Alterations

For the record, since we’re all going on the record here, Dave and I had our son’s body altered without his permission.

GASP.

He couldn’t give permission.

He was two years old.

That’s why he couldn’t give permission.  He couldn’t understand the words, and he couldn’t write or sign his name.

He had no idea what “herniorrhaphy” meant.

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29 thoughts on “Alterations”

  1. Crap. I did lots of stuff to my kids without their permission. I didn’t ask them if they wanted to go to the dentist. I didn’t ask them if they wanted braces. I didn’t ask the ones that have PKD if they wanted to take their meds. I didn’t ask them if they wanted a vaccine. I didn’t even ask them if they wanted dinner or even what they wanted for dinner. I didn’t ask them if they wanted to go to school and I certainly didn’t ask the if they wanted to go to college. I didn’t ask them what time they wanted to go to bed, if they wanted to do their homework or clean their room. I was one mean horrible mom. They turned out ok.
    And it’s illegal to tattoo someone under 18. Yet I’m pretty sure you will be telling your kids what to do and how to think after they are 18.

    Isn’t it interesting that you begged your dad for a camera and lessons and he got them for you. What a crappy parent as he didn’t make you earn it by working for him.

    Did your kids have a choice in being homeless? Did your kids have a choice in being thrown out of so many different places they called home? Did your kids have a choice when you spent money on weed and not rent, electricity, food, etc? Did your kids have a choice when they had to leave their friends at church, scouting, etc? Did your kids have a choice to live in a lean to? Did your kids have a choice not to sleep in the same room with you? Did your kids have a choice to speak with the cops? Do the kids have a choice on any of the limits in life you have personally chose for them?

    Get off you fucking high horse Nicole. Get help. Your thinking is totally out of whack. You are a bully.

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  2. For the record I too had my one of my sons altered without his consent. He was three months old. I had brought him to the doctor because he had been having problems latching and breast feeding. He had been losing weight so on doctor’s orders I supplemented breast feeding with bottle feeding. He continued to have feeding difficulties. A specialist had finally noticed that he was tongue tied and proceeded to “snip” his tongue while he was sitting on my lap.

    That’s one of the reasons I am an advocate of “fed is best.” Along with doctor Amy and most medical professionals I agree that the health of the child comes before any personal preference or desire of the parents.

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  3. Nicole’s descent into madness has escalated the last couple of days. The recent birth seems to have pushed her ever closer to the edge. Her impending labour and delivery may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. There is no happy ending for any Naugler nor, unfortunately, anyone who becomes associated with them.

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  4. We had Nathan circumcised as well. I’m not certain I would do it again – we were influenced by religion – but it didn’t bother him. He was fine with it and frankly, the subject was never discussed that I remember.

    And I wish I’d had my ears pierced as a baby. I had it done while in nursing school and it was sort of horrible (student nurses are not the best ear piercers, however, they do know how to use sterile technique.) My mother had a conniption when I told her because Jesus didn’t authorize doing that. 🙂

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  5. Did they ask the child before they stitched up his head with fishing line if it was ok to alter his appearance?

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  6. Our son was circumcised because his father was, and his father wanted his son to look like him.

    Our daughter’s ears were pierced at 2 weeks because I got tired of people saying what a pretty little boy. She was bald. She had some hair when she was born but it all fell out. I had some of those ugly little hair bands with bows, but it didn’t help.

    They don’t hate me. Daughter had her nose pierced for her 16th birthday. Son got a star wars tattoo when he was 25. She has 6 tattoos.

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  7. I think that NN misses one very hypocritical aspect of her lifestyle; by choosing not to do something for your child, you are in effect making a lifelong choice for that child. When my parents chose not to take me to a hospital or doctor to treat my third degree burn, they made an irreversible choice for me that they had zero right to do. Instead I went thru months of Aloe Vera and Vitamin E oil as “treatment” of my burn. Sure, a third degree burn doesn’t actually hurt a heck of a lot initially when the nerves are killed, but I can assure you it isn’t a cakewalk as it heals. I was covered by TWO different health systems (which in the 80s was nothing short of amazing), so it wasn’t a matter of a lack of coverage.

    The Ns could get all their kids health needs covered by various programs if they chose to. They are choosing not to give their children birth certificates, social security numbers, or any healthcare whatsoever; this isn’t something without future impact. You can go thru the legal process of removing yourself from Social Security if you want to as adults; I’ve known several adults that have done so. Using the excuse that Social Security is permanent simply doesn’t fly. Registering a birth isn’t reversible, but I honestly don’t see how having a birth certificate is a bad thing. I’ve had to use my birth certificate for innumerable things as both a working teen and adult; getting a job, getting married, probate on my father’s estate, my husband’s military enlistment so I was eligible for benefits and he was paid as a married rather than single man, drivers license, enrolling in college/school/vocational training, tribal enrollment/allotments….the list goes on and on.

