your being elevated. . .

Joe: Well, he screamed at me first.

Second officer: Well, I didn’t see that.

Joe: This is your buddy, I got you.

Second officer: No. I’m saying I didn’t see that because I just pulled up.

Joe: Well, he yelled first, I mean

Second officer: I’ve been there the whole time. . .

Nicole: He got upset because we wouldn’t let him in the car.

Joe: I got you. I got you.

Second officer: It’s not cool of you to make accusations at me. I haven’t done anything to you.

Joe: What if I did, though?

Second officer: Huh?

Joe: What if I did make accusations?

Second officer: You didn’t make accusations?

Joe: No. What if I did?

Second officer: What do you mean?

Joe: I don’t know. .

Second officer: Where are you going with this? (Smiles broadly)

Nicole: (garbled) telling you what’s gonna happen.

Second officer: He’s writing you guys a ticket, okay. You guys will have a court date and you guys can work with a judge, so. . .

Joe: We’ll be glad to work with. .

Second officer: Alrighty, guys (walking away)

Joe: and the paper and everything else.

Nicole: It’s their word against mine. My son was buckled up. I don’t know what else they can do. But I don’t profit from the seat belt laws and they do, so I guess if that’s how they want to play it.

Joe: . . start recording right away.

Nicole: Seat belts buckled?

Joe: everybody was

Child: yes

Nicole: No, I’m asking was the cop properly buckled, cause I don’t think he was. I think we should give him a citation for not being properly buckled and he can’t prove that he was

Joe: He’s on his phone. They are gonna try to get away with something else.

Voice (maybe a child): (garbled)

Joe: I want everybody fixed because. . .

Nicole: If they come back and see (indistinct), they’re gonna start finding stuff.

[Low conversation between Nicole and children in the background ]

Nicole: Over [child’s name], yes.

[more conversation among the children]

Child: we’re going to court. We got a ticket and we’re going to court.

Joe: Guys. Make sure your seat belts are on right. Make sure your straps are on right.

Nicole: [child’s name], make sure you sit right. Sit right, [child’s name] Put it under his lap. Fix it for him, [child’s name]. Fix it for him.

Joe: I’m telling you, they hire the most ego-maniacs they can. And they love that government school crap, and then they follow orders. They don’t even care. I bet you ask these guys what the Constitution is – they ain’t gotta clue. They couldn’t cite you one thing. All’s they know is what their supervisor told them this morning. Oh, and they added 15-passenger vans. They have to have seat belts.

Nicole: I’m gonna ask him that when he comes back.

Joe: No, you’re not going to ask him anything. Now remember, he said he wasn’t going to write this ticket until we gave him a hard time.

Nicole: Yeah, meaning I wouldn’t let him in my van.

Joe: That’s right. You’re not coming in my van. You’re not just gonna blatantly walk up like you think you own the place. Did you get the whole squabble thing?

Nicole: I don’t know when it started. I can check it afterwards.

Joe: No, I told you to start recording at that point.

Nicole: I was trying to fumble for my phone.

Joe: started acting like a tough guy. When I said record, that’s when he calmed down a little bit. And the other officer is “no I saw you elevated.” Yeah. I’m sure he did, cause he’s your buddy. Ah, you can’t make accusations like that. Okay, well, what if I do make accusations like that? You gonna be a tough guy now? He’s like, “What?”

Nicole: (makes garbled comment)

Joe: Fill in the blanks. Let’s go. They just want to know how many tickets to write us. He’s gonna make me sign something. Should I sign it?

Nicole: No.

Joe: I refuse to sign it. What if he threatens to arrest me? For not signing. What do I say, that I refuse to sign it. What do I say? I just say I don’t know.

And the recording ends there.

But the story doesn’t, of course.  Joe was given a ticket, as the officer said.

citationrecord

His hearing was scheduled, rescheduled, rescheduled yet again and then dismissed.

It was dismissed because the officer in question didn’t show up.  He didn’t show up because of this.

mattisentence

This incident had just occurred, and Matti was on suspension (ultimately fired).

But let’s read Nicole’s account of all this.

fromnicolesblog1

fromnicolesblog2

It’s amazing.  Of course, we’re dealing here with the portion of the recording that she chose to make public.  We have no idea what came before, but it’s odd to me that she insists that everyone was buckled up fine, yet during the recording, it’s quite clear that both she and Joe were pretty frantically adjusting seat belts and fixing everything, and one of the kids quite clearly says that at least one belt is not functioning.

Joe: (to children in back) I told you guys to buckle up. Buckle up right.

Nicole: They are. They are in their seat belts the way that they go.

Child’s voice: The other one was ripped off, so he’s going to have to use that one. I can’t find the other one.

Joe: Everybody’s got proper seat belts? Everybody’s got manufactured – factured, warranteed. . .

They don’t have spare seat belts in vehicles.  If one was “ripped off,” then it’s not working.  I am not making up what this child said. It is quite clear on the recording. I didn’t release that recording publicly.  Nicole did.

Furthermore, Joe tells the second officer that he has it all recorded. But then, it’s clear that they don’t.  This was Joe blustering of course, trying to intimidate the officer.

But then, in her account, she says that the officer “was crooked.”  And “no surprises.”

Her insinuation is that Joe was not guilty because the officer was subsequently fired (and faced criminal charges) for some very bad behavior.

This is, of course, faulty reasoning.  The officer’s guilt or innocence in those separate charges has nothing whatever to do with whether or not the Naugler kid was properly belted. Yes, the charges were dismissed because officer had royally fucked up and couldn’t be present to testify. But that doesn’t mean Joe was innocent. That means he was lucky.

But the larger issue here to me is the recording itself. This was almost two years before the children were taken, but Joe and Nicole already had an adversarial attitude when it came to the police.  They went into defense mode from the second the cop pulled them over.  All the bullshit like this.

Joe: I don’t have time to deal with this. I’m an American citizen. I have rights. You guys have your guns and that’s fine. You have your authority and you have to pass unconstitutional laws and you have to enforce them. . .

They create their own problems.

It would be nice, though, if Joe actually knew fuck-all about what he’s talking about.  As the recording makes clear, he doesn’t. He has to ask Nicole what to do about stuff.

Joe: Fill in the blanks. Let’s go. They just want to know how many tickets to write us. He’s gonna make me sign something. Should I sign it?

Nicole: No.

Joe: I refuse to sign it. What if he threatens to arrest me? For not signing. What do I say, that I refuse to sign it. What do I say? I just say I don’t know.

 

133 thoughts on “Belted”

  1. I could barely read this, it is so frustrating. Sally, how do you manage to write this blog without consuming large quantities of alcohol? The Naugler stupid just goes round and round, it never stops.

  2. Ah, yes, the seat-belt video. This episode hits all the Naugler trademarks. Lying, evasion, hostility, cursing, and one of the most hilarious deflection moments ever – the bit where Nicole speculates that the officer hadn’t been wearing HIS seat belt.

    Her knee-jerk deflections always remind me of that stupid grade-school retort: “I know you are, but what am I?”

  3. I have always believed Nicole pulls Joe around like a good little puppy.

    He cannot function AT ALL without her.

    Both are evil nasty people. She is just much worse.

  4. Can someone post a link to the video? I can’t find it. I just want to hear it for myself, the tone, tone says a lot.

  5. “It’s a lapbelt”
    “It’s across his chest”

    Pretty sure it’s a rare day that anyone is buckled in properly in the HMS Naugler. That thing is/was obviously a hazard going down the road. Broken seatbelts? Really? That’s an easy fix, provided you’re not a lazy piece of shit.
    Most of the kids need a seat or booster. Height is the factor. It’s a safety issue. Because police officers HATE scraping Children off roads. It cuts into their extortion time. /Sarc

  6. Can someone post a link to the video?

    You can’t find it because Nicole removed it. If I put my copy on YouTube, she will have it removed. So I do a transcript which she cannot have removed.

  7. Hopefully in the case of a blessed little motor vehicle accident all those kids are buckled up in functioning seatbelts and safety seats.

    Car seats can be a major pain in the ass, but so is planning a funeral for your kid.

    Maybe, don’t have so many kids if you can’t even be bothered to buckle them in.

    Car seats can be expensive, I have 3 kids in my car regularly and have invested around 500 bucks on car seats. Approx 200 on the convertible seat, 100ish for the high backed booster and about 200 on a tiny baby seat, but those kids are protected!

    Many kids hospitals will give you free car seats of you can’t afford them, at least in my area.

    Ma and Pa, don’t skimp on life saving equipment. Your kids are not magically blessed to be 100% ok after a wreck.

  8. Nicole and Joe lie. They speak lies, they make video recordings of lies and they make audio recordings of the lies they want you, their followers and supporters, to see and believe. They edit audio and they edit video and then they tell you the story they want you to believe. They show you the story they want you to see.

    The really sad thing is that you swallow it, time after time after time. That’s the thing that blows me away. No matter how many times the lies are exposed, you keep on believing them. I hope you understand that by doing so, you are complicit in denying those kids…their own beds, their own rooms, of a mom and dad who shoulder the burden of raising them instead of the children raising their brothers and sisters while the mom and dad burn up social media.

  9. “It’s not about the age it’s about the height’

    “I’m telling you the child is old enough to be out of a booster”

    See…lack of understanding….the cop said you have to be a certain height not age, he even said it numerous times.

  10. Nicole: [child’s name], make sure you sit right. Sit right, [child’s name] Put it under his lap. Fix it for him, [child’s name]. Fix it for him.
    ******
    So is she telling one child to tuck another child’s seatbelt “under his lap,” so it looks like it’s fully functioning? “Fix it for him.” Hey Ma! Why don’t you make sure all seat belts are fully functioning and fastened properly each time you load up your children in your van?
    The amount of luck that has favored these two drives me crazy.

  11. Sometimes I think that these adults “spin the truth” so many times that they forget the exact truth. Somewhat like a child’s “I said it so it’s true” logic, except they are adults. Sometimes I give them that much credit; but…this…her retelling is just a blatant lie. And she has to know it.

  12. So is she telling one child to tuck another child’s seatbelt “under his lap,” so it looks like it’s fully functioning?

    It’s hard to be certain, but yes, that is how it appears.

  13. …her retelling is just a blatant lie.

    What is sort of interesting to me is to listen to Joe asking the officer “What if I did make accusations?” It’s very clear from the look on the officer’s face and his response that he had no idea what Joe was talking about. Hell, I really don’t and I am used to reading Joe-speak.

    Yet, after the officer steps away, and Joe is retelling the whole thing for the benefit of Nicole who witnessed and recorded it (dunno why), he says:

    Ah, you can’t make accusations like that. Okay, well, what if I do make accusations like that? You gonna be a tough guy now? He’s like, “What?”

    His tone, his inference, was that the cop understood him perfectly well and that Joe was standing up to him and the cop was all backing down. That’s not what happened at all. The police officer thought Joe was a blithering idiot and it showed in his face. He had no idea what Joe meant. He was not in the least bit intimidated by Joe Naugler.

    In the space of less than five minutes, Joe had spun that encounter into something it absolutely was not.

  14. This is off topic, but something I found kinda interesting. Maybe some of you will find it interesting, too. If I ever write a book about the “homestead family who went VIRAL and became international news”…I have a feeling this resource is going to be invaluable.

    A lot of really old Nicole Journals are still available on the WayBack Machine…an internet resource that can take you back in time to brows things that have since been deleted, or web pages that have expired renewals. (Never forget that that internet is written in ink)

    Here’s a fun one from 2011 about the new house the Naugs were moving into at the time. A real house. Wonder what happened to this place?

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150515054618/http://blessedlittlehomestead.blogspot.com/2011/06/new-house.html

    https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://blessedlittlehomestead.org/
    A lot available to look at and read.

    If you’re ever reading an article about the Naugs and find a link to content that has been removed, if it’s something you’re interested in, you can try plugging the link into The Wayback Machine here:

    https://archive.org/web/

    Someone’s likely mentioned this before, but for newer readers it might be surprising that a lot of this is still available.

    One consequence of purposefully “going viral” is that information that generates a lot of interest tends to be archived.

    Ah, the snares of celebrity.

  15. I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t be a cop in Breck county knowing that I’d have a decent chance of interacting with Joe and Nicole. I just couldn’t handle that combination of stupidity and dishonesty without blowing my top. And that’s not even getting into how angry I’d be knowing the kids were dealing with the fallout of having such horrible parents…every day, on and on, with no hope of getting out or getting a decent education to help themselves get out.

