JUDGE: So Luthi, Ms. Luthi is represented by Mr. Bolus. Mrs. Naugler, Ms. Luthi, both of you raise your right hand and be sworn. Do each of you swear or affirm to tell the truth before the court? Ma’am? [looking at LISA] And ma’am? [looking at NICOLE]
LISA: Yes, ma’am.
JUDGE: Alright, put your hands down. I need everybody to speak loudly. As you can tell, I don’t hear very well today, sometimes better than others, I don’t know what that’s about, but, Mrs. Naugler, I need you as the petitioner to state your name.
NICOLE: I’m Nicole Celeste Naugler.
JUDGE: And your address.
NICOLE: Seven-one-zero Whitworth-Lockard Lane in Garfield, Kentucky. 40160
JUDGE: You have filed a, a protection petition against Lisa Luthi, is that correct?
NICOLE: Yes, ma’am.
JUDGE: And, uh, will you tell me what happened that caused you to take that petition?
NICOLE: Um, well, the courts are familiar with the events that happened to my family back in May. . .
JUDGE: I need you to just, instead of just, you can’t assume. . .
NICOLE: Right [continues to attempt to interrupt]
JUDGE: . . . for the testimony today, you’ve got to discuss what has happened.
NICOLE: In 2015, May, my children were taken by CPS. (starts to cry)
JUDGE: Okay, that thing.
NICOLE: That garnished a lot of attention to my family, sorry (she’s crying), I was trying really hard.
JUDGE: You want to take a minute? I’m sorry I didn’t mean to create. . .
NICOLE: That’s okay.
JUDGE: additional stress.
NICOLE: That garnished a lot of attention to my family and some of that was negative. Um, some of that negative attention came from people who had organized to prevent. . .
BOLUS: I object to the characterization (unclear) we are getting into hearsay. We’re getting into evidence that is not competent to establish the allegations that she’s attempting to make for the statutory requirements.
JUDGE: What I’m gonna tell you is this. Um, to a certain extent, he’s right.
JUDGE: Uh, primarily because, uh, you’ve not given any hearsay testimony at this point, but what other people have done is not particularly relevant for our purposes, so if you’ll try to, uh, uh, maintain in your comments to what you know specifically about this lady here, that will help us move more speedily. How about that?
NICOLE: Um, so anyways, the attention grabbed people who worked together to prevent my children from being reunited.
BOLUS: (unclear but objected)
JUDGE: Overruled at this point. She’s not said anything that’s hearsay at this point, so. . .
NICOLE: One of those individuals was Ms. Luthi.
JUDGE: There we go.
NICOLE: She, um, admitted later that she was friends with the woman who filed the anonymous and . . .
JUDGE: She told you she was friends with the lady who filed?
NICOLE: She made it public on her public page. She created a Facebook page called “Blessed Little Trolls and Their Minions” and she used that page as a advocacy group for harassing of my family and targeting of my family. She posted on that page and elsewhere that she was friends with the individual who made the, um, allegations against my family that instigated the CPS investigation. (she starts crying again)
She also indicated to people that she was a retired attorney, and that, um, people revered her expertise on her assessment and opinions of my family as, I guess, more credible than, than the typical gossip that was found on the pages.
JUDGE: So you saw that written on her page? Is that what you’re saying?
NICOLE: On her Facebook pages and on blogs that she visited, that she, um, other websites.
JUDGE: Are you saying that she commented on?
NICOLE: Um, well, she authored the page, but then she also commented elsewhere on the internet.
JUDGE: All right. Let’s just. . . go ahead.
NICOLE: And, um. . .
BOLUS: And, Your Honor, and one thing, and I am going to object if she’s going to ascribe things to people or to, uh, pseudo. . . or to what we’ll call them, pseudonyms that she’s going to say are Ms. Luthi. I mean, if, if she’s talking about things that Ms. Luthi said directly, then, then that’s fair. That’s not hearsay. But if she’s talking about pseudonyms, I have no idea what she’s referring to.
JUDGE: So far, she’s talked about Ms. Luthi, and do I understand that Ms. Luthi signed her name, or her name was above the comments. . .
