Annoyed

In March of 2006, a young American soldier was killed in Iraq.  His name was Matthew Snyder.

His family, including his father, Albert Snyder, attended his funeral in Maryland a week or so later.  Also in the area were picketers from the infamous Westboro Baptist Church.

godhatesfags

picketing

In addition, Westboro put up at least one page on their website where they said that Matthew went to hell and that his parents (who are Roman Catholic) had raised him that way and it was basically their fault. [The page they put up apparently no longer exists, but I am linking to a copy of the text provided by Westboro.]

Albert Snyder sued them.

snydervphelps

And Albert won.  He won big.  He won millions. They argued around about it for a bit and it finally came to $5 million.  Wow.  He won.

Briefly.

Westboro appealed the decision and the higher court reversed it.  Not only that, but Snyder was ordered to pay Westboro’s court costs, amounting to more than $15,000.

I remember all this well, because I was intrigued by the case.  There was outrage across the nation. Bill O’Reilly came rampaging onto the scene and offered to pay the court costs for Snyder.  And it was appealed again, to the US Supreme Court.

Like nearly everyone else in the nation, I simply couldn’t understand this ruling.  Was it, as so many claimed, a “liberal activist court” that reversed this decision?  And if so, why in the world would they? Why would a “liberal” court think what Westboro does is okay?  Why wouldn’t the courts smack those horrible Westboro people down and put a stop to what they do?

I wanted to know.

So I read the decision.

It’s lengthy, so I’ll give you the condensed version.

There were basically two different complaints made by Mr. Snyder.

The first involved “real life,” the picketing at the funeral.

Shouldn’t that be illegal?  Mr. Snyder was devastated, he said, when he saw news coverage on the television about the picketing of the funeral.

Wait. He saw it on the television?

But they were picketing the funeral, weren’t they?

It turns out that Westboro’s picketers, who had complied to the letter with every ordinance that the city had regarding such activities, could not be seen by people coming and going from the church.  Mr. Snyder didn’t even know they were there until he saw the news coverage later.

So Westboro had totally complied with the law, and Snyder didn’t even know about it until it was all over.

The second issue involved the page on the Westboro site.

The page in question had a little sermonette on it, complete with a long Bible passage, and this:

Twenty years ago, little Matthew Snyder came into the world.  He had a calling, he had a vital roll in these last of the last days.  God created him and loaned/entrusted him to Albert and Julie Snyder.  He required a standard of him when he delivered the lad to them to teach him among others things to fear god and to keep his commandments.  God expected them to GIVE THAT CHILD BACK in thanksgiving to him for the blessings of the opportunity and privilege they received from their God, to raise that child.

There’s a few more Bible verses and then:

God blessed you Mr. and Mrs. Snyder with a resource and his name was Matthew.  He was an arrow in your quiver!  In thanks to God for the comfort the child could bring you, you had a DUTY to prepare that child to serve the LORD his GOD – PERIOD!  You did just THE OPPOSITE – you raised him for the devil.  You taught him that God was a liar.

And then some more preachy stuff and:

Albert and Julie RIPPED that body apart and taught Matthew to defy his Creator, to divorce, and to commit adultery.  They taught him how to support the largest pedophile machine in the history of the entire world, the Roman Catholic monstrosity.  Every dime they gave the Roman Catholic monster they condemned their own souls.  They also taught him to be an idolater.

Bad, huh?  There’s more, but that’s the main stuff, the worst stuff. And it’s pretty awful. I will grant you that.  I’ve read something similar written about me and my husband and our son.  Wonder where I read that?

But you know what the court said about all that?

Their opinion was that it was quite obviously opinion.  Nobody at Westboro Baptist Church knew Matthew Snyder or his parents, nor did they claim to.  The information on that page was all obtained from public sources.  Any reasonable person reading that would understand that whoever wrote it was just engaging in a religious rant.

For instance: they say “you raised him for the devil.”  Well, there is no evidence whatever that such a being even exists, so how can that be any sort of statement of fact?

But Albert Snyder claimed that this hurt him horribly.  I get that. I know how it feels, frankly, to read something cruel like that about your son for whom you grieve.

However, in order to read it, Albert Snyder had to use Google.

Read that again.

He had to use Google.

Westboro Baptist Church did not email that to him. They didn’t print it out and send it to him by certified mail.  They just put it on their web site.

Albert Snyder didn’t have to go to their web site.

When the case was appealed to the US Supreme Court, the justices only ruled on the first issue, the one about the picketing. They found in Westboro’s favor by 8:1 (which is considerable).  In other words, the liberals on the Court and the conservatives on the Court pretty much saw this the same way.

They didn’t offer an opinion about the online stuff, but when they do that, it simply means that the opinion of the lower court (the appeals court) stands.

And that leads me right here.

annoyed

She has cherry-picked some language from the Kentucky statute on harassment, located here.  She is flinging this about today as though it’s meaningful.

Nicole and Joe are really fond of citing various laws and statutes and Constitutional amendments and declaring that they “know their rights.”

But there is a problem here. What she’s saying is that if somebody repeatedly does something that “seriously annoys” me, I can sue them for harassment.

Want me to make a list of all the people who have “seriously annoyed” me in the last week?

How about the woman who was in Aldi on Wednesday?  She was ahead of me in the check out lane and got into a conversation with the woman ahead of her and simply would not shut up. She chattered and talked and then tried to get the checker involved in the discussion and seriously annoyed me.

And when I finally got to the checker and was delighted that Chatterbox was done, to my dismay and extreme annoyance, Chatterbox was still talking and blocking my cart.  I had to interrupt her with “Excuse me, ma’am” to get her to move out of the way, which she did without ever missing a word.

And finally, when I got to the counter to bag my groceries, Chatterbox was in my way yet again, still talking.

I am telling you, I was seriously annoyed and she did it repeatedly.

Should I sue her?

Nicole insisted, in her silly little “cease and desist letter” that I was harassing her.

But you see, I have never once sent Nicole anything.  No crappy comments made on her blog under an assumed name.  No certified mail. No going to her Facebook pages and commenting to get her into an argument.  Nothing. In order to even find this blog, Nicole would have to voluntarily visit my personal Facebook page. Or voluntarily visit the Facebook page that advertises this blog. Or use Google.

Just like Mr. Snyder did with Westboro Baptist Church.

This is not about whether she likes what I say or what I write about. I don’t like Westboro Baptist Church’s methods or their message. I find them abhorrent.  I assume Nicole views me similarly.

Her rights are not the only ones under consideration here.

Mine are as well.

 

 

70 thoughts on “Annoyed”

  1. Or when you go to someone’s business page, search through ALL of their pictures, find one that you think looks bad ( be it that person’s work or not) then post it in one of your fake ass pages with some cute remark about the groomer being drunk. I was alerted to you cute little post by fb, otherwise I would have never known you were stalking and sharing my pictures. But, then you had to claim your were the victim, of course.
    You do this over and over, I’m not special you do this to every and anyone who you don’t like. I have it all saved too.
    Fuck you nicole

  2. You and Nicole are on each other’s shovel lists. A shovel list is a list of people or things that annoy you so much you want to hit them with a shovel. For example mine includes – people who sniffle and don’t blow their noses, Steven A Smith, over ripe fruit, The Nationwide insurance jingle 🙂

  3. I find it quiet comical that she cries harassment, when it’s her tubby hubby that’s up for those charges. Again.

    You know, the fact she posted on her NCN page “The boy who cried wolf” and still cries wolf, leads me to believe she does not understand the moral of that story…

  4. Nicole and Joe’s fundamental disconnect with reality is that are not exempt from laws or societal expectations. They are phenomenally arrogant and selfish and do whatever they please. Their brazenness and hostile, aggressive approaches to everything and everyone is a fairly successful shock tactic. I think they have alienated every profitable person who could have pitied them and given them anything so they just go straight for aggression. It works reasonably often. It is very upsetting to Joe and Nicole when they fail to cause shock, intimidation and capitulation.