    I don’t know what kind of temperament makes a person capable of being an effective police officer despite situations like this one, but I was not born with it.

  16. Even more proof, yet again, Those “parents” put “their rights” above the safety of those poor kids.
    Personally, I think the only reason all 11 are still alive is because they are raising each other. All this nonsense will bite them on the ass as these children get older. Do they really believe all those kids, once they turn 18, will want to stay there? If they do, then they really are blinded by their own stupidity. Some may stay, but I doubt all will…

  17. Again, off topic, but a classic Nicole:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20141013013013/http://blessedlittlehomestead.org/reality/

    From July of 2014:

    “When I met my husband I had this vision of going to college to do wildlife rehabilitation. I wanted to travel the world living in huts, helping animals and photographing my journey.

    Well, 20 years later here we are, living in a small cabin the woods with critters of all kinds, 10 wild children and I get to photograph it all. Sounds perfect right!

    For the most part it is.. But its not easy. We have ideas and the ambition to achieve them, but we also have roadblocks. Discouragement. Frustration. At times its hard to stay focused and hopeful.

    We live in this catch 22. We can live out here and build our homestead slowly.. very very slowly, or we can stray from our goals, put our kids in daycare/school and we can both do the 9-5 rat race we are trying to escape. In a few years time would could save up enough to get a good head start..

    But we don’t have a few years. Our oldest is closing in on 16. The others are right behind him and I regret not doing this sooner..I feel like I have robbed them in some way. For so long we talked about doing this but held back.. We kept saying “Once we get this, or once we can to that” Tomorrow. We kept living for tomorrow.

    Last fall we decided to go big or go home. Live today. So here we are.. We were unprepared for winter.. We knew what to expect but we lacked resources. Our first week of the winter cold we slept in our van, waking up to frost on the seats we had put outside, we had to hurriedly put in the van so they could drop me off at work. We finally attained a propane heater it wasn’t sufficient for our cabin, but it made do. And we burned through a lot of $$ with it. It wasn’t till mid November we were able to scrape up the $500 to finish the chimney for the wood stove. We stayed warm most days.. I had hoped to have the cabin insulated by winter,but funds were not available. They still aren’t. We lived off my very small income and a few donations from friends and our church. We have a long list of “needs” and only a few are being attended to. But we will get there.. I have to learn patience. I guess this is my lesson. Patience.

    My faith has been tested in all areas. I have been inactive at church for over a year, but I personally have abandoned my faith in general over these past 8 months or so. Maybe I will find my way back into a relationship with God, maybe not. I guess I need to work on faith as well..

    But the purpose of this.. The homestead, the blog, everything, its not about me.. I need to stay focused on that.. Its for my children.. Its for others who want to live free. For those that want a peaceful life. We want to help others, whether it be part time vacationers, or full time residents, I want the homestead to be open to others who seek the same things we do. We have had others show interest, but none who have been willing to commit..

    I hope to be able to share more. I feel I have been glossing it over. Its hard not to live in fear. Not just fear of failure, but fear of sharing it. Not just fear of how others will see me, but how others might act. It seems the more I try to find peace, the more others seek to do us harm.

    Over the next few months, I am going to work on my first goal. Setting up an information center.. This blog. So that I can follow our own progress( and failures) and share it with others. I am also working on setting up an online store to sell whatever we can muster up.. Whether it be home made projects, art, food or second hand items to sell, or services we can provide, we want to explore all avenues of sustainability. And we love to barter.

    I appreciate feed back. If there is anything on particular interest to you, let me know.. I can always use inspiration for a blog post!
    If you feel inspired to donate, you can pay pal us Blessedlittlehomestead@yahoo.com or message us about tangible items or gift cards.

    Thanks for reading,
    ~Nicole”

    Wow….you can pay them through Paypal, or message them to give them “tangible” things or gift cards!

    The history of this grift is so amazingly long and ridiculous.

    And there’s a new sucker born every single day.

    When I read crap like this….this is what I hear in my mind:

    “We are two able bodied people of average intellect and work capacity. We purposely had 11 children that we refuse to properly house or feed because our *ideals* are more important than their comfort, health and welfare. Let me tell you our sad tale of sleeping in an icy van so you’ll give us money. No, no, don’t bother offering us good jobs or suggesting the kids would be warm and fed at school while we’re working….that won’t do at all! What we need are handouts so we can continue to live in abject poverty and pimp our children’s misery. And yes, yes of course we DO realize that if everyone approached life with our entitled expectations of support from strangers, there would be no one left to pay the bill. Yes, we know that it wouldn’t work if everyone did what we do….but you have to understand, we’re special. We don’t play by the rules everyone else done. We don’t have to. You’re stupid enough to let us get away with this every single time.”

  18. Stupid is as stupid does
    Who takes a simple seatbelt stop and turns it into an incident?? Only the Naugs.
    I have been stopped before for a seatbelt check. My daughters winter scarf was covering the shoulder belt. I was happy to show the officer and he told us to stay safe and we were on our way.
    If Nicole had simply said our child is old enough to be out of a booster seat and I did not realize because he is small he still needed a booster seat.
    The officer most likely would have given them a booster seat or said go be one it is a required law.
    Sounds like there was contraband in their vehicle. Most likely the smell as well.
    I feel for those innocent children. They are forced to live on the edge with fear which is not fair to them. Not fair at all.

  19. I remember watching that video and thinking it must have been torture for that officer to keep a straight face. I don’t think I could do it. Thank you, Sally, for transcribing this. It really shows what a fairy Joe is. That poor dumb, goofy fool couldn’t lick his own tit without his wife reciting which amendment gives him the right to do so.

  20. Joe is a cowardly bully, IMO. Everyone knows now. He only attacks those he thinks are vulnerable, IMO. When confronted with strength he runs, we’ve seen that now too.

    When facing the man he folds and only afterward does he pose and posture trying to appear as something he is not, IMO.

    That’s just my opinion based on my observations.

  21. You can upload the copy you have to Soundcloud or even to Facebook. YouTube can’t take those down. That’s why the Soundcloud copies of the other audios are still there, even though Nicole removed the ones she uploaded to YouTube, and Facebook does jack about audio. I suggest uploading to both of those places, and letting people mirror them.

  22. When facing the man he folds and only afterward does he pose and posture trying to appear as something he is not, IMO.

    Yeah, that’s exactly what he does. Give him a beer and watch him. I have. It was sort of amazing. And then as soon as we were gone, it turned into “stalking” and Nicole called the police.

  23. After a car accident (my daughter wasn’t even in the car). The hospital gave me a voucher for a new car seat. They said because of the impact the seat was compromised. (The nurse heard me ask my dad to get the car seat when he tried to find my purse from the car at the junkyard. That was 15 years ago though.

  24. You can upload the copy you have to Soundcloud or even to Facebook.

    This is not a bad idea. Thank you for the suggestion.

  25. @ DeNauglified.

    Nothing says “priorities” like this does it?

    “Over the next few months, I am going to work on my first goal. Setting up an information center.. This blog. So that I can follow our own progress( and failures) and share it with others. I am also working on setting up an online store to sell whatever we can muster up.. Whether it be home made projects, art, food or second hand items to sell, or services we can provide, we want to explore all avenues of sustainability. And we love to barter.”

    A Blog. First goal. A blog. Not the myriad common sense things like adequate shelter . . .

    A blog. Her first goal. A fucking blog. So that she can follow her progress. Because having an actual home and educational program for the children would be difficult to follow? But a “blog”.

    Joe and Nicole, what are your actual priorities?

    Wanna know what you’re bartering? — Internet insults. Meanwhile, your kids are suffering. But hey, don’t “back down”. Keep lying and accusing others of things they haven’t done in a hollow attempt to soothe your own demons. Deflect, project and lie.

    I could tell you where this is all leading . . . but you’re smarter than anybody else so you won’t listen.

    Matter of time.

  26. Yes, Al. I was wondering, too. I’m the nice Alberta women you had a brief Facebook conversation with regarding flying. Hey! Hope you’re doing well!

  27. Now to my original comment. I’m hard pressed to expect much more than ongoing criminal behavior from the youngest kids in the future. You can’t watch and listen to this sort of Bullshit day in and day out without absorbing it on a deep level. I think the elder group still have memories of some semblance of normalcy but the young ones? This is all they know. Court. Fighting the cops. Everyone being an enemy. That’s what’s so terribly sad and wrong. I don’t hold out much hope that the kids will be any different.

  28. SHE posted this vid and others for LE and all the world to see, and yet she gripes that LE does nothing to answer her all too frequent complaints? That’s a bit strange.

    I also find it interesting that she posts this “stuff” and leaves it up for some time, but then removes it. Is it not resonating with her targeted audience?$$$. Driven?
    Also thank you Sally, for showing just how difficult it is to be in LE, especially after the loss of another officer and young mother today.
    RIP Orlando police Master Sgt. Debra Clayton.

  29. @Al Wilson: Similarly, before setting up an online store, it’s wise to have a specific product ready to go, instead of “whatever.”

    Setting up a means to sell extra produce before producing any food whatsoever is classic Naugler.

  30. When one of my grandkids was three, I put him in the car seat that I had in my car and took him to walmart. The carseat he was in belonged to one of the younger grandkids so he was not sitting correctly although he was buckled in. A nice young policeman pulled me over and said the car seat was not for a child of my grandson’s size and if I had to suddenly stop or had an accident, he could be hurt. He actually pulled a car seat out of his trunk and gave it to me…right there on the interstate. I begged him to follow me to walmart so I could buy a larger car seat and he could take that one back but he says they keep a few in the trunk to pass out. I still bought another one and took that seat back to the state trooper’s office not far from the walmart. I cannot imagine becoming argumentative or disrespectful to the nice young man who was just doing his job. Plus, I imagine if all a cop sees is one child damaged as a result of not having the proper restraints, it would inspire them to push for preventative measures so no other person would have to suffer through that. N and J are idiots…they have no idea of how ignorant they act or sound. I feel so sorry for their children.

  31. @ Al

    She’s a piece of work, isn’t she?

    They both are.

    And you’re dead right, there’s no telling them about the possible consequences of their choices because they know everything. I mean, damn, they have a BLOG to study all their failures and successes! Not just an ordinary blog…but an INFORMATION CENTER blog! With priorities like that, how could they possibly make a wrong turn?

    I was reading Nicole’s latest homestead entry today about once again having to go underground due to factors unknown (drama queen)….and a bunch of updates on the littlest kids.

    One thing I can’t help but notice, are the lack of updates about the older kids. It’s as though once you turn 12 in the Naugler house, you cease to exist outside of providing labor and babysitting.

    Man, I’d love to hear…..X just enrolled for driver’s ed. X is interested in pursuing a career in _____ and has started taking pre-requisite classes for that major at community college. X just started a business/got a job/toured a trade school. X is taking a live-away summer job to stretch his/her wings. X just took the PSAT and surprised us with a lot of talent in _____. X needs to work on _____ & ______ to get his/her ACT up for acceptance to the _____ program he/she has fallen in love with. X is hoping to take a service dog training apprenticeship. X is working to raise money for culinary school. X is working part time for a local artisan learning cabinet making. X is doing volunteer working, hoping to establish some references. Etc….etc…etc….

    ANY of this kinda stuff would be such good news. It seems like the older kids are an afterthought in the Naugler machine. There seems to be so little support for helping them discover their best future:( It’s one of the things that makes me saddest about the situation.

    As a former home schooler myself, I know the propaganda that’s out there. We’re told over and over by home school advocates….a much higher percentage of home schooled kids go on to college and attain gainful employment than the rest of the population! But then you read the fine print *among home schoolers who self selected to participate in our survey*

    Truth is, we don’t know much of anything about how home school turns out. Of the 500 questionnaires that are sent out to people known to have been home schooled in a particular area for a research study….the only data that can be considered….are the 200 reports from people who choose to respond. And that doesn’t even address the issue of the 300 other home school students no one knew about to send a questionnaire, because they never had to legally register. (in several states you don’t even have to let anyone know you’re homeschooling, you can just do it)

    So, of the 800 home schooled people in a particular area, we’re looking at data from 200 of them….25% About 75% of these self-selected home schoolers say they’ve gone on to college. 75% of 25% is around 18.75% of the total number. We can’t really say anything about the other 600….because their data is not included in the survey.

    So you get this article boasting….75% of homeschoolers go to college! But from the data, we can really only say there is evidence that about 19% do (and again, it’s self reported, I don’t know of any studies where transcripts were required to prove the claims). The number might be much higher, or even lower……but since we don’t have the data, we really can’t say.