NICOLE: She. . Yes.
JUDGE:. . . that you described?
NICOLE: She used one of them was a Facebook page that she, herself, has admitted to being . . .
JUDGE: So what is the name of the Facebook page?
NICOLE: . . . that she credits, that she admit to being the authored. She publicly has said that numerous times. So, these pages, her page, she fueled a lot of this. She provided a platform for not only herself to, um, target my family but for others to do so as well. She provided this platform. She then interjected herself into my personal life by, um, by becoming acquainted with my neighbors both at home and at my business, and she has appeared at several of our court dates, um, without any provocation other than just to be there for what I have taken as twenty-two months, now, twenty-three months of intimidation purposes.
After my children were returned. . .
JUDGE: Do you know what court dates she came to, ma’am?
NICOLE: Um, I know there was one she came where, um, I was not present but my husband was, with Mr. Sneed, when our goats got loose
JOE: [to NICOLE]: April 16
NICOLE: April 16th, I believe it was, last year. Um, she was there. .
JUDGE: Now, that was not anything with the original comment you made, the May 15th situation
This was separate?
NICOLE: Right. Separate. A separate incident that has nothing to do with my children but she was there. I don’t know why she would have contacted my neighbor or gone to court with him, but she did. And she’s not an attorney, she’s retired. Um, so I know she wasn’t there as legal counsel. Um, she’s contacted , and this is based on her postings on her Facebook pages and conversations that she’s had with individuals. . .
JUDGE: Did you print any of that out?
NICOLE: Um, I have some of it but not all of it printed out currently.
JUDGE: What you have printed, you probably need to, we need to make a copy of to show to, uh, Mr. Bolus.
NICOLE: [Starts looking around for her bag] But she. . . I’ll have to find that, it in. . . my toddler dumped my pages last night and I didn’t get them all organized, so. ..
[JOE puts giant bag on desk]
NICOLE: . . . so I’m not sure what I have.
But she has, um, contacted these people and, and like I said, she’s followed me around about some places. . .
JUDGE: Where has she followed you? And do you know when, can you describe specifically?
NICOLE: I can, well, most recently, um, that I’m aware of, some of these events I’m not aware of, she just posts about them on Facebook, and um, posts photos of my home and, um, my business, but she has, in January. . . what I wrote on here (shuffles through papers) was kind of the straw for me to file the EPO was on January 30, um, she followed me, um, and my husband when we had court with the Martins who just left, um, she has. . .
JUDGE: Was that in Hardin County?
JUDGE: And that was in January?
NICOLE: Um hum. She has no, um, legal business being there. She was just there because we were there. And this, um, she’s been outside my
BOLUS: Um, I’m gonna, I’m gonna object to that statement. She’s, at that point in time, she’s engaging in speculation.
JUDGE: When she said she had no reason to be there?
NICOLE: She was not legally obligated to be there. Is that correct? Should I just say that?
BOLUS: It’s a public building, Your Honor, and the courts of the Commonwealth are open.
JUDGE: It is a public building, Mr. Bolus, and what I’m gonna suggest to you is, uh, I’m gonna have to figure out a way to ferret some of that out. She doesn’t have the same kind of training and expertise in, uh, evidence law. . .
BOLUS: Yes, ma’am.
JUDGE: . . . and so I’m going to probably give her a little latitude. I’m gonna try to not let her get too far, but continue to make your objections, but I’m gonna let her go forward at this point, uh, at least to some degree.
NICOLE: I’m trying to see what I have. . .
JUDGE: So you’re looking copies of the Facebook page now?
NICOLE: Um, I may not have them on hand, Your Honor, and I apologize for that, but I printed out a whole bunch of screen shots for, for other cases and I haven’t, um, I don’t think I have anything of those other than. . .
JUDGE: You believe that she followed you in January to the Hardin County courthouse is what I’m hearing you say. Are there any other dates you are aware that she followed you? That you saw her?
NICOLE: Um, I know that she posted video of the incident on January 30. She took a video of it and posted it on her page publicly.
JUDGE: Is that the same day that we’re talking about?