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  8. I altered my daughter without her consent. She was born with two thumbs on her right hand and had surgery when she was two. (Thank you Shriners Hospital for free surgery)

    Before surgery the nurse was required to explain to her what was going to happen. Which I found amusing because at that age she barely understood anything beyond crackers and Barney.

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  9. …by choosing not to do something for your child, you are in effect making a lifelong choice for that child.

    This pretty much nails it. Nicole operates under the delusion that because she lets her kids dye their hair and “vote” on living on the homestead that she has given them freedom and autonomy. But in reality, by refusing to educate them, vaccinate them, allow them to socialize with peers off of their “homestead,” etc., she is permanently affecting their character and their potential.

    Make no mistake, Nicole – you are indeed imposing your own desires upon your children and any “consent” you think they have given is an illusion (I seem to remember a tiny little voice asking Joe what “consent” meant during a certain pre-state-kidnapping recording). Parents are supposed to make decisions for their kids; the rest of us just try to make decent ones.

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  10. My son was circumcised, due to severe hypospadias. Tired of dumbass saying how wrong it is when sometimes it’s a necessity. Whether or not I’d have had it done anyways, I can’t say. It needed done.
    That being said, what a relief that she doesn’t “believe in it.” A baby being circumcised in that shithole.. shudder.
    And lastly, Nicole can eat a bag of dicks. Don’t worry about what other people do with their babies when you can’t even keep your kids in your own custody.

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  11. I have to wonder if the kids really like living like they do. That famous sit down with the kids the night before they were to be in CPS custody, Joe basically screamed at them saying “do now you see / understand why we live like we do”. To me when I heard that from his lips you know the kids were questioning them on why they couldn’t have plumbing and electricity like everyone they know. I wonder if any of the silently said to themselves well it certainly isn’t working with how we are living cause they are taking us away. I bet they wouldn’t be able to voice that to the parents. When the two boys were being taken one of them meekly stated that his mom was making things worse. It seemed like they were more afraid of her than the police. I also wonder if Sheriff Pate picked up on that vibe.

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  12. There is also very good research that indicates that circumcision is a good medical practice. And there is research that indicates the opposite.

    It comes down to a decision that parents have to make and it’s between them and their physician(s).

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  13. Nicole is a self serving dumbass. In other news, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west; water is wet; and a shed is just a shed, not a cabin.

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  14. I’m in the process of having one of my kids cosmetically altered at the moment – via orthodontia. It’s super expensive and my child’s not at all excited about it, but as his parent I feel like it’s just not in his best interest to go through life with a tooth sticking out the front of his face like a goddamn narwhal. Call me a conformist, if you will. I recall being pretty unhappy about my own mother dragging me in for braces as a kid, but as an adult I can appreciate that now I don’t have snaggle teeth.

    This particular crusade of Nicole’s really boggles me. Are there really grown men out there raging at their moms and wanting their foreskin back??

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  15. We’re going for the first consultation to have our second eldest daughter get braces this week. Two of her adult teen aren’t going to erupt on their own, so we will have to use a combination of braces and surgery to have them come down in the proper position.

    Our youngest son is 4, but he has dental surgery on the horizon as well. He has an extra tooth between his two front teeth that has to come out so his adult teeth can descend properly.

    Our eldest daughter might need her wisdom teeth removed in the next few years. I wouldn’t be surprised if other kids will need to have that done as well once they reach their late teens.

    Dealing with teeth issues when you are younger is SO much easier. I know because my 4 impacted wisdom teeth are going to be VERY difficult to have removed now that I am almost 40

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  16. @Viral Introvert, yes, in fact, there are men flipping out that they don’t have a foreskin and had no say in the matter. It’s actually kind of amazing the things people find to obsess about.

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  17. Viral Introvert:
    So totally LMAO. OMG, yes.
    Been there too! As the Orthodontist politely pointed out many moons ago, there is more long term damage to kids, psychologically, when they are left to suffer socially from horrible dentition than the pains from orthodontics. Ok, sign me up for more overtime hours on the ol’ wheel.
    This is just another instance of Nicole’s recurrent rationale justifying her inability to engage the medical profession for services free of charge or without oversight. Much EASIER and convenient to rail against any and everything that: 1. Cost money, 2. Requires outside oversight, 3. Is science based and has authority over her almighty and challenged ego.

    Naugler modus operandi: If it doesn’t fit within her limited skills, and circumcision certainly does not, and she can google a reason why she can oppose the practice, post away and hopefully gain a few bucks from like minded supporters.
    Naugler economics and energy conservation.