    We CAN say with certainty….that among ALL the kids who graduated high school in the US in the spring….about 65% were registered for college in the fall. We know this because the Bureau of Labor Statistics keeps track.

    But you see how misleading that is?

    75% is better than 65% so home school is clearly superior!

    Ugh.

    Not meaning to run down home school here. As I said, my kids home schooled and it was a great decision for us. (They also all attended either four years of public high school, or community college at 16…so they had a bridge to formal academia before going on to four year college).

    Home school is infested with extreme religious people. In fact, it’s safe to say that MOST people who home school in the US are in it for Jesus. Back in the day….you couldn’t find a home school group that didn’t require “a statement of faith” or other weird assed bullshit. These days you can find secular home school groups. They’re rare, but they’re not unheard of now.

    If you poll the average home school group, about half of people are home schooling because their kids have special needs. Developmental disability, autism, personality disorders, medically fragile kids.

    Other stereotypes you’ll find in home school groups include:

    Savant-like musicians/actors/athletes….kids whose careers as students come second to some other skill they’re freakishly talented at. Kids who travel and perform and have insane practice schedules.

    The rare ulta-gifted kids. Among the home-schooled… 7 out of 10 parents will insist their children are supremely gifted. In reality about .5% are. I’m not talking your average smarty-pants variety kid who would be the Salutatorian of his class with a 3.999gpa, who gets all A’s at community college and has his pick of solid universities. I’m talking a kid so freakishly smart he/she gets invited to apply to ivy leagues at age 12. Kids who make you uncomfortable because their intellect makes you feel like you’re being studied by a space alien. LOL. They’re out there! (My daughter was actually friends with one of these children, and her visits were some of the most interesting and alarming experiences we’ve ever had with other people’s kids. Extremely unnerving, but very sweet girl. In spite of their gifts, those kids don’t have it easy. It’s very isolating to be that different. I think it can be quite lonely to be so different from your peers.)

    Cram-Control parents who take playing school WAY too damned far…converting rooms of their house into something that resembles a tiny university. These folks run to being obsessively authoritarian and micromanage every minute of their over-scheduled kid’s lives, insisting that someone in third grade MUST study Latin and Mandarin, and read Machiavelli. (trademark of these parents: How to you get your kid to stop bursting into tears every time you tell him to take his seat? Why does he dooooooooooo that? I do EVERYTHING for him!)

    My-Children-Will-Be-Engineers Oblivious Ex-Engineer Dad. This guy (and yes, I’m being kinda sexist here, I’m sure there’s a Mom or two like this out there, too)….this guy is over-involved science fair Dad on steroids. His idea of school is building things, combustion engines, hydraulics, electricity. The kid’s day with this guy is spent making homemade air conditioners, rewiring the house, building cars from the frame out, doing physics experiments he found on YouTube. This guys says, “It doesn’t matter that Jonny can’t write or spell, for God’s sake, he’s building a particle accelerator in the basement! NASA is headhunting him as we speak!” (just to be bitchy, I’m gonna mention that this guy is usually homeschooling because his communication issues repeatedly got him in trouble at work until he got canned…but shhhhh…no one knows that)

    Hippy/Traveler/Gypsy home school. These folks travel around in an RV going to Rainbow gatherings, Music Festivals and Burning Man. Lots of poverty and dangerous choices. It’s cool for a 14 year old to take the bus 2000 miles by himself. Why not? School of Life…It will be an adventure! Some work the Renaissance Faire circuit like Medieval Carnies. Some like to camp. Some dabble in nudism. Some are running from minor crimes. Two things you can count on…..djembe drums and pot. And enough patchouli oil to make you gag.

    Green Parents. These folks are the kind of three grain granola folk who are so environmentally conscious they can’t eat anything that casts a shadow. These folks are hardcore vegan, make their clothing from hemp, capture their water with fog nets, cook on solar stoves and live in sod houses in the ground like Hobbits who joined the peace corp in Africa and never forgot. These folks have organic gardening down to a science. Takes them three times longer to do anything, but they’re willing to work three times as long for their principles. For their kids…. green science isn’t just their curriculum, it’s the core of their belief system, their family culture deeply rooted in photosynthesis and political activism. These are people who actually garden underground in the winter with fish tank fertilizer systems, who make their OWN geothermal heat pumps, and who develop ulcers worrying about GMOs destroying the planet. If they bring salsa to a picnic, eat it by the bowl full….and you will never die.

    Konstitooshunists. Three things matter to these forsaken souls whose governmental paranoia is outpaced only by their hatred of law enforcement. Those three things are Jesus, Guns and the Konstitooshun. And NO ONE is gonna tell them what to teach their kids. Common Core be damned and its creators hung for treason. These perpetual victims set an example of flexing and posturing against authority….all the while being authoritarian and controlling of their own kids. Antisocial assholes who live in the woods in militaristic compounds and stock pile bullets, bug out bags, and cans of Glenn Beck’s heirloom survival seeds. Mostly, these little bitches eat a lot of hot dogs and cry when they run out of vanilla creamer. They breed their kids together like rabbits and think pink camouflage anything is a the most clever gift you can git yer wimmin.

    Holy shit.

    I just looked at the clock and realized how very far I’ve strayed from the point. LOL.

    Sally, please delete this nonsensical clutter at will, or edit it or whatever. (gonna hit post anyway cause I think parts of it might make you smile)

  32. This transcript is evidence that Joe isn’t the one whomping on Nicole, as people have expressed concern about in the past. He clearly defers to her.

    They should also learn that not signing a ticket doesn’t mean it’s not valid. So sign it or not, no difference is made. Sign it, though, and be nice and cooperate, and an officer might choose to skip court that day, or might even decide not to write a ticket at all (according to a police officer I know who posts on major drinking holidays the benefits of not being a fuckwad when pulled over). Be an asshole, and an officer suddenly has a persona reason to make sure you sink.

    It seems like Nicole was trying to gaslight the officer. When he brought up height and she tried twisting it to age, that came off as her trying to trick him. She’s lucky she didn’t get a ticket for all the kids in the van. And speaking of the van, how did a belt get torn? Since Nicki likes to drive and post video at the same time (though has she done that in a while?) she needs to make damn sure her kids are belted safe.

  33. Joe and Nicole are so special the laws of physics don’t apply. I only hope that if there is a nasty wreck, none of their children are in the vehicle with them. Joe and Nicole are the only ones who will consistently be safely restrained by their seat belts.

    Maybe the working seat belts are earned by pleasing Joe and Nicole. “What have you done for me lately?” is quite possibly the unspoken part of the equation when determining which kids will be in particular seats for excursions.

    Yeah, police, fire and EMT personnel just LOVE scraping bits and pieces off of the roads. That’s why there are so many signs outside of fire stations with messages about not texting and driving, wearing your seat belt and of course, to check the batteries in your smoke/CO detectors.

  34. @ Susan Slate.

    Yes. It was a civil and friendly discussion. I listened to him and his concerns and he did the same.

    He was a decent guy.

    I have no idea if our breakfast resulted in Nicole’s snarky, dismissive post regarding the 3% movement.

  35. Why hasn’t Nicole made excuses for this post yet?

    Are Nicole and Joe too busy laughing on her Nicole C Naugler public page about Joe having another criminal court “appointment”?

    Somebody send that man a Hardee’s gift card so that he doesn’t feel the need to harass women and children in order to get the wife to spot him a burger.

  36. I think parts of it might make you smile)

    It didn’t make me smile. It made me laugh. 🙂

  37. DeNauglified — made me laugh too. I had to re-read it to see which stereotype fit me. I think I’m simply “parent of a special needs child”. Around here the good public schools require entrance exams and my dyslexic kid can’t get in.

  38. I homeschool because when I was a kid I was bullied into PTSD and suicidal ideation for things I couldn’t help and not actually helped for the things I couldn’t help, and I see no sign that the school district in which I still live has improved in that regard; and as an adult, I see that No Child Left Behind and its shambling successor Common Core were most of what was/is wrong with the academic side of my education. I don’t think there’s a one-word descriptor for that. “Frustrated,” maybe.

  39. @DeNauglified: I’m almost sorry you looked at the clock! That just got more hilariously awesome the further I read. Well done! 🙂

  40. “Joseph E. Naugler

    Whether through government, social media and/or physically we teach our children, and set an example, to know how to defend oneself. With the faith, character and intelligence to be bold and wise in doing so.”

    OH MY GOD. Joe, are you 12?

    Here’s a thought….maybe if you spent a FRACTION of the time giving those kids the most BASIC education that you spend on obsessively bitching about everything on the internet….they’d have half a chance to grow to attain wisdom and intelligence.

    As of now, Joe? They’re fucked. The only thing you’ve prepared them to be, are criminals and victims. You’ve taught them to embrace victim hood instead of giving them the tools to create their own fates. You’ve taught them to beg instead of work. You’ve taught them to take reckless chances, endanger their health, and be so utterly at odds with modern society and current thought… that they don’t have a chance in hell of succeeding in marriages with normal people or even getting along with society in general. THAT is the example you’ve provided.

    Here’s the future you’ve given your kids:

    *Jail time, because this is what happens when you teach children that the rules don’t apply to them and they can make their own rules. Jail time….because that’s what happens to people who have been taught to defy law enforcement and act like entitled idiots with strangers and *physically* fight.

    *Unemployment, because decent jobs require an education, and hard unskilled jobs that don’t require education, generally DO require drug tests. Since you and Nicole advertise the benefits of marijuana use and you both advocate and defend it to high heaven…I’m guessing the kids have picked up on your attitudes about it’s use.

    *Bad marriages, because your kids will never find people with your values, and if they do, they’re likely to be criminals or beggars. Decent partners will grow tired of victim hood and entitlement. Decent partners will grow tired of endless slights real and imagined… and will want connection to others instead of constant conflict. Decent partners expect equal hard work and contribution….something you’ve failed to model for your kids. Decent partners expect empathy and reason and the capacity to get along with others even when you disagree.

    *Anger and Shame…because you’ve never given them anything to feel proud of. Because YOU wallow in anger and shame. Because you don’t allow them to embrace what’s beautiful and good in the world without cynicism and defeatism. You don’t give them a chance to succeed because their success would threaten you. You don’t allow them to believe in a good world, or a solid path that rewards people who are willing to work at it.

    *Potential for a life-threatening medical misstep. When your daughter has her baby at home in garden shed, and her placenta tears and she bleeds to death in minutes…you’ll get why modern medicine exists, but it will be too late. When one of the babies chokes to death due to a preventable case of whooping cough…you’ll get why vaccination matters. When Nicole’s rotten teeth give her a heart valve infection that damages her heart horribly, and you’re left holding the bag with all those kids….you’ll understand why living like pioneers in 2017 is asinine and why those people DIED in their 40’s.

    Dude…you have a TON to learn about intelligence, character and wisdom. You have no business suggesting you’re instilling these values by teaching kids to constantly be at war with everyone….you’re NOT.

    All you’re doing, Joe, is teaching the kids to be as maladjusted and miserable as you. Teaching them to fight imaginary wars they can’t win is like teaching them to dance with poisonous snakes in each hand.

    You’re like a self fulfilling prophecy begging to happen, Joe. You WANT to have problems with the law. You WANT to be at odds with the government. You WANT to drag your kids down that ugly road. You WANT wars with your neighbors.

    Grow the fuck up.

    Put the kid’s welfare first for once in your miserable life and let them have some peace.

  41. Kaylee wrote, “This transcript is evidence that Joe isn’t the one whomping on Nicole, as people have expressed concern about in the past. He clearly defers to her.”

    No, I’m sorry, but that is not true. There are people who do whomp others when they feel justified or when they think they can get away with it. When drunk, for example.

  42. DeNauglified, I laughed quite a bit too. We probably fall into the special needs category. We have trouble fitting into co-ops and whatnot because we actually don’t fit one of the stereotypes. I have a special needs kids who didn’t fit the mold and I have one that had some emotional issues in school that led to us originally exploring homeschool. For us it works. We’ve done public school, in fact we still do partially, our state allows that. But in the end the homeschool world is an interesting place. We’ve met all the stereotypes and have made some amazing friends because of the world. But we still are very entrenched in the public school world and all our friends there. We are also very in the unschooling community and even within that community there are all types. The homeschool community certainly is diverse. I do live in a large city though and I imagine that is a huge part of why our community is so diverse. I’m grateful for our homeschool adventure and it’s been eyeopening to experience all the characters.

