During my younger years, when Nathan was busy being born and being a young child, we were very religious.  We attended a church I refer to now as the “Fundy Church From Hell.”  It was one of those fairly common, typical fundamentalist Christian churches, complete with a Christian school where Nathan was educated.


When he was a teenager, we had a bit of an epiphany and left the church.

Just prior to that time, and for a while afterwards, we got some anonymous letters.  There was no internet in those days, so these came via the US mail. Some were postcards.  Some were in envelopes.  The two different types made it fairly obvious that they came from two different people.

We later identified one of them as Dave’s boss (elder of the church) by tracing the typewriter he used to write them to his office. Those just poked general jabs at us. He didn’t like it that Dave grew a beard, for example. His wife totally misinterpreted a remark made by toddler Nathan at a baby shower and told her husband who wrote to us about it.  Dumb stuff. And he later on did it to other people, including other employees, and ultimately lost his job as a result.

The second person was taunting us just prior to us leaving the church and in the immediate aftermath.  You have to understand that leaving the Fundy Church From Hell was just not done.  It was tantamount to spitting in the face of Jesus.  They did not take it well.

We didn’t make a big scene when we left. We just walked out the door one Sunday and never went back, but it was still seen as a threat of some sort, so somebody retaliated with nasty letters.

I didn’t even see most of those, because Dave intercepted them at the mailbox and destroyed them.


We never knew who sent them.

It has been more than 20 years and we still wonder sometimes.  We speculate about it, idly.  There is a list of suspects and I think our letter writer is on The List, but we’ll never know for sure.  However, occasionally, we wonder. And on that list of suspects are some perfectly innocent people.  We just don’t know which ones they are.

That is the nature of anonymity.

It casts suspicion all over the place. You make these mental lists of possible suspects. It affects your relationship with each of those folks. Even when/if you find out who the real culprit is, you’ve already gone through the mental gymnastics of analyzing the character of all the other people on your list and determined that they might have done it, hence their inclusion, and from that point forward, your relationship is tainted.

We didn’t get these for very long. Somebody else left the church and they went after those people instead of us.  And there were only a few of them. But that was enough to come up with The List.

I hate anonymity.

That experience is the reason that I have no fake Facebook profiles. I’ve never made a sock puppet. I’ve gone into the very valid reasons why my husband was a little concerned when this blog went up.

Nicole dismisses that with this.

better be glad

I haven’t ever accused him of any such thing. What I said was that my husband was concerned because it’s a fact that Joe Naugler has a criminal record and served jail time for what Kentucky calls “menacing.”  Nicole might think that means nothing, but to my husband, it means plenty.

Oddly she goes on to post this about three hours later.

tread lightly

I don’t “really get into TV shows” either, and have never watched Breaking Bad.  I didn’t even bother watching this until somebody told me I probably should. So I did, and I got the message, Nicole.

My husband was right, of course, to be at least mildly concerned.

So that’s why I made a half-hearted stab at anonymity. I knew it wouldn’t last and in fact, wanted to end it long before I did, but continued only because I was getting the love letters pretty regularly and didn’t want to stop them. It was a nice collection.

But what happens with anonymity is that because you don’t know who sent the letter, you come up with your own List.  You’re basically blaming everyone on The List for writing the letter.

It’s not fair, of course. Nor is it reasonable. But it’s what happens.

This is the reason that Nicole has a habit of calling anyone who criticizes her a “troll.” There have been so many fake identities and sock puppets that it just turns into a Big List and they are all a collective they. So one fake person says X, and another fake person says Y, and in her mind, every person who is opposed to her in the slightest way is guilty of X and Y.

And of course, she lumps me in as well.  I made The List early on, under my real name (which is the only name they’ve ever had for me because it’s the only name I use).  There were 55 of us on The List.  The Naugler Enemy List.

And she’s been lashing out wildly, flailing around fruitlessly,  trying to take out the people on The List.

And on the other side there is the whole list of Naugler fakes. “Jack Schitt,” for example.

It’s a mess. It drives me crazy. I wish it didn’t exist. I understand why people do it. I know that being taunted because your child died isn’t fun and doesn’t feel good, and I totally get the desire to lash back, and if it takes using a sock puppet to do the lashing, well. . .

