A Tale of Two Victims

The First Story: Cathy

Once upon a time (actually, in 1967), there was a three-year-old girl, the daughter of Ukrainian immigrants who had fled to America. Her parents worked for an evil woman named Cleo Smith.  Cleo didn’t pay them as she had agreed, so the parents took Cleo to court and won.

Cleo, very irritated by this, followed the mother to the grocery store one day, and abducted the little girl in a green 1966 Cadillac.

The parents, named Ed and Elizabeth Tozar, were so intimidated by the US justice system (in spite of having just sued Cleo and won) that they just said, “Oh, well. . .” and didn’t report the kidnapping of their daughter.  That’s why you cannot find a single word about this event in any newspaper.

Cleo, along with her handy-man sidekick  Lou Hanby  (who, as it turns out, was actually legally married to Cleo), began to systematically abuse the little girl, who they called “Cathy,” both emotionally and sexually.  Cleo was rich, and lived on a farm outside Philadelphia.  She made her money by running a number of brothels in Philly. She also faithfully attended a local Baptist church for many years and was an avid fan of evangelist Carl McIntire.

As Cathy grew up, Cleo regularly pimped her out to men, almost exclusively to Baptist preachers, including every famous one you’ve ever heard of, and also to seminary students.

One day, when Cathy was about 12, she had to “entertain” Carl McIntire who raped her while Bob Jones, Jr (the then-president of Bob Jones University) watched.  Dissatisfied with Cathy’s performance, Bob Jr refused to pay Cleo the madam, so in a rage, Cleo poured a pot full of boiling water over Cathy while she was sleeping.  She was in the hospital for “months” with third-degree burns over 60 percent of her body.

After being released (in just four months), she was required to do all the farm work, including milking multiple cows and cleaning stalls and hauling hay and water for the horses, as well as taking care of the now-bed-ridden Lou, all before going to the private Christian school associated with their church.

A year or so later, after the hapless Lou died, the evil Cleo also died.

And Cathy was given to the pastor the church as a foster child and forced to live in the basement.  When she was 18, he adopted her formally.

She attended Bob Jones University two separate times, never graduating. The second time, she lived in town, and oddly enough, had great problems paying her rent.  She was evicted over and over again.  Yet, she had no problem whatever paying her tuition.

At any rate, having been raped more times than any other human being in history, she was raped yet again in a hospital parking lot in Philadelphia as she was leaving work.  You can read all about that at the link.

In addition, she was diagnosed with terminal (stage IV) bone cancer more than 10 years ago.  She has been undergoing chemotherapy off and on ever since, periodically appearing with scarves on her head because she has no hair, but miraculously regrowing it all in a matter of weeks.

She also has attempted suicide several times, with the most recent one being due to the fact that I publicly stated that I don’t believe her two days after the alleged suicide attempt.  You read that correctly.

In addition, she spoke to the entire Pennsylvania legislature, telling her sordid little story, and moved them to tears, and as a result, they passed a bill stiffening penalties for human trafficking in her honor, calling it “Cathy’s Law.”  (Only she didn’t.)

The End.

Does anyone, anywhere, believe any of that shit?

Well, yes, they do.  Cathy Harris blogs about it. She has more than one blog. More than two.

And she runs a Facebook page.

And the accounts are disjointed. You won’t find the narrative written out like I’ve done above. It’s all jumbled up and takes some effort to sort through and put in chronological order, which is why people don’t see how ridiculous it all is.

And this is what I said about it (in a private message no less), just about the part where she claims that she was raped by Carl McIntire while Bob Jr watched.

cathy mcintire

And OMG, I was immediately vilified.  There has been endless speculation about how in the world I could be so heartless and cruel as to not believe poor St. Catherine of Victimhood. And send her money.  (Yes, GoFundMe is a regular part of Cathy’s life. After all, she has to pay for all those cancer treatments.)

The bottom line is this.  You always believe sexual abuse victims.  You never, ever doubt a victim.  They are always telling the truth.  And even if they lie, it’s okay, because pathological lying is a symptom of past sexual abuse, therefore they are telling the truth.  (Don’t worry.  It doesn’t make any sense. I know.)

So, when the Naugler supporters found the Romancing site, which they absolutely do not understand, they grabbed a bit of it and began to chime in with the group over there.