  43. On Nicole’s priorities I will say that I think she has Maslow’s hierarchy of needs inverted. Maybe she was only concerned about hers hierarchy of needs and her self-actualization while her children had to figure out the bottom of that diagram for themselves for food and shelter.

    So she’s self-actualized with a blog making a nuisance of herself and being a bully with Jabba as backup. Her kids are figuring out basic survival in schooling themselves to eat and have shelter. But CPS made Nicole get a better shelter than the thrown together lean-to she made her kids weather a bad winter in.

  44. And now Nicole is going on about “people attacking her business” on Joe’s page.

    Good grief. In all of my extensive reading of commentary about the Naugs, I have NEVER heard any criticisms of her grooming or her pet salon. In fact, I’ve read a lot of complimentary things…that the pictures look like she does a very decent job, that her prices are excellent, and that the salon itself is lovely. (we wish the children could live there, it’s so nice!)

    In fact, the pet salon is widely lauded by most of us critics as one of the few things Nicole seems to do very well. The photos of the pets are adorable. All their little hairdos look very smart. Even the goofy bows are cute, and I’m sure the pet-parents love them. Love the self-bathing station, too. A very cool idea. From the pics, it looks like you were swamped with business over the holidays. Congrats on that, by the way.

    The only person I’ve ever seen posting questionable or concerning material about the salon, Nicole….is you.

    Tell us again why you felt the need to videotape a neighboring business and post it to your page? Tell us why you felt the need to post a bunch of crap about the police being involved with your fights with your neighbors? Both the child left in the car, and your recent altercation with the woman at the other end of the plaza…what was the point of posting that stuff? Do you really think that’s good for your business?

    Why not post stuff about…I dunno…DOG GROOMING or something? Some cool video of one of those pretty dogs being finished up, or dogs doing tricks, or some dynamic cheerful little advertisement for what appears to be a very cute little pet salon?

    Don’t know about you, but I personally am not enthusiastic to go to a location where people are calling the police on each other and posting all the drama to the internet.

    Call me crazy, but I like to avoid that kinda middle school shit in my adult life.

    If you’re looking for a person who might be sabotaging your business reputation, Nicole….you really might want to check the mirror.

    Just sayin.

    #OwnWorstEnemy

  45. Old Miss, I agree. The younger kids’ formative years have been spent fearing the cops. Whatever you tell kids those younger years is hard to undo. This is why it’s easier to raise someone with whackadoo beliefs than to get people to covert later. It’s nice to think that those younger kids will escape this, but the reality is that they won’t. I have more faith that kids in gang-infested ghettos will get out, but even with access to schools, identification, and other resources, very few do since that life is normal to them, and leaving means leaving everyone and everything they know. The Naugler kids are literally in a worse position to leave than a minority child born to a single mom with a gang-banger dead-beat dad in a bad ghetto. How, HOW did Joe and Nicole manage a situation where the kids we think of as worst off in this world still have it better than their kids? They’ve literally stripped their younger kids of all their rights, and crippled their chances in every way.

    DeNauglified, there are no posts about those kids doing those things because they need birth certificates to get IDs to take driving classes, or to enroll in community college classes, literally everything you listed. Even volunteering usually requires having an ID now since it’s normal to be background-checked, even to work in food kitchens. Even to do stuff with your kid’s Girl Scout troop requires being background checked (I just had to pay to do that again since clearance lasts two years, and I can’t do Girl Scout stuff one-on-one with my own kid otherwise, and since cookie season is upon us, I paid the $15 so I can to a little booth with her.) Other than Jacob, those kids can’t get live-away summer jobs, or any summer jobs, since ID is needed. Those kids have been trapped, and I’m not sure how that’s been legal.

    We homeschool, using unschool methods (which don’t mean doing jack shit like the Naugs!), and yeah, secular homeschool groups are hard to find. We have a few here, but the religious crowd keeps taking it upon themselves to infiltrate the secular groups, but if we were to have a statement of “agreement to keep religion out of it,” then we’d be called intolerant. One of the groups was infiltrated last night by a flat-earther.

    I feel bad for savants. They have a hard time connecting with their peers. The choice is boredom in school with kids their own age, or going to advanced classes with kids more mature. Being a super-genius at something has no affect on maturity. The show Doogie Howser actually covered this. He was a doctor at 16 because he had the intellect, but maturity-wise, he was still a kid. I don’t understand people who push to have their kids seen as savants. I was a TAG student sent to higher-level classrooms for everything, and that sucked enough. “My” classroom, which didn’t feel like mine since I went there for roll and nothing else, was all kids who were strangers to me, but I couldn’t related to the teenagers who were dating and I was just 10. I wouldn’t want to be a kid who is Ivies-ready at 12. Average is underrated.

    My husband sounds similar to the Aspergers engineer dad, but not quite. He and our kids did require part of the house! And they do experiments they find on Youtube! But he’s not an idiot. Our kid loves science and technology right now, and part of unschooling is using what a kid is interested in to help them learn. It would be foolish to not take advantage of her wanting to learn this stuff. We are working on Ohm’s law tonight, and will install one in our kitchen. AKA a dimmer switch, which demonstrates the law. 🙂

    I know some parents like those green parents, and right now they’re growing hydroponic lettuce. I’m not sure their kids can even read yet, and I’m scared to ask. They’re the “alternative intelligence” sort who don’t understand that you need non-alternative intelligence to get by in this world.

    My grandparents are those Konstitooshunists who make Trump look moderate, and they’re homeschooling my cousin’s kid because it’s okay to have kids, but raising them is other people’s work! I promised that kid that she can move in with me when she turns 18 in a couple years. She misses high school and hates that school now is Fox News.

    Your post made me laugh. As someone in deep in homeschooling in an area where it’s estimated at least 5% of kids are homeschooled (the program we’re in has weekly evals to help parents make sure our kids are progressing, even if it’s not in every class every week, but still making adequate progress over time, and there’s a waiting list since the program has a cap of 800 kids out of a district-total of 23k students, making almost 3.5% of the students here in this one homeschool program alone), in a middle-upper-middle-class neighborhood where literally 60% of the kids are homeschooled, I’ve encountered all the groups you’ve mention. Thank goodness non-schooling doesn’t cut it here. One friend of mine let her kid quit all school so she could work on her anime “art” all day, because there really are a lot of jobs for pre-teens to trace and color stuff, and we’re all just blinded by “the man” for not seeing the truth. It took about two months before the district found out, stepped in, and now her kid is in public school by court order since the parents made it crystal clear that they wouldn’t participate in “abuse” by mandating their kid learn anything.

    I’m not really sure where we fit in. We homeschool partly because our kid is on the spectrum and we can adjust what we do to fit her needs at any given time. We don’t use a pre-written curriculum. We will literally rewire the house to help her learn. We are environmentally conscious. We will travel some to get to educational destinations. We do teach the constitution, but the real one, and how it needs to apply to all to protect all of our rights, and how one person’s rights doesn’t mean that person can trample the rights of another, and part of lessons last year was talking about political views, and our daughter helping us campaign for Bernie Sanders (but only after she decided she supported him too, and we went as far as taking her to the local Republican headquarters so she could learn about Trump from Trump-lovers and to one of the Dem locations so she could learn about Hillary from Hillary-lovers, because we knew we couldn’t teach her impartially on our own). We go have a lot of activities scheduled, but not overly many. I guess we’re a “whatever” family?

    I wish Nicole would do a “day in the life of” about one of the older kids, and show us what the kid does for education.

  46. @ Denauglified- HA HA Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Thank you for the smiles and laughs.

    I was smiling early on in your comment, but when you get to “Konstitooshunists. Three things matter to these forsaken souls………………..breed their kids together like rabbits and think pink camouflage anything is a the most clever gift you can git yer wimmin,”—— I ’bout died!

    You win the internet today. 🙂

    (And thank you Sally for not editing or deleting any of it!)

  47. Re: Homeschooling types – At least the Konstitooshunist’s kids will grow to understand the importance of French Vanilla Creamer in any good protest. Also Throw Rugs, any and all size for doorways.

  48. [Admin: Come on, guys. Let’s stop with the discussion about the kids and your perception of how they look in photos and their supposed futures. Keep it on the parents, please. ]

  49. Tekla, I’m convinced that Nicole wears the pants. Joe defers to her in this video like a child to a parent. I think we’ve all been conditioned to an extent to always see a woman in a bad relationship as being the one who is abused. I don’t think they’re abusing each other, but I do think she is the dominant one, and that he doesn’t make a move without her approval. Him not knowing what on earth he should do is evidence that he’s the underling.

    Denauglified, you can promote the benefits of pot-use and defend people using it without being a worthless drain on society. Almost everyone I know well advocate for legalization and promote the stuff, and even use it, and most of my friends are in the top third income-wise for the US. A lot of people use pot, even illegally, and hold high-level jobs doing important things, and a lot of people don’t even think it should be legal, yet live in poverty. Pot’s not the problem. People who decide to fuck all are the problem.

    Those kids are fucked with unemployment because they’ve been denied even the most basic of educations, have never been taught how to work with others off the shitstead, how to take directions from others, and they have been denied identification, which alone fucks them. [ADMIN: This is borderline. You don’t know that they are “fucked with unemployment.” Jacob is, in fact, employed. The next phrase (denied education) is absolutely true, as is the final phrase. An argument can be made that all homeschooled children are not taught how to “work with others” or how to “take directions from others,” so that’s a pretty broad brush you’re painting with. I know that I have allowed this kind of shit, but it’s rubbing me wrong today. ]

  50. Forced into a classroom with people who happened to be the same age, but not the same intellectual level as me, didn’t teach any of us how to work well with others. It taught them how to physically and psychologically abuse a child with disabilities who was very different from themselves and get away with it. It left me with some pretty major issues I’m still dealing with. It’s not like homeschooling has all the problems and there are no problems with mainstream schooling, but it sure seems that some folks in this thread think that way.

    I actually agree with some of what Nicole posts about homeschooling. But it infuriates me that people like me get painted with the broad brush of being off my rocker and committing educational neglect for homeschooling my kid when I’m trying to save them from the hell that is being a gifted kid forced into a regular classroom. And yes, my kid has been assessed; I’m not making it up that they’re gifted. (I’m deliberately using gender-neutral pronouns to further protect my kid, bad grammar notwithstanding. I think kids should have a right to privacy.)

    Nicole doesn’t know what bullying is. This is someone who chooses to live in a shack with no farm while misrepresenting it as homesteading, spreading human and animal feces all over, feeding her kids rancid food, supporting a husband who won’t work to support his family even though they desperately need it, lying to people left and right, harassing everyone who says boo to them, all while inviting commentary. People give legit commentary and she calls that bullying. Children threatening to kill another child because she’s different…that’s the bullying I experienced in school. That’s not legit commentary, that’s something that should have been addressed with more than teachers telling me I couldn’t take a joke and had to learn to ignore them. Grow up, Nicole. You don’t know what you’re taking about.

  51. Obviously I have no issue with homeschooling, we homeschool. What worries me is the social isolation. I have a friend that was raised in a similar situation. Her father even thought he was a prophet, they had limited interaction with the outside world. She is an amazing person despite her upbringing. I won’t write the kids off, people overcome their fucked up upbringing everyday. Yes it’s hard and I am hopeful that the courts and CPS at least required identification to be obtained for the kids. They were in state care so they do have some records. If they want to rise above this they will have opportunities.

  52. CPS wouldn’t have given those kids back without getting them birth certificates, social security numbers etc…

  53. Agreed that homeschooling in general is not the problem with the Nauglers. Rather, it’s what appears to be a complete lack of any educational effort on the part of either parent. I have read earlier blogs by Nicole, when they still were living in various rental homes, where she talked about “the school room”, what each child was studying, etc. I hope she was being at least somewhat truthful in that for the older children, she attempted to home school them and they interacted with other home-schooled kids. But I think by the time they had spiraled down into moving onto this property, she’d run out of gas for that effort. (That’s not surprising, as she had to work to earn some money to support them since Joe has refused to do so from day one.) Leaving it up to Joe, he decided to “unschool” them.
    I wish parents were required to obtain SS numbers and birth certificates for every child they have, which is even more important when a child is born at home. I read the saga of a young woman (Pennington daughter I think) who basically had to run away from home as an adult. Her grandparents helped her, but she had no birth certificate and no Social Security number, and no way to prove the details of her birth. It was quite a battle to get her parents to provide the necessary documentation, and I believe her situation did prompt some change in the laws, but perhaps only in her state, to help other undocumented children be better able to prove they were natural born citizens of the U.S.
    If only a few of the Naugler children have birth certificates, then the rest of them face this same uphill battle if and when they want to apply for a job, join the military, or otherwise participate in normal society.