I also know that there are very real concerns that equal or exceed my husband’s concern about Joe Naugler’s criminal record. People have families that are vulnerable. They are employed and don’t want trouble at their workplace. The Nauglers have participated or encouraged or condoned that sort of thing right from the start.

It’s an interesting thing to me that Nicole raises holy hell about fake identities on her pages and bans them immediately.

fake trolls


It’s her page, of course, and her right to do so, but what I find sort of fascinating is this fake profile.


I’ll have much more to say about “Charles Smyth” later on, but he’s very much a fake and very much tolerated on Nicole’s pages.

He’s also very much her little sycophant.


Nicole has little conversations with “Charles.”  Nicole is very comfortable with “Charles.”  Too comfortable.

“Charles” functions a bit like a bouncer. “He” rushes to Nicole’s side whenever “he” thinks she is being threatened in some way by somebody who is disagreeing with her and he often does the “TROLL ALERT” thing like he’s this brilliant detective or maybe a Geiger counter.

So some fakes are fine. Others are not fine and are banned.

I strongly suspect the fakes that are fine are the ones that Nicole knows because she knows who the real person is behind them.  That or she is the real person behind them.

And that brings us back full circle.  When you use fakes, you create uncertainty not just about who around you might be guilty of doing a specific deed, but about yourself.  It works both ways.

And that’s why I don’t use fakes.

Nicole dead junkie

I included a copy of Nicole’s one comment (under her real name) here.

Jacob’s comment was denied, after I gave it a little thought, because he is underage.

And no, I don’t have balls, something you’ll just have to take my word about.  Nicole doesn’t either, something the whole world knows because she posts photos of her genitalia during childbirth.

Jacob’s comment put me between a rock and a hard place. If I had approved it, she would have howled and screamed that the resultant conversation was “attacking her underage children.” I knew that if I didn’t approve it, she would also howl. You know, it’s something like President Obama and the Republicans in Congress. I couldn’t do anything “right.”

Suppose there was a town with an average number of banks (dozens, I would presume), and let’s suppose that one of those banks got robbed on a day in July.


And the police came and interviewed the tellers and customers who were in the bank during the robbery and they all said that the guy (it was a man) wore a multi-colored crocheted face mask and was tall and thin.

In August, the same bank got robbed again by a tall, thin robber wearing a multi-colored crocheted face mask.

In September, ditto. And October.

By November, the bank manager and the police (who are admittedly a little slow here) start to see a pattern, so they lay a trap, and lo and behold, a tall, thin guy wearing a multi-colored crocheted face mask comes into the bank in November and tries to rob it.  But our clever cops and bank manager are prepared and catch him.

When they get him to the police station and take his statement, he admits to the attempted robbery, but insists that he didn’t have anything to do with the robberies in the previous four months.  Nothing. He is just plain innocent of them.  It was a different tall, thin man wearing a multi-colored crocheted face mask.

And anyone who suggests that he might be the culprit in all the robberies is “lying.”

You know how Nicole could exonerate herself from all the other “robberies”?  She could tell us who wrote them. She knows, of course.  Tell us the identity of the other tall, thin man wearing a multi-colored badly-crocheted face mask.


23 thoughts on “Anonymous”

  1. Nicole tell the truth on anything? Now that is far fetching. Might have better luck of her being hit with infertility first. So she is never going to admit to anything as that would go against what she lives for and believes in.

    Nicole does think she is smarter than the average bear but she always seems to out herself a bit down the road. It is kind of comical to what her go into a frenzy when she gets caught outing herself – no make that hilarious as she acts like a toddler having a temper fit. If they had contest for the best liar like they do for comedians she would get a grammy right out of the gate. What is sad about all of this is that is what she is teaching those kids to do is being liars and deceitful with that added to their poor education they will struggle for sure in life.

    Nicole is the Queen of all Queens when it comes to drama. She thrives on it and has to keep it going and going and going. You know like the Energizer bunny. It is a close tie of what she is better at lying or reproducing. I guess we would have to give the win to lying cause she can not reproduce by herself but she can make up lies by herself.