Actually, that’s not true.  These folks can’t read, or don’t take the time to read enough to know what they are talking about, but no matter.

cult following

I have a cult following.  Who knew?  Oh, and I own and/or administer or edit the following Facebook pages:

My own personal page.

My son’s page. He can’t do it himself for obvious reasons.

My son’s other page. (Complicated reasons why there are two.)

There is a Facebook page about the documentary film about Nathan, but I do not admin or own that (either the page or the film).

A close friend’s memorial page (he died several years ago and was Nathan’s closest friend) I don’t own it but am an admin.

A group called “Errancy” which is about errors in the Bible.

And that’s it.  I have no fake identities. I have never had a fake identity.

victim blamer

LOL  Of course.  A “victim blamer.”


And isn’t that lovely? I’m a whore.  May I rot in hell, because I think Cathy Harris is a liar.

I am not Suzanne.

nicole calling me crazy

Nicole, I have never once threatened you.  However, your husband has threatened me with bodily harm and you knew he did it.  And I am not harassing you. I am making public commentary on your public commentary.  Please try to figure this out.

no sexual abuse

So, I’m a “nasty woman” who “harasses another woman about her sexual abuse and rape.”  I’m awful and horrible because I do not believe Cathy Harris and because I decided to go after her publicly.  She has spent years doxxing people and threatening them and doing all the sorts of things that people do to other people online to intimidate them.  But she’s a self-proclaimed sexual abuse victim and therefore I am horrible to doubt her.

You cannot doubt a person who claims to have been sexually abused.  If you do, you have “clear mental issues.”  That’s what Nicole says.

The Second Story: Alex

story of alex
click image to link

That’s from one of Nicole’s blogs.  It’s long.  Here’s the short version:

Joe had a wee affair and a child named Alex was the result. Alex’s mother is unfit or something, so Joe and Nicole took the kid.  Nicole was having miscarriages.  Bouncing around from state to state.

Fast forward a bit and Nicole starts having the Blessed Little Family, in Texas.

They sent Alex to visit his mother in New Hampshire, and the evil relatives arranged for Joe to be stripped of his parental rights.  This was totally not anything to do with Joe who was pure and a fabulous parent, but all due to evil relatives and the evil state.

And none of this would have happened if there had only been GoFundMe.

Joe and Nicole gave up.  Alex grew up.

But Joe and Nicole totally wanted to reestablish a relationship with Alex.   You know, for their children. For Alex’s siblings.  And then follows a very cryptic weird statement about how she’d been “warning” the state of New Hampshire for years, and it’s all on their head.  Note that.

And then a couple of poor us paragraphs.

daily mail
click image to link

But of course, then came the Blessed Little State Kidnapping, and the Blessed Little Court Hearing, and Alex appeared to testify that his father abused him when he was a child.

After the hearing, Brow said: ‘I got all the beatings. I got most of the mental abuse.

‘There was a lot of sexual abuse towards me. We had a very dysfunctional relationship.’

In the end, the court saw fit to ignore Alex’s testimony and give the Naugler children back to their parents.

JN statement

Now wait a second.

Alex, my 19-year-old estranged son, testified in today’s hearing. We are both heartbroken with the way Alex’s upbringing away from us and his strained relationship with his mother have affected him.

That’s interesting. In other words, Alex isn’t being truthful and the reason is that he was raised badly because Joe didn’t raise him.

But. But. But.


I thought that if you don’t believe a sexual abuse/rape victim, you’re a “nasty” person and have “clear mental issues.”


Oh, I see. It was “hitting.”  That was the only kind of abuse that Joe was accused of.  “Hitting.”

And people are fooled by it all.  Because we’re all stupid, and have disregarded anything except what Alex has said.

And Alex is clearly lying.


But here’s a bit from the “Story of Alex” in Nicole’s words, dated January 2013:

To have a family who loves you so much and to not know they even exist or that they care so much about you . . . I hope he is able to find it in his heart to contact us. I wish he knew how much we love and miss him.

There’s a nice tear-jerking statement for you.

 He has 9 siblings here who know about him. Two that remember him. Its hardest on Jacob.. He was 3 when Alex was taken. For years I protected those involved. He knows the truth of it all. He is also patient. He knows he will see Alex again someday.