    I have never commented on any of Nicole’s web-presences because I tend to think it’s not worth it to mud wrestle with a pig–both get dirty and the pig loves it. But she cannot merrily go on abusing the trust of honest people and abusing them in general when she and Joe don’t get what they want, either.

    I also do not comment on Nicole’s various accounts and platforms because of her past and continuing efforts of aggressively seeking out her detractors, going to their sites, accounts, seeking out their places of employment, calling employers, seeking out relatives living and dead and friends of their targeted detractors. To qualify as a detractor you have to do nothing more severe than suggest she do things differently. This blog is run by a solid and honest author and administrator who allows me to have a handle that protects my identity from Joe, Nicole, and her little cyberhorde of cyber-harassers. I am beyond sorry for the pestilential affliction of Nicole and Joe reaching directly into homes, families, and work places to cause unholy suffering and distress. Whether it meets the legal definition of harassment I don’t know. I yield to a qualified JD to determine that. But any reasonable person receiving that kind of treatment in that manner would certainly consider him or herself harassed.

  5. If Joe goes for a trial, hahaha, instead of begging for another plea deal Nicole won’t have to miss much work. There will be no excuse for her to need to be at the courthouse, but for her moment on the witness stand. Since she was there when it happened, I have little doubt that she will be called as a witness by one side or the other. Witnesses are only allowed in during their own testimony.

    All the other witnesses will testify and Nicole won’t know what they’re saying. Joe “Mr. I’ll be right back” will have to testify, and even more fun be cross examined, all by his lonesome with no help or direction from the Blessed boss lady. He will have to sit in the defendant’s chair with no one but himself (unless they find a lawyer to defend him). Nicole won’t know what is transpiring in that courtroom. That in itself will, most probably, drive her to distraction. She will have to wait to read all about it on this blog with everyone else.

    Sometimes life is full of small pleasures.

  6. Heck even kindergarten teachers wouldn’t even consider that harassment! She purposely seeks out the negativity, bringing up things from the past and calling attention to the things that are still not up to par. Even the new people are questioning why things are still an issue years later and why she is constantly having issues. She almost never posts anything positive, besides trivial things, nothing about real life with kids and a business.

    Westboro also posted a page online about a fallen soldier from my town. It was a horrible time as his widow was very young (22 I think?) and 6 months pregnant with their 2nd son… Thankfully there were no actual picketers, just miles of people lining the funeral route to pay respect. The issue of free speech got brought up here when the KKK left flyers on peoples doorsteps in the middle of the night. Many people were obviously outraged and posted on the local FB pages that whoever left them should be arrested and the police did take the complaints seriously. But then someone brought up the point that no one would be complaining if it had been church flyers distributed around town. There was nothing in the flyers that was illegal or threatening, so really the only “problem” was littering. I don’t think the person was actually involved with them, just making the point that in a town where people are constantly handing out Bible pamphlets, youth group and VBS flyers that really it wasn’t any different. In the small Kentucky county where I grew up the KKK would stand on the court square (you know you’re in the South! lol) in full regalia and hand out flyers. It was perfectly legal, even if it freaked the majority of us out. Which reminds me, just the other day I saw a license plate that said Grand Wizard…I don’t think they were referring to Oz.

  7. WBC’s actions shouldn’t be legal considering they do what they do intending to hurt people. If an adult behaves that way to a child, it’s abuse, and in some states, is actionable. WBC tries to incite grieving people. They do what they can to further shatter the very core of people who are already in a million pieces.

    What you do is report and comment in a news forumish manner on their actual actions and words that can be proven, encourage people to take with a grain of salt what can’t be proven publicly, even if you say it, and discourage people from harming the Nauglers. You aren’t accusing them of raising their kids for Satan, calling their kids “fag” who “deserve to burn in hell,” and if one of their kids died as the result of a crime or an unavoidable accident (as opposed to one they could have prevented, but didn’t bother), you’d probably defend them to the core.

    Now Nicole should take a look at her own actions. She’s made up shit about you and your family for the sole purpose of hurting you. The stuff she’s said is so false that it’s clear she fabricated instead of just misunderstood or spoke in error (your son’s age can be chalked up to error, claiming he was an abused druggie whose head only she could get into and understand is a blatant lie). I’m pretty sure you’d have a viable libel case in my state based on the severity of her lies.

    She also needs to look at what she’s done to Viv. I’m finding it hard not to go after Nicole’s business when she cared fuck-all for another mom’s means of supporting her own family. She fucked over another family and drove under their own support while whining and bitching that no one should try to damage her business. If being a horrid bitch and shoving Viv under is good enough treatment, then it should be good enough for Nicole. (I hope the landlord nixes her lease.)

  8. For people who are so fond of the second amendment, one would think the Naugs would be better-versed on the one that precedes it.

    But then, from what I’ve seen of Nicole’s writing and as has been pointed out here many times, it would appear that she may be laboring under the misapprehension that constitutional rights are hers and hers alone.

  9. WBC’s actions shouldn’t be legal considering they do what they do intending to hurt people.

    Kaylee, the entire Supreme Court (less one justice) of the United States totally disagrees with you. Eight justices (including one who is now dead). The family of that soldier couldn’t even see the picketers. What part of that is hard to understand?

    I’m pretty sure you’d have a viable libel case in my state based on the severity of her lies.

    I suspect not. It was clearly opinion based on nothing at all. There is no reason for anyone to supposed she has any inside knowledge about anything at all to do with my life. Besides, I don’t want a used garden shed.

    And please, please watch it with the business stuff.

  10. In order for Nicole to sue you, she’d need…

    1. A lawyer who would take the case for free. Not gonna happen.
    2. The ability to prove you, personally, have monetarily damaged her. (you haven’t)
    3. Follow Through.
    4. A valid case.
    5. Brains enough to study court protocol and properly represent herself.
    6. A more solid compelling case than a man whose son’s funeral was hijacked by abusive loons.

    She has none of these things.

    While I’m quite sure this site annoys the living hell out of Nicole, if she didn’t seek it out to read it every damned day, she wouldn’t have any opportunity to be offended by it. She really is her #ownworstenemy No one’s forcing her to come here and read it. I daresay she enjoys negative attention. What other explanation could there be?

    When a judge is faced with a harassment/abuse type case, one of the things he/she puts a lot of stock in….is the previous litigation history of the parties involved.

    Also, very honestly, when a judge is dealing with a woman claiming “internet harassment” who HERSELF posts reams of anti-law enforcement, anti-government incendiary rhetoric…..she’s pretty much going to get laughed out of court from the onset.

    Nicole is a joke. She is completely blind to her own hypocrisy.

    You’ve just gotta shake your head and hope her brain grows someday.

  11. Great article, Sally!

    If only it were published elsewhere, anonymously – perhaps on NaturalNews – the right people would read it and believe it.

  12. I sometimes wonder if begging under false pretenses isn’t a form of white-collar crime. Hear me out! Nicole is selling the family image of wholesomeness and persecuted because “muh beliefs” and “statists” desperately want land that has been well-trashed but send monies – now! Support this family of hard-working adorable children and their eccentric parents. One of whom is the only breadwinner and the other who (chortles) educates the children at home. They’re not beloved by (pick a community) because they dare to defy social order and he is the stay-at-home parent.