    I really believe that woman does not have a soul. I have yet to see her show true sympathy for anything – not her children (she was more concerned about herself than her children when they were in foster care. Not once did she shed a tear, there was a good try at it when WAVE was there but it was not genuine), not when in the multiple video of the kids that they would fall down did she show any concern (instead she had to keep the camera rolling to capture it), not any of her supporters (and there have been some that were in need of it) and most of all not even for the woman she patterns herself after – her grandmother when she passed away. Nicole did not that I saw make a post about being sad, loving or missing her grandmother when she passed a woman who seems to be her idol when it comes to reproduction. I am a tough cookie but I bawled like a baby when my grandmother died and still mention her and how much I miss her. I do have to admit that I was really shocked that she did not use her grandmother passing for one of her all time pity parties. But she does not seem to be looking for that type of pity that involves sorrow she is more it to the hateful pity parties = the ones that get the supporters riled up and on her side to defend her.

    IMO the reason why she can poke so much fun at those that have passed and has done it to many be it a child who died at birth, a parent or other family member that has passed is because she has no soul and does not know what empathy is. She might find it out when she has to deal with the passing of a very close loved one but not going to hold my breath on it.

    So I guess it is safe to say that Nicole will take the true identity of those nasty sock pages to the grave with her. We do have them figured out but to get 100% confirmation on it from her = never going to happen.


  2. And then the funny thing is she posts a video of the ‘Non Agression Principle’. This woman is psyco. A complete and total psycotic little mess.


  3. Nicole, you’re not fiery, feisty or strong IMHO. You’re cutting off your nose to spite your face, IMHO. Maybe this a common theme in your life? Bless your heart.


  4. I worry that something will happen to one of her beautiful children because of her and Joe’s neglect. Be it luck or God’s mercy that nothing tragic has happened this far. Eleven children, no medical care, no proper diet, no supervision, it’s only a matter of time. This will be the parents fault. I can’t help but feel that the state has failed these children. I know that she says everything is “hunky dory ” and they are doing whatever they want, whenever they want. Will the state take responsibility for neglecting their duty to protect these children? I feared that the garden shed would catch fire because of their carelessness. The pond worries me with all the little ones running around. It only takes a minute for a child to wander off. Did the state not want to take the time and the resources to get these children the help they need? It is new territory and would use up a lot of resources that this family needs. I’m just confused as to why they are allowed to make their children live like this. The kids do not know any better, so they can’t compare to anything else.
    I seen that they purchased bagged dirt, fertilizer etc. I can’t help but think it would be cheaper to buy canned goods in bulk. I’m rambling….I just can’t wrap my head around all they do and what little they are being held responsible for.
    I did notice the oldest daughter has new eyeglasses. I hope her parents have enough sense to make sure her eyes are examined every year.
    BTW, I’m one of the original 55.


  5. Nicole has not fooled anyone but herself. If you tell a lie often enough you believe it for truth. She is nothing more than a wart on the ass of society, bleeds when aggravated but eventually falls off.


  6. There are not too many things the Nuaglers are consistent with except lying, reproducing and begging. What can you expect with someone with these life skills? Not much. Integrity does not enter her vocabulary and truth is not a concept she understands.

    I sincerely hope she gets so tangled up in her outright lies and half truths that her BLH page, blogs, child exploitation videos as well as her personal hate pages fall flat and vanish forever. Then she can finally get down to what is important, raising her kids. She might even find the energy to get her lazy ass, Joey, to do his share of work around the place. Oh and let’s not forget the most important thing , properly educating her children. After all, homeschooling was her reason for why the kids were kidnapped in the first place.

    Sigh…this may be a pipe dream because she is never going to let go of her online fantasy world or be a decent Mother even if she did.


  7. Very intriguing writing, Sally. And so true, “that is the nature of anonymity.
    It casts suspicion all over the place. You make these mental lists of possible suspects.”

    I disdain anonymity, too. It’s telling of character, imo. The bank robbery is a good analogy. Hiding behind the multi-colored crocheted mask, to do dastardly deeds while cloaking identity. And likely never remorseful, but for the sake of getting caught.

    Dave was rightfully so, to be concerned, after your receiving vicious “love letters” with cloaked identity. As well, I truly regard the concerns of people who have spoken, in comments on non supporter and critic’s pages. People who were not anonymous, that soon became subjected to vitriol deeds. Vile and detrimental attempts to make them fearful, in their non anonymity.

    Oh what a wicked web she weaves, in a world of fake and anonymity. The multi-colored crocheted mask bank robber, robbing her treasure less bank(soul)… she be.