And this one. She just wants her kids to know their half-brother.

alex accusation

And here we have what her cryptic bullshit remark was about. She’s accusing Alex of sexually abusing his cousin. She doesn’t say how they know this.  They haven’t spoken with him in 9 years, she says.  Notice the date:  2010.  Three years before the sorrowful “we just want our kids to know him” crap.

And Nicole contacted the state because she was all worried about Alex.

Well, actually she contacted the state because they were coming after Joe for child support.

My thought was if this guy cant(sic) hold a job flipping burgers how the heck can he handle a teenager with emotional issues.

But they hadn’t spoken with Alex for nine years.

Well, in the wake of all this, the Naugler surrogates and fakes began beating the drums.

criticizing Alex

The screen shot “off his page” is this:

alex comment

Note the date.  Alex posted that comment on May 3.  The children hadn’t been taken yet. He hadn’t spoken with Joe or Nicole in 15 years, if I’m counting right.

And he makes an offhand comment about “out of sight, out of mind” and getting “slightly noticed.”  No context is given. Nothing.  Do you know how many teenagers feel just like that?

And that is grabbed as “proof” that Alex just made up the whole sexual abuse story about Joe for attention because he wanted to be on television.

see on TV

And there he is telling his friends where they can see him on TV. So obviously, he’s lying for attention.

used as last resort

First, this page is almost certainly Nicole.  And just read what is said.

joes mother

Of course, Alex is just angry because he was robbed of having the wonderful childhood his half-siblings have had. He, too, could have shit in a bucket and lived in the Blessed Little Shitshack and slept on a large piece of plywood in the dead of winter.

And it’s all Joe’s mother’s fault.

pusey bogus

pusey more

Well, actually, Lawauna, you did. The claims are “bogus.” Alex made the claims.  Ergo, Alex is lying.

There is more of this, but that’s enough, I think, to make the point.

Alex says Joe sexually abused him.  Joe says that’s not true.  Nicole says it’s not true.

And all the Naugler supporters clamor that it’s not true.

Either Alex is lying, or Alex is simply deceived and was told stuff happened to him that didn’t happen to him, but it’s not true and they do not believe it.

Why is it okay for Joe and Nicole and their supporters to vilify Alex publicly and call him a liar and an attention-seeker and it’s horrible and awful for me to say that I do not believe Cathy Harris?  Alex’s story is plausible.  Cathy’s is clearly and demonstrably not.

Why am I a “nasty” woman with “clear mental issues” but Nicole is innocent and has such a loving heart?

Did Joe sexually abuse Alex?  Did Joe and Nicole physically abuse Alex (as in “hitting”)?

I have no idea.

I will tell you this, though.  Alex’s story is not an uncommon one. It’s not something ridiculous like the Cathy Harris “I was kidnapped and raped by every preacher in America” story.

In fact, the child who is most at risk of abuse (physical, emotional, sexual) and death is the step-child. Throughout human history, this has been the case.  Step-children are often abandoned, neglected, rejected, and sometimes murdered by their step-parent.

The risk is heightened when other children are born to the couple, because those children take priority. They carry the genes of both parents. The step-child does not.

But I repeat:  I have no idea who is telling the truth about all this. I sort of doubt the “Alex molested his cousin” story, frankly.  The rest is just anybody’s guess.  And I suspect that is why the court did nothing about it.  There’s no way to prove or disprove it.

But Nicole, you live in a  glass garden shed.  You really need to quit throwing stones.


28 thoughts on “A Tale of Two Victims”

  1. Thank you for putting this all together into a string of coherent posts. Even having experienced this behavior first hand for 9 months I was unable to perceive it as well as you.

    Thank you for having the character and fortitude to persevere in the face of such hateful bullying. I am privileged to have been in the virtual trench beside you, and if nothing else comes of this, mighty bonds have been forged and friendships made.

    I’m sure I will have more to say later on. Right now I am still absorbing everything I have just read, and will read again.


  2. I’m still wrapping my head around all this, but as I recall, Nikki once said that she would never call CPS on someone even if she saw bruising, but had no problems dragging Alex through that sort of shit when she never saw him at all?

    I’m coming right out to say this; I believe Alex.

    Nikki is far too inconsistent with her beliefs and statements to be at all trustworthy, and now I also see that my suspicions of Jo-jo were spot on.