    I think she learned something from the Silverado S&L crisis (1988 which wiped out S&L’s – pretty much), Enron/Kenneth Lay (2001/2002), even Bernie Madoff (2009). There are people who are in jail for lying to others and convincing them to part with their cash.

    I know, I know – she’s being donated or gifted money. Money that isn’t taxable because it is a gift. Nevertheless, it pisses me off. It would please me greatly if Joe were finally nabbed for his behavior and if Nicole was audited by the state and the feds and found herself paying huge penalties. Plus some jail time.

    They’re just con artists with a wi-fi connection. Small time but with big dreams! They landed quite a haul of money a few years ago. I suspect most of it was from those “statist slaves” who had already paid taxes on their earnings who then sent some portion to Joe and Nicole, mistakenly thinking it would help this plucky family regain their children, build a cabin, get a real rain catchment system set up, etc.

  13. Westboro Baptist is banned from entering my country. We also have different hate speech laws than the US. It’s interesting to me to see the differences in the many, often subtle ways Canada and the U.S differ in both speech and gun laws. In the US they seem to be more often treated as black-and-white issues — you are either for or against.

  14. What WBC did was deplorable but well within there rights, what should have happened was they quietly were given a beatdown. As for her blog, its apparentshe hates anything to do with govt. I am afraid were going to see a repeat of ruby ridge someday, those kids, thosepoor kids raised in a enviroment of hate, it will rub off

  15. They’re just con artists with a wi-fi connection.

    GoFundMe is simply online begging. It’s just a tin cup made to look more respectable. I never, ever donate to anything on GoFundMe.

  16. This site might not serve a “legitimate purpose” in Nicole’s mind, but it certainly does in mine.

    Personally, I think exposing the other side of the story untold by people who pimp their kids and beg donations is an extremely legitimate public service.

    I think discussing child abuse and neglect is legitimate. Trying to prevent it is legitimate.

    I think having a communal place for strangers to come together and share their stories of dealing with these people’s over the top and threatening behavior is extremely legitimate.

  17. “legitimate purpose”

    The exercise of free speech is a “legitimate purpose” in and of itself.

    It can only be “annoying” if I were to repeatedly email her, or repeatedly try to contact her in some other way. I have never done that a single time, although she has done it to me.

  18. The show goes on,it is called THE WAISTED SPERM OF THE NAUGLERS. Unless C P S steps in this debacle will not end.Being Nicole was so stellar in putting your address out to the internet I will be sending you a check for either the purpose of furthering this blog or sending the money(233 Sheriff Ranch PO box 57 Silbertsville KY 42O44) JUST A LITTLE REMINDER FOR THOSE OF YOU WITH A LITTLE EXTA CASH.
    Sally, thank you so very much for all the time & energy you have given,you are truly appreciated.

  19. By Nicole’s definition of harassment, I could say that she is guilty of harassing ME, daily. Her posts on her NCN page are so freaking annoying. I think she is intentionally trying to be annoying, hence she is harassing me!!

  20. I couldn’t agree more about donating to any Gofundme accounts. I was a single mom for 6 years before I met my husband. My oldest daughter’s bio dad never never paid one cent of child support. My oldest will be 18 in March. He had another daughter who is a few years younger and he set up a GFM account for this daughter to raise money for her to go to some school event in NYC. Maybe he shouldn’t have had any kids if he needs to beg for money to support his kid. He is a POS just like the Nauglers. I would never beg for money and I most certainly won’t give my hard earned money away to anyone that has the ability to make money for themselves. Maybe I am going about life the wrong way. It sure would be easier to set up a GFM account and give a sob story, than it is to actually work for it.

  21. I will be sending you a check for either the purpose of furthering this blog or sending the money(233 Sheriff Ranch PO box 57 Silbertsville KY 42O44)

    By all means, donate to the Ranch, please. Not to me. I’m good.

  22. It sure would be easier to set up a GFM account and give a sob story, than it is to actually work for it.

    There are truly good causes out there and a very good place for charity, but it’s a good idea also to be a little skeptical and do some due diligence before donating. Even after trying really hard to be careful, I’ve still been had a time or two. That’s why old people get cranky and stingy. We’ve seen it all before and we’re sort of sick of it. 🙂

  23. My family did a GFM last year. Long story short, my sister adopted a kitten from the county animal shelter that turned out needed super expensive surgery due to dick head breaders causing the poor kitty to have breathing issues. This was just before our mom passed so all of our liquid assets were focused on her care so coming up with the price of a cheap used car on our own just wasn’t possible then. Our “primary” vet suggested GFM and even advertised the link for us. Once the local cat rescue group I have adopted from heard about it, we had the full amount in less than 24 hours.

    Kitty’s surgery was successful and now she’s a local social media celebrity. My sister felt obligated to show kitty’s recovery so people could see where their money went and people are still following.

    tl;dr GFM is virtual begging, but it has helped my family during an emergency.

  24. tl;dr GFM is virtual begging, but it has helped my family during an emergency.

    I know of somebody else who used GFM sort of like that. It was a good way to raise money from people who had an interest in the situation and make it convenient for them to donate (don’t have to worry about cash or credit cards, etc). In the case I knew about, nobody was targeted except people who actually knew the family involved. They, too, raised the money they needed in a matter of hours.

    But most of the time it’s a whole lot of bullshit.

  25. Sally, that something being legal doesn’t mean it should be legal. What WBC does SHOULD BE illegal. AKA shouldn’t be legal. A lot of shit that should be illegal is legal, and that’s wrong. The Naugs forcing the kids to sleep like puppies, eat from expired cans, and depriving them of an education all also shouldn’t be legal, yet those things are legally fine. It’s the same with with WBC. Just because some idiots see it as the right of those who are causing harm doesn’t mean that it should be legal.

    What’s so hard to understand about that?

    You know what else is legal? Gay conversion therapy. Kicking your kids out for being gay. Not giving them copies of their own birth certificates so they can get ID that they’d need to get copies of their birth certificates.

    As time goes on, some things that were legal end up outlawed because judges wake up and realize certain things never should have been legal in the first place. Actively trying to cause harm is one of those things that needs to be outlawed.

  26. “I know, I know – she’s being donated or gifted money. Money that isn’t taxable because it is a gift.”

    If a donation or gift is solicited under false pretenses, it’s a crime. Here are the first four hits I got for “fake cancer donations”:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/okla-mom-admits-faking-daughter-cancer-donation-scam-article-1.2752342
    http://www.wdrb.com/story/33299278/indiana-woman-arrested-after-police-say-she-faked-cancer-solicited-donations
    http://valdostatoday.com/2016/06/mandy-strong-arrested-for-faking-cancer-for-donations/
    http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Mandy-Strong-arrested-for-faking-cancer-for-donations-306201071.html

    As far as GoFundMe, I don’t think all people misuse it just because some do. Yeah, it’s begging, but it’s not all the sort that should be looked down on. Who is really going to look down on the GFM set up to help take care of four kids whose parents were killed on Halloween? That case was in the news because of what the cops did to prevent destroying the children’s fun holiday for the rest of their lives: http://whdh.com/news/georgia-police-officer-takes-kids-trick-or-treating-after-kids-parents-die/ (He waited to tell them, and instead did everything he could to give them a great night.) People use it to raise funds for medical care and emergencies or because they just don’t have the money for the rest of their college books. A few bad eggs aren’t going to make me cynical enough to think the entire idea can fuck off. People like the Nauglers who lie, or this one woman I knew who raised over $20k to write a book about her hobby (Social Security found out and considered it to be income–why she needed $20k to write a book when she was already “minorly disabled” in her own words and not working is anyone’s guess, but it backfired on her anyway), or this one I know who just finished raising $15k to travel to Europe to go write a book, shouldn’t make us turn our noses up at people who need help covering travel expenses to help a parent take a kid halfway across the country to see a new oncologist, or roll our eyes are someone whose dog needs surgery to not die, or to tell that college kid to quit for the semester if he can’t come up with the remaining $225 he needs to get the required text that he had to have in hand by the end of the first week. Tossing the decent people who need help for things they didn’t cause in with the liars and entitled morons is wrong. Don’t help if you don’t feel inclined, but don’t look down on those people as “beggars.” Really, asking for help isn’t always begging. Most people really do try to help themselves too, and someone asking for help for a specific thing is no more an automatic beggar than that single mom who applies for food stamps.