  8. I actually watched the non-aggression video. Yikes, it’s violent. She says the kids watch it. I’m assuming that means the kids of all ages. Plus, it talks about lying and fraud. Well, let’s just say, her lack of self-awareness and absence of insight into her own behavior is once again stunning.

    At the very least, she is the queen of lies of omission. The only thing I’ve seen her set the record straight on is when followers assume her kids are untainted by the internet and social media and she acknowledges that, in fact, her kids spend lots of time online. Other than that, she lets people make all kinds of favorable assumptions and assertions about the condition of the homestead and its residents, without ever clarifying the truth.

    And, speaking of videos, I’ve watched two out of three of the human shield videos. They are so sad. There is an undercurrent of fear and anxiety. One of the little boys worries about the wood stove failing and the generator quitting. The other one talks about invading coyotes. The littlest guy sounds like he’s spent time thinking about how he can get away from the homestead and run all the way to the place in town where he feels safer. I noticed she didn’t ask him if he was afraid of using the outhouse at night. Her willingness to subject her kids to such deprivation really does suggest she just doesn’t feel empathy.

    Jane, You’re right about her not being strong. Her actions speak loudly. If she were strong she would be able to ignore everything being said about her. She has clearly shown that she is incapable of doing that.


  9. I’m suprised she’s kept her facade up this long. I would love to face off with her one on one. She abuses those kids regardless of wether she does it physically or not, there is emotional abuse & verbal abuse 2 of which I feel she uses regularly. Not sure if they can still be found but there were questionable marks on her face, that looked like bruises. She claimed them to be the “mask of pregnancy ” funny how it got lighter and lighter and then became non existent for the remainder of pregnancy.. There have been other times where it looks like she’d been socked in the face, times where she was pregnant but played the “I don’t see what marks you’re talking about ” bs. We aren’t stupid. What sucks is she is raising boys to believe this okay to do to a female while at the same times sjes teaching the girls this is how relationships work. No no no!


  10. Take a close look at the little guy’s footwear in the most recent video. His shoes are worn over bare feet (in March, when he is wearing long sleeves!), lack shoelaces, and are extremely worn and dirty, with the tongues hanging out of them. There is no way a child can run safely in these shoes, which I strongly suspect have been passed down from his older siblings – lots of his older siblings.

    It’s been a very long time since those shoes were new. But even if those battered little shoes are the best his parents can provide, couldn’t they use some of all that ribbon that’s at the grooming shop and tie up those poor little shoes with nice new colorful bows?? Couldn’t they wipe the mud off of them?

    I have no problem with hand-me-downs, and I realize that small children get dirty – but this beautiful, bright little boy looks so ill-clad, dirty, unkempt, and neglected. I also noticed that when he fell backwards, he laughed and picked himself up, and his mother made no effort to see if he was okay. I expect these little ones have learned to “bounce” and make little of small hurts and bruises, which is fine to a degree, but it also reminds me of children living in eastern European orphanages, who also learn to laugh at pain and to comfort themselves – because no one else is going to do it.

    Just so sad. Just such a waste.


  11. For what it’s worth, my guess for CS, if it’s not a family member, is non-bikini JP.

    My faux facebook account and I have been around since the get-go. Even though I used a fake account, I always tried to comment on the merits of things and avoid personal attacks. I thought people online could be scary before the Naugler saga began, but now I’m really on guard. I am so sorry that so many of you have had to endure the horrible behavior of Nicole and her fans.


  12. Truthisawhisper, I couldn’t agree with you more but honestly I believe that possible suspect list is very short.
    Joe and Nicole both are the ring leaders in this ongoing online harassment.
    As I have stated before, many of their supporters are in fact dangerous, the Nauglers know them and who they are and do not care that they seek out Non-Supporters to attempt to humiliate, intimate, and discredit by harassing online and off line and in their private lives.
    Joe and Nicole just set back and laugh while they get people to do their duty work. Just like Supporter Naomi Thompson did the other day in the “Education” section of this blog.
    And lets not forget Charles, Jack, Donny !!!!

    They all hide and try to hide the truth. But hey, isn’t that what real Con Artists do !!!!


  13. Before May, 2015, or as I like to call it, P.N.E. (Pre Naugler Era), who ever heard of fake Facebook accounts or pages? By the end of May, I had had a Berlitz immersion course.