    These people have no Ethics, no morals, and no principles. It is no surprise to me that Joe molested his oldest son. Looking at all the screenshots and all the interaction I had with this group of individuals, there are a lot of sexual and violent overtones. It’s pretty well established that Jo-jo is behind some, but I have been concerned that some was coming from the older children as well.

    The good news, and what I cling to, is that at least one GAL is still a pain and still apparently beating a drum for more investigation.

    I’m sure I’ll have more later. I need to digest this.


  3. As the other commenters have mentioned, this was another excellent compilation of the unethical, immoral and irresponsible lives of the Naugler parents. To think, no one would even know all this if Nicole and Joe Naugler had not made it ‘go viral’ in the first place. All truth, according to Nicole, on her many fb pages and personal blogs, and pulled together so excellently on this blog. Thank you, blb!


  4. I believe Alex
    I believe it took great courage to face Joe in the court room. Seeing him on tv, this is not a kid who was being cool, this is a kid who was visibly shaken and trying to do the right thing.
    Shame on you Nicole, you hate that child, you hate him even more because Joe has to pay child support. Your black soul throws him under the bus in several different ways, trying to convince your followers that HE is the problem, you are just sick.

    It makes a person worry what else is going on in the blessed little hell hole.


  5. I believe Alex too. Joe’s parental rights weren’t terminated due to a whim. Now that Alex has reached the age of majority, he can access that court case and read the entire file. It may make his life still more difficult in the short term but could possibly help him make sense of things as he goes through his 20’s.

    As for Cathy, when someone is that over-the-top I wonder if she’s some sort of stooge or plant to discredit those who were subject to abuse and rape within a particular group or system. She lacks credibility and it’s easy to use an individual as the tawdry face of a larger group (if one doctor is incompetent, or a thief, “They’re all like that!” which we intellectually know isn’t true, but emotionally it takes longer to convince ourselves). After all, only “those people” do that sort of thing. Surely not anyone within our group! Look at what is happening even now within ATI and the people who have stepped forward to accuse Bill Gothard.


    I hope Alex Brow is doing what most of us did in our late teens and early 20’s – see our childhood and youth as a kaleidoscope rather than a series of individual incidents. Some of us may have more irregular shapes, more “discordant” colours but hopefully still have moments of beauty. Doesn’t mean we want to recreate it in our future relationships though and may have to be aware of our tendencies to do exactly that unless we’re mindful of our words and deeds. That’s not easy. I hope he succeeds in softening the roughest edges and adds more colors to the palette that is his life.


  6. Amazing blog. Thank you for writing it.

    I too believe Alex. It is sad that the courts did not. Wish they had of so to save another kid from being a victim. Yes as much as I had to say it there will be more victim(s) or there are already victim(s) that are too afraid or do not realize yet what has been done to them is wrong. Pervs are good at brain washing kids into believing that things being done to them are okay and not wrong.

    The final chapter has not been written on this yet. Some day the net is going to fall and it is all going to come out. When it does it is not going to be so easy for them to hide. Thankfully now days there is DNA testing to prove things. They might think they are coy and smart now but it will come in time. Also the fact that they are on the records of CPS and having the kids removed that will help to get things done faster.

    I am well aware how perverts act had to deal with them day in and day out as part of my job. Believe me it was very hard not to reach through those bars and choke the shit of them. Also had to deal with the victims of perverts later on at another job. It is unreal to see the baggage that those who as kids were violated grow up with. More times than not it all comes to a head when they reach adulthood. Can you imagine carrying around a secret that terrible most of your life?

    Nicole just want to leave you with this tib bit = children that are molested grow up and are more likely to molest others.

    Sorry but when a man is having rough sex with a woman and they make a small child watch and tell that child “this is what women get when they are bad.” Only a disgusting pig would do that. Only a bat shit crazy woman would stay with a man that does that to her. Also totally disgusting when a man makes a child put their mouth on his penis.

    Alex if you read this there are many of us that believe you and we will stand strong with you. Thank you for your courage to stand up and do what you did. Son you are brave beyond words.

    Standing Strong for KY 11!


