Runaway train never going back
Wrong way on a one way track
Seems like I should be getting somewhere
Somehow I’m neither here nor there
From what I can gather, this event occurred in March, 2014. [Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about that.]
The youngest daughter left home. She was seven years old. She was found walking down the road, at least a mile from the Shithole. A woman picked her up, was concerned about her, brought her home, and something that was said, or something that she saw, just something caused her to make a phone call to the police.
This was Nicole and Joe’s first lengthy encounter with Sheriff Pate. In the recording, they declare repeatedly that they don’t know him, but in one place, Joe clearly says to Nicole that he has, in fact, met Sheriff Pate previously, so who knows.
Nicole recorded all this. She uploaded it in bits and pieces. These are those bits and pieces, transcribed for you. In some cases, it’s pretty clear that something has been left out. Whether that is due to editing by Nicole, or whether it was simply due to nothing of interest happening and therefore the phone was cut off to conserve the battery is anyone’s guess.
Scene: Nicole, who is recording, is walking through the woods, or along a path.
Nicole: Hello. We can talk down at the end of the driveway.
Male voice in background, indistinct, probably Sheriff Pate.
Nicole: Hey. No, no, no. (maybe talking to a dog) We can talk down here at the end of the drive [by?] your car, please.
Pate: Okay. I’d like to talk to [name of youngest daughter, hereafter referred to as Daughter].
Nicole: Um, not right now.
Pate: Excuse me?
Nicole: Not right now. Not without my husband here.
Pate: Yeah, I’m gonna go talk to Daughter.
Nicole: Um, not without my husband here.
Pate: Did you hear what I just said?
Nicole: I did hear. I heard you plain and clear.
Pate: She was found down here. I am going to walk up there. . .
End of Recording 1
Scene: We see Sheriff Pate, who is talking on the phone, in mid-conversation. Either Nicole quit recording on that last bit, or there was a big edit, but clearly this is not seamless.
Pate (on phone): (indistinct) . . . we’ve got a right to secure the area, and I think that’s what we will do.
Nicole: They’re gonna secure the area. (It’s unclear who she is talking to, as Pate remains on the phone). That’s lovely.
Pate: It’s your call. . .
Nicole: No, it’s your call. You’re the one that came onto my property. I’m in my yard. You’re not in your yard. I’m in my yard.
Pate: (still on phone) Um, 1073, Tiffany, if you, yeah, you know how, if you turn. . . where will you be coming from? Hardinsburg? If you turn, if you turn. . . (walks away still on phone giving directions)
End of Recording 2
Scene: We see Sheriff Pate with his back to the camera, and a second officer with him. Sheriff Pate paces a little and is looking at his phone.
Second Officer: What’s happening?
Nicole says something to somebody with her, who mumbles a reply.
Sheriff Pate: Can you tell me if there’s any weapons on your property?
Jacob: We have a 22 rifle.
Sheriff Pate: Where is that 22 rifle?
Second Officer: Do you all homeschool?
Jacob: indistinct but I think he said “Yep.”
Second Officer leans over to pet dog, whereupon Nicole immediately calls dog to her. Pate answers phone.
Jacob: (this is unclear – those are the only words I could distinguish) . . . broken bone or something. . .
The two officers walk away from Nicole. Pate is talking on the phone.
End of Recording 3
Scene: Pate is standing with second officer, talking. I can’t understand what he’s saying.
Nicole: I walked beside you the whole way up.
Pate: But, anyway, here is what we’re gonna do, ma’am. Okay? Here is what we’re going to do. I’m getting ready to call Judge Embry. Now, either way, whether you like it or not, and you’re welcome to turn your recorder back on if you turned it off, we will be talking to her.
Pate: Whether you like that or not. I am now. . .
Nicole: Under duress.
Pate: Because you have decided to tell me that I couldn’t, I’m getting ready to call one of our judges. I’ve called the Cabinet for Families and Children. You’re stirring up much more than there needed to be. Hold up. I let you talk just a moment ago, okay?
Really, all I wanted to do was pull her to the side and say, “Is everything okay?” without you telling her what you wanted her to say. Basically, you’re leaning down there. . “Is there any problems? Is there this? Do you want them? Do you want. . .?” Well, it’s kind of like when you go in a domestic violence call and the woman comes to the door and says, “Everything’s okay, everything’s okay.” I don’t know what’s behind her, so I’m going to talk to that woman by herself, just as that’s going to happen here.