    And I really am not trying to get into a discussion on the pros/cons of marijuana use, but I will say that I have used marijuana for medical reasons for the past 3 years. It helped tremendously with a chronic pain condition that I’d been treating with prescribed pain meds for 4 years prior. It helps me get a restful night’s sleep. I never use it if I am going to be driving. I work at a demanding job and have no problem. Marijuana, if used responsibly by an adult, is not a problem. The problem arises if the person using it is a deadbeat father of 11, who won’t lift a finger to help raise and support his own children. However, if it helps keep him mellow and not yelling at his own kids, perhaps that’s the least of my concerns.

  54. Been trying to reply for days, but my kids seem to sense when I try and suddenly need something. Let’s see if I can get through this…

    I homeschool because the public school failed my oldest special needs son for 6 years. I finally said “no more.” I decided to pull my middle son and never send my youngest son to public school because if they weren’t going to put in the effort when it’s difficult, they don’t get to enjoy when it’s easy.
    My oldest son is doing amazing now. He was held back twice, but is making up ground. If I can get him up to 6th grade level in time, he might enroll for the free online school for a few courses. For high school, he might return to physical public school for their vocational program.
    My middle son did okay with homeschooling. With time, I’m sure we would have tuned in on the best way for him to learn, but he just wasn’t happy. He does better in a more traditional setting, so he started private school this week.
    My youngest has never been to school or daycare and isn’t required to start school until next year. The problem is he just turned 4 and is already working on an early 2nd grade level. He may start private school in the fall since they said they could accommodate him and I want him to know what school is like, but I’m not sure any school can properly address his academic/maturity dichotomy.

    I want to post more, but I have to go pick up my middle son from school. I do miss the flexability of homeschooling him, but his needs trump mine.

  55. Interesting info about marijuana:

    There’s growing evidence that pot is not safe for people under 24 because it alters brain development, lowers IQ, and is associated with increased incidence of schizophrenia and other mental illnesses developing in susceptible individuals. (Thank God I dodged this bullet….or sort of dodged it..lol…I suppose that’s subjective and my husband might disagree. That said, I probably only did pot about a handful of times in my youth.)

    My daughter is in a pre-med program at a premiere research university. In her Topics in Cellular & Molecular Neurobiology class….the instructor actually advised students it would be much safer for their brains if they did Ecstasy (MDMA) before the age of 24…instead of pot. He also advised them to drink lots of Gatorade, bring toilet paper, and have unimpaired supervision if they did. He said this to the class in front of God and everyone. It was pretty shocking.

    This dude is a very respected cutting edge neuroscience researcher. Made a lot of the kids sit up and go…whoa!

    One kid asked, “Professor, are you being serious? Or is this a ‘just say no’ PSA kinda thing?”

    He responded, “You want to be a doctor? Don’t do cannabis before you’re 24. You need unimpaired brain development for medical school. You can do cannabis after your brain is done developing. If you want to do a substance recreationally, MDMA is a better choice before age 24.”

    The fact that this guy was suggesting MDMA was safer for them….when these kids know it’s a schedule one psychoactive drug that can cause dangerous cardiovascular symptoms….was extremely sobering.

    I heard this story when I asked my daughter last year about boys, parties, and what she’d been up to. Apparently, she so respects this man’s work…his warning was enough for her. She says she’s read a lot of research on the topic and has officially opted out of trying pot until age 24. I was skeptical, but after reading emerging research she sent me….I think the Prof. is giving good advice.

    I’m not going to villianize pot….because I think for people over the age of 24, its side effects are far less worrisome than alcohol. There’s evidence it might be useful for managing certain illnesses. It’s certainly a wonderful appetite stimulant. And it makes you feel pretty good.

    I drink Pepsi. I like it and it makes me feel good. Sugar, caffeine, just the right note of fizzy sweet to offset my avocado chicken salad and make me feel a little naughty. It’s pointless sugar. It’s probably not good for my health, but I could argue that it’s very “nutritious” because it has plenty of calories. LOL. My husband feels the same way about a really dark stout. It’s a vice that I like and waste money on……just like pot.

    The problem with pot is that… IT’S ILLEGAL in most states…including Kentucky.

    As a parent I very clearly tell my kids NOT to do pot. (even before reading the new research) Not because of any fictitious “Reefer Madness” bullshit….but because using pot can fuck your life up.

    *Smoking pot is a great way to do something stupid and impulsive that you might not otherwise choose to do. It impairs your better judgement, and this can endanger you….and you’re fucked.

    *Getting caught with pot is a great way to lose your scholarship and get kicked out of college…and your future is fucked.

    *If a police officer smells pot during a routine traffic stop, you can get arrested and lose your license…..and your freedom is fucked.

    *It’s illegal, and having a record of drug charges, even petty ones… will prevent most employers from hiring you…..and your finances are fucked.

    *Similarly, failing a drug test while you’re doing a physical unskilled job is not only potentially dangerous…it will get you fired…and you’re fucked.

    *Smoking pot really does feel good, so good that it can be a terrific excuse to sit on your life and do nothing of use with it and spend all your time smoking pot…..and before long, your life and relationships….are fucked.

    And of course…..
    *Your money is better spent on paying your debt and buying your school books….than pot:)

    I don’t think a little pot use, once in a blue moon, is the end of the world. But I’m glad my kids don’t do it. Lot of risk for very little benefit. I think by taking the position I did as a parent, I helped my kids make good decisions. No bullshit scare tactics….just real practical advice about how to NOT be fucked in life.

    My opinion about whether pot laws are right or not…could never have priority to my kid’s welfare.

  56. Jacob’s the kid with identification. The rest have been denied birth certificates. Sally, find me some examples of legal and reasonable-to-find regular jobs (not the odd jobs) that people can work to support themselves, since that’s what the kids without birth certificates will be able to do. Babysitting on occasion won’t support a person. Mowing the occasional yard won’t support a person. Flipping burgers isn’t the ideal long-term job, but in some places, it can support a person, BUT you have to have an ID. Not having ID fucks you. Jacob’s the lucky kid who was around before everything went to shit, had some normal-ish years, AND who lucked out by getting a birth certificate. In the above-ground adult world, legal, not-expired identification is mandatory to getting a real job, and so is having a social security card. Using Jacob to make the argument that the other kids might not be fucked is comparing apples to hamburger. He has vital documents denied to the others.

    Those kids are taught to fear authority, told that the police exist to shoot them, etc. How can kids taught to fear everyone be taught to work with them and take directions? We know for fact that the example their parents set is to immediately get confrontational with everyone from neighbors to police to random people passing by, and we know that to be fact because Nicole and Joe themselves post the proof online. The younger kids especially have NEVER had the chance to learn anything else. They’re kept together as a unit headed by people who proudly post videos of the behavior they exhibit for their children and showing how they explicitly tell their kids that authority figures want to kidnap them, arrest them, and shoot them. How can those kids be taught to work with others or take directions from authority when they’re being straight-out taught the opposite and that they need to push away for safety? Those youngers have literally taught this from birth. At least a couple of them were born in shacks on that property, so born into this in the most literal way possible.

    So I’m standing by those kids being fucked. It’s not fair to them, but that doesn’t change how their parents have royally fucked them over.

  57. Do you think the address that Joe gave the officer of 6062 High Plains Rd. Vine Grove, Kentucky is legit? Out of curiosity I googled the address. It comes up with a 2400 sq. ft farmhouse with four bedrooms on 24 acres. It was built in 1999. Zillow has it listed for almost $189,000, but it doesn’t say when the listing was created. I don’t know. It seems a little bit out of their league.
    Weren’t they on the property in 2013? It makes me wonder if they didn’t want to draw any attention, or didn’t want to be found living in their van with 9 kids. I’m sure taking the seats in and out of the van so they could sleep in it was how the seat belt was torn and Joe was just too lazy to fix it, OR maybe he wanted to make sure all the seat belts were the original “manufactured-factured” warranteed ones. He/they sure didn’t give a rat’s ass as to their kid’s safety. I suppose if you told them that during an accident one of those kids might be come a projectile and hurt them THEN they might care.

  58. It’s not like homeschooling has all the problems and there are no problems with mainstream schooling, but it sure seems that some folks in this thread think that way.

    I don’t think that. However, with public schooling, there are people watching and there are actual guidelines that are supposed to be followed. There is a school board.

    With homeschooling, there is only a person who calls herself “Essie” on a blog who claims stuff. I am not saying that what you’re claiming isn’t true. It might well be factual. However, I have no way to determine that.

    That’s not legit commentary, that’s something that should have been addressed with more than teachers telling me I couldn’t take a joke and had to learn to ignore them.

    That’s exactly what teachers in a private Christian school told my son. That’s why we removed him from that school and homeschooled him. So I get it, really, I do.

    But that does not change the fact that homeschooling lacks oversight and is absolutely a breeding ground for abuse.

  59. CPS wouldn’t have given those kids back without getting them birth certificates, social security numbers etc…

    Dunno about that. This is Kentucky, after all. You don’t have to actually do anything to “homeschool.”

  60. The rest have been denied birth certificates.

    We do not know how many of the children don’t have birth certificates. We just don’t know and Nicole isn’t saying.

    Not having ID fucks you.

    Yes, it does. But we don’t have situation (yet) where one of the kids needs ID and Nicole and Joe refuse to do the paperwork for them to get it. Is it coming? I don’t know. It did in the Pennington girl’s case, but her parents were religious fanatics. Joe and Nicole are not.

    So I’m standing by those kids being fucked.

    What you’re saying ( and I don’t disagree with you) is that the kids are facing an uphill battle. They aren’t necessarily “fucked.” Lots of people are raised in less-than-wonderful situations and do fine.

    I would venture to say that their lack of education is probably the biggest handicap they face. Coupled with the philosophy they’ve been systematically taught (by word and by example) to distrust everyone, especially authority figures, and yeah, it’s a problem.

    My objection comes when you guys start making doom-and-gloom prophecies.

  61. Do you think the address that Joe gave the officer of 6062 High Plains Rd. Vine Grove, Kentucky is legit?

    Legit, but very out of date. It’s one of the church-related houses they “rented.”

  62. The whole lack of oversight is one of the many reasons I detest HSLDA. I happen to live in a state with some oversight. Certainly more than Kentucky. We are required to register every year. We are required to submit our curriculum and materials used. We are also required to have children assessed annually by a certified teacher. We also have the option of testing instead of the annual assessment. It’s not as strict as one state that borders ours but is stricter than the others states around us. I know a woman who moved here from another state that requires nothing and she was appalled by how much interference the state had in schooling her children. Honestly I never felt it was that difficult here. Occasionally someone will be interested in homeschooling and will ask me what they need to do. I send them the state requirements but offer nothing more. I won’t hold someone’s hand if they choose to homeschool. If you cannot figure out the requirements then you have no business homeschooling. And I have no problem with state oversight, I’m glad to have someone else watching out for the welfare of my children. Yep, I guess I’m a statist. Hahaha!

    As to the pot issue. It’s illegal in my state, that is enough reason for me not to smoke it. I have teens and adult children. I am open about the legal ramifications of smoking it and getting caught smoking it. I’ve been clear that if drugs are used in my home by my adult children they will have to find another place to live. Yes that sounds harsh but my concern is my minor children and I will not allow anything in my home that compromises their safety. I’ll never be able to comprehend doing something illegal and putting your children at risk. I can’t imagine having CPS involved in my family, I can’t imagine not having legal custody of my kids. None of that sounds very free.

  63. Imagine going from 4 bedroom farmhouse on 20+ acres, with indoor plumbing, to a garden shed with no plumbing or insulation. All because the parents can’t get along with anyone.

  64. “As to the pot issue. It’s illegal in my state, that is enough reason for me not to smoke it.”

    Ditto for me but even if it becomes legal in my state I can’t smoke it. It could cost me my security clearance and my job. Regardless of whether I used it at home, on my own time and not while working.

    Fortunately they still permit caffeine via coffee or tea. Soda too but I don’t like soda.

    I hope the young couple will seek more education/training as it will lead to better job prospects. If not for themselves then for their child’s sake. Life is hard enough already.

  65. Those kids are fucked, Sally. EVEN IF Nicole and Joe, who have been open about no birth certificates (she and I discussed that in the comments of one of her posts, where I called it a birth right and she said it’s the government tracking people and she won’t let the government do that to her kids, and her word should be enough to prove they’re citizens), had a change of heart, it’s nigh on impossible to get birth certificates without a judge. All they’ll have is their word.