  7. Mrs. Naugler is alarmingly desperate to disprove these “rumors”. They have already denied the allegations of abuse through the proper media-channels. Anyone with dignity and confidence in their family’s [hi]story would not even think to respond to a lowly, out-of-network facebook-run campaign supporting Alex’s story alleging sexual abuse.

    How do we come to the right conclusion? Did Mr. Naugler abuse his first-born, as Alex himself testified? Well, if you’ve taken a course in “Critical Thinking”, you learn the following:

    Truth Value!! In logic, the truth value of a logical statement says how much it is true. Usually, the truth value can only be “true” or “false”. For example, “The car is red” is true when the car is red and false when it is not. In multi-valued logics, the truth value can be other values as well. For example, one could use a value between 0 and 1 to say how much it is true. Zero would mean that it is completely false and one would mean that is completely true. When the car is orange (and we define orange as half red, half yellow), the truth value could be 0.5 because the statement is half true and half false. This is also used in critical thinking.

    Given that we know Joe was absolved of his parental rights, which is not easily done without testimony, time, and reason; given Alex’s own testimony; given Mrs. Nauglers constant backtracking and excess of seemingly desperate and unnecessary explanations; given her shifting the blame to those that took responsibility to raise and care for her step-son when Mr. Naugler could not or would not; her plausible deniability equates to a lack of accountability. Obviously there is some truth to it, but it cannot be proven beyond all doubt.

    Conclusively, I would rate it, 0 to 1, zero being false, one being absolute truth, .8 It is evident there was some form of abuse, be it neglect or harm in the physical or psychological form. The Nauglers can explain away, attempt to back-track or victim-blame, but they cannot change the fact of the matter that Joe’s rights were terminated due to parental failure on his behalf, and that Alex does indeed allege sexual and physical abuse.

    Regardless, she should stop the strange Facebook campaigning and smearing of people who’s opinion she claims do not matter. It is very strange. And desperate. And it goes beyond all reason or logic.

    The slew of vacant-minded FB-fans who randomly comment in support do not have the time or mind to look beyond the BLH to see the potential abuse and child neglect – this is unfortunate but it only means that all of those “likes” and comments of solidarity are as vacant and meaningless as the “pages” she creates.


  8. Thank you for continuing to expose the truth.
    I agree with ProlpasedOvaries wholeheartedly.
    The allegations are either true or someone is making false accusations of the worst kind. One way or the other, this indicates someone who has gone through significant trauma and deserves unconditional love, support, and healing – especially from his family. Instead, the Nauglers belittle, condemn, and continue to traumatize him. I’m not even certain she’s doing it in an attempt for their own redemption or to save face as much as it’s part of this cyber war games she is certainly addicted to. Follows the exact same pattern as every other accusation she laments on every single page she runs: someone lied because someone wants to harm us and feel very, very sorry for us because it’s not true and if I scream it enough and loud enough certainly it will go away until the next time I bring it up for drama and pity. Just like the water. Just like the menacing. Just like the past employers. Just like every experience shared by people with real life interactions with the Nauglers. Everyone is lying but Nicole. Only Bill Cosby has had this sort of bad luck with victims’ accusations.


  9. I also believe Alex. Research has consistently shown that false allegations of child sexual abuse by children are rare. Intentionally false reports comprise less than 1% of all unsubstantiated reports of child abuse. I highlight “unsubstantiated”, because unfortunately, up to half of child abuse reports go unsubstantiated. But that does not infer it didn’t happen. It means not sufficient evidence of proof beyond reasonable doubt, or the perpetrator did not admit guilt. And furthermore, research with children whose sexual abuse has been proven has shown that children tend to minimize and deny abuse, not exaggerate or over-report such incidents. It’s also noteworthy that abuse victims who were more vulnerable to familial adult influences (i.e., younger children, those abused by a parent figure and who lacked support from the nonoffending caregiver) were more likely to recant.

    With Alex, I question what did he have to gain or benefit, by traveling to Kentucky in the heat of CPS removing the Naugler children, to give witness to his story? What do I think? I think his courage to come forth and travel all the way to Kentucky, was a sacrifice. He sacrificed the long, dark secrets he kept hidden, in an appeal of care and concern for his half siblings. In all reality, his story of sexual, physical and emotional abuse by the hands of Joe would be unsubstantiated to prove. And Joe will not admit guilt as the perpetrator. The benefit for Alex in coming forth to give witness at the court hearing during the emergency removal of the Naugler children, was for those children. It took incredible strength and courage, for that young man. And the sacrifice has been added, since. Almost immediately afterwards, he was victimized again, by Joe and Nicole Naugler, as we witnessed in the public comments on social media. And what we can only imagine, away from the public view.