Now, I think you’re gonna regret going about it this way. I really, really do.
Nicole: Yeah, usually people who stand up for themselves end up regretting it somehow because of retaliation.
Pate: No, I’m not going to try to create. . . no retaliation any way whatsoever.
Second officer: It’s concern for these children.
Pate: He would have never been here. I would have been gone by now.
Nicole: I’m sure you’re very concerned about my children.
Pate: I absolutely am.
Nicole: I’m their mother.
Second officer: She was standing out there in the road, looking like the lost. . .
Nicole: She went for a walk. She was. . . yeah. Like I said, she does that. She likes to go for walks in the woods. We have 28 acres and she just kept on walking.
Pate: Well, I like to check on children who are walking down the road with no parental supervision. And I just check on them. You know, I have children myself. I understand that they wander off. I understand this, that and the other and that’s simply all I want to do.
I have been in a position where I have seen children that walk off that have been severely abused. I’m not saying that that’s the case here in any way whatsoever, but I will not go home to my home tonight, nor will this officer until we find out exactly what the case is.
Now, all you’ve done is opened a big ole’ can of worms. . .
Nicole: No, I just asked you to respect my wishes and speak at the end of the driveway. I would have brought Daughter down there, but you came up here.
Pate: For all I know, somebody’s holding her up there. I’m still going to . . .
Nicole: But you didn’t give me the chance. I actually turned around and told him to go get Daughter.
Pate: I didn’t give you the chance. I don’t give people the chance to hide drugs, or tell people what to say or whatever, when I have a right to be in a place – and I do have a right to be here . . .
Nicole: Yes, because this is not actually my property. It’s the state’s property and I’m just here squatting on it until somebody tells me to leave and tells me what I can and cannot take, my children, you know, my livelihood, my animals, whatever it may be.
Pate: I’m not trying to do anything, ma’am
Nicole: Well, that’s what it ends up usually and I’ve seen far too much of it.
Pate: Not usually, okay.
Nicole: I’ve seen far too much of it. I’ve seen far too much of it.
Pate: I don’t want to leave these guys or girls with a bad impression of the police. . .
Nicole: They’ve already got one, so, (laughs) . . .not gonna change that.
Pate: There are bad apples in every. . .
Nicole: Yeah. We’ve seen. . .
Pate: Don’t compare one person to another.
Nicole: We’ve had more negative instances, or seen more negative instances, I should say,
Pate: If you present yourself the way you did with me to the police, I understand exactly why.
Nicole: Well, I’ve had very few encounters. I’d say that we have watched them on. . .
Pate: Well, if he’s on his way, I guess I’m gonna call Judge Embry.
Second Officer: How many children are here, ma’am? How many do you have?
Child’s voice: Nine.
Second Officer: Nine? What form of support do you have?
Nicole: What form of support? I work and my husband works.
Second Officer: Okay.
Nicole: We have no state government welfare assistance at all. We do not take bribes from the government.
Second Officer: Is your husband not here right now?
Nicole: He’s on his way home. He’ll be here in a moment. He actually had to leave his job for this, so hopefully it doesn’t interfere with, reflect poorly upon him. He’s highly respected at his work, so. . .
Pate: Well, it could have been very easy. . .
Nicole: Well, I asked you in the beginning, I said, that’s the first thing I said to you, why I don’t want this happening without my husband present, and you could have come back tomorrow.
Pate: No. I’m not gonna do that after a child has been walking down the road. For all I know
Nicole: So, it’s a crime for her to walk down the road?
Pate: No. But it’s my obligation. . .
Nicole: But I’m asking you, is it against the law for her to walk down the road?
Pate: Yeah, if I wanted to. . .
Nicole: What law would that be that said that she’s not allowed to walk on the, down the road? What law would that be? Because I’m not familiar with it, but there’s so many books, I mean, stacks and stacks. I’m sure Breckinridge County alone has stacks and stacks of books of laws that you and I will never even hear of, but I’m wondering, do you know if there’s a specific law that forbids her, or that makes me negligent, for her walking down the road. Because she was walking down the road.
Pate: (indistinct) . . . she was picked up by a vehicle, did you know that?
Nicole: I was aware of that. We talked about stranger danger, about getting into cars with people, after she did that.
Pate: Yes, we consider it neglect.
Nicole: But, it could be considered , depending on one’s definition, but is there a strict definition of the law?
Pate: Um. . .
Second Officer: Yeah, pretty much there is.