    The bullying and stalking was unreal. And exactly what the Nauglers wanted, to shut me up, run any critic out of town and keep The Naugler Illusion impenetrable. Little did I know that they had done this with dozens of other people.

    Eventually I found others similarly treated. It was illuminating.
    The Nauglers are no different than the people who run Nigerian cashier’s check scams, or the folks who pose as your best friend stranded in Manila without any money. Send Western Union money transfer please. Or the folks who perpetrate IRS scams with angry phone calls demanding you pay delinquent taxes, immediately, with your VISA card. Only the pissed off “agent” named Kevin always sounds like he’s from Bangalore.

    Enough victims fall prey to such scams. Enough decent, hard-working rats fell victim to the Nauglers’ GFM grift, the Capistan “loan”, their Paypal, donations…. and bullying and threatening anyone who didn’t buy their bullshit.

    Now the real me keeps silent, but I’m very grateful for this blog. Keeping it real.
    With thanks to the glorious actor Peter Finch, for his line from “Network”:

    “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore.”


  14. Nicole Naugler says she isn’t a con artist.
    Nicole Naugler says she doesn’t live off of donations.
    Nicole Naugler says she doesn’t need your money.

    So, just don’t send Nicole Naugler any money.

    Do not send money. Do not send gifts. Do not donate.

    Prove her right.


  15. #sendsnack Afrigging men. She don’t need it so don’t send it.. See what happens to the shitshack.


  16. Dawn, Excellant post and my thoughts as well except I would replace Nigerian scam with Oregon standoff. Same type of stuff happened. [intimidation/threats online and IRL] Those folks are in jail cells for federal crimes, not the online/IRL naugleresque we have seen here. Same stuff. Thanks for your post.

    Anon posting/fake profiles……Sometimes people have to for name sake. It does not always mean ill intentions. I can think of a couple celebs with fake names that troll and interact, same with any high profile family, the kids usually have ‘other names’ to be ‘free’….to speak their mind, hang out with friends and like minded without being outed or having the family name shamed.


  17. Doe heaven
    I wholeheartedly agree with you . The state is failing these precious children . I have always said it’s not IF it’s WHEN CPS comes back to rescue the kids . As a mandated reporter I continue to notify CPS on a weekly basis . Sometimes more frequently . Often times more frequently and I will continue to do so until they are finally freed. I’m not maliciously going after N or J . I believe along with so many others these kids are verbally , emotionally, neglected and abused . I don’t take pride or joy in my weekly calls / reports . I truly wish I could stop altogether. I cannot . I will not . Mrs N is so much more mentally sick than I ever knew . She is on a very slippery slope and going down fast . She is going to snap one day as shown on her pages . At times I cannot sleep at night worrying about those kids . As one poster said the human shield prescripted videos are so painful to watch . It’s a matter of time / statistics before one of those kids gets really hurt at the hands of their very own parents or the elements. I do not care to ever notify N to get a refund on her Go-scam-fund-me . My donation is long gone. I do care to continue to make reports to all local agencies regarding the neglect and abuse . I am certain justice will prevail . It is on a wing and a prayer that it’s not too late , to be sure . Mrs. Davis thank you for this articulate well written blog . You have pure talent . Raw honesty , you are assuring that those kids have a platform , a voice , by many . Though I’ve been around long before CPS rescued the kids it is this very blog that truly opened my eyes . Please know you are making a difference. Thank you for your service as an RN one of the most challenging , rewarding and heart wrenching jobs. It takes more than a special person as well as education to be an ICU RN . Much respect. Lastly I am so sorry for the hurtful words of the apartment living ( off grid of course ) dweller . It makes my stomach churn . The voilitity of her words is not something I will soon forget . With her 6 degrees and 200,000 grand a year , mayo clinic job , superiority and better educated kids then I will ever have well ……… That perpetual child just lost The Ns some very longtime supporters. I didn’t think one iota that Mrs. N could possibly look worse than she already does and then Naomi cows along . Opps until Naomi “comes” along . Karma ….. Just karma that is all . I would love to see a slew of ads for a scholarship and/or charity set up in your darling sons honor . Nothing would make me happier , except maybe the day CPS and the sheriffs department return for the Naugler kids .