    We don’t have privy as the public, of whether it was investigated for substantiated or not. Or in the future, if further investigation will ensue. Or if there is time limitations, to press charges.

    Just because charges weren’t pressed against Joe, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I believe Alex. And I applaud him for his courage. And his intentions for telling his story.


  10. One more thing, if I may.

    Nicole Naugler writes:
    “My thought was that if this guy cant hold a job flipping burgers how the heck can he handle a teenager with emotional issues…”

    Now, I ask this of Mrs. Naugler. Pray, do tell…
    “If [Mr. Naugler] cant hold a job flipping burgers how the heck can he handle [11 “free-range” children] with [or without] emotional issues…”

    HA. She is discounting her step-son’s guardian for his disability and consequent unemployment! This is coming from a woman who’s husband/seedplanter/father of 11(!) other children remains chronically-unemployed.


  11. I have always believed Alex. Personal experience working with child victims, adults who were child victims, statistics, a wealth of legitimate and in depth studies, and even reading between the lines of the Nicole’s own conflicting published stories lead me to that belief.

    When Alex flew all the way here to Kentucky to stand up for brothers and sisters he doesn’t even know, I was moved by his courage and compassion. I can only hope that he moves on from all this and has a wonderful life. He has earned it.

    There is no evidence that the courts did not believe his testimony. That is just something the blessed ones bandied about. Something some people chose to believe because, after all, the children were returned to the Nauglers.

    The law is far more complex than that, requiring more immediate evidence as to each child, and even in the face of evidence and proof, reunification of the family is paramount. I know this because I was once a part of the system when I practiced law. The stories I can never tell of the horrors children suffer. The stories I can never tell of those same children often returned to their parents because the appearance of “modifications of prior behavior rendered the home acceptable”, that is until the next time.


  12. Everyone who knows Joseph Naugler in real life, has seen him interact with his children, or has seen him interact with children in church groups, has no doubt that Alex’s claims are true.


  13. @I like cheese and socks wrote: “…you hate him even more because Joe has to pay child support. …”

    This would explain not getting a real job by Joe. If he doesn’t work for a legitimate employer, they can’t withhold child support. Even with a good address, which the other state would have if they looked at the KY cases from 2015 but they still can’t get child support because there is not an employer. The other state could nab his taxes, but they would have to pay for taxes and get a refund before being able to do that. A good non-custodial parent would be a good parent and send child support directly to the correct state’s disbursement unit. But that is an example of what a good parent would do. I bet Joe isn’t paying a dime and Nicole is just mad because the other state found them when their story went viral.


  14. Wouldn’t this also explain why Nicole hasn’t filed taxes for years? If they file MFJ, then isn’t there an expectation that the child support would be paid? Or does he really and truly have to have a job of his own – which doesn’t make sense to me either. If the taxes are filed and income is shown, they’re married so there is income available to pay towards the back child support. In my state, if you’re behind on your child support then don’t be surprised if you lose your driving privileges.

    I don’t know. Basically, they know they owe money and at some point when he was hauled in front of a judge a few years ago, it was lowered to $50/month and they still chose not to pay it. That’s not pathetic, that’s behavior that would lead to community condemnation. Not to mention setting a bad example for the children you’re currently raising. A statement that applies equally to Joe and Nicole.

    I’m certain that Nicole’s family doesn’t say much to upset Nicole (truth or otherwise) because they know Nicole will make it impossible for them to communicate with the children. The kids don’t have their own phones, Nicole and Joe have the keys to the PO Box, if she cut off their internet access that would cut off communications. It’s not like there are many pay phones left and calling collect is probably not something for which they have any working memory (the kids).


  15. Did Joe send any assistance to his first-born, prior to being ordered to do so by the court? Did he ever, EVER! send Alex any money for support or for any reason?

    I can only guess but my guess is NO. He did not. Not one red cent. Until he was *ordered to reimburse the state for money paid on Alex’s behalf.*

    Often we hear “that’s so out of character for him/her” but character is not something one is born with, it’s developed each day one draws breath. So what you do today, what you did yesterday, what you will do tomorrow *is* your character.