  27. I’ve donated once to GFM. It was for a friend and some medical bills. We told her to set it up so we could all easily donate from around the country. Same situation, the money was raised in a few hours. None of us felt duped because we knew what the money was for and we didn’t share it outside of our circle. It was really just a simple way to donate. But yeah most of the time I am very skeptical of online money raising requests.

  28. When I saw Nicole’s ever-so-subtle dropping of her mailing address, it occurred to me that I might want to make a donation.

    And I damned near did. Had my finger hovering over the button to check out, when I decided to pull the plug.

    Was going to have Amazon drop ship her a case of motherfucking condoms. (literally… mother fucking)

    But knowing the Naugs, they’d probably re-purpose them as birthday balloons, or put them over their shoes to keep the mud out of the holes, or some other socially oblivious tacky purpose.

    God knows we could never convince Joe to put one on his penis to prevent Nauglette #12, even though Nicole’s ovaries are getting long in the tooth and their odds of a medically fragile baby tick up with each unprotected screw. (Then again, maybe a medically neglected special needs baby would cause the state to FINALLY do something on behalf of the other kids?)

    Ultimately, I decided against it. As much as I’d like to see some sensible choices made….this is, after all, the Naugs we’re talking about.

    Fun to dream about a world with no additional mouths they can’t feed….but it’s sort of like the horse….you know they’ve got to live that nightmare to have a clue. God knows you can’t tell them anything.

    Wonder how long until Nicole announces the next pregnancy?

  29. @Sally – “GoFundMe is simply online begging. It’s just a tin cup made to look more respectable. I never, ever donate to anything on GoFundMe.”
    I am grown up enough to admit that this broad brush pissed me off, disappointed me and surprised me coming from you. I have chewed on it all day.
    I will agree that I have seen some deplorable reasons for GoFundMe and other online fundraising sites. And it is equally deplorable that people who are grifters, lazy and con artists have a new way to separate good-hearted, decent people from their money. However, not all online fundraisers are bad and it’s important for people to do their research.
    Why I am feeling like this? Well, in October 2014, I was diagnosed with a life-threatening pulmonary disease. I have never smoke or done drugs beyond weed (I use marijuana infused honey to help my pain, which I prefer to opiods). I get up and go to work almost every day, unless my oxygen sats are in the low 80s which is very hard on the heart and the brain.
    I have good health benefits through my work but still have a 20% co-pay. That means we are tens of thousands of dollars in a debt we can never hope to pay off. I volunteer in my community. I love the kids I work with. Nicole, Joe and their socks have mocked my illness. A most recent one was developing a death pool and casting ballots. Whatever.
    As you know Sally, living in Alaska can limit one medically when a rare illness pops up. I need out of State help. We had no real way to get me to the Mayo clinic. I held garage sales. I sold things. Still not enough. So I set up an online fundraiser and pretty much met my goal. Co-workers and students at my school also set up a couple of fundraisers. I was able to travel for treatment and surgery. I am blessed.
    The difference between me and the Nauglers is that I can account for every penny. I stayed in hotels that had kitchens because cooking for myself was way cheaper. I made use of my union discounts for flights and car rentals. I even had a FB friend volunteer to come and care for me after my surgeries which meant I could be released from the hospital earlier. I honored the people who cared enough to part with their hard-earned dollars.
    Right now I am 3 months past my expiration date and feeling quite well…comparatively. Not all online fundraisers are like Nicole and Joe’s. It pisses me off that these two all round horrible people make it difficult for other good people.

  30. Someone should start a GFM so the supporters have a way to get to the shitstead.

    A lovely holiday on 20 some odd blessed acres!

  31. I am grown up enough to admit that this broad brush pissed me off, disappointed me and surprised me coming from you.

    Your story, Peggy, is very sad. I am sorry this happened to you in a first-world country. What we should have, of course, is single payer health care like nearly every other first-world nation does.

    However, what you did was still online begging. There is no other way to describe it. It’s fine that you apparently did it right and used the money for its intended purpose, however, that doesn’t change the character of it.

    Put yourself in my place and that of every other person who has watched the debacle that is the Shitstead. Go here and read a bit. For every worthy cause that is on GoFundMe there’s a fraud. There is no way in hell for me to tell the difference if I do not personally know the people involved. And if I personally know the people involved, I simply donate directly to them and skip making money for GoFundMe.

    So I stand by my comments, and I am glad you are doing well.

  32. Just because some idiots see it

    The problem, Kaylee, is that the “idiots” you are obliquely referring to, in the case of Westboro, are the justices of the Supreme Court of the US. And not just a few of them. All but one of them. When they all agree like that, as I’ve said, I tend to pay attention.

    Everything else you mentioned involves situations that have never been addressed by the higher courts.

  33. they just don’t have the money for the rest of their college books.

    Oh, yeah. Right. Like I’m going to donate to a complete stranger who “doesn’t have the money for the rest of [his] college books.”

    The problem, as I’ve said, with GFM is that there is no way on earth to distinguish the “liars and entitle morons” from those who you consider to be legit. Please explain to me how you know.

  34. Maybe one of those who aren’t on Nicole’s banned list can provide her with this information. Or her kid. Her kid no doubt cares about the horse’s well-being. I doubt Nicole gives a flying

    It’s cold and windy here today. It’s definitely cold where Beauty is hanging out. Here’s something for her owner to consider doing in addition to feeding her a good quality hay:

    “All things considered, using small hole slow feeding nets to prolong eating times for your hay and adding beet pulp mixed with wheat bran at 1 lb beet pulp and 1/4 lb wheat bran (2 lbs of the mixture = 5 lbs of hay) is a better choice (than straw – note added by Tekla). Protein and minerals are at good levels, major minerals balanced. The beet pulp mixture will also soak up at least 4 times its dry weight in water, making a large and very satisfying meal.

    Eleanor Kellon, VMD”

    You still can’t skimp on good hay and you still really need to have a fecal done on that mare – but if you can make this mixture up WITH WARM WATER and provide it to her, along with a windbreak, it won’t hurt her.

  35. GFM takes a portion of the money. If I know who is asking for the money and the purpose, I give it to them directly. I don’t WANT GFM to get a portion of it – or anyone else for that matter.

    “A few bad eggs aren’t going to make me cynical enough to think the entire idea can fuck off.”

    That’s fine. I disagree. GFM also doesn’t have sufficient staff to investigate the reports thoroughly so by the time they do determine someone is committing fraud, the money is often already in their pockets and they’ve made like smoke. Hell, neither does the IRS which is why they depend upon people filing complaints about shady charities. Not that it guarantees they will shut them down in a timely manner. AC4H, for example.