    Here, take a look at page 36 to see what’s needed to file for a birth certificate in Kentucky (we have nothing but her word on where any of the kids were born, with the exception of the pics of the babies born in the shack): http://chfs.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/8C9672A5-C25C-4C13-9E66-298D55C5FBAF/0/REGISTRARGUIDELINESREVISED_022012Final.pdf

    She needs proof of even being pregnant. Aside from the two that she’s posted in graphic detail on the internet, what proof is there for the others?

    Nicole would have to have a change of heart to even consider helping the kids get documents that she is so opposed to. The Pennington parents are religions, but Nicole and Joe are openly and hostilely anti-government. To even entertain the idea that Nicole might go along with helping those kids get birth certificates is giving her too much credit. She won’t do that even when there’s financial benefit to her.

    So yeah, those kids are fucked, and I’m standing by that. You might think that Nicole would turn around and get right to helping those kids do something that takes more effort, in the best of circumstances, than it would take to file a notice of intent to not-school, but she’s given me no reason to think she would. She wouldn’t even let her kids go to school even if the kids themselves wanted to. No government. At this point, those kids would need an attorney and a judge on their side. That takes money.

  66. The “everyone is out to get us” philosophy is much more dangerous than the educational neglect. I’ve worked in adult ed and it isn’t easy, but learning as an adult is very doable. Not having the identification and fearing the people who could help them will takes years to overcome before they can fully address the education issue.

    As for the social isolation of homeschooling, my middle son had this issue. He was a social butterfly in school, but couldn’t transition well to making friends outside of school. He’s been in private school less than a week and he’s back to Mr. Butterfly. It’ll be easier for him to learn to make friends outside of school with a safety net.

    As for pot, we just got medical in my state. Once everything is all set up nice and legal, I do want to try it. Couldn’t be worse than when I’m bad enough to need percocet and soma. At least I probably won’t be as nauseated. I wouldn’t take it illegally due to fear of the legal ramifications. I hate opiates, but at least my scripts shouldn’t put me in jail.

    Even at 2 am, one of my kids sensed I was posting here. x.x

  67. Raising a son with autism, there is nothing I appreciate more than ableist jokes about parents with aspergers. Let’s tell funny homeschooling jokes about down syndrome dad and bipolar dad too! Hilarious!

  68. Isn’t this the mobile home (owned by the church) that they trashed?

    I don’t know that any of the houses they “rented” were owned by the church. I think they were owned by church members who allowed the Ns to live in them, or rented to them for cheap. There were several of them.

  69. Those kids are fucked, Sally.

    Kaylee, I get your point. I assume I’ve said enough that you get mine. If you want to beat this dead horse some more, please go start your own blog. I’m tired of it.

  70. Bumpkin wrote “Do you think the address that Joe gave the officer of 6062 High Plains Rd. Vine Grove, Kentucky is legit?”

    Sally wrote, “Legit, but very out of date. It’s one of the church-related houses they “rented.”

    I believe, based on a photo I saw, it’s the doublewide mobile home. I believe, based upon both the written and spoken word, they had a land contract similar to what they have with their current land contract. Recalling conversation (video and/or audio) Nicole posted herself, Sheriff Pate mentions having another CPS investigation when they lived there but Joe denies they ever lived there. This *might be* the property a congregant or other church representative reported as having feces smeared on several surfaces. Joe might have served some jail time for flagrant non-support of his firstborn son, Alex, while they inhabited this property. Personal observation suggests this might be why Joe no longer has any traceable income.

    **Note: I am not writing this as truth or even as a rumor. I merely believe this to be the place and object of a few conversations about that particular property.**

  71. @Not Laughing

    My apologies. You’re correct, or course. I meant no offense, and I certainly understand why someone who suffer from Aspergers (or has a child on the spectrum) might take offense to what I wrote.

    Humor about stereotypes isn’t something everyone appreciates, and perhaps I should have been more sensitive to that, particularly with the terminology. Mea Culpa.

    Rest assured….my intent was not to make fun of those suffering from Aspergers, but to make fun of all home school parents who become so focused on teaching their own interests……that they become blind to neglecting very necessary subjects (in this case….the man was teaching advanced physics concepts, but failed to teach elementary reading comprehension, grammar, or writing)

    It was meant to illustrate the lack of logic…. of someone who was fired from his job for his inability to communicate, taking on the task of teaching young children. Effective communication being sort of a….hallmark….of teaching, you know?

    It was meant to show that home school parents have a LOT of blind spots, and run to eccentricity. God knows I had blind spots when I home schooled and am more than a little oblivious and eccentric, myself. I wouldn’t take offense to being called on that….cause it’s just true.

    So, thank you for pointing out my dumbassery….and again, my apologies. If I had the ability to edit, I would remove references to Aspergers proper and would simply call him “Oblivious Ex-Engineer Dad”

  72. If I had the ability to edit, I would remove references to Aspergers proper and would simply call him “Oblivious Ex-Engineer Dad”

    I do. 🙂 So I did that for you.

  73. @Kaylee – I agree with your statement “The Naugler kids are literally in a worse position to leave than a minority child born to a single mom with a gang-banger dead-beat dad in a bad ghetto.” except for the use of the word minority. Just think about that for a second. The “ghetto” is full of people of all races. Not just “the minorities”

    The reason I agree with you is that single ghetto moms still send their kids to public school so those kids are getting an education. They are not isolated like the Naugler children. They get access to school meals and some adult oversight than can call social services if things get out of hand.

    Also, for better or worse people in the ghetto tend to look out for each other. Again…. not isolated in the back woods of Kentucky so at least somebody can raise the alarm if something is amiss. Poverty does not equate to neglect. The Nauglers are neglectful.

  74. I was routinely attacked in school, verbally and sometimes physically, for having disabilities. That your comment got so many likes in its original form is disappointing to me. Casual ableism like that is rampant and very few people think to call others on it because it’s so socially acceptable.

    I understand what you are saying, Sally and DeNauglified, that there is little oversight to homeschooling. However, oversight frequently does not protect children from being tormented and abused by teachers, other children, and other kids’ parents. Your son experienced it, I experienced it, and these are just two of an unknown percentage of children whose lives have been wrecked and their ability to learn disrupted because oversight alone is not enough to prevent mistreatment.

    In fact, part of the crux of this blog, from what I can see, is that everyone here is horrified that CPS, which in this case has oversight, is allowing clear-cut ongoing educational neglect and unsafe living conditions, for reasons not entirely known.

    So, what are parents to do? The American school system is not great and we DO have data on that. As ad-hoc as engineer dad’s teaching skills may be (and I guess it DOESN’T go without saying that people communicate very differently at home with their kids than they do at work), that kid is probably getting more effective science education than in some of our schools, which have oversight and stats and facts and figures and formal curricula. And there’s no guarantee engineer dad’s kid would graduate as a good writer–I am often appalled at the writing skills demonstrated by people younger than 35.

    There are blind spots for homeschooler parents, sure, but there are plenty of blind spots for those in mainstream schooling. A huge one is that gifted kids– and yes, some parents are indeed correct when they label their kids that way, they’re not all ego-driven tiger moms/dads–are not considered as special needs kids, and their potential is wasted as schools do not properly adjust curricula to their needs. Perhaps homeschooling attracts eccentrics. I’d rather be eccentric with a well-adjusted child taught in a way that accommodates their needs than watch them struggle with the same ableist torment and inadequate education I received in mainstream school.

  75. That your comment got so many likes in its original form is disappointing to me. Casual ableism like that is rampant and very few people think to call others on it because it’s so socially acceptable.

    Come on. I saw it and didn’t even notice it.

    The American school system is not great and we DO have data on that.

    I find that sort of interesting. I know the homeschool world love to yammer on about it, but I think it’s probably not really true. The only public school I’ve had much to do with was the little school in our village in Alaska, and it was top notch marvelous. As good as anything you can imagine. And we have a friend who has a son in public school here, and he amazes me sometimes with what he’s learning.

    Remember that public education in America does differ quite a bit depending on where you are. That’s because it’s really not federal education at all, but local. If your schools are crappy, then it’s because your neighbors are fine with crappy schools.

    –I am often appalled at the writing skills demonstrated by people younger than 35.

    And I am simply blown away by the kids I’ve met. Just recently, we had a family visit us from another state. One of their high-school age sons is actually producing short videos for one of his public school classes. The kids had to do a video take-off on the Scarlet Letter. To do that, they had to first read and understand the book, and then come up with a story line that related (theirs was modern), and write the script and then film the whole thing. It was amazing. And he isn’t just some genius kid. He showed me videos that his classmates had done and theirs were also excellent.

    All this is purely anecdotal and thus proof of nothing, but it’s my admittedly limited experience. Our personal experience with the public school system was limited to Nathan’s senior year of HS, and it was far, far better than the Christian schools we’d wasted so much money on.

  76. I gotta say, the public schools here in Ohio have been a godsend for us. My son (who has Asperger’s) attends a school for the gifted that is absolutely top-notch…and free! He’s getting an education his father and I could in no way provide for him.

    When he was first diagnosed and we were struggling in a private Catholic school, I thought briefly I might have to homeschool him, and I was scared shitless. Hats off to those who pull it off successfully.

    The Nauglers are…not.

    And their failure just serve to highlight the lack of oversight.

    (Nobody asked, but I also thought the homeschool post was hysterical. I don’t think I noticed the Aspergers reference. Then again, it sadly takes A LOT to offend me.)

  77. Pardon me, please.

    Kaylee and Good Lawd,

    You are both imbeciles for even thinking to compare the Naugler children’s struggles to that of minorities – in particular, the poc you seem to so carelessly refer to as “ghetto”.

    And Kaylee, given the low intelligence and nagging repetition you regularly demonstrate here, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that, there is a good chance you too “are fucked”.

  78. I had two boys.
    One “gifted” and one severely hearing impaired and also gifted.
    Both were tested by professionals.
    The second son was the one I was constantly battling for.
    I was always there to make sure that his peers understood his impairment, by giving little inservices on hearing loss and how it affected every thing that my son did.
    In one lesson we had all the children wear earplugs. Their teacher then taught a simple class while their earplugs were in… and then a simple pop quiz after that.
    Nobody did well. But they then understood why my son needed interpreters.
    My son used fingerspelling when he was studying spelling.
    He would absentminded finger spell the words during the test. Kids sitting around him started making 100 just like he always did. Fortunately their teacher saw humor in this and although the children were talked to about cheating, they were also given the task to help my son teach the rest of the class finger spelling.
    My son was mainstreamed in most of his classes with interpreters, all the way through college.
    We, because of my husbands job, moved frequently and I would have to start the battle over again in each place.
    I was always respectful and kind, but I made sure both of my boys were taken care of.
    I also volunteered during my free time in every school. (wether the boys liked seeing their mama there or not😄)
    In one school, the program set up for my son was so good, that two other parents of hearing impaired children moved their children to my sons school.
    My point is, education is not just up to the teachers and other professionals.
    Concerned parents can make a Change for the better in any school, so long as they also do their homework on how to help make the change and expect to volunteer their time.
    Instead of crabbing about the schools, find ways to actually help.

  79. Kaylee said this: So yeah, those kids are fucked, and I’m standing by that.

    I find this disturbing, to be perfectly honest. Weren’t you posting in another thread about how gofundme accounts are legit and the public should embrace them?

    It seems at odds that you would have hope and trust for strangers asking (begging) for money online but yet no hope and trust in these kids being able to rise above their circumstances..?

    Let’s support and lift these kids up with our words – not make sweeping, extremely negative (and hurtful) statements regarding their futures!

  80. The public school teachers who did the most for me did so in spite of cack-handed mismanagement from the top. No Child Left Behind was terrible; Common Core is…well, at least it isn’t based on falsified data. Recently the Alaska Secretary of Education (I think that’s the title) sent out a pamphlet to all parents of school-aged kids in the state explaining that test scores for public school graduates entering college had been dropping, and so they had decided to overhaul the math and language arts scope and sequence to make them better. How did they do this? Examine class size issues, consider whether screening for learning disabilities was not working, check teacher qualifications, have textbooks gone over closely, consider the pedagogical methods in use, ask themselves whether the students were getting enough food at school and sleep before school? Nope! They made the tests tougher. Because, said this dude, “Higher expectations lead to higher performance!” And I sat there thinking about whether he’d ever even met a child, and I threw the stupid pamphlet into the burn pile.

    I think there should be a requirement that anybody who has the power to tell teachers what to teach should have actually been a teacher, for at least two years.