    What about it, Joe and Nicole, did you ever send money (or gifts) to Alex prior to being ordered to do so? Would Alex or his guardian confirm that answer? Did you think calling him once or twice a year was all a good, loving parent did? You blamed Alex, too, didn’t you? I don’t need confirmation of that. It’s easy to discern from your writing.

    You both sicken me.


  16. @Tekla about the child support, when married and file jointly the spouse that doesn’t owe child support can file an “injured spouse” form and not allow child support taken on their half of the refund. So if the couple is getting an average refund of $3200, child support could take the whole thing but if an injured spouse form was filed then child support would only get up to $1600. (“Up to” because the person may owe less than the tax refund.)


  17. I believed Alex from the get-go. I also believe that Alex is the most fortunate child of all the Naugler children. I abhor what Joe did to him. But when Joe’s parental rights were terminated, Alex was set free from living a life with his abuser. My hope for him is that the guiding hand of a top-notch therapist will be able to provide a path for Alex to have a good and stable life.
    Some day, the other Naugler children will step forward with Truth about the man who fathered them. Spilling secrets they were never supposed to utter one word about. Kentucky CPS and the State of Kentucky will be shilling out millions to those kids for failing to protect them.


  18. This is really going to be hard for me, but I do have a lot of things that I would like to share concerning Alex’s situation that might help other’s understand to full scope of things.

    I’m going to need a day or two…..all this has been difficult to read and take in.


  19. In regards to taxes being withheld, if Nikki were to file “head of household” & not “Pa” on the return at all 9/10 she would receive the full return sadly. Basic tax filing experience/skills here. There are so many ways around tax laws its unreal.


  20. Also I have believed Alex since day one. How can she defend that perv over a child? She is insane. My gut tells me those 11 children have seen & experienced some horrific nastiness & perversion from both “Ma & Pa”. Is there proof that they “teach sex ed” by making the kids watch? I can’t see where they fit in “sex” when there are 11 children on the property, 10 of whom are mobile. I have way less kids & no way in hell could I fit in sex or baby making as much as they do. They have to be screwing like rabbits. Can you imagine the way they smell, humping and dear god the “clean up rag” (puke), again 9/10 its probably caked in fecal matter. Okay, Sorry for the visual!!! Excuse me while I go visit the porcelain god!!! ?


  21. Oh geesh, I just about spit my lunch salad! Thanks for that visual, BlessedOneIsOffHerRocker!!

    Yeah, that whole personal privacy, where does that happen in their micro condensed living quarters? For the pubescent teens, too. I mean is there any personal privacy with the white buckets port-a-potty, undressing, bathing or sponge bathing, sex, and any other preferred personal privacy activities? Walls are a good thing! Even doors to shut. Jeepers creepers….peepers everywhere!

    I suppose it isn’t an issue with Nicole, and probably Joe too. Modesty and personal privacy, hell the whole world that wanted to see her naked butt and coochie coo, there it was. Hey, maybe the whole sex and where do all these babies come from, is a masterful schooling adventure. Oh no, here comes that visual again! gasp.


  22. Dear BlessedOneIsOffHerRocker

    Thanks for making me lose my lunch. I had read on BLH, I think it was a comment made by a pathetic supporter that Ma and Pa were very creative when it came to finding a time and space for their baby-making activities. I would guess they just throw the kids out of the shit shack, no matter the weather and make them wait outside while they get it on.

    If they put as much energy and creativity in raising the kids they already have as they do to make new babies they might not be living in such filth and deprivation.

    As for Alex, I believe him and pray he gets the support to create a fine, stable life for himself. There is no excuse that could ever justify the behaviour of Joe and Nicole Naugler. It is hard to fathom that they choose to live in abject poverty with 11 additional children just to avoid paying $50 bucks a month in child support for their eldest and 12th child.

    That’s Joe & Nicole for you. They are willing to cause any kind of harm to any of their children to uphold their so-called principals.


  23. I also believe Alex. I hope he knows that there are resources out there to help him heal. If he has no insurance, Medi-Cal has counseling programs through the Department of Mental Health. There is no reason to suffer in adulthood for events he was victim of.