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  18. I wanted to add that we wouldn’t have known about the undecended teeth, or the extra tooth without the dental X-rays the kids get regularly. There is no visual indication that our daughter even has adult teeth in those areas, and you absolutely can’t see the extra tooth on our son. If we didn’t have them fixed our daughter would have likely lost her front permanent teeth later (because the impacted teeth damage the roots of the surrounding teeth) and our son’s front teeth couldn’t descent properly at all because there is basically a wedge between them holding them up in place.

    There is zero replacement for those bite wings. You can’t deal with something you can’t see. My kids have beautiful teeth, but they need some help in childhoods so they can continue keeping them beautiful in adulthood.

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  19. Dentists are mandatory reporters. So the kids will never see one unless Joe or Nicole are ordered to take them.

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  20. I personally don’t go on facebook and announce on a regular basis whether or not my son is circumcised or not….Seems personal to me but whatever I guess.
    Few things, I wish my parents had pierced my ears too when I was little and I also greatly wish they had gotten me in some braces. I did not get my daugthers’ ears pierced because my husband asked me not to, he doesn’t like piercings. He also doesn’t like tattoos but he married me anyways. I got them when I was an adult, they are tasteful, easy to cover, and have meaning to me. No harm, no foul.

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  21. There are definitely some men out there who are quite irate about having been circumcised. There are even those who are trying to regrow their foreskin to make themselves whole again. It’s kind of a rabbit hole.

    What I don’t understand about the whole “take a vote” thing for the shed/homestead is what happens if they don’t agree? I only have a couple siblings and I can say that at least one would have been all in for living that way. I would have been out. No way in hell. I’m pretty sure the other would have been a hard pass too. So, do would they have just set up a tent in the yard for the ones who wanted this life? Or, screw the ones who voted house, this is how we’re doing it, but since we took a vote, we get to say that we all consented?

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  22. “What I don’t understand about the whole “take a vote” thing for the shed/homestead is what happens if they don’t agree?” Newbie
    Ever had to tell a litter of kids you’re going camping? It’s a very excited mob. They are CHILDREN. You don’t ask CHILDREN to vote on something like that. When I was little I dreamed about running away and living in a tree stump. CHILDREN don’t understand that kind of shit. Think about how fun it would have been (for a short time) to NOT go to school, live wild in the woods, and not have to bathe when ya’ll were children. Fun right? For a child. I use to make mazes in the wheat field behind my house growing up and I would disappear into that field for the entire day pretending I was some lost, off the grid, neverland child. Once the bugs started eating me alive though I was headed on back home to bathe and crawl into my clean, warm bed.

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  23. I wonder if the revved up drama this close to time for Nicole to have the baby is because she’s nervous about it and is trying to distract herself. Added bonus is that if anything goes wrong they can blame troll-induced stress and attempt a lawsuit.

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  24. A tale of two Nickys, if one were to just wander onto the BLH page you would think thats great that a wonderful family could just shuck modern life and live the free life.
    IF they made the muistake of visiting the NCN page and get a eyefull of F U;s along with a few dirty hoe C***s tossed in. What does that say? And the fact that some if not all agree with her and Jaba and his word salad make it doubly worse. warm up the watering trough daddy we got a little one a coming. ye ha

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  25. There are definitely some men out there who are quite irate about having been circumcised. There are even those who are trying to regrow their foreskin to make themselves whole again. It’s kind of a rabbit hole.

    Yes, I’ve seen comments online from men who are unhappy that they were circumcised. I think they are probably a minority, but there it is. I had my son circumcised as a newborn. We have never discussed the issue, nor has he expressed any dissatisfaction with the situation. When he was around age 16, he wanted to get a tattoo. This is much more common than when I was a teenager, but I still told him I would not give permission. I told him when he turned 18 (during his senior year in high school), he could get one or as many tattoos as he liked at that time, if he still wanted that. His 18th birthday came and went and I guess he changed his mind – no tattoos.

    What Joe and Nicole do cannot be accurately called “parenting.” They have sex, she gets pregnant, she gives birth, and she breastfeeds that baby for about a year. Once weaned, the baby is then left in the care of older children at the homestead, and Joe and Nicole repeat the process. That’s about the extent of their “parenting,” which is really not parenting at all. It’s called having unprotected sex, with the completely expected result.

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  26. http://transportation.ky.gov/Bike-Walk/Documents/Bike%20Law%20Brochure.pdf

    There’s the pertinent Kentucky laws about bikes.

    One question; aren’t there helmet laws over there?

    The answer is no. Not in Kentucky. Nobody cares in Kentucky if people end up brain dead. I took care of a woman who hit a small rock and went over her handlebars head first and I got to take her to the morgue after she died. I’ve never been on a bicycle since without a helmet.

    But it is Kentucky law that bikes must be ridden on the right side of the road.

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