Pate: Yeah, pretty much there is.
Nicole: Could you cite that for me please?
Second Officer: I can pull the book out.
Nicole: That says she’s not allowed to walk down the road. I’m just wondering. I mean, I understand your concern but I’m wondering why I feel like I’m being persecuted like a criminal because my daughter was. . .
Second Officer: You’re not being persecuted. . .
Pate: We haven’t persecuted you in any way at all.
Nicole: You came onto my property after I asked you to meet you down by the car, we could have talked down there, but you insisted on pushing your way up here, which means you guys are looking for more stuff. Maybe I have some weed growing on the property somewheres, or maybe I have some kind of illegal still or something. I don’t know. Maybe I’ve got, you know, twenty children tied up as sex slaves or something. I don’t know what you guys have in your heads.
Second Officer: I don’t know what you have either.
Pate: When you tell me I’m not welcome on your property and there’s been a little girl out walking around. . .
Nicole: Okay, but when I tell you. . . am I welcome on your property? Can I just walk into your property? Can I just go onto your yard? Can I just go into your house?
Second Officer: When you go up to the front door and knock, yes.
Nicole: My front door happens to be down there. My property ends down there. My property line is down there. You have come into my space.
Second Officer: We have a right to proceed onto any. . . You’ve done told us it ain’t your property, so what are you . . .
Nicole: I was saying that sarcastically. I didn’t. . . mean the state owns it, I don’t. No one ever owns their property. The government owns your property, and they cease it whenever they see fit.
Second Officer: Oh, okay.
Nicole: But yes, this is my property. Whether I be owning or renting, it’s still my property.
Second Officer: We have the right to come to your front door and knock, on any issue.
Nicole: Well, I met you down there.
Pate: I’m proceeding with an abundance of caution at this time. I really feel that I have the right to go right in your house now. . .
Nicole: I’m sure you do.
Pate: You don’t think I do? Well, I feel that I have that right under what we call “exigent circumstances,” meaning that I have. . .
Nicole: Mmmm, meaning that anything anybody does, especially if they stand up for themselves, cause, gives them probable cause. I understand that. I’m fully aware of that. I’m fully aware of those circumstances.
End of Recording 5
Scene: Pate and Second Officer are seen, with Pate again on his phone.
Pate: . . . (indistinct) the little girl walking down the road. . . turn your portable off, please. Well, I bet that still won’t do it. Breck County, can you copy now?
Nicole: (talking to goat) They don’t have food for you, Fiona.
Pate: Breck County, can you copy? I’m going to turn this other vehicle repeater off and . . .
Nicole: Get down.
Pate: Again, I don’t know what experiences you all have had, good or bad or in-between, but it’s nothing. . .
Nicole: I just like my property respected.
Pate: I will tell you this. I was on my way home when this call came out. I’ve got a responsibility. I can just say, “Okay, I don’t care if this kid was walking down the road. That doesn’t bother me. . .”
Nicole: No, I understand your concern, but what I don’t understand is why you wouldn’t respect me and my property.
Pate: I would have been, I would have been out of here a long time ago . . .
Nicole: If you would have let me speak to you at the car, I would have brought Daughter down. You didn’t even give me the opportunity. You insisted on coming up here.
Pate: Ma’am, you have to understand. . .
Nicole: You have to understand. . .
Pate: I have to protect young people too. I have an obligation . . .
Nicole: But you know what? The protection part of the law is so minimal that’s not usually what we see. . .
Pate: You know the last little boy that they wouldn’t let us in the house, he was chained in a closet with his own feces rubbed in his face. And had I not gone the extra mile, I don’t think that little boy would have been living.
Nicole: That’s less likely to be the case, especially when I said I. . .
Pate: I can’t take that risk.
Nicole: I had sent them up there to go get Daughter and bring her down. They told me they wanted to speak to Daughter.
Pate: You know, when people don’t want you up there, there’s something they are hiding.
Nicole: No, I just want people to respect my property. I’m not hiding anything at all. I don’t hide things because I’m hiding things, because I want my privacy respected.
Pate: Does he carry any weapons?
Nicole: Does not.
Jacob: The only weapon we have is the one I told you about.
Pate: Okay, and what is your father’s name?
Nicole: His name is Joseph. He’ll be here in a moment and you can speak to him about anything else you need to know.
Child: He’s right there.
Jacob: He don’t look too happy.
Nicole: (laughs) Well, he’s probably not. He had to leave work.