    I’m glad you’re doing better, Peggy and it stinks that you have many co-pays that add up to ridiculous numbers for treatment. Or worse – when you have to kick in a great deal more than you thought you would when you receive a diagnosis and treatment plan. It’s not like anyone gets up one morning and says, “Hey – you know what I fancy today? A car accident and a life flight!” Or, “Hmm, I know – how about ovarian cancer to ring in the new year?” They’re covered and some (my) health plans have a catastrophic out-of-pocket limit after which you’re done paying bills but it’s still not cheap. Can you set up a payment plan with your providers? You can spread it out over a few years if necessary. It sounds as though the community rallied around you which is fantastic.

  36. Where ever there is kindness, there is an asshat that will try to exploit it. Online, offline, anywhere. Lord knows King and Queen Asshat have exploited kindness everywhere they can reach.

    On kitty’s GFM, we did everything we could to prove kitty needed the surgery. We listed the primary vet’s info so people could confirm and had a pic of the vet holding kitty in front of our GFM flyer in his office. Then my sister followed up by showing kitty’s improvement on social media. Sadly, all could be faked by a determined conartist. We originally intended it just to be shared as an easy resource gathering point for friends and family, but a woman from the cat rescue group is friends with me on Facebook and she shared it.

    The pastor who runs the food bank my family volunteers with is huge on direct giving both through the charity and personally. From deodorant to utility bills, if you need it, he’ll make sure you have it directly. I still remember him sending me to the store to buy about $150 worth of tampons and pads when the stocks were low.

  37. I get annoyed when I see a GFM set up to cover adoption fees, or an expensive fertilization procedure, etc. If you can’t afford those costs, how will you afford the ongoing expenses of raising that adopted child (or worse, if you end up having a multiple birth and suddenly have 3, 4 or more babies at once)? GFM is an online fundraiser. When small groups who know each other are involved, it’s the same to me as passing the hat at your local knitting group, or church. I would not donate to anyone I didn’t know. I have limited spare money to give others. It’s important to me that what little I can give, does the most good.

  38. Schools and the government give grants and loans to cover the cost of books and tuition. There’s no way I believe someone couldn’t cover the cost of a book especially considering I’m currently attending college and I’ve had all my costs covered by the school/government (until I have to pay back the loans obviously). You can also rent books at an extremely low price if you can’t afford to buy one. If you can’t afford your books, that’s not anyone else’s problem. Maybe I’m just a cynical bitch. Who knows.

  39. Ah, the great GoFundMe debate!

    I think it’s a very useful, and easily abused fund raising tool.

    Like Sally, there are damned few strangers I’d ever donate to using a GoFundMe. Bogus campaigns are extremely common. So are campaigns that make you think to yourself…”Um, we’ve all got issues. This problem is solvable by yourself if you do the work, think ahead next time, and make better choices.”

    In my mind there’s a huge difference between…. “My child was diagnosed with a brain tumor and we’ve exceeded insurance limits, please help us get to St. Jude’s, so we can make it to a consultation about a research trial our child might qualify for.”

    And…. “I didn’t think ahead about how much my college books would cost, bail me out, please.”

    Come on, college books? Seriously? Young healthy people can sell their damned blood plasma all semester and buy college books used. They can sell their collections of childhood crap. Here’s a novel idea…they can get a JOB part time! Baby sit, tutor, shovel snow, mow lawns, walk dogs, take one of hundreds of little jobs available on campus. Work a few hours in the cafeteria three days a week. Clean a few toilets. Learn firsthand WHY it’s so important to finish your education.

    In my mind, if you’re too dumb to think ahead about the cost of the books and prepare for that BEFORE you sign up for class….I don’t think there’s a chance in hell you’ll graduate. Not gonna waste my money on an education that will never be completed because you are clueless.

    I DO think GoFundMes are appropriate for certain causes: Devastating medical issues. Funeral expenses for indigent families. Local community projects that are specific and overseen by a trustworthy committee. Specific goal-oriented campaigns of trustworthy parties you have a vested interested in.

    MOST legitimate charitable causes have documentation, non-profit status, etc. The problem with private GoFundMe campaigns….is that it’s very easy to imitate a legitimate charity (except in the ways that matter….documentation, oversight, accountability)

    Why are GoFundMes a bad idea?

    Creative writers….can get paid a lot for their creative writing.
    Creative photographers….can study what people respond to and provide what looks like documentation of need.

    Take Nicole’s photos, for instance.

    Her children covered in mud, tangled dirty hair and gross nails, babies in dirty clothes and full diapers…all smiling in spite of their misery…..are the face of suffering kids who have nothing, who desperately need your help…and look at the beautiful picture the little girl has drawn and the wood this little toddler is trying to haul into the house, and the pet goats they end up eating. Look, they’re making fences out of sticks, and cooking on bricks! Look at their little buckets with all their worldly possessions. Poor little things! They NEED you so badly…they have nothing, not even a bar of soap, and they’re trying so hard! Hell, if Sally Struthers, herself, were weeping at their fate…you couldn’t be more moved.

    Nicole KNOWS this opens wallets. She knows better than to photograph children covered in shit…but she does it anyway, because she knows people respond to it. It makes even the poorest of fools believe they’re in a better position than she is…and they pull their purses out. (And she depends on the poorest and most idiotic, so she needs to make the photos very graphic)

    I forget which kid, but there’s a photo of one of the children putting a baby chicken against his face with his head all covered in crap. There are baby photos with snot crusts and old food and filthy shirts. There are enough gross nails, greasy heads, black ear wax chunks and bare feet in the dirt to make me itch……but the reality is, a lot of this is purposely done for the sake of her viewing audience, her marks, you know…the idiots she cons.

    Because you’ll note…

    The photos Nicole takes to represent her business are VERY VERY different. The business itself is aesthetically pleasing. The washtubs, tables and fixtures are top of the line and well maintained. The paint, the baseboard, the decor…are all very intentional and tastefully done. The photos of the kids at the business are different, too. The kids look clean, wear grooming aprons, hands are clean, hair is neat, baby is in cute little outfits, diaper isn’t full.

    It’s kind of boggling, isn’t it? That a person who can SEE the detail involved in trimming the hair around a dog’s anus, trimming his fur into an aesthetically pleasing 3D presentation, combing every knot out, grooming his nails to perfection, brushing teeth, and making him smell like a boutique…….cannot see that her kid’s clothes are disgusting rags, or that they needed a bath four days ago, or at the very least, the snot removed and the diaper changed?

    NICOLE KNOWS that her kids look like a third world country in the photos she takes. She knows what her house looks like.

    And she knows how to make money….by making really poor really stupid people…feel better about themselves. It’s a means to an end for her. Her kid’s dignity. Their self respect. At the end of the day, they’re props for profit.

    One thing I have to give Nicole…she has some talent as a photographer. She understands aesthetic and emotional reaction to aesthetic….and she understands how to use this for blatant manipulation.

    If she’d gone to school and applied these skills to marketing, she might have had a very successful career. But since she’s too stubborn and indignant to understand the value of education and the doors it can open for you….this will never be.

    Instead, she’ll be a small-time career con artist who has to live in terrible conditions to maintain her schtick, depending daily on the hope that she doesn’t run out of fools.

    To Nicole’s great relief, there seems to be no shortage of them.