  18. Someone made a comment on the BLH page about how they thought this family was living the “American” dream and doing it with grace…Is living the “American” dream going to the bathroom in a bucket? living the “American” dream throwing around the “F” bomb?.is living the “American” dream insulting a parent(s) who has lost a child?…I must live in a different “America”…


  19. Nittany (NK), you cannot write me via the blog and use a fake email address and expect a private answer. So here’s the answer publicly. This is the message I sent you.


    Nittany, you specifically wrote me demanding that I remove everything
    you’d ever posted and threatening me if I didn’t comply.

    I did exactly what you asked me to do and in addition made sure that you
    wasted no more of my time.

    I have no idea what your problem is. I am going to be kind and assume that
    you have substance abuse issues and post while either high or drunk, but I
    assure you that you cannot come on my blog and threaten to kill people.

    I also do not need to have people on there making up wild stories that are
    totally unsubstantiated and making irrational claims about the Nauglers.
    What they have really done and what they are actually doing is enough. We
    do not need outlandish, insane conspiracy theories.

    That’s why the ban. You actually demanded it.

    I am going to lift it, but I swear that if you make one single threat or
    if you start in with shit about aliens or if I think you’re drunk while
    writing, you will be history yet again, and there will be no third chance.
    I am too busy to fiddle with crazy people.



  20. In fact, Joe is violent and Nicole is the one who told us so. Remember when she posted the story about Alex?

    “January 11, 2013
    The Story of Alex

    The story of Alex: from my point of view.”

    ” In November 1995 Alex was born.”
    “Joe agreed and sent Alex on a plane to New Hampshire. That was August 2001. We never saw him again…” (5 pushing 6 years of age)
    “oe’s mother, brother, uncle, grandmother,cousin all got on the stand and told of horrible stories of abuse. All the ways Alex was mis-treated (sic).”
    ” He became a very angry man.”
    “Joe was starting to become the man they accused him of (being).”

    So Nicole herself admits that Joe is abusive. All the more reason for people to clutch their wallets a little tighter when Joe or Nicole are in the vicinity. Plus turning off the valves to their outside taps.


  21. Dear Mandated Reporter:
    Thanks for your thoughts. I’d like to echo one that struck me.

    Thank you Sally Davis, not only for this blog, but for your years of being a nurse. In dealing with both my parents’ illnesses as well as my own husband’s, I came to practically revere nurses. I spent weeks and weeks in hospitals, spending the nights aside my loved ones and saw first hand the dedication, compassion, knowledge that it takes to be a nurse. You and your colleagues were/are on the front lines of saving lives. I would see doctors hurriedly make their rounds, staying but 5 minutes in a patient’s room before rushing to the next one. 5 minutes to your 12 hours thinking on your feet, juggling the needs of very sick people. And to be an ICU nurse, it has got to be one of the emotionally hardest jobs.

    So =on behalf my family members and others whose lives you saved, thank you.
    To those of you who belittle the work of a nurse: I hope one days find herself unpleasantly bedridden, unable to speak, and on the receiving end of a Foley catheter.


  22. Very nicely put, nurses have one of the hardest jobs. 2 of my sisters became cna’s right after graduation they started classes and have loved every second of their nursimg career. While nursing seems to be a very rewarding job as I saw my sisters come to love many a patient both working assisted facilities, at times for elderly and other times men & women around their own age who were unable to care for themselves due to illness or injury. I can remember sitting up with them longs nights an them telling how amazimg their patients were, of then there were the annoying & obnoxious ones but my sibling never faltered on their job they got up each day with renewed strength and love and went back in there and took on those same patients & their family members and showed them as much love as humanly possible to them. I can also remember the nights/days of hearing of some of their favorite patients passing and them hurting but also wishing they were the ones on duty so they could of been there, so they could said goodbye, had closure. I thank nurses everywhere, nurses often go unthanked, unnoticed, disrespected and at the same time in ways they have the most rewarding job there is. Okay sorry for the book.


  23. One of my first traumatic experiences very early in my career was a 5 year old boy . His mom spoke no English that boy died within 2 mins upon arrival, in my arms . I tried relentlessly to save him . This has been many many years ago . I still can see that beautiful boys face . We later learned it was meningitis. Some patients stay with you for a life time . I changed careers after 20 years but u do miss some aspects of patient care. I don’t miss working holidays , weekends away from my kids .


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