Jacob: (very low) well, he’s in trouble [Brother’s name], get inside.
Child: Dad’s home.
Nicole: Daughter (indistinct). . . [Child’s name], get inside.
Jacob: [Brother’s name], get inside before you get in trouble.
Nicole: [Child’s name], get inside please. Thank you. Unless you wanna come out here and start talking to the police officer. You have something to say? Are you gonna go inside? Or do you want to come talk? Just wanna be nosy?
End of Recording 6
Scene: Joe appears to be coming up the path, Pate meets him. They are away from microphone range except for some indistinct talking. One of the kids walks into and out of camera view.
Pate: (speaking to Joe) Here is the situation, and here’s where we’re at at this point.
Joe: I want everybody out of here right now. (talking to kids)
Pate: We got at least one call, maybe a couple of calls, that your daughter was walking down the road, blah, blah, blah.
Joe: I hear you. Yeah.
Pate: The lady said she looked to be seven or eight but she was a very cute little girl and acted as if she was scared. Okay, uh, she actually picked her up and dropped her off up here. So I come driving down this road where I think this little girl might be walking, don’t find her and realize that probably this is where. .. my unmarked white car where you see it.
I was met down there by I guess your two oldest boys at the car, very nice, polite, and told me that Daughter is at the house. . .
Joe: (sharply) Daughter, come here! Come here please.
Pate: Actually I sat there for a moment and they said that their mother would like to talk to you, so they come trucking back up here and I’m thinking, you know, I better go check this out a little further. I don’t know what’s up here, you know. I was met with a lot of resistance from your wife, in that “I don’t want you on my property”. . .
Nicole: I respectfully. . .
Pate puts up his hand to shut her up
Joe: (apparently to Nicole) Please. . .
Nicole: Thank you.
Pate: (resumes). . . “I don’t want you on my property,” “It’s the state’s property,” um, “you can’t come here without an arrest warrant,” actually, to the point that criminal charges actually could be filed against her.
Nicole: (to child) Take him. Everybody sit behind me.
Pate: Here’s where we’re at at this point. I have an obligation, you know, she will let me talk to Daughter through her, but basically all I wanted to do and what I feel that I have a responsibility and an obligation to do is pull her to the side. . .
Joe: (motions) Come here.
Daughter appears in camera.
Pate: . . without her saying “this, this, and this” tell him “this, this, and this.” Uh, I don’t expect , uh, ones this age (he reaches out and pats Daughter on her head). . .
Joe: (walks toward Daughter and puts his hand on her head) Let me go ahead and just tell you where we come from. We homeschool. We homebirth. So we get a lot of resistance from society. We get a lot of resistance. I mean, just like the lady that picked her up. Her knee jerk reaction was to call somebody instead of bringing her here when everybody around here knows she lives here.
Um, so we tend to get kind of defensive, um, but we don’t need to add fuel to a fire. . .
Pate: I have the Cabinet for Families and Children on their way now.
Joe: That’s fine.
Pate: Actually, I think that we – were you are all living in a mobile home somewhere a few miles away not long ago? We came over and talked with you all then, I think.
Pate: Naugler. You lived somewhere else here in the county, I think, didn’t you?
Joe: No. I mean, it was over in Big Springs.
Pate: I can’t remember.
Joe: We’ve never dealt with law enforcement coming on. . .
Pate: No, we had come there to see you for whatever reason, I don’t know, I came with the Cabinet for Families and Children. . .
Pate: whoever had already moved. It’s a double-wide mobile home. No? Okay, it may not have been, I couldn’t. . . the social worker asked me if the last name was Naugler and I asked and she said no, but really, I just want to talk to her at this point and I just want to see what’s going on around here and if, you know, you all have every right. . . I feel like I have every right, probably, to have gone in there without her permission under exigent circumstances, meaning people can be hiding and destroying evidence, blah, blah, blah. . .
Joe: Destroying what evidence?
Pate: I don’t know.
Joe: I was going to say. . .
Pate: I don’t know.
Joe: We’re innocent until proven guilty, I mean, so we live in that, we have a 4th Amendment right to our property.
Pate: You have a 4th Amendment right to your property, but you don’t. . .
Joe: The only probable cause you have at all is just, she walked down the street.
Pate: That’s exactly right.
Joe: And that really isn’t more of a probable cause of anything but just to make sure that this little girl got brought back to her family. And here she is.