    What adds credence to Alex’s allegations is how the Nauglers were living prior to the CPS intervention, and likely how they currently live. By that I mean where the children endure a total lack of personal comfort and privacy —emotionally, spatially, physically, sexually.

    Ten children piled together on a plank of wood, no mattress, while the parents have at least a mattress (filthy, but at least some comfort)? Children sleeping together, boys and girls, all ages from toddlerhood to adolescence. Does this constitute abuse? I believe so.

    Do children deserve a modicum of personal space? Yes. When a boy reaches puberty and has wet dreams or wants to masturbate—a very normal and healthy thing— how is this possible when he is squashed up against his siblings? When a girl has the same urges, is she to do this next to her brothers? When she begins to menstruate, where is the privacy for her? How do two girls in a family of nine boys and an adult male deal with their body changes when there is no privacy at all?

    And what about parental sexuality? It’s very likely that some of the children have heard or seen their parents engaged in sex. Joe and Nicole have children that co-sleep with them. Hearing and witnessing adult sex is not something a child should be privy to. The child cannot yet understand this behavior, nor should s/he be obliged to make sense of it. The sounds and sights of adults copulating can be very frightening to young children.

    Then, there is the family practice of watching Nicole give birth. How much of this is an agenda, pushed by Joe and Nicole on their children, that “this is what our family does”? What if one of the children is uncomfortable watching Mom on all fours, straining out a baby like she is having a bowel movement (which is also there for all to see). In psychological terms we call the pressure to conform to an activity “group think”. Do our voluntaryist Naugler parents allow their kids to the right and even encourage them to not participate in the Blessed Little Birth? What about the autistic child, how does this affect him? For many children the pain, groans, screams, inevitable body fluids pouring forth during birth are too traumatic, and the child should not be pressured to be present.

    The cult-like Naugler lifestyle provides many opportunities for psychological abuse. What child would not prefer to have his or her own bed, a clean room, a few toys, the chance to play with other children who are not their siblings? These children have been brainwashed to believe their parents’ “principles” and living “minimally” are more important than what they would secretly prefer, a warm clean bed of one’s own. Maybe a door to shut and be alone. Joe’s domineering personality, Nicole’s allegiance to being “different”, have likely squashed any of the kids’ secret hopes and dreams. They are not stupid, they have internet and see how the Westernized world lives. Just not them.

    Abuse is not just sexual or physical battery.


  24. “Abuse is not just sexual or physical battery.”

    Exactly. This should be embroidered on their wiping cloths. I’d suggest tea towels but who are we kidding?


  25. I have followed this story more out of shock and disbelief. I too dealt with CPS/DSS and it was due to addiction issues which I worked very hard and not only did I go to rehab have psychology evolutions I had to be employed and was responsible for paying child support for my 2 kids in care. I also had one on one counseling family counseling but I had to provide a home with each child having thru own rooms because my son was 2 and daughter 10. And had too maintain sobriety my job my home and all utilities as well keep up with the in home and in office counseling as well as adequate avehicle with car insurance with zero help from the state. Praise God my hard paid off my kids were taken 11/16/12 temporary custody of my daughter returned August 2014 and temporary custody of my 3 year old 2/14/15 and sole custody no strings attached 5/9/15. So it is baffling how they have their children. I don’t understand. Some one needs to be a voice and I can only imagine the amount of money they collected. It should be a crime how those children are forced to live. Education is everything it is their power to break this insane circle. I pray daily for them all.


  26. I worked very hard

    And my hat is off to you. You are an example of the system working very well indeed. They were not only able to protect your children while you dealt with your issues, but they also provided you – not with monetary support, which as you can see, simply enables the Nauglers – but with motivation and counseling. In the end, it wasn’t two lives that were provided with refuge, but three (yours as well).

    I am very happy you are reunited.


  27. I’m still on the fence a little bit here about Alex being sexually abused. I just feel that if it was true the other children they had at that time would have been taken away from Joe and Nicole. So I don’t know what to really think right now.


  28. I’m still on the fence a little bit here about Alex being sexually abused.

    I am too. I never automatically assume that the accusation equals guilt.

    But Cathy demands that. The accusation is the guilty verdict, period, always, no exceptions.

    She and Nicole need to have a little conversation about that.


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