  40. I was a little less annoyed after reading that V will be open for business tomorrow. Seems she found the support she needs to carry on. Good for her for not allowing the Naglers to run her off.

  41. @Sally – we will need to just agree to disagree on that one and of course that is ok. See Nicole, two adults can disagree amiably and no tantrums, cussing or alienation required.

  42. Free speech is one of the fundamental rights we have in this country that I cherish with all my heart. I have studied every Supreme Court case. Probably read most of the lower court and state court cases on it too. It is something uniquely American. You will not find the level of freedom of speech that we enjoy (or suffer) anywhere else in the world. Many Americans take it for granted and have no idea how unique it is. Although there are and will always be people that I consider are abusing it or say things I don’t like, I will defend their right to free speech. I will also utilize my same right to free speech to discuss why I think what they are saying is wrong. Free speech doesn’t mean that the person who says something won’t suffer ramifications for what they have said such as losing their job or being made fun of on the internet. It means that the government will not imprison you because you called the president elect “cheet0h face”, the sitting president a Muslim or declare yourself a voluntaryist.

    Ask any of a number of political prisoners around the world who sit in prison not for acts but for ideas. Ask the young Canadian woman who is now looking at imprisonment in Turkey for making a flippant and illegal comment about Erdogan being “America’s biaytch” on Facebook. I will take free speech any day.

  43. DeNauglified, YES, you make such a great point, the controlled vast contrasts between her home/family image and her business images, pure image management and marketing. She is clever in that regard, however deceitful, and this is what she is apprenticing her kin on also.
    Before we stepped in, my elderly mother would pop money into every “beggar mail” that came in. And with that, the mail increased tremendously. It did make her feel good to give, something she’d been championing all of her life having lived through the Great Depression, but times and deceit just moved faster than she did. I’m sure she would have sent Naugs money at one time too. She now has one charity she supports only and doesn’t manage her mail any longer. WWW doesn’t exist for her, thankfully. I also have a neighbor who does creative writing for “charities” and he has attested to the tremendous and incredible dollar amounts that are amassed from small donations through mass marketing. Nicole once asked for $1.00 donations, using this same ploy I believe.
    Her images are selling, no doubt, it’s just not the kind of life or livelihood that I would want for my children or myself. Unsustainable and dishonest at best, imho. Plus you really need to keep your images “modest”, or the IRS might take a closer look. (Although using S-buckets are overkill, for sure.)
    But all this image marketing seems to come to a dead end with JoJo. No matter, filthy croc donned at the SStead, or after a professional groom in one of the dog baths, he always seems to come across the same way, gross, foul mouthed and unmarketable.
    She needs baby or young child images to sell and her son is accomplishing his role and serving her well in that regard. I’m sure she is very pleased. Hollywood already did a take off on their theme known here as, “The Slum Dog Thousandaires”.

  44. The Naugler’s abused the system with half truths and full out lies.
    It is people like them who are ruining donations for everyone else.
    Peg you used the system correctly and got the help needed through friends and family and community. There is nothing wrong with that. You made sure the money went where intended. You sound like good people.
    I donate directly when I can or through an organization who I know first hand will distribute the money properly.
    Just recently I donated a small amount to a family I know through a Facebook group.
    The husband found out he has brain cancer right before the birth of their baby. Since he is the only breadwinner the wife asked for help with their bills. They live far away so I will never meet them in person.
    They did no receive the amount they asked for. Later she thanked everyone for giving her children a wonderful Christmas.
    I gave for the stated purpose of paying bills such as rent and buying food.
    I do not begrudge the small children a nice Christmas but that is not what they were asking for money for.
    They used the money they received for a completely different reason then stated.
    There lies the rub with GoFundMe.
    There is no accountability where the funds go if the person receiving the funds does not want there to be.
    I read there could possibly be a fraud investigation or the Nauglers about their GoFundMe. I hope this happens.
    They need to held accountabe.
    Sally I stand for the right to free speech. If you ever need a crowd to cheer you on I will be there!

  45. I read there could possibly be a fraud investigation or the Nauglers about their GoFundMe.

    Almost surely impossible at this point.

  46. I just want to put out there that I know someone who has worked in academia. They’ve counseled kids who have fallen on hard times–it’s a sad but real part of the job. Many schools have food banks and vouchers for students to get food. Many also have advocates who will help students in dire straits get housing.

    Textbooks are typically at the school library and if they’re not, students can request instructors to put a copy there for them to use. Students with no means may be able to ask the prof for a free copy of course packets or they may be online for cheaper. Students can also share with others and (illegally, but needs must) scan entire textbooks into computers with enough time and motivation. Or they can photo pages at the library and blow them up on their screens (many even very poor students have some kind of screen, be it a computer, laptop, phone, etc.). I bought many a used, international version that was an edition or two behind of my textbooks.

    My point is, there is a lot of help out there for students and a lot more they can do if they’re just resourceful enough.

    I know a family that started a gfm when their relative was hit with a sudden terminal diagnosis. They were remarkably restrained and did it so people from out of state could share it with their church friends to garner more support. A lot of people came together to help but a lot more gave privately so gfm didn’t get the fees. It raised awareness and brought this family help when they couldn’t cover expenses for her end care.

    But it is too easily abused, I agree. I guess if you have a conscience to begin with, you are less inclined to abuse it than modern-day Thenardiers like the Naugler “parents.”

  47. M Rigatoni, raising a kid is pay-as-you-go. Fertility treatments or adoption costs are a fuckton of money all at once and up front.

    Not Shocked, there are a lot of schools that hold back on grant disbursements until after school has started since they want to try to thwart the students who only enroll in school and apply for grants to get the money and then run. One of my best friends was in this situation, and was lucky enough that I was able to loan her the money to get the books she needed until she got her grant disbursement a couple weeks later. One of her professors added to more texts to the list needed, and she didn’t know until she got to the book store to pick up the books she knew about. That school bookstore allowed the students to run a tab of $150 or $200, but beyond that, they had to have the money. Every time a new semester rolls around, I see a lot of posts on Facebook by people I know who need loans just until they get those disbursements. So while there grants and loans, you don’t always get that money up front. One friend of mine works in that department at one of the colleges here, and she has said one of the hardest parts of her job is when she has to tell students who are supposed to get grants that they have to get the books before they get the money, and if they can’t get the books, they can’t stay in the class, and if they can’t stay in the class, they lose the grants.

    Sally, I look at each campaign and do my best to suss it out. There will always be some scammers who manage to squeeze through, but it takes being particularly cold-hearted to treat everyone asking for help like scamming beggars waiting to happen, and it’s blown my mind that you’re looking down on someone who used GFM because SHE WANTED TO NOT DIE. Instead of looking down on people asking the public for help with legit issues not of their own causing as if they’re polishing their tin cups with your money, look down on the institutions that put people in these positions.

    DeNauglified, you think that most college kids aren’t already working? NEWFLASH for you: Most DO, and they are using that money to do this stupid little thing called paying their living expenses. I’ve seen people sell their most prized possessions to try to pay for books and other school expenses. I think it’s really fucked up to tell people to just go sell plasma. That’s fucking hell on that body, and that’s if you’re approved in the first place. College shouldn’t be so goddamned fucking expensive in the first place. But you’re blaming the students while you enjoyed the privilege of being from a time when college didn’t cost literal blood the way it does today. Some of us are lucky enough that we can afford those things, but many many many students are not, and when the jobs are further and further off all the time, we shouldn’t be telling students in school for degrees they need to get jobs that they should delay things another semester. It would cost us less in the long run to get those students through school now instead of throwing them under a bus and paying food stamps longer.