Pate: And to make sure that she’s not, that she’s living in an environment that is (ringing phone)
Joe: And this is based on what? Your standards? Or ours?
Pate: No. I mean, you don’t have to have running water. You don’t have to have a refrigerator. You don’t have to have this, that and the other. But, we’ve come to this point and I’ve reached resistance from the time when I walked up this hill so I feel like I have to further investigate it, and that’s what I’m gonna do. I’ve got a Cabinet worker coming out here, um, and we can look around the property with you all’s permission or we can get a search warrant. That’s probably what I’ll end up doing.
Joe: Go ahead. Get a search warrant.
Pate: . . . tell me that. You know I told her, I said, hey if you’d have just said I’ll walk on up here. . . I’m not saying that you’re living in a way that you shouldn’t be, but if she’d have given me the opportunity to talk with her for two or three minutes off to the side with her standing
Nicole: . . . if you’d given me the opportunity. . . You’re the one who never gave me the opportunity. I walked down to meet you. I had sent my boys to go get Daughter. I was walking up, then you. . .
Joe: (puts hand on Daughter and begins walking away) Everybody sit reverently down [Note: this is hard to hear]. Right now.
End of Recording 7
Scene: Nicole is holding camera toward ground, walking toward the garden shed. This is Garden Shed #1, and predates the Shitshack. There is debris all over the ground, of course, and Joe is walking in front of her.
He says something I cannot understand and she replies and I can’t understand that either.
Pate: Is it Joe? Is that your name?
Joe: My name is Joseph, yes.
The next view is of the open door of the garden shed looking in. It appears that Nicole walks in and shuts the door, panning around the shed.
Nicole: (to kids) Sit at the table now.
Joe: Give me the 22, please. Just give me the 22 so I can set it right here.
Nicole: No, I’m recording
Joe: GIVE ME THE. . . Jacob
Nicole: He’s getting it.
Joe: Thank you. Here you go, sir. This is all we have.
Nicole: Sit down. Sit at the table now. Sit at the table now.
View through the window of the two police officers conferring. Joe is standing on some pallets to the right at a bit of a distance.
Joe: We’re not getting rid of anything.
Pate: I’m not saying that you are. I don’t know that you’re not. I’m not saying that you are.
Joe: And you have no right to accuse us of this. You have no right to accuse us blankly of anything. I’m not sure what you would be looking for.
Pate: I’m not saying that you are. I’m not either.
Nicole: (from doorway) Angel, it’s okay.
Child’s voice: But I’ve never seen this stuff.
Nicole: You can watch the video later. Guys, I can’t record audio if you’re in here making noise.
Video pans and children appear to be rapidly trying to clean up. Shed is a mess.
Joe: You’re the ones with guns that are loaded with one in the chamber. I mean, who really has to be afraid here? You better make sure that you’re prosecuting the right tracks because there will be a lawsuit after this. . .
Pate: I’m telling you what, you’re not gonna go in now.
Joe backs into cabin and begins yelling.
Joe: You can’t just come in like this. You cannot. . . Call the state police! Call the state police right now!
Pate appears in doorway.
Pate: Call the state police. I’m getting ready to call them myself.
Nicole: That’s fine. But you can’t just come forcibly enter.
Pate: You can leave the door open and stay out here with me.
Joe: Absolutely not. Get your foot out of the doorway, sir. Call the state police. Right now. I want the state police out here now.
Pate: I don’t feel that that’s right, Rick (Second Officer), do you?
Joe: It doesn’t matter. It’s our home.
Nicole: . . . because we’re standing up for ourselves. . .
Pate: I would like for you to stand here at the door, I would like for you to stand here at the door and leave it open so I don’t know that someone – I know you’ve told me there’s no other weapons, but I don’t. . .
Joe: It doesn’t matter if I do have weapons. I have a 2nd Amendment right. You have weapons.
Pate: You absolutely have that right.
Nicole: You have a weapon.
Joe: So quit trying to take my rights away. And I haven’t done anything wrong.
Pate: I’m not trying to take your rights away.
Joe: I had to come home from work in fear of, that the government was gonna come and disrupt my family life, and nobody’s done, nobody’s done anything wrong. And here you are, still threatening me. I want this door shut so I can talk to my family.
Pate: Let me say something to you, okay?
Joe: Nicole, call the state police.
Nicole: I’m trying to right now.
Nicole: I’m trying to.
Pate: Let me say something to you, before. Okay? I’m trying to be very easy to deal with with you. I’m telling you. . .