  81. Sally, those comments above re: ‘able-ist shaming’ are likely from Free Jingerers. They’re constantly bitching about innocuous ‘able-ist’ garbage.

    Just wanted to give commenters here a heads up. They’re likely trolls.

  82. That’s really tough to read about Essie. I’m so sorry that you had that bad a time of it in school. In the meantime, have you worked with groups to make things like this happen less frequently? Are there programs you support and would recommend to others?

  83. Seriously!!! The level of stupidity and disrespect which is shown by the PARENTS of this family towards a POLICE OFFICER is downright DISGUSTING!!! I am extremely embarrassed for them!
    yes.. we accept that this officer has his problems and it is unacceptable to even such things with a minor….but i still believe those 2 parents need a brain re-tune!! Shame on both of them…
    who knows what police officers go through each day to protect the American and Australian and Worldwide communities!!… those officers probably have faced death as part of their job, and while they are trying to protect the young one in regards to his safety in the car… the complete deadcrap parents display a filthy attitude and act like retarded legal know-alls to these officers!!
    Shame on the parents, and 10 out of 10 to for being downright immature and disrespectfull! (Oh.. and i feel sorry for the kids)
    10 out of 10 to those officers at the time, for composing themselves and attempting to protect those within the community.
    God Bless.

  84. All my kids are in public school, we have a great school district. That was one of the things I made sure to look into, before buying my house. That being said, I’m sure Nicole made sure to check the lack of educational requirements in her state, before she settled in to the Shitshack.
    My oldest daughter was bullied in middle school and even attempted suicide. I never considered homeschooling. I have a job and I know I couldn’t do as good a job as a teacher can. What I did was get her all the help I could. She was in the hospital for 2 weeks, she was in a in patient behavioral health facility for a week and then she had out patient group therapy. She also met with a counselor for about 6 months. As a parent, you do everything you can for your children. I helped her by providing the resources she needed to get through this period in her life. My daughter is doing great now, getting ready to go to college next year, to be an engineer. I’m so proud of her. 😁
    I have my middle daughter who will be I middle school next year, not looking forward to the hormone changes and emotions that come with this age. As a parent though, you worry about your kid’s future. I just don’t understand how Nicole can be okay depriving her kids of an education. I also don’t understand how Kentucky can be so lax on educational requirements. I mean, doesn’t having educated citizens benefit the state? Are there changes being made?
    I know I rambled on a bit and it seems like I didn’t have point. I think what I am trying to say is that kids get bullied…I don’t think pulling them out of school is necessarily the answer. The truth is, even adults get bullied but, you still have to go to work every day. You can’t protect all the time. The best thing you can do for them is give them tools so, that they learn to get through it. At first it will require your help but, you slowly have to let go.
    As for Nicole, she’s not providing these kids with any tools or skills to do anything in life.

  85. Totally off topic – but I just went through a fast food drive through and specifically asked for a sugar free French vanilla iced coffee with cream. But you know what they did? They gave me a hazelnut one instead. I started recording immediately and informed them that I had constitutional rights which entitled me to get what I asked for. They apologized but it was with a tone. I asked them who put them up to this but they insisted it was error. Yeah right. I told them I’m recording this and asked to speak to the CEO of the establishment. Meanwhile, on my other two phones, I got my lawyer on one and the cops on the other. They don’t know who they are messing with. They asked me if I could pull up and they would send manager out- so yes they were trying to isolate me so they could harm me. They pretended it was to take care of their other customers but I know it was so they could gang up on me. I was fearing for my life. And guess what, the cops never came – as usual.

  86. The resiliency of the human mind has always amazed me. I agree that the children are in a situation that isn’t conducive for social or intellectual growth, but there are many children who rise above situations that are similar and even above situations that are far worse. While it’s true that the odds may be stacked against children in less than ideal situations, there are many kids who do walk away from the lives they’ve known.

    I’m neither defending N and J nor am I making predictions but I think there are a couple of her kids who will look for a way out and once they begin working towards something better, they will provide examples for their other siblings. My mother couldn’t read or write and out of ten kids, she only had two graduate high school (my older sister and me). I was the only one of her kids to attend and graduate college and the only one in our entire family (cousins included) to successfully navigate graduate school. Many of my country relatives still think I should be able to write them a prescription for pain meds because I am, after all, a doctor. LOL….I keep telling them I’m not that kind of doctor but they don’t get it.

    I think we should all be careful about making predictions about the future lives of N’s children. We can, instead, agree that life will be more difficult for them to navigate but it won’t be impossible. And remember, all it takes is one person to inspire someone to greatness. Mine was a nurse. She worked on the polio unit where I was a patient. I don’t know if she worked long hours or if she hung around after she got off of work, but she always seemed to be there when I needed her. She taught me how to color in the lines, how to read, and how to write. When they weaned me from the iron lung, she held my hand and told me I could trust her to get me back in the lung when I needed more air and she was true to her words. I knew I could trust her. The day I left the hospital she said, Ms Jeannie, you will do great things. You are so smart and so strong. Just wait and see. For her, I stayed strong and I did do some pretty great things.

    I’m hoping for inspirational folks to land in those children’s lives at just the right time.

  87. And you know, now that I’ve had time to think about it, I think they were making fun of my hair too. I just got through blogging about it but then it dawned on me- they acted like they were looking me in the face- but I know they were looking at my hair. Why won’t they leave us alone? We have gone through enough. Lmbo

  88. That being said, I’m sure Nicole made sure to check the lack of educational requirements in her state, before she settled in to the Shitshack.

    I have the screen shot someplace. She actually said that. One of their criteria for picking a place to live is lax homeschooling laws.

    Are there changes being made?

    Currently, Kentucky has a government that thinks it’s 1825, so any changes being made are godawful.

  89. I think a lot of how we generally feel about home school -vs- public school is based on two things:
    *our personal experience, what made us decide to home school.
    *where we’re at in the journey.

    I think if you’d asked me when my kiddos were in elementary what I thought of public schools, I’d have given you an earful of negative propaganda. If not negative about public schools, I would be lauding the benefits of home school backward and forward, and insist that it was the right choice because I could do a better job than they could. And in elementary, I think I did. I’m really glad we home schooled elementary. I have no regrets, and I’d do it again.

    My issue with elementary, is that teachers are spread way too thin to actually do much of anything about addressing difficulties as they occur in a meaningful way, encouraging strengths, individualizing education. With 30 kids in a class and 7 hours in a school day, the amount of individual attention little kids get in a day from their teacher is less than ten minutes. Worse, it’s eroded by crowd control and keeping the class in order. In those little years when kids should be falling in love with learning, it seems like we do about everything possible to make it tedious and miserable….lol.

    I’m not blaming those brave folks who do teach elementary…they have my respect….because if I were tasked with educating 30 children who didn’t belong to me, I’d do no better. I just don’t think 30 kids under 10 is workable without losing. So much natural joy, curiosity, potential, initiative, exploration…limited and wasted.

    Developmentally, though, as kids get older, I think their needs to be more independence. There’s something really important about learning to responsibly organize, and develop the skills necessary to function reliably outside the home by yourself. Not saying there aren’t other paths up this mountain. Lot of home school kids find this independence taking co-op classes, going to community college, working, summer camp, etc. But yeah, the truly independent activities are important as kids move into middle school and high school. It’s a developmental milestone to have autonomy from your parents…and an important one.

    My older boys went the community college/work route, and were able to work at my husband’s business. Because they’re twins, they had a different support dynamic. It was easy for them to take on parental independence together. Community college was an easy and fun transition for them, because they had a built in buddy system.

    My youngest kid was our only experience with public school. In seventh grade she sat me down and said, essentially, “Listen, this has been fun, and I love you. But I want a best friend. I want to go to dances with boys. And I need a better math teacher. I’d like to try public school.”

    She went in eighth grade. And my husband and I were absolutely stunned….by the excellent education our tiny, rural, crappy, poor country school provided her. They tested her and put her in algebra one in eighth grade and she took off like a rocket. They had tons of AP classes in highschool that actually provided some challenge and excitement in high school. (not to mention a lot of free college credits). She found a best friend. She dated a little. She found a good Calculus teacher.

    Ultimately, I sold my youngest kiddo short. I had expected to send her to a local state college, or start her at community college. It was the public school teachers who pushed her to apply to a reach school, an ivy. Their AP opportunities, and their letters of recommendation that got her in. Was her hard work, and the resourcefulness of her counselors who found scholarship for her that made it all possible. It was her absolutely wonderful Calculus teacher (a middle eastern immigrant) who worked with her before school for ten minutes nearly every single day…that made a huge difference in the trajectory of my daughter’s life. Her independent life.

    (This is probably why I get so upset about the Naugs sequestering their kids from influences that might give them wings, might help them to realize unseen potential. Sometimes parents are kinda blind.)

    So yeah…as someone looking back….I’m torn about the public school -vs- home school debate.

    At different points in this journey, I would have felt very differently. If I had a special needs kid, or a severely bullied kid, I’d probably feel differently. Perspective informs prejudice.

  90. At different points in this journey, I would have felt very differently.

    I have bounced all around about it as well. I think, after all these years, that my bottom line take is that public school is not bad. Homeschooling is not bad, either, although much of it simply is unknown because nobody is keeping track. That unknown, untracked quality bothers me. Homeschooling was good for our child, and seemed to be the only solution at the time, however, I also know that it’s quite possible a different solution would have worked equally well. Private Christian schools suck. At least, every one I’ve ever had contact with has sucked. (But then, I think religion sucks, so there you are.)

    I have little patience with parents who loudly adamantly clamor for one solution or the other.

    And I have zero patience with parents who think that doing nothing at all (Naugler-style “unschooling”) is better than anything, or even marginally acceptable.

  91. @Concerned: Thank you 😊 for the LOL moment. I was beginning to despair about all the testiness in the comments these past couple of days.

  92. Concerned,

    That was funny, very good. It does show how absurd Nicole is. If she wasn’t so malevolent and if there weren’t Naugler kids involved there would be little to regarding Nicole other than to laugh at her crazy.

  93. Ok I’m going to be serious this time- just thought I would try to lighten things a bit earlier. Some were discussing the issue of the birth certificates. That was running through my mind while the children were in foster care. I kept thinking, if they were to try to enroll them in school, they would have a heck of a time because in order to obtain a birth certificate would be, in their case, for witnesses to the birth, which would have been the parents, to have signed which I’m sure they would have refused to do. My step mother was born at home (back when many were born at home), and she had to apply for birth certificate because hers was inaccurate as to date when she was born and it was time to apply for Social Security. Since at that time, both her parents were deceased, her oldest sister had to witness that she was present at the birth. They didn’t have to have pictures , etc., just witness. Anyway, now that we are reading that the oldest boy has a job- how did he get it without a SS card? So they must have gotten it for him or he is working without it (farm hand, something). That’s just my two cents worth. And whomever said that daddy probably doesn’t work due to that back child support issue is probably spot on.

  94. I am grateful that my children have been able to experience both public school and homeschooling. For now homeschooling works for the children who are still home, except for the one that also attends our local public high school part time. I really hate when either group complains about the other. I am a huge proponent of school options and believe strong public schools help us all whether or not we choose to use them. I have wonderful friends who teach in public, private, and charter schools. We have a diverse group of friends that send their kids to private, public, and charter schools along with friends who homeschool like us. I don’t think one choice is better than another. Each family needs to decide that for themselves, although educational neglect should never be an option. But seriously I hate bashing on public schools, just like I hate bashing on homeschoolers. It’s unnecessary. I am just thankful that I live somewhere where there are options for my children as their educational needs come first. If only Nicole understood that.

  95. @SheerLuck- you are welcome. Sometimes we just have to stop and breathe. But I will say in reference to the birth certificate issue- I wondered about that while the children were in foster care. If they had tried to place them in a school, a birth certificate would have to have been acquired. That would mean, the only witnesses to the birth(s), being the parents, would have to sign as witnesses to the birth. That would have been an ordeal- if they refused- the courts would have had to get order forcing parents to sign and they would not have complied. But we all now know that the oldest son has a job. That’s where he met his fiancé. So that would lead one to assume that they did help him get his birth certificate so he could get SS card. Or he is working as a farm hand or something that wouldn’t require it. And whoever says that the father wasn’t working probably because of the back child support issue was probably spot on. Can’t garnish a check that you don’t get.