    Sally, SCOTUS has idiots. I don’t care if they all agree. SCOTUS still has idiots. Those fucking morons decided that business owners can use their religious beliefs to deny workers their own medical decisions. And what now? Well, a judge ruled that doctors can turn away transgender people and women who’ve had abortions as “religious freedom.” If we end up with nine Trumps on SCOTUS, and they decide it’s okay to start shooting people suspected of being illegal immigrants and justify is as rights apply only to citizens, does that make it okay? Fuck no, it doesn’t. Something being legal doesn’t make it right. There was a time when owning black people was legal. And that was upheld in court too.

    I’m not sure how anyone who claims to be anything other than Republican can shit on students and people who are struggling while claiming that those people must just be lazy assholes who aren’t doing all they can to get by. That’s as anti-liberal as you can get.

    Beth, paying bills and keeping food on the table is part of giving kids a good Christmas. Keeping kids warm and safe and fed counts. Did you really want to see them only pay the rent and lights and see those kids deprived of food and a few small toys to feel your money went where you thought it should go? How do you know they didn’t receive money earmarked for buying those kids gifts? Or that they didn’t receive toys directly? You’re begrudging those kids of having a Christmas you clearly don’t think they deserved by calling their parents liars. Why should those kids be seen as undeserving just because their household’s breadwinner has brain cancer? Before looking down your nose at them for not being deprived further when their dad will probably die, ask yourself if they money they got is enough to make you want to swap places with them. If you really feel those little brats got something they shouldn’t have, then file a chargeback with your bank, and see if you can still look yourself in your eyes when you look in the mirror.

  48. Beth wrote, “They did no receive the amount they asked for. Later she thanked everyone for giving her children a wonderful Christmas.
    I gave for the stated purpose of paying bills such as rent and buying food.
    I do not begrudge the small children a nice Christmas but that is not what they were asking for money for.”

    There is another way to look at that if they didn’t state outright that they spent any of the money on the gifts. Due to the donations to cover the cost of rent and buying food, the family was able to enjoy their Christmas together because their parents didn’t have the stress or worry about keeping a roof over their heads or food on the table. After all, they may have bought a few gifts earlier in the year and hid them in the closet/under their bed or had them on layaway or something.

    Which may be far from the truth but it’s what my family always did. We knew where mom hid the presents she would pick up throughout the year. Behind the sofa in the sitting/sewing area. If anyone really had to know what they were going to be given for their birthday or Christmas all we had to do was rummage behind that little sofa. We very rarely did so because we preferred surprises.

  49. Sally, SCOTUS has idiots. I don’t care if they all agree. SCOTUS still has idiots. Those fucking morons decided that business owners can use their religious beliefs to deny workers their own medical decisions. And what now? Well, a judge ruled that doctors can turn away transgender people and women who’ve had abortions as “religious freedom.” If we end up with nine Trumps on SCOTUS, and they decide it’s okay to start shooting people suspected of being illegal immigrants and justify is as rights apply only to citizens, does that make it okay? Fuck no, it doesn’t. Something being legal doesn’t make it right. There was a time when owning black people was legal. And that was upheld in court too.

    Kaylee, you’re misrepresenting what I said. SCOTUS, whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not, is the decider of how the Constitution is interpreted. I didn’t like the decision in Citizens United. I hope that it is overturned at some point. However, it it still the law.

    My point about them all agreeing is that they represent a wide range of viewpoints and when they agree like that, I tend to take a second look and quit falling back on my knee jerk position.

    Their ruling about Westboro guarantees my freedom of speech. It’s a very big deal to me.

    it’s blown my mind that you’re looking down on someone who used GFM because SHE WANTED TO NOT DIE.

    You’re skating on very thin ice, Kaylee. I’m allowing your rant here but I probably won’t allow another one. I never said any such thing. I said that using GFM is basically online begging, and IT IS. That’s not a judgement about the person doing it. It’s simply the truth. There is no way to vet the people who use it. Donate at your own risk.

    Just because people here disagree with you doesn’t mean that you can come here and rant and rave. This blog is publicly-viewed, but it is privately owned. Remember that. This is not your personal little soapbox.

  50. There is another way to look at that if they didn’t state outright that they spent any of the money on the gifts.

    Kaylee, take a look at what Tekla wrote here. See how she presented a different viewpoint when it came to Beth’s comment, without accusing Beth of anything? Read it and learn something. Compare what Tekla said and how she said it with what you said.

  51. N’s latest post says they put the cookstove in storage and bought a used wood stove to heat the cabin. I’m confused. Why put the cookstove in storage? I thought it was in the outdoor kitchen. Does that mean the kitchen that the son worked so hard for is now defunct? Maybe they don’t have enough wood to cook in the kitchen and heat the cabin?

  52. Does that mean the kitchen that the son worked so hard for is now defunct?

    It would be nearly impossible to use that outdoor kitchen when it’s 5 degrees outside. I have no idea why they bought the cookstove in the first place or what “put in storage” means (where).

  53. @Tori: I’m similarly scratching my head over the stove thing. I took a look at the outdoor kitchen video and the I think what they have set up in the outdoor kitchen is their cinder-block “rocket stove” with a very small and rusty oven alonside it. That oven doesn’t match the photo of the white vintage-but-newly-purchased cook stove mentioned in Nicole’s blog (Oct 23 post; same one that has the horse photos). In the October blog post it sounds as if the family already owned a wood stove to heat the cabin but upon purchase of the cook stove opted to use the cook stove to both heat and cook in the cabin during the winter.
    But in the recent FB post she says she put they they had to “put the cook stove in storage but bought a nice gently used wood stove instead.” Why another purchase? What happened to the former wood stove, the one that heated the cabin LAST winter? Did it die? Is the rusty box in the outdoor kitchen all that’s left of it? I don’t know why I even care about sorting this out, but I do – maybe it’s because heating and cooking are pretty key to ones’s survival and this constant replacing of stoves sounds either foolish or desperate.

  54. Is the rusty box in the outdoor kitchen all that’s left of it?

    Yes, I think so.

    And the video of the outdoor kitchen, if I’m not mistaken, was taken before they bought the white cook stove.

    She doesn’t say why they opted not to use the cook stove. We have one, with a nice fire currently in it (same fire that has been burning now for days), and it heats our entire house (1500 square feet, one story). The bedroom and bath at the far end of the house are cooler, of course, than the living room and kitchen where the stove is, but still, it’s the only form of heat we use, and we’ve done so for years. This is our ninth winter with it. I baked a cake in the oven yesterday. The only thing we don’t do on it is fry foods, because we have to get it so hot to do that it’s unbearable.

    That’s the only thing I can think of – that a large cook stove like that would get the garden shed so warm you couldn’t stand it. (Ours would, for sure.)

  55. Kaylee
    As a person who has adopted I can tell you how it works. Expenses are not very much if you adopt through the county. However if one does a private adoption (like we did) or gies through a non government agency the fee and costs do add up to thousands of dollars. Agency adoptions are usually the faster of all avenues. Government and private can take years. In our case we waited 5 years. Private was all we could do because my husband was considered too old and was only in his 40s. With the time it takes waiting couples can be saving up for expenses. Most spend years trying to have a child of their own before turning to adoption so they can save up during that time too. Not once did we ask anyone not even family for a penny to help us with our expenses. And we were far from rich. Hell we were on the lower end of middle class. Sorry but IMO adoption is NOT a vaild excuse to beg for money.

    I am thankful that I was raised if you wanted something you worked for it to get and not expect to have shit handed to you.