Joe: And so am I. . .
Pate: I’m telling you, I’m telling you, that if you close this door , and I’m going to allow you to do that, if you close this door, I’m going to talk to the county attorney and there’s a very good oppor- chance that you are going to be arrested.
Joe: Okay, Nicole, are you recording this?
Nicole: I am.
Pate: Have you got that? I want her to record it. Do you understand that? Do you understand that?
Joe: Do you understand my rights as well?
Pate: You are willing to take that chance.
Joe: Sure. Absolutely. You can get your foot off my door, please? Please.
Pate: I want the door to remain open.
Joe: You just said you were gonna. . .
Pate: I want it to remain open.
Nicole: (on phone in background) Yes, hi. I’m not sure who I need to call, but I’m in Breckinridge County, and we have the county sheriff out here and he is harassing us and not following protocol and I’m getting kind of scared here, because we’ve given him our weapons already and now we’re unarmed and he won’t even let us close our door and he has no warrant or anything. He just came up here and barged his way through and I am terrified. And I don’t know what you guys have, I don’t know what jurisdiction you have, but I would like a state trooper here immediately.
NOTE: Throughout this recording, as Nicole gets upset, she gets louder and more shrill. It’s interesting that during this phone conversation with the State Police office, she is the calmest that she appears in this entire thing. Not harsh, or shrill and certainly not “terrified.”
Pate: I’ve got one the way.
Nicole: I have a Breckinridge County sheriff’s officer at my door. He will not. . . he’s not following protocol and I’m recording everything. And I want a state trooper here now.
Um, I am on Whitworth-Lockard Road. There is no address. It’s about a mile down on the right-hand side, it’s a driveway. The house is back from the road.
Joe: Jacob. Jacob. Come here. I want you to stand right here and just keep your arm on this door.
Jacob comes and is basically placed between Joe and Nicole in the shed and Pate at the door.
Pate: Hello, is (name not clear) there?
Nicole (still on phone): Well, my daughter went for a walk on the road and they got a call about her and they wanted to come talk to me but then they wouldn’t follow protocol in talking to me. They just barged up into my property with their weapons and took, and we gave them our weapons to show that we’re not hiding anything but they still insisted on trying to enter. They won’t let us close our door. They won’t let us. . .
Joe: (in background) Everybody have a seat.
Pate: I tell you what, Em, would you try to call him too and tell him to call me on my cell phone?
Nicole: I’ve never been in a position where I was scared of a sheriff’s officer but now I am because now they’re calling for more people to come in, they’re letting us proceed with our normal. . . Thank you.
Yeah, I called the state police.
Pate: Yeah, and tell him to call me pretty soon if he can. Okay, thanks Mandy. Bye, bye.
Nicole: I’ll have to start recording on yours in a minute cause mine might run out.
Joe: Yeah, I’m not sure what this gentleman wants.
Nicole: Complacency and obedience.
Joe: Yeah, I can see that.
Nicole: Complacency and obedience, that’s what he wants.
Joe: Jacob, stand right here so this door doesn’t fly. . .
End of Recording 8
Scene: We see Pate’s legs, standing on the pallet that seems to serve as a landing for the garden shed, with a bit of Joe visible to the right. Somehow, Joe has come outside since the Great Standoff At The Door occurred.
Pate: . . . at this point.
Joe: There will be a lawsuit after this. I want you to know that.
Pate: And there very well may be an arrest after this.
Nicole: An arrest for what?
Joe: I have broken no laws.
Nicole: Daughter never broke any laws either.
Joe: Nobody broke any laws.
Nicole: I asked him to cite me that and he never provided me with that information.
Joe: (turning and walking into the shed) I know it. They just intimidate you and bully you.
Pate: I’m not required to cite law to you.
Nicole: Because you don’t know it. You’re enforcing laws that you don’t understand.
Pate: Um, yes I do.
Nicole: And that’s not. . . that’s scary. That’s scary.
Joe: You are supposed to. . .(more but Nicole is talking over him, drowning him out)
Pate: I told you what my investigation was about and that is why I’m here.
Nicole: And had you let me walk my daughter, she was on her way down. If you had let me walk her down there, this would have been all resolved down there. But you insisted on coming up and I said, hey, at least wait until my husband gets home and you didn’t even wanna do that.
Joe: (very sharp tone) You don’t have respect for people and their rights and their families.
Pate: You refused to let me talk to your daughter. (He says something else but Nicole and Joe drown him out.)