NICOLE: Yeah. She’s also, um, alluded to, I guess, on her page. I don’t have definitive, and I apologize, I know that doesn’t fit the criteria, but she’s been, like I said, she made, she’s made acquaintances with my business and my personal neighbors to allow her to drive by my home and my business to photograph and document
BOLUS: Your Honor, we’re, we’re in rank speculation now.
JUDGE: Have you, um, have you seen her driving by your residence?
JUDGE: And do you know when that would have been?
NICOLE: I don’t have dates. Um,
JUDGE: Do you have, I mean, you don’t have to have dates, but generally
NICOLE: It’s been, um, um, the last time, I believe that, um, that we noticed her was a few months ago. I don’t recall the dates.
JUDGE: Do you think about two months ago?
NICOLE: About two months ago, probably.
JUDGE: Was that the only time, or are there other times?
NICOLE: No, there were several times last summer, and the prior. . . it was shortly after my children were returned. Um,
JUDGE: Last summer she drove by? One or more than one time?
NICOLE: Um, I, I, I can say one that I know of. A lot of times it’s my children that notice people driving by, and they, unfortunately, I have had to show my children pictures of these individuals, including Ms. Luthi, so that way if they do see them passing by our home, they know who to identify.
JUDGE: So, you know that she drove by in January. You know that she drove by last summer on at least one occasion. Any other times that you are aware that she drove by?
NICOLE: Um, I know prior to that, shortly after the April incident, that she was visiting the neighbors frequently, like I said . . .
JUDGE: The April 16 goat incident?
NICOLE: Um hum, because she was working with them, I guess, in some manner to, um,
JUDGE: So she was at your neighbor’s home in April?
NICOLE: Correct. And in December, January, she was also at my business again. She did not know my neighbors, my business or my home neighbor, until after her obsession with my family
BOLUS: Objection. Characterization.
NICOLE: Um, like I said, she posts about me and my family on almost a 24-hour basis on her page. You can go back a year and a half or so and everything she posts on her Blessed Little Trolls and Their Minions page is directed to me or about me.
JUDGE: What’s the name of the page?
NICOLE: It is – she takes it down before court – it’s called “Blessed Little Trolls and Their Minions”
JUDGE: Blessed Little what?
NICOLE: Trolls. Blessed Little after my homestead, Blessed Little Homestead, and then Trolls and Their Minions. And the page has been taken down, and um, what not.
She’s also done several audio podcasts with a, um, a podcast called “Naugler Nation” and in these podcasts, um, she also further, (starts crying again) further makes me feel like she’s obsessed and stalking with my family because that’s all that they talk for two hours on the podcast. They do two or three a week. Those have also been scrubbed from the internet.
JUDGE: Tell me, two or three times a week?
JUDGE: . . . that Ms. Luthi is discussing you and your family?
JUDGE: And when is that most recently? When did that most recently occur?
NICOLE: Um, it has not occurred that I’m aware of since the IPO has been filed. It was occurring two or three times a week before the IPO was filed, but since I filed the IPO
JUDGE: The IPO was filed, in, in Hardin County, right?
JUDGE: Do you know the date on that? Mr. Bolus?
BOLUS: (unclear but asks her to repeat the question)
JUDGE: The date the IPO was filed
BOLUS: The date of the Hardin County IPO was like (looks at LISA)
LISA: January 30
BOLUS: January 30
JUDGE: 1/30. So not since then. But before that?
NICOLE: Um, yeah. [Looking through mountain of papers again]
JUDGE: Three times a week there would be a podcast. Would it be just Ms. Luthi or Ms. Luthi and others?
NICOLE: No. Someone else hosted it. She co-hosted it. It was almost always her and the podcast. They would talk about things, uh, just general conversation to derogatory comments toward me and my family. It would all be. . .
JUDGE: So you would not be the sole topic of conversation. You would just be a topic during the time.
NICOLE: It was, I was primarily the topic. It’s called Naugler Nation. My name is Nicole Naugler. I was the primary topic. My family was. Some, sometimes they would get sidetracked with just banter but most of the time it was regarding my family in some way, shape or form.