    I will never give money via GFM or any other online begging venue to anyone I do not know. Then if I were to give the reason it was being asked for better be damn good.

  56. Tekla kudos to you for your comment! Looking at the other side of the coin is very important.
    I agree with what you said.

  57. Kayleigh I would never ever begrudge a child a good Christmas and I did say the money was also intended for food.
    I sent this family presents for the kids and baby things. I care about them. I have talk to them on the phone.
    The whole point to my post was misconstrued. I had no problem with the family at all.
    I was merely pointing out how GFM is a big issue when it comes to people like the Nauglers and used the one time I have taken part in GFM as an example.
    I appologize for the confusion!

  58. The stove thing irks me. I imagine it was too hot for that small space. When she bought it my first thought was that it was too big for the small space but I was glad the kids would have a place to cook inside. Isn’t it pathetic that I never imagined an adult ever cooking on it? Anyhow the reason it irks me is it’s another example of a lack of foresight from the Naugs. They buy and buy and waste and waste and can never get ahead. And where the hell do they store anything there? Do they have a third shed for storage? Is it thrown in the 3 sided shed? Is it “stored” in the elements to rust like their previous stove. So many questions that will never get answered because she is going on a hiatus. She’s not going to share anything related to the homestead, which is humorous because they don’t have a fucking homestead and there certainly isn’t any homesteading going on.

  59. The stove thing irks me.

    To be totally fair, I would love to have a second wood cook stove in an outdoor kitchen. It would be great for canning in the summertime. I have a sort of aversion to the idea of cooling the house with a/c and then canning in the same area. It seems extremely counterproductive.

    But yeah, there is no “farm” and there is no “homesteading.”

  60. Sally,

    I have a table that my husband put an old cooktop on, it was converted to propane. It’s my outdoor kitchen for canning in our muggy midwestern summers. We keep it in the garage and I can in the backyard. But I’m a city girl, no homesteading here, I just can what I grow which is mostly tomatoes. For whatever reason I am really only good at growing tomatoes. I wouldn’t survive as a homesteader but I can make some mean chili with my fresh canned tomatoes. I have a friend that makes cheese but doesn’t have a large enough yard to grow anything, we trade, it works well. I also can applesauce and apple butter. I go and buy seconds from the orchards, they aren’t pretty but they are inexpensive.

    I should also say I think the thing that irks me the most about the stove was that it was nice. The kids deserve nice things and I am sure it will never be seen again, that’s how things seem to work out on the shitstead, once something is removed it’s pretty much gone forever. Except for those poor kids, they were taken out and returned.

  61. I was concerned about the size of that stove because of fire safety. I shiver to convey my thoughts. Sheds aren’t built to have stove pipes poked out a wall. J &N have been lazy about the homestead & fire prevention hasn’t been a thought I’m sure. I’ve feared fire in that shed from the beginning, smoke rises. The children sleep in lofts with a ladder to allow for access to the floor/door. I am sure Sally has a fire safe set up for heating her home. I think J & N may have had a fire scare to give up a perfectly fine wood stove. I see it as neglect to heat a shed with a fire when children are sleeping & heaven help them if they don’t have a smoke detector.

  62. I am sure Sally has a fire safe set up for heating her home.

    We have a rock surround with a chimney built when the house was built. Very safe. And wired-in smoke detectors throughout the house.

    Yes, fire is a huge concern in that garden shed.

  63. I’ve been wondering about this, myself. Typically, new construction is required by code to have smoke detectors.

    They’re keeping 11 kids in a garden shed that cannot pass an occupancy inspection. How in the hell is this ok with Child Protective Services?

    http://dhbc.ky.gov/Documents/2013%20KRC%202nd%20Edition%20(February%202014)%20-%204.8.2014.pdf

    This is the Kentucky Residential Code that has all the rules about how houses must be built and what rules must be followed for people to safely occupy one and two family homes.

    By the letter of the code….what they are doing is illegal and dangerous. Smoke detector case in point.

    I wonder why no one at child welfare is pressing this issue?

    If one or more of the kids died in a house(shed) fire or were injured in some other way by occupying a dwelling that has not been inspected, fell out of a loft and broke their neck, etc……wouldn’t that make Children’s Protective Services legally negligent?

    How are they getting around this?

  64. I think you’re all reading to much into the stove thing. I’ll bet dollars to donuts that they sold it because they needed the money. And yes, someone would definitely buy it. They cashed in. Simple as that. Storage? My well washed and perky ass.

  65. ” I think it’s really fucked up to tell people to just go sell plasma. That’s fucking hell on that body, and that’s if you’re approved in the first place.”

    Actually, it’s not very stressful on the body at all. All you are donating is the liquid part of your blood. Your blood cells are returned to you. You can safely donate plasma up to twice a week…and be paid $50 per donation (More if you’re Rh-negative or weigh over 175 pounds). Young healthy people report feeling very little deficit or loss of energy. Of course it’s important to drink water and eat healthy while you’re donating, but it is not stressful like whole blood donation. Lots of college kids donate plasma once a week and make $200+ a month. Plasma is a life saving gift, and it is desperately needed by trauma and burn centers and to manufacture life saving medication. It’s win-win. And a very common practice at universities with research hospitals.

  66. The stove thing just makes less and less sense….So many people have mentioned that their own wood-burning cook stoves were TOO hot in a space much larger and more open than the Naugler shed…but I vaguely remembered Nicole mentioning their cook stove might not enough for winter. So I went back though the BLH FB posts and found this, which was posted just a month ago:

    We bought a new wood cook stove, but it won’t keep us warm in the lower temps, it’s great for fall and spring tho and for cooking in the outdoor kitchen. We purchased a larger stove for the cabin. It’s bigger than the one we had last few winters. Which means longer stretch between loading.

    So, OK, bigger heat stove = less work….
    (Pause for eye roll)….

    This was posted during one of the colder spells, so at the time I took it at face value, but after hearing others’ experience with their wood cook stoves ovens I’m finding it kind of interesting, that the Nauglers report that they aren’t getting the expected results with the cook stove. Could it be due to…an uninsulated shed? Bad fire-tending skills? Lesser-grade wood?

    Or maybe they did get results, and a fire scare, as mentioned above by @IKeepForgettingMyName.

    Whatever the reason, it’s a shame; adding to what @Dinah says, it looked like a nice stove; I imagine one really nice aspect of the cook stove is that it probably has an actual oven, which would have been nice for the people whose job it is to cook (i.e. Not Joe and Nicole).

    I’m also curious why the cook stove is “in storage” (What storage? Under a tree?) rather than being set up in the outdoor kitchen, which at least has a roof, so it could be ready and waiting for the next warm day.

    NaugLogic eludes me constantly.

  67. I hope Nicole is being sincere when she posted on her BLH page that she is not going to respond to the critics anymore. It would be amazing if she and Joe were really there for their children instead of bickering online with strangers. I would be happy to have nothing to read about them.

    I hope it’s true, but it is more likely Joe is in trouble for probation violation and the family is in trouble with child welfare.

    Or maybe they finally talked to a real lawyer and were told that they have no claim to harassment if they are actively posting and harassing too. If the Nauglers could just keep from flipping people off, threatening, cursing, trespassing, or posting pictures of neglected animals for a few months…and if the online attention of their family continues, they just might have a case for harassment. But I’m not holding my breath for them to behave like considerate adults and attentive parents.

  68. I hope Nicole is being sincere when she posted on her BLH page that she is not going to respond to the critics anymore.

    LOL!!!

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