Nicole: I refused to let you talk to my daughter alone.
Joe: As a mother she has a right to refuse.
Nicole: Yes, without a warrant. . .
Pate: She has a responsibility to keep up with her children. . . walking down the road. . .
Joe: and you have a responsibility to hold up the Constitution. You really do.
Pate: That’s what I’m doing.
Joe: No you’re not. We have a 4th Amendment right. You’re violating that absolutely. You are on my property without a warrant. (To Nicole) You’re recording this, right?
Nicole: I am. I’ve recorded as much as I can from the beginning.
Joe: This is going viral. This is gonna be a lawsuit. We’ve already got. . . I already called a few people on the way over.
Pate makes phone call.
Nicole: . . .threatening my family now. . .
Pate: What have I done to threaten you?
Joe: You just got done telling me that I was gonna be arrested if I closed my own personal door on my property.
Nicole: You threatened to put him in jail. You told my children
Joe: You have no grounds. You have no grounds, sir.
Pate’s call connects and he begins talking to the person on the phone and turns his back to Joe and Nicole.
Nicole: You can’t just threaten someone with arrest when they’re not doing anything
Pate: (on phone) Are you in the middle of anything at this time? Okay, I am over at a residence in (walks out of range of hearing)
Joe walks into camera view.
Nicole: He has my children in tears now. If you’re so concerned about my children, why are you making them cry? Why are you making them fearful of you? Barge into my house like that. . .
Joe makes motion toward Nicole and says something indistinct, but clearly wants her to shut up so he can listen to Pate’s convo on the phone.
Joe: Right there. (points at Pate) (Then to children) I want everybody reverently at the table. That’s why we don’t want these people involved, do you understand?
Second Officer: That’s the state trooper. He’s on his way.
Joe: Thank you very much. What’s your first name?
Second Officer: Rick.
Nicole: And he’s the sheriff, acting sheriff.
Joe: Yeah, I’ve met him.
Nicole: Yeah, . . .pretty sure. . . vehicles.
At this point, there is some wind interference
Nicole: . . . walking away. . .
Joe: yeah, that’s because he’s trying to manipulate the information for the judges
Joe: We technically have nothing to hide but that doesn’t mean we need to give up our rights
Nicole: No. That’s what I told him.
Joe: We’re just camping on the property for a couple of months.
Nicole: Doesn’t even matter. Doesn’t even matter. I don’t have to explain myself to anybody. I’ve harmed no one. Committed no crime against anybody, and I’ve done nothing wrong, but yet, here I am.
Nicole: I understand that. ( Sound of car engine) Oh, he’s speeding. Oh, he’s probably speeding. Go get ’em.
Joe mumbles something and Nicole laughs. Pate is out of ear shot on the phone.
Joe: My wife is. . .
End of Recording 9
Scene: Continuation, it seems, from Recording 9. Pate is in the distance, on the phone.
Nicole: (Indistinct). . Got your phone? Oh, I put it there.
Joe: (indistinct) . . . firearms. ..
Nicole: He asked if there was anything and Jacob told him.
Joe: Okay, we don’t ever. . . this is why. Look they wanna come in and control everything. They want to dictate our lifestyle, our language and everything. We don’t. . .
Nicole: He tried, at first, but they kind of . . .intimidated him. And that goat got into that trash again.
Note: Pate asked the question about guns and Jacob answered it without hesitation. There was no “intimidation.”
End of Recording 10
Scene: Looking at an officer’s legs and the trashy yard. This conversation appears to be carried on for the benefit of Second Officer who is standing nearby.
Joe: . . .our property and to make our lives hell.
Nicole: Right. Repercussion for not cooperation. Yep, but that time, remember a couple of years ago when CPS came, they, they said that they, that I could stand there while they talked to Daughter.
Joe: Yeah, I know. I know.
Nicole: That’s how that’s supposed to work.
Joe: I know. That’s why I want the state police out here because they backed us up.
Nicole: I wasn’t telling Daughter what to say. I just wanted to be there, present, when he talked to her, at the end of my driveway.
Joe: I just don’t want them sexually abusing my child. I don’t want them sexually abusing my child. . . talk to the child alone. (Speaking to Second Officer) I mean, you weren’t even up here yet, were you? Yeah, see, it would have been different if two of them were up here.
He should have never have asked you that without a husband here.
Nicole: Right. If anything, a female officer.