JUDGE: All right, and so, this was before January, all right you’re saying it was three times a week and do you know how long that went on?
NICOLE: Um, in just a correction here, the IPO was filed February 27. In Hardin County. Not January 30. Um, just for your records.
[talking with JOE]
JUDGE: All right. Now, um, you said she was f- she was coming around your business as well, is that correct?
NICOLE: Yes, she, um, like I said, she had no knowledge, um, no relationship with my business or my home neighbors until
BOLUS: That is speculation
NICOLE: She’s admitted she had no known relationship with my neighbors until after her, um,
JUDGE: Who did she admit that to?
NICOLE: Um, she said it on her podcast, she said it in. . .
NICOLE: her Facebook page. And, um, my neighbors have also confirmed that. I know that’s hearsay, but. . .
JUDGE: What the neighbors said is not admissable. These podcasts, are they, like, able to be brought up?
NICOLE: They have been scrubbed from the internet. I was able to save one, because it was on a separate hosting. It’s called the Drunken Podcast. And basically she said, the host, they were drunk and she made a mistake, she hosted it somewheres else and we were able to save that one but we were not able to download and save the other ones.
JUDGE: So all the rest of them have been taken down?
NICOLE: Right. I do have, because in that podcast that I have saved, one of the reasons we saved it was not only for Ms. Luthi but for our other case with the two individuals that have previously left. They were also participants in that podcast. Um, so, um, I’ve gone through and tried to, I was, I was just recently able to save that, I was actually gonna work on it all this week to try to get some audio for the court hearing, but as the podcast was scrubbed, I’ve only gotten halfway through one of them. Like I said, they are two to three hours long each, so it takes a lot of time to stop and record. I do have one audio that I’ve picked up this morning from that where, um, they were talking about sending Ms. Luthi. . . Ms. Luthi was involved in the conversation, Ms. Luthi, sending Ms. Luthi photos that they had of me so that she could publish them, because she would publish things like this on her Blessed Little Trolls and Her Minions page.
JUDGE: Let’s go back to her coming to, around your place of, uh, employment, or your business. And how many times are you aware that she has gone by your business.
NICOLE: I am only aware of two times. But like I said, a lot of this I’m not aware of because they, they do things. . .
BOLUS: I’m going to object. Anything that she’s not aware of.
JUDGE: You’ve got to talk about what you know.
NICOLE: Right. Um,
JUDGE: So two times. .
NICOLE: Two times that I’m aware of.
JUDGE: And do you know roughly when that was?
NICOLE: Not directly because it’s alluded to in her conversations and so I don’t know her dates. I only know she was there because she’s admitted to them either on her Facebook page or podcast.
JUDGE: She’s admitted to what?
NICOLE: She’s admitted to them on her Facebook page and podcast, but
JUDGE: But you don’t know specifically other than she remarked that she had been by your business on two occasions?
JUDGE: That you know of. Two different times.
NICOLE: Other than my children witnessing her driving by the home, the only knowledge I have of her whereabouts are when she posts them on her pages and talks about them on her podcast or whatever. So that’s the only knowledge that I have is what she herself said.
JUDGE: Let me ask you a question. When, uh, you, you all have a few acres right?
NICOLE: Um hum.
JUDGE: Your house is significantly back from the road, is it not?
NICOLE: It’s somewhat back from the road because of the landscape of the land, unless we build – site build something, back on the land, you can’t haul or move anything, so our cabin that we is set back maybe a hundred yards from the road.
JUDGE: A hundred yards?
NICOLE: But it’s up on a hill, so we have view of the road in front of our home
JUDGE: Does the road have a view of your home. . .
JUDGE: . . . is the next question. So there’s a view of your home from the road.
NICOLE: And pictures of that have been posted on Ms. Luthi’s page.
JUDGE: Okay. All right, and then, uh. . .
Has Ms. Luthi ever made any direct statements to you?
NICOLE: To me, no. She’s never spoken to me directly. Well, indirectly, I guess you could say, through her Facebook page.
JUDGE: She’s never spok- Hold on – She’s never spoken directly to you.