  96. Sorry for duplication. When I tried to post the first one regarding birth certificates, I got message that it was duplicate. Then I saw SheerLuck’s comment and as I replied back to it, included a synopsis of my birth certificate post that I didn’t think posted. Shew- my head is spinning now. Have a good weekend folks. And just want to say many thanks to you Sally for all you have done here. When I first heard of this story, I literally read post after post in the homestead blog, watched videos. Found so many discrepancies that just boggles my mind as to how the blind followers were not picking up on. I was engulfed. Then I quit reading anything after the kids were returned. So just recently I was wondering how the kids were and found this. I’m sorry n has said such awful things to and about you and your family. That is lower than low. I haven’t seen you say anything ugly about her kids. Admirable.

  97. So that would lead one to assume that they did help him get his birth certificate so he could get SS card.

    Jacob had a birth certificate issued at birth.

  98. I’m sorry for the duplications and stuff that seem to be happening. I’m not sure how to fix it and that’s why I haven’t. 🙂

  99. @Anna Nimuss: The problem for me wasn’t the bullies alone, but the faculty and administration who had one firm unwritten policy: The one who makes the most noise gets the punishment.

    One of the proudest moments of my homeschooling life so far was the day that my kids, coached by me, overcame their natural unwillingness to make a fuss and told a nasty neighborhod bully that she wasn’t allowed to play with them anymore. And I backed them up.

  100. I wasn’t going to comment on this thread, but as it turned to educational choices such as homeschool vs. public School vs. Christian school vs. private school…on and on I felt the need to add my 2 cents. I worked as a para professional in a different district other than the one my kids were attending and as parent volunteer in their schools. They are both in their 30s now, but started public school in a relatively small rural school district. Their education, their opportunities were excellent. I could not ask for a better experience for them. I volunteered in both their classrooms and in their grade levels…no, I wasn’t a helicoptor parent. I did everything from being a reading coach to 1st graders to dissecting cow eyeballs with 2nd graders (now THAT was gross!) to being a knowledge bowl coach for middle schoolers . That was a kick! Imagine Trivial Pursuit ramped up by 10! I was so impressed by these kids! I also was working on my grad degree in epidemiology studying migrants working in the fields exposed to aerial spraying of both pesticides and herbicides. Even though not my field of study, one thing I observed over and over again while I was involved in our school district was that it didn’t matter if the kids were in our public schools, charter school, or the one Christian School that was in town. Parents were always boastful of the school their kids were attending and would try to one-up another parent whose child may have attended a different school in the district. It always kind of made me laugh because I administrated some of the programs that ALL the kids of that age were involved in. What I walked away from my experience as both a para professional and parent volunteer was that it did not matter by what methodology their kids were taught by. What made the greatest difference was the parental involvement. I saw this over and over again. The schools that had a high parent participation rate were the ones that scored higher on the standardized test. Even the ESL schools where the kids were immersed in English, but Spanish was their primary language. There were parents who bought in the classroom opportunities to learn themselves and to help their kids succeed as well. What I saw was that kids whose parents bought into their education were the ones who greatly excelled in the classroom as a result of their parent’s support. Involved parents made the difference! Pretty cool beans!

  101. I was very upset with our school district I felt like the teachers were just done trying. My youngest was behind in everything. I was ready to pull him out and homeschool but I’ll be honest I’m dislexic, can’t spell of beans and can’t figure out new math for anything. Jenny posted some links last year and we checked them out. Kayden did school then “homeschool” after school and on the weekends to try it out and see if I could really do it. Something clicked with kayden he started advancing quickly and went from the bottom of his class to the top. At the start of this school year he was placed in all advanced classes and just passed his highly capable test. (I’m not sure yet what all it entails but next year he will be in an all new program with less students to teacher ratio) sometimes all they need is some extra time. Btw jenny I will forever be grateful for you I honesty believe you help change kaydens life.

  102. If anyone needs more evidence that this blog is effecting positive change, just see Crystal’s thank-you post to Jenny above.

  103. I’m glad it helped! Meanwhile, my Mother Necessity’s Homeschooling Kit posts on my LJ are snailing along, although I understand that with the recent move to Russia I may have to go to Dreamwidth or get hacker stank all over my account.

  104. My path to full homeschooling started with supplementation at home. Even if the school is awesome, they may have something lacking. For instance, my boys are half Hispanic and list themselves as Hispanic for their ethnicity. Despite that and the fact they speak Spanish at home, the school wouldn’t allow them to take Spanish because they were only half (and my gringa genes were strong so they look like the whitest white boys to ever white boy). Spanish isn’t offered to non-Hispanic students at all, so I had to supplement that subject at home. The school also did not teach cursive writing and were very lax in enforcing spelling. They claimed they were unnecessary in the new “digital world.” Not in my house. My oldest son needs tons of one-on-one time that the school just didn’t have the resources to give. Between all this plus the occasional subject they needed help with and fun detours, I was already doing at least 10 – 15 hours a week just supplementing my oldest boys. Thankfully, I could work with both of them at the same time quite a bit.

    This comes from my dad being a general contractor. He subcontracted out much of the job, but he was responsible for the outcome. As parents, we trust our kids with various subcontractors (teachers, doctors, therapists, etc.), but we are ultimately responsible for each of those aspects. If the subcontractor isn’t preforming to expectations, you either put in extra effort to help them or you fire them and find a different one.

    I did my best to work with the public school. I understood the teachers were underfunded and overcrowded (55+ kids to a class with an “aide” who was alway busy away from the classroom when anyone asked to see her). My choice was either to overburden my kids with supplementation on top of their school work, change schools, or straight out homeschool. I tried changing schools. Public school denied a transfer and private was out of our budget at the time. That left only one option.

    Hilariously, my middle son who returned to private school this week was actually upset I didn’t have extra work for him. He complained so much before, but now he’s asking for more stuff to learn.

  105. Congrats Crystal and Kayden. Glad to hear he is doing so well. Thank you Jenny for all your great sources and suggestions.

  106. Nothing to add to current discussion, but I need HELP!!!

    Tomorrow is my eldest son’s 16th birthday and he wants a lemon layer cake, with lemon curd between the layers and swirled across the top…and with fluffy white frosting. Going by the pic he’s shown me, closest thing I’ve found is “7 minute frosting”…which is pretty much a meringue. And of course the weather is miserable, mid 40s, foggy, rainy. It’s been a while since I’ve done a meringue but I know my grandmother wouldn’t even attempt one if the humidity was on the higher side lol. Anyone have secret tips or tricks for success???? He really has his heart set on this and still believes his mama can do magic (and I don’t really have a back up plan *gulp*)

  107. Calyxta,
    Why not make the cake and just before serving cover the rope with homemade meringue cookies. I used to make cupcakes with lemon curd and a simple meringue cookie on top… I always made extra meringues to satisfy my boys who just wanted the meringue.

  108. My answer to that cake….is to bake a yellow cake from a box, poke it full of holes, pour lemon pudding down the holes and between layers, frost it with Kool Whip, and leave it in the fridge overnight.

    Wish I could help. Happy Birthday to him:)

  109. Stabilized whipped cream? I have The Joy in front of me–hang on a sec.

    The proportions given for a generous 2 cups whipped cream (this should stretch far enough if you’re filling it and topping it with lemon curd) are:

    1 cup cold heavy cream
    2 tsp. to 2 tbsp. sugar, 1 to 4 tbsp. confectioner’s sugar, or 2 tsp. honey
    Half tsp. vanilla

    IME this gives a nice fluffy result. Before preparing the whipped cream, let 1/2 tsp. plain gelatin stand in 1 tbsp. cold water in a heatproof cup for 5 minutes, then set the cup in a pan of simmering water until the mixture is melted and clear, then cool to room temp. Beat this mixture into the whipped cream as it begins to thicken. Fill and frost your cake up to a day in advance. Keep refrigerated when not serving.

    Note that I’ve never actually made this, so good luck!

  110. Calyxta – try this!

    Part 1: Combine 1/3 cup water and 1 tablespoon of cornstarch into a saucepan and whisk constantly over medium heat until the stuff thickens and clears and vaguely resembles Vaseline. (No. Not kidding here.) Allow the stuff to cool completely to room temperature.

    Go ahead and pull out 4 large eggs from the fridge, separate and set the whites aside to come to room temperature, too. Reserve the yolks for another use.

    In a small bowl, combine 1/2 cup of granulated sugar and 1/2 teaspoon of cream of tartar. Mix well and set aside.

    When the cornstarch mixture is cooled…:

    Part 2: Place the egg whites and 1/2 teaspoon of vanilla into a scrupulously clean mixer bowl. Begin whisking slowly at first until it begins to foam, then increase speed to high and begin adding the sugar mix one tablespoon at a time, whisking until the sugar is dissolved before adding more. Repeat until all the sugar is aded and whip until soft peaks form. Now, turn down the speed to medium and begin adding the cornstarch mix in spatula-sized globs (half to a third at a time) and incorporate. Raise speed to high and whip until you reach a very stiff, thick peak. They will be firm, rigid and glossy.

    Dollop about 2/3 of the meringue around the perimeter and spread toward the center, then add the remainder to the center building a dome. Then spike with the back of a large spoon.

    Bake in a 325-degree (F) oven for 20-30 minutes until the meringue is a light brown.

    Good luck. This has worked time and again for me and family members. It’s the cornstarch mixture that ensure success.

  111. @crystal & Jenny, can I ask what the links are that you tried? My youngest son is in 1st grade. He is not behind but, he gets frustrated when he doesn’t understand something. He now meets with his school counselor every day to finish up his daily classroom work. His report card said that when he doesn’t understand something he shuts down and won’t even attempt to do the work. He is now meeting with a play therapist, provided by the school district, about 2x per month.
    Unfortunately, I can’t homeschool him, our family relies on my income. As I mentioned in a previous post, we have a great school district. His play therapist will follow him through HS, if needed. I meet with her every couple of months to see how he is doing and she provides me with good information, as well as things I can work on with him at home.
    If you have information or links, I can try with him at home, I would be so grateful.
    Sally, I also want to thank you for providing such a great resource for your followers. I really get a kick out of all the comments and how they can go from “belted” to homeschooling. The difference between your followers and Nicole’s followers, is that yours are well-rounded, educated, and we care about what the future has in store for our children. 😊

  112. “Belted” to homeschooling and now sharing cake recipes. I think that is so awesome. 🤣 Good luck with your cake and happy birthday to your son. My baby boy will be 7 on January 24.

  113. Damn you all! Now I want cake!

    If I’m able to find my mom’s German chocolate cake recipe, I’ll share. It’s amazaballs.

  114. Clarification: I use the recipe and tips from that book for regular whipped cream all the time, but I’ve never made the stabilized version.

  115. I’m making a cake tonight, nothing exciting, just chocolate. My 14 year old requested it and since it’s chilly I figure it will warm up the house a bit more.

  116. My favorite no-fail icing recipe is pretty good on Lemon cake.

    1 1/2 cups of softened (not melted) salted real butter
    2 cups powdered sugar
    2 tsp vanilla or lemon extract

    Beat softened butter until creamy (I do this by hand, but you can use a mixer)
    Slowly add powdered sugar until combined
    – if you think you need liquid, you just need to keep on mixing, it will incorporate and be very tasty. Trust me!
    Next, add vanilla or other extract.

    There you go! Simple and the best icing ever. I sometimes make a tiny batch, keeping the ratios correct, for myself to eat while watching television. Don’t tell 😜

  117. My favorite no-fail icing recipe is pretty good on Lemon cake.

    This is just terrible. I will probably have to make it and I know I shouldn’t. 🙂

  118. @Dinah: It’s going below zero tonight with the wind chill, so I figured that today would be a great time to bake a ham.

  119. Sally, that icing is a curse.

    Takes less than a few minutes to whip up and is responsible for my weight gain.

    This is fair warning, it will make you fat. 😂

  120. @Anna Nimuss: When my kids were going through frustration-shutdown phases in early primary, starfall.com helped a lot. It was designed by teachers who thought that the educational software available at the time was terrible. It covers the 3 Rs using self-paced, simple games.

    Speaking as an autistic person, it’s a very restful site. You don’t have to have the sound on to use it, but if you choose to have the sound on, it’s very simple stuff, voiced mainly by kids. None of that “Hey, kidz, do yuh wanna play a GAAAAME?” attitude that makes most school-aged children roll their eyes and stop listening. All graphics are large and firmly outlined, without eye-shocking hues. Animation is basic and fun to watch. It’s jampacked with Easter eggs and mini-games, so that kids can retake lessons as needed and not get bored. And when they’re done with the games, kids can actually read!

    You can explore parts of the site for free or pay a small fee for annual access.

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