Joe: I’ll have to call . . . and file a lawsuit no matter how this turns out.
Nicole: Well, might have. . .
Joe: Still recording?
Joe: Hopefully I’ll be able to go back to work.
Nicole: I was asked how we support our children.
Joe: Oh, really?
Nicole: I said we both work, we don’t take government bribes.
Pate finishes phone call.
Pate: Okay. I don’t like to even phrase things this way. I don’t mind at all obtaining a search warrant, which is a possibility, a likely possibility
Joe: Well, I thought that’s what you were calling for. She’s not approving it?
Pate: No, she’s not. She said you, if you want to go back and let them give you permission, that’s fine.
If not, get the county. . . okay, I really don’t feel good about it
Joe: That’s fine. Because I don’t feel good about a single man that we don’t know, we’ve never met you before, asking to speak to my seven-year-old daughter alone.
Second Officer: But it’s okay for her to be walking out in the street
Joe: That. . . she walked off. . . we didn’t give her permission to do that. She got properly disciplined for that, so, we’re parents. Kids make mistakes, we disciplined her for that.
Second Officer: Are they properly being watched after? When they walk away?
Joe: Absolutely. Absolutely
Second Officer: When they get a mile away. . .
Pate then steps up and motions for Joe to come with him aside.
Nicole: To be truthful though, I trust my daughter more by herself than I do with somebody I don’t know. But granted, she did. . .
Second Officer: She’s exposed to people, you know. I mean, you know, there are probably
Nicole: I agree, it wasn’t a safe move for her to do and we discussed that with her and she’s lost privileges because of that, but. . .
Second Officer: There are probably 150 registered pedophiles in this county that have moved here.
Nicole: Yeah, it’s a pretty high number.
Second Officer: That was the concern to start all this anyways. The caller didn’t think she was safe out. . .
End of Recording 11
Scene: Pate standing in camera view, Joe to the side.
Nicole: And what is your search warrant going to entail? What is your. . . excuse me. . .
Joe: No, let them do what they’re gonna do.
Nicole: I would like to know what your search warrant entails, what your search warrant’s gonna specify
Joe: That’s going to depend on what he tells the judge.
Nicole: I’m just wondering what you’re looking for with your search warrant, because it has to say what you’re looking for.
Second Officer: It will be in the search warrant.
Nicole: Yeah, what are you asking for, then? What are you asking for?
Joe: You’re not going to preemptively tell us what you’re. . .
End of Recording 12
And that is all.
Which is sort of anti-climactic, is it not? There is no denouement. What happened? Did Sheriff Pate get a search warrant? Did Joe get arrested? Did anyone ever talk to Daughter?
Well, Nicole doesn’t appear to have ever said, but we sort of know.
From the “we’re taking the kids” video, we have this:
Pate: If you don’t allow, after allegations have been made, the Cabinet for Families and Children to speak to those children, just like I said the last time – and Joe said today, he said, “Well, you said you were getting a warrant last time and you didn’t.” No, I did not. Why did I not? Because you all allowed them to speak to the Cabinet worker. Here’s how I see this thing going down. Here’s how I feel certain that it’s going to go down.
Nicole didn’t contradict him here, so we have to assume that’s exactly what happened. They got a social worker out there and Joe and Nicole caved and allowed the child to be interviewed.
This, along with the “taking the kids” video, was my first introduction to the nightmare that is Nauglerville. I was immediately taken aback by their almost callous disregard for their daughter. Daughter did not “go for a walk.” Daughter was seven years old and walked over a mile away from the Shithole. Daughter was running away, or at the very least, trying to get away for some reason.
To get that far away, she had to have been gone for a minimum of 20 minutes and I would guess far longer, probably the better part of an hour. I don’t know, because Nicole doesn’t say and probably never will say, whether or not anyone even missed the child, or if the first thing they knew about her even being gone was when she came home.
And Nicole’s excuse about how they have “28 acres” as though they live on some extremely large amount of property is just horseshit. We have 20 acres, not very much less than they have. It’s not all that much land. Most of ours is fenced, in fact. I could walk all around the whole place in probably ten minutes. I know Nicole is somehow under the impression that they bought this enormous plot of ground, but by country standards, they have a very small place (as do we). One of our close neighbors has almost 60 acres and he considers his place to be small. The dairy has 400 and is considered a small dairy.
Yet, their response to this is to carry on about how she was “disciplined.”
You don’t “discipline” a child who runs away.
I wonder what happened to the lawsuit?