Well, I’m. . .
JUDGE: But you said she has commented where?
NICOLE: She makes indirect statements. She calls me the Blessed One and so she’ll make posts on her Facebook page addressed to the Blessed One which would be me and/or my husband. Um, they have all sorts of nicknames for us, but she’s made indirectly
BOLUS: (unclear) when she says “they” if she’s talking about . . .
JUDGE: Are you talking about Ms. Luthi’s
NICOLE: Ms. Luthi
JUDGE: Facebook page?
NICOLE: Correct. On her Facebook page. The people that comment and the people that, she writes and the people comment
JUDGE: Her comments alone are the ones that we’re interested in at this point.
NICOLE: Right. They have, she has several different nicknames, references toward us – Nic Naug – and
JUDGE: Right, and with an understanding that you recognize when she is making a comment toward you, have you seen a written comment that you took as threatening in nature?
NICOLE: Um, there have been, um, posts about, um, my children having a real home, and that, um, and posts about her, um, getting my children to a better place, um, just lots of allusion to where she does not like my lifestyle and she does not agree with the fact that my children were returned, and it seems to be, she has stated on her page that her mission is to protect my children and somehow that’s her, her, um, sole cause, but in turn, all she’s doing is inflicting emotional distress on my family because people will want to – I shouldn’t say – okay, I’ll retract that – because she wants people to help her. She’s said she wants people to help her rectify my home situation. Or her perception of my home life, I should say.
I don’t, I don’t understand what else would motivate her to, to dedicate a Facebook page and to post incessantly on it about me, and to make friends with my, my home and business neighbors other than to stalk and harass me for whatever purpose she has done it for.
BOLUS: (unclear) speculation
NICOLE: That’s not, that’s not normal behavior, in my opinion, and it, it alarms me and it is extremely stressful. (starts crying )
JUDGE: Hold on. Okay. Is there anything else that you want to tell me about these allegations that you want me to hear?
NICOLE: Um, let me look at my notes and make sure that I’ve gotten over everything that I had in my mind.
JUDGE: If there are any documents, you need to show them now.
NICOLE: Okay. Um,
JUDGE: Any other statements at this point, you need to go ahead. . .
NICOLE: Yes. Um, let me find, cause I did have some, like I said, I had, um, a few months ago, back in January, there was an incident with my neighbor and my son and our horse that we have, and as I’ve said, Ms. Luthi is, um, in contact with my neighbors next door, who we have had the incident with, and almost immediately, um I would say within two hours of the incident, I had not posted it on my public page that I have about my family, but [ aside to JOE: Help me find these] Ms. Luthi posted it, um, on her page, something regarding my son and a family affair and I will try to find that.
But she had targeted my 16-year-old son in her post, referencing him, again, indirectly, but if you knew what was going on, you know what the post was about. I’m trying to find it because it’s in my, um, neighbor’s file and not hers.
But, um, I do have some screen shots from that page, where they were talking about my son’s criminal, um, activity which was not even relayed to me until weeks later, um, with the affidavit of the neighbor because the adult male neighbor never mentioned it. Well, it’s not in this one. Until. . . I apologize, like I said, my files got messed up.
JUDGE: Take your time.
NICOLE: It’s just this one (talking to JOE, shuffling endlessly through papers)
But I can play for you this one audio snippet if you would like to hear it.
JUDGE: Can you tell me what it is before you play it?
NICOLE: Yes, in the podcast, Vivian Adams, who just left, they were discussing, discussing me, and she said she had some pictures from the the courtroom
JUDGE: Who is she?
NICOLE: Ms. Adams.
JUDGE: Ms. Adams. The other lady.
NICOLE: Yes, was discussing with Lisa the court date that Lisa
JUDGE: With Ms. Luthi
NICOLE: Yeah, the court date that they had attended to, the one I referred to
JUDGE: January 30
NICOLE: January 30, and they took some photographs and this is them discussing what to do with those photographs
JUDGE: Um, what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna ask you to either set that right up next to the microphone and see if that will help if you’re gonna play it, so that